Confirmed: Visa run crackdown effective from August 12, 2014: Thai Foreign Ministry

[Bernard Flint]

I believe there is, at least there was a non o( others)

This was a 1 year visa issued to people who had a letter of invitation from a Thai .

Not sure if it still exist or issued, but this might be the only choices for those wanting to stay long term but under the retirement age.

Yes ED is still an option but I think they will start testing the skills

The days when getting a Non O for visiting Thai friends have long gone,

You need to be over 50 or married, but even then it isn't that straight forward.

It was abused for years. The bottom line is that many people under 50(non thai) have been working without work permit, and immigration want to stop this.

[jacko45k]

No, you can still apply for a double or triple entry tourist visa, but once it's used up,

you probably wouldn't be issued another one soon after.

That's not what the OP says - it says to be restrictive in back to back visas.

It couldn't be any clearer.

Depends on what they consider a double or triple entry tourist visa to be?

My definition is it's a single visa, that permits you to enter 2 or 3 times.

I would consider it to be two or three visas.

Someone with more knowledge than me can confirm that if you don't re-enter before the allocated date then the visa is cancelled. That tells me that they look at it as two visas too - as you must qualify for each portion.

In saying that, tourist visas are not mentioned in the letter - I wonder if George was given additional info?

I don't think so, it is a single visa in your passport with 1, 2 or 3 permitted entries.

The way you view it the Visa word would be plural to Visas, rather than Entries.

The Visa has a date restriction for the latest permitted entry, and a number of entries limit within that time constraint.

[kiwikeith]

The trash needs to be put out of Thailand, there is more undesirables in Thailand in the last few years than ever.

Mafia and scumbags running money lending schemes as well to desperates who cant show the funds in the bank to renew their visa. Color blind police as well, you cant tell me that 20 African girls standing in Nana area behind a policeman in suhkhomvit RD plying trade have work permits.

There is now to much scum in Thailand and they ruin it for the good people who just want to relax and enjoy the scenery.

If you get the right visa before you leave for Thailand no problems the embassy here in NZ has always been helpful and I've never had a problem only the dubious will continue to ruin it for the good people.

[Kasset Tak]

The fact remains, Thailand has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, quite factually. I believe it's currently at 1%. That being the case, I have to agree that it makes little sense for a the authority to be concentrating so much on the excuse of farangs working illegally in such a time, when there are so many other things to be concerned with. And even though a lot of members here like to say it won't have any effect, this actually will hurt tourism numbers a great deal. That's only logic - there is no seating capacity which is currently filled, with a waiting list. That's what would be required for it not to damage the economy, so that argument doesn't hold water. The truth is, this will hurt the Thai economy.

One thing you don't do if you work here illegal is paying tax. Of course you can have so low salary that you don't need to pay tax, but then you could not get a visa as most "farang" need to earn atleast B 40k a month to be able to obtain a visa. Not like the migrant workers from Laos or Cambodia that come here and work for B 150-> a day!

And how can this hurt tourism, any normal tourist have what a few weeks a year of holiday and the rest of the time they are working back in their home countries.

If you are retired and want to stay longer than you can on a normal tourist visa then get a retirement visa.

If you have a work where you are working from home using your computer then just a news for you, you are still working and you are not a tourist.

And finally if you are married and want to stay with your family then you have your non-O based on marriage.

[ezzra]

All these "new" crackdown are as clear as mud, as many readers there are here that many

different understanding and opinions on what dose it all really means,

frankly, I don't think that even the immigration people knows exactly what is what,
so let's all wait to the day when the real "crackdown" will start and we all going to me

smarter than....

[JDGRUEN]

A Non-Immigrant O type visa is for either retirement or marriage and a number of other categories - that's what the "O" stands for - OTHER.

That kind of visa can only be ISSUED at a Thai consulate or Embassy, meaning outside Thailand.

A Non-Immigrant visa can only be EXTENDED by the Immigration Department inside Thailand, and the TYPE of Non-Immigrant O visa will be defined by the extension category for which you apply and are granted the extension. This is where it becomes a Marriage Visa, or say a Retirement Visa etc.

This kind of visa is completely different from the ones mentioned above, and which are the subject of the letter.tht

Clarification... A Non Imm Multi Entry O Visa is issued for reasons other than retirement or marriage. I have one issued to me and I am not married to anyone nor did I formally apply for a retirement visa with financial proof, etc.

And my O Visa requires Exit and Reentry every 90 days.

Retirement and marriage O visas are more often Extensions of Stay aren't they? Example... I have read on the Thailand Embassy D.C USA website that one can apply for a Non Imm O for retirement in America with money in an American bank, etc. but I believe most people perform the function here in Thailand by applying for an Extension of Stay. Then it becomes an O-A ... correct?

I am not in anyway trying to be argumentative - just providing a clarification and posing a question...

[MrWorldwide]

Guess I am going to be a guinea pig for the new system as I fly in and out of Thailand August 5th to August 14th

I had 3 back to back land border runs...then went ahead and got a double entry tourist visa. The consulate wrote in english on my visa that I must provide proof of income and residency the next time I get a visa. That was enough to tell me I no longer should be getting a tourist visa. I leave several months a year, and only had 3 tourist visas (not back to back) in two years. I did, however, have 3 back to back Visa exempt border runs, previously, to this double entry.

Well, I have a round trip ticket to Kuala Lumpur for mid-July, to see the sights, dine, shop and enjoy 2 days of tourism. I will then re-enter Thailand for sixty days of Tourist delight, on my second entry ( Chiang Mai). I will have in my possession, proof of income and a letter from the Condotel (one month lease). I have a ticket to Manila for Onward travel in sixty days as well.

Twenty one days before my second entry expires, I will apply for conversion of the tourist visa to a 90 day Non Immigrant O...in Bangkok. (I heard this is possible). Then I will do a one year extension.

Does anyone see a possible stumbling block? Or am I doing it right...???

This is where I run the risk of falling into the same trap many of us have already fallen into - crystal-balling and attempting to divine the collective mind of Thai Immigration - but I believe that you are 'doing it right'.

- several days - not hours - outside the Kingdom

- proof of onward travel

- proof of sufficient income

- plans to get a Tourist Visa then apply for the Non-O visa before the August 12 deadline

There have been a slew of 'no way - you're not a tourist - you're obviously working and your days are numbered !' posts in various threads, but if this forum is about finding solutions to visa issues that's not helpful. Given that none of us knows exactly how tough Thai Immigration will be, we are still crystal-balling with several weeks up our collective sleeves to actually do something. I'm going to book two tickets on a flight to Roi Et today, have a look around Mukdahan then head across that wide, brown river : good luck with your trip to KL.

[watso63]

Why are some people upset about this? Where I come from people can't come and go as they please.

Why don't they just get the paperwork done...no problems. But it's all about bending the rules isn't it ??

Thanks bobobo maybe you can get the paperwork sorted for me seems you know so much, I'm 50 in nine months so will be applying for non o and retirement then , I already have sufficient funds in a Thai acc , so perhaps you could sort the relevant visa for me in the mean time ?

I'm not working here just spending money the last nine months on tourist visas until I reach 50. Hopefully it shouldn't be a problem

I timed things right. At 49 years old I got my triple entry tourist visa. Travelled around, decided Thailand was for me. Got my extensions as and when required, converted to a Non O inside Thailand then got my extension to stay for retirement. Sounds like you're doing the same. Good luck. For others, such as married, supporting children etc, why not get the non O, then get a re entry permit as required?

There are plenty of options. My brother is married to a Thai, back in the UK. it was very difficult to get her over there initially, but a few months ago she got British citizenship ie the same full rights as a British born citizen. She just wanted to do it. They are coming to live in Thailand next year as he has decided to retire. Here, it is the opposite.

Edited July 1, 2014 by watso63

[Wat dee]

why tight up the visa rules? it will just make more people overstay their visas..

Just about money. Cambodia makes money from Visaruns not Thailand.

[rumbo1]

There are many people over 50 in Thailand with a retirement visa that have very little funds so it annoys me to hear all these experts harping on about how it won't affect them . I am here on a tourist visa , I arrived on a triple entry , went to Laos got a double entry and recently Hanoi with my Thai gf but would only be issued a single entry.

The thing that annoys me is I have a lot better finances than a lot of people on retirement visas but I'm not 50 for another 9 months so it's possible I will have to leave the country in August when my current visa ends.

Why does it bother you that some people followed the rules and won't be impacted? I'm not saying you have to take glee in their misfortune but it's pretty shortsighted to bet your retirement on a loophole in the Thai immigration law. Hell, it's shortsighted to base your retirement on any Thai law. The people who have gone through the process, done things the right way, and are being rewarded, should be somewhat happy that their faith in the rule of law paid off.

And why are you annoyed that you have to wait another 9 months to be eligible for a retirement visa? It's not like that law changed. Oh, or are you just annoyed that Plan A, take advantage of a loophole in Thai immigration law, isn't viable anymore so you have to do it the way you would likely have to do it in most other countries, and wait?

You obviously missed the point I was trying to make , I know many people that have retirement visas illegally , I.e pay someone approx 15,000 and receive a visa because they have insufficient funds and or income to get one legally.

I on the other hand have been doing every thing legally and just trying to get by till I'm 50 , I don't want to pay 500,000 to get an elite card when I've only got 9 months to wait and also things are changing all the time so could possibly lose a lot of money

[IMA_FARANG]

Shift workers ..... there has always been a legal way to work outside Thailand and return on each shift break to visit your Thai wife and family. It works like this.

Someone who is married to a Thai gets a non O visa outside the country from a Thai consulate or embassy.

Then in country they apply for an marriage extension at their local immigration for one year, the reason .... marriage to a Thai.

That is what people call a "marriage visa".

Yes, it does have financial requirements you must meet. Yes there is paperwork to submit

Now at the same time you get that extension you apply for a multi exit re-entry permit which has a fee of 3800 baht.

Your "marriage visa" has a period of 1 year before it needs to be renewed/extended.

So does that multi exit re-entry visa you just bought.

So, in the event that you do "work outside the country" and return to visit your wife and family regularly, you should have no problem.

Your one year "marriage visa" allows you to return to Thailand on your shift breaks.

The multi exit re-entry permit allows you to do that as many times as necessary during that year that the "marriage visa" is valid. The multi re-entry permit is also good for one year

That's always been the intelligent way to do it, and has always been available to people who work outside of Thailand and are married to a Thai.

Nothing new here.

[Wat dee]

2) Those using back-to-back TR visas can stand easy... for now. If you are out of the country for 2-3 months between visits, I would reckon you are OK.

I would say so too.

The aim of the crackdown seems to be to rid the country of people staying here ALL of the time by using out-in visa exempt entries or just popping over to a local country for a visa and returning straight away.

You are both wrong! They don't care about 2-3 months between visits.

[duanebigsby]

Why are some people upset about this? Where I come from people can't come and go as they please.

Why don't they just get the paperwork done...no problems. But it's all about bending the rules isn't it ??

Thanks bobobo maybe you can get the paperwork sorted for me seems you know so much, I'm 50 in nine months so will be applying for non o and retirement then , I already have sufficient funds in a Thai acc , so perhaps you could sort the relevant visa for me in the mean time ?

I'm not working here just spending money the last nine months on tourist visas until I reach 50. Hopefully it shouldn't be a problem

You obviously knew the rules before you came. Why didn't you just wait the nine months at home?

[bander]

"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs says the crackdown is aimed to prevent visa runners who abuse the visa exemption scheme from working illegally in Thailand."

Does this mean all the border runners work illegally in Thailand?

"In the letter The Foreign Ministry is confirming earlier information that visa runners will be prohibited from entering Thailand as of August 12, 2014."

What if you have tourist visa multiple entry obtained from your home country and don't work in Thailand?

This crackdown is probably just another fart in the wind

[Wat dee]

2) Those using back-to-back TR visas can stand easy... for now. If you are out of the country for 2-3 months between visits, I would reckon you are OK.

I would say so too.

The aim of the crackdown seems to be to rid the country of people staying here ALL of the time by using out-in visa exempt entries or just popping over to a local country for a visa and returning straight away.

Not true!!! 2-3 months in between dont mean s'''t!

[Kasset Tak]

Guess I am going to be a guinea pig for the new system as I fly in and out of Thailand August 5th to August 14th

I had 3 back to back land border runs...then went ahead and got a double entry tourist visa. The consulate wrote in english on my visa that I must provide proof of income and residency the next time I get a visa. That was enough to tell me I no longer should be getting a tourist visa. I leave several months a year, and only had 3 tourist visas (not back to back) in two years. I did, however, have 3 back to back Visa exempt border runs, previously, to this double entry.

Well, I have a round trip ticket to Kuala Lumpur for mid-July, to see the sights, dine, shop and enjoy 2 days of tourism. I will then re-enter Thailand for sixty days of Tourist delight, on my second entry ( Chiang Mai). I will have in my possession, proof of income and a letter from the Condotel (one month lease). I have a ticket to Manila for Onward travel in sixty days as well.

Twenty one days before my second entry expires, I will apply for conversion of the tourist visa to a 90 day Non Immigrant O...in Bangkok. (I heard this is possible). Then I will do a one year extension.

Does anyone see a possible stumbling block? Or am I doing it right...???

You are doing it right. BUT I would stay away from Bangkok immigration atleast from my own experience trying to exchange visa (tourist to non-. After a week trying to satisfy them by obtaining new and more documents I finally got my visa in Laos instead!

[MrWorldwide]

2) Those using back-to-back TR visas can stand easy... for now. If you are out of the country for 2-3 months between visits, I would reckon you are OK.

I would say so too.

The aim of the crackdown seems to be to rid the country of people staying here ALL of the time by using out-in visa exempt entries or just popping over to a local country for a visa and returning straight away.

You are both wrong! They don't care about 2-3 months between visits.

Perhaps not, but it would seem that after August 12 that figure needs to be longer than '2-3 hours'. Even Vientiane or Penang is usually 2 nights in a hotel - the current visa run system in Cambo means I could leave Pattaya in the morning and be back in my apartment that night - leaving and re-entering on the same day is about as blatant as it gets.

[Dee Kwa]

Obviously, if you bought a vehicle and/or signed a lease/purchased a condo...then you should not be thinking about Tourist Visas anymore.

It would be great if Immigration would come out with an "Amnesty" agreement. In other words, a residency card for law abiding, foreigners who have no record of criminal activity and who have good income. Perhaps some references from some upstanding Thai business people as well.

Clearly...I can see a need for an indefinite "Residency Card". I had one for the Philippines for quite some time. No need for annual O Visas and extensions of stays. All other means (Tourist Visas/Visa exempts) are no longer an options...it appears. At best, I can see a lot of nervous people trying to dance the "two-step" while Immigration throws out a series of questions every time you return to Thailand. That would always be a negative.

A nice followup to these Crackdowns would be an announcement of such a residency card. Perhaps just an annual reporting in would also free up Immigration to better deal with overstayers/abusers of Visas ...especially those who are committing crimes or working illegally.

Hope to read something about this in the future....and am hoping for the best

You don't get it do you? The Thai don't want foreigners living in Thailand. Kid yourself all you want, but visa or no visa, you are not 'welcome' to stay long term. And to think that the Thai differentiate between 'good and bad' foreigners is ridiculous. All foreigners are bad.

[JB300]

I lived in Singapore 2005 - 2011 on a tourist visa and was never once questioned traveling by air out or traveling by car to JB for some weekly golf.

Kurt

At the risk of getting off topic, you lived 6 years in Singapore on a tourist visa!!! 1) Wow!!! & 2) Why!!!

But on this occasion I was coming back using the bus around 2:30pm after a night out in JB with just a small backpack & guess I stood out a little (6ft Ang Moh in a bright yellow t-shirt) as I was rushing to the e-gates with just passport in hand.

I did notice on my way out Malaysian Immigration stuck something in my passport & I thought it might be related to this, but they've done the same on a few trips now & I've never been asked again

Maybe I'm just shady looking [emoji12]

[Bernard Flint]

Obviously, if you bought a vehicle and/or signed a lease/purchased a condo...then you should not be thinking about Tourist Visas anymore.

It would be great if Immigration would come out with an "Amnesty" agreement. In other words, a residency card for law abiding, foreigners who have no record of criminal activity and who have good income. Perhaps some references from some upstanding Thai business people as well.

Clearly...I can see a need for an indefinite "Residency Card". I had one for the Philippines for quite some time. No need for annual O Visas and extensions of stays. All other means (Tourist Visas/Visa exempts) are no longer an options...it appears. At best, I can see a lot of nervous people trying to dance the "two-step" while Immigration throws out a series of questions every time you return to Thailand. That would always be a negative.

A nice followup to these Crackdowns would be an announcement of such a residency card. Perhaps just an annual reporting in would also free up Immigration to better deal with overstayers/abusers of Visas ...especially those who are committing crimes or working illegally.

Hope to read something about this in the future....and am hoping for the best

You don't get it do you? The Thai don't want foreigners living in Thailand. Kid yourself all you want, but visa or no visa, you are not 'welcome' to stay long term. And to think that the Thai differentiate between 'good and bad' foreigners is ridiculous. All foreigners are bad.

You are talking like it affects you???

A stupid statement. Thailand do not want non thais abusing the system, ED visas will be next,that will be the end of the under 50 illegal workers,many many of them

[Dee Kwa]

Obviously, if you bought a vehicle and/or signed a lease/purchased a condo...then you should not be thinking about Tourist Visas anymore.

It would be great if Immigration would come out with an "Amnesty" agreement. In other words, a residency card for law abiding, foreigners who have no record of criminal activity and who have good income. Perhaps some references from some upstanding Thai business people as well.

Clearly...I can see a need for an indefinite "Residency Card". I had one for the Philippines for quite some time. No need for annual O Visas and extensions of stays. All other means (Tourist Visas/Visa exempts) are no longer an options...it appears. At best, I can see a lot of nervous people trying to dance the "two-step" while Immigration throws out a series of questions every time you return to Thailand. That would always be a negative.

A nice followup to these Crackdowns would be an announcement of such a residency card. Perhaps just an annual reporting in would also free up Immigration to better deal with overstayers/abusers of Visas ...especially those who are committing crimes or working illegally.

Hope to read something about this in the future....and am hoping for the best

You don't get it do you? The Thai don't want foreigners living in Thailand. Kid yourself all you want, but visa or no visa, you are not 'welcome' to stay long term. And to think that the Thai differentiate between 'good and bad' foreigners is ridiculous. All foreigners are bad.

You are talking like it affects you???

A stupid statement. Thailand do not want non thais abusing the system, ED visas will be next,that will be the end of the under 50 illegal workers,many many of them

It certainly doesn't affect me at the moment. I work a 28/28 rotatation so rarely have an issue of being in the country over the 30 day stamp. However I'm married to a Thai, and sometimes for one reason or another stay over the 30 days. I will get a non 'o' multi next month from Savanakhet for this very reason.

[phuketrichard]

why is all the discussion here;

anyone who has been in Thailand knows EXACTLY who they are targeting and who a "visa runner" is.

no need for all these questions.

They know if ur living /possible working in Thailand.

They are not stupid

Edited July 1, 2014 by phuketrichard

[chrisinth]

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For example - Joe arrives in Thailand on a tourist visa for 30 days, visits immigration and extends for another 60 days since he is visiting his spouse and children. At the end of this period, Joe must leave Thailand by air to a neighbouring country - and then returning the next day, would then re-enter Thailand on another 30 day tourist visa. Thus - Joe begins the cycle again...

Why even have a stay limit if this is allowed? Just to screw 'Joe' around?

He'll be told to book the next flight out and not try again for x months. In fact once it happens often enough and airlines get sick of whinging 'Joes' asking for refunds they'll probably check their passports and tell them not to bother trying a re-entry.

There's certainly nothing wrong with a Joe having a spousal visa and visiting his wife and children ( who are Thai) but the limit imposed is ludicrous. I have been married for 12 years and have 4 children by the same wife and Im still stuck in this stupid cycle because I don't have a business based in Thailand. My business is a very successful one in the UK, but I choose to live here. Im just trying to clearly work out if my cycle of travel and visa extension will be affected by this new tightening of the rules.

What is the ludicrous limit imposed on a spousal visa? If you have a successful company in UK, what is the problem with showing an income of 40,000 baht a month? You self admittedly state that you prefer to live here, what do you live on while you are here?

Joe should be applying for a non-O visa instead of relying on visa exempt stamps in his passport if the nature of his visit is to visit wife and children.

This normally gets rid of the need to complain about being hard done by..........................

[Bernard Flint]

Obviously, if you bought a vehicle and/or signed a lease/purchased a condo...then you should not be thinking about Tourist Visas anymore.

It would be great if Immigration would come out with an "Amnesty" agreement. In other words, a residency card for law abiding, foreigners who have no record of criminal activity and who have good income. Perhaps some references from some upstanding Thai business people as well.

Clearly...I can see a need for an indefinite "Residency Card". I had one for the Philippines for quite some time. No need for annual O Visas and extensions of stays. All other means (Tourist Visas/Visa exempts) are no longer an options...it appears. At best, I can see a lot of nervous people trying to dance the "two-step" while Immigration throws out a series of questions every time you return to Thailand. That would always be a negative.

A nice followup to these Crackdowns would be an announcement of such a residency card. Perhaps just an annual reporting in would also free up Immigration to better deal with overstayers/abusers of Visas ...especially those who are committing crimes or working illegally.

Hope to read something about this in the future....and am hoping for the best

You don't get it do you? The Thai don't want foreigners living in Thailand. Kid yourself all you want, but visa or no visa, you are not 'welcome' to stay long term. And to think that the Thai differentiate between 'good and bad' foreigners is ridiculous. All foreigners are bad.

You are talking like it affects you???

A stupid statement. Thailand do not want non thais abusing the system, ED visas will be next,that will be the end of the under 50 illegal workers,many many of them

It certainly doesn't affect me at the moment. I work a 28/28 rotatation so rarely have an issue of being in the country over the 30 day stamp. However I'm married to a Thai, and sometimes for one reason or another stay over the 30 days. I will get a non 'o' multi next month from Savanakhet for this very reason.

Good man, it is so easy to comply to immigration requirements, no hassle in the slightest, good luck

[LukKrueng]

Can any please explain - or point me in the direction of a relevant thread, that would perhaps shed some light or clarify how this might affect those visiting spouses ( and not working) in Thailand?

For example - Joe arrives in Thailand on a tourist visa for 30 days, visits immigration and extends for another 60 days since he is visiting his spouse and children. At the end of this period, Joe must leave Thailand by air to a neighbouring country - and then returning the next day, would then re-enter Thailand on another 30 day tourist visa. Thus - Joe begins the cycle again... and possibly again - unless he returns to his homeland for a period of time for whatever reason. Under these new rules, will Joe be adversely affected?

I am not a visa expert, but as far as I know a tourist visa if good for 60 days stay and can be extended for another 30. On the other hand a visa exempt is for 30 days (at airports) and can be extended for another 10 days or so.

Now - as for Joe "visiting" his spouse. What is VISITING??? Coming and staying indefinitely? According to

dictionary.com:

vis·it [viz-it] Show IPA

verb (used with object)

1.

to go to and stay with (a person or family) or at (a place) for a short time for reasons of sociability,politeness,

business, curiosity, etc.: to visit a friend; to visit clients; to visit Paris.

2.

to stay with as a guest.

If Joe wants to LIVE in Thailand, he better go get the appropriate visa - and there are many ways of getting

the correct visa and staying here legally!!

and for the other posters who ask why do the authorities go after tourists, especially now with tourism so low - come on, we all know they are not after tourists and that you are not REALLY tourists. You live here illegally and its time you get your papers in order or just go elsewhere!!

tour·ist [toor-ist] Show IPA

noun

1.

a person who is traveling, especially for pleasure.

[BudRight]

The fact is these people are doing nothing illegal, may well have Thai partners (not yet married but certainly reason enough to want to stay in the country) and are contributing to the country financially. Basically they're retired but are not yet 50 years of age. Very simple.

Personally I think there should be a proof of finances measure put in place, no different to the requirements for other visas. They certainly shouldn't be discriminated against just because they're not married, don't own a business, don't want / need to study, and are (fortunate enough to be) under 50.

You mean nothing illegal other than signing a government document saying that the purpose of their stay in Thailand is for tourism purposes even when their intent is to live in Thailand? Normally, we call that perjury.

I hate to break this to you but nobody cares what you think the laws should be. They are what they are. Live within the laws or there's a chance something like this could happen and your life may be completely upended with little or no recourse on your part. Pretty simple concept to understand once you grasp the fact that the Thai government could give a damn about a few expats.

If they actually cared what we think or how much we contribute to the Thai economy, there would be a clear path to permanent residency, the right to land ownership, etc, etc. The fact that none of these things exist should pretty much indicate to you how much the Thai government cares about your opinions.

Then why the hell should anyone of us give a damn about the Thai system? We should endeavor to exploit it to the hilt, not worship the thing that doesn't care if we live or die.

You can't have it both ways - either you participate in the system and the system participates in you or live by your wits and exploit what you can. What you're suggesting is to be subject to a system that hates you, provides no rights and doesn't give a damn about your opinion. That's no way to live!

And before any of you start with the 'why do you think Thailand owes you something,' I'm not saying that.

What I am saying is that if they owe me nothing then I owe them nothing in turn. Let Thailand prosper or sink to the center of the Earth - if I'm not human to them then they can rot.

Edited July 1, 2014 by BudRight

[nicolas18]

I find it difficult to grasp the stupidity and hypocrisy of this. People working illegally! These people do not get tourist visas, rather they slide across the border, after, allegedly, paying the cops, and then head to Bangkok and work in the restaurant behind the scenes, or on fishing boats, or wherever. How many farang work illegally in Thailand? Damm few, and the work they do is not something that competes with Thais.

I hope you're joking.

On a totally unrelated note, I'd like to point something out: the only reason most people assumed that this rule would only target people who did a same-day visa rule is because it was originally announced that immigration officers at border checkpoints would write "I/O" in the passport of people who were denied entry. Some members extrapolated from that "I/O" thing and said "Ah ha! That's just for border runs!"

But, from the beginning, it was quite clear from the official instructions released by the Ministry of Immigration that this would target people with multiple back-to-back visa exemptions or tourist visas, regardless of how much time there is between the 2 exemptions or the 2 visas.

[renaissanc]

Can any please explain - or point me in the direction of a relevant thread, that would perhaps shed some light or clarify how this might affect those visiting spouses ( and not working) in Thailand?

For example - Joe arrives in Thailand on a tourist visa for 30 days, visits immigration and extends for another 60 days since he is visiting his spouse and children. At the end of this period, Joe must leave Thailand by air to a neighbouring country - and then returning the next day, would then re-enter Thailand on another 30 day tourist visa. Thus - Joe begins the cycle again... and possibly again - unless he returns to his homeland for a period of time for whatever reason. Under these new rules, will Joe be adversely affected?

Firstly, if Joe has a Thai spouse and children in Thailand, he can get a Non-Immigrant visa for one year, so the changes wouldn't apply to him. But if he chose not to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa for some strange reason, and wanted to make his life harder, then he will be affected by the changes; unless of course he shows proof that he has a Thai wife and children in the country, and has a letter from his wife too perhaps. Then maybe the Immigration officials will be lenient. But it sounds risky to me to go down that path.

All Joe would have to do is to apply for a Re-entry visa when he goes back to his country after each visit. Then his Non-Immigrant visa would not expire each time he leave Thailand.

Immigration is trying to stop people working illegally in Thailand. If he can show that he's not doing that, then there is a good chance that he'll be allowed in again and again. But surely, the officials will tell him to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa anyway.

[BudRight]

I find it difficult to grasp the stupidity and hypocrisy of this. People working illegally! These people do not get tourist visas, rather they slide across the border, after, allegedly, paying the cops, and then head to Bangkok and work in the restaurant behind the scenes, or on fishing boats, or wherever. How many farang work illegally in Thailand? Damm few, and the work they do is not something that competes with Thais.

I hope you're joking.

On a totally unrelated note, I'd like to point something out: the only reason most people assumed that this rule would only target people who did a same-day visa rule is because it was originally announced that immigration officers at border checkpoints would write "I/O" in the passport of people who were denied entry. Some members extrapolated from that "I/O" thing and said "Ah ha! That's just for border runs!"

But, from the beginning, it was quite clear from the official instructions released by the Ministry of Immigration that this would target people with multiple back-to-back visa exemptions or tourist visas, regardless of how much time there is between the 2 exemptions or the 2 visas.

That can't be right. Otherwise they'll be turning away anyone who visits Thailand twice on the same passport.

[iphad]

I have lived ... I mean I was a tourist in Thailand for the last 2 1/2 years ...doing border runs..everything from 2 month double tourist visa entry to 14 day ones.

Then on my last visit to Vientiane.... Immigration wrote on my 2 month double entry that it was the last one unless I provided proof of income & where I'm staying.

I think they can look at my passport & see that I'm not a tourist.

So not unreasonable for them to tell me I have to get my papers in order.