Scores of foreigners refused entry to Thailand at Malaysian border

[Thai at Heart]

If a married bloke needs 400k, how much does a tourist? At the moment there is no new "way" so, one can only conclude that they want to remove a certain type of tourist

Yes, they want to remove people that are obviously not tourists from using tourist visas and visa exemptions.

It has been explained by Immigration and on TV ad nauseum.

You want to stay long term, get a long term visa.

If you can't qualify for that visa, Thailand doesn't want you.

I am out and long gone. It just does seem odd that they don't want tourists to stay long term who are unmarried and under 50.

That is quite a large pot of people. Obviously not tourists is a very broad statement. There are loads of people who like to stay for 6 months coming in and out of the country as back packers.

It's not my issue. I always thought that the 180 days in a year policy was still in effect.

What changed.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Tatsujin]

I think there will be a lot of people with new passports on the way

If they get it while in Thailand, won't they have to transfer the current visa status on to the first page?

Which would kind of defeat the purpose, and also people are being refused entry with their first (double-entry) tourist visa.

Getting a proper visa/extension or moving to another country would probably be better.

No, they are not (currently) causing problems for genuine tourists using a tourist visa . . . the ONLY reports I have seen are that they have only stopped/refused entry to those non-tourists that have multiple back-to-back tourist visa's and who are utilising the out-in visa run at land borders on the same day, i.e. people who are NOT tourists and who cannot prove that they ARE tourists.

These are not "new" rules, they are existing rules that are now being enforced. Whatever people used to do in the past, and how authorities turned a blind eye to it before is completely irrelevant, we have to deal with what is, now, not what we want it to be.

In our own home countries, would they allow ANY "tourist" multiple repeat entries using a visa that is incorrect for that purpose? I think not. They would do as Thailand is now saying . . . get the correct visa for your intended purpose.

[lostmebike]

What is amazing (not unsurprising) is nobody has said you must stay out of the country XXXX days / weeks / months before we will consider to allow you back in again.

Meanwhile over at TAT, the spin machine has thrown a belt and they are looking for a new part.

That's right. TAT are expecting record numbers in 2015 ... just don't stay longer than your entry visa!

[KarenBravo]

Just read an interesting article on the news source that cannot be named that is Phuket based.

Spells out that genuine tourists and oil-workers are welcome and what visas they should get.

[stevenl]

If a married bloke needs 400k, how much does a tourist? At the moment there is no new "way" so, one can only conclude that they want to remove a certain type of tourist

Yes, they want to remove people that are obviously not tourists from using tourist visas and visa exemptions.

It has been explained by Immigration and on TV ad nauseum.

You want to stay long term, get a long term visa.

If you can't qualify for that visa, Thailand doesn't want you.

I am out and long gone. It just does seem odd that they don't want tourists to stay long term who are unmarried and under 50.

That is quite a large pot of people. Obviously not tourists is a very broad statement. There are loads of people who like to stay for 6 months coming in and out of the country as back packers.

It's not my issue. I always thought that the 180 days in a year policy was still in effect.

What changed.

They do want tourists to stay long term here, they just don't want people pretending to be tourists to stay long term here.

[smurph]

A round-up of recent developments on the tourist visa front here.... http://asiancorrespondent.com/124798/visa-enforcement-tightens-for-tourists-and-expats-in-thailand/

Looks like a lot of people running out of options fast.

[emilymat]

You get visa runners and visa runners, at present everyone is handled the same. You get the runners at the lower end of the scale that stay in Thailand to survive financialy, you get runners that work here illegaly and compete with Thai's for jobs, you get runners that work here illegaly but do jobs that don't compete with Thai's for jobs (running websites in their home countries etc.), you get runners that is or was involved in crimminal activities and you get runners that stay in Thailand during the winter season (3 to 6 months of the year) to escape the cold in their home countries and because they like Thailand. The new rules will chase away the good and the bad, which I think is a result of the lack of understanding by authorities of the complexity of their own country's tourism. Under the present laws what they are doing is correct, but the question is if the laws are correct. Why not start a 6 month visa that cost B 10 000 per person (just an example) and visa applicants must supply proof of funds and medical cover. Why not have a foreign work visa that allows for people in the IT business to stay in Thailand but do work back in their home countries? These 2 groups are the bigger spenders and should be accommodated. I played around with some numbers, let say there are 200 000 such "tourists" in the country at any given time and they spend on average B 100 000 per month, thats B 240 bn per year that could be lost for the economy. With the present downturn in tourism and the economy I think that the timing of this clampdown is ill advised. Would it not have been better to get rid of the unwanted elements while retaining the wanted tourists?

You raise some good points, particularly in relation to the 'types' of visa runners. I'm here on retirement visa and have never done a 'run'- simply because of a feeling of insecurity such a system involves, not least as well a complete day wasted, rather than 3 minutes at Pattaya Immigration for the 90 day pass. However, I have a friend in the UK whom I have e mailed. He did regular runs up at Nong Khai - has a wife and house near there. He had heard nothing about this clampdown and is due back in September.

My main point though is the reason. I think it is another example of keeping the people 'happy'. Bearing in mind that such a move will be very popular with thousands of Thai's for a variety of reasons - which I do not wish to list. Equally of course, the 'visa run' industry must be having heart attacks.

[AYJAYDEE]

Just read an interesting article on the news source that cannot be named that is Phuket based.

Spells out that genuine tourists and oil-workers are welcome and what visas they should get.

did it provide a definition of "genuine"??

[KarenBravo]

Just read an interesting article on the news source that cannot be named that is Phuket based.

Spells out that genuine tourists and oil-workers are welcome and what visas they should get.

did it provide a definition of "genuine"??

No, not explicitly, but, it did say you could stay for six months, but, it didn't say what kind of visa.

Sorry, not allowed to post a link to the article.

[AYJAYDEE]

Just read an interesting article on the news source that cannot be named that is Phuket based.

Spells out that genuine tourists and oil-workers are welcome and what visas they should get.

did it provide a definition of "genuine"??

No, not explicitly, but, it did say you could stay for six months, but, it didn't say what kind of visa.

Sorry, not allowed to post a link to the article.

then PM it to me

[KarenBravo]

Done.

[bkkjames]

A round-up of recent developments on the tourist visa front here.... http://asiancorrespondent.com/124798/visa-enforcement-tightens-for-tourists-and-expats-in-thailand/

Looks like a lot of people running out of options fast.

Not a single bit of new info in that which has not been written about here

A good plug for George though ^^

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ilocos]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

true story. At sadao I showed him my philippino tourist identity card and on this basis I was allowed. 8 months out of thailand but many tourist visas in passport

[ilocos]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

When I first came to Thailand I planned on staying here less than a month, but things changed and I stayed for 13 months. I never worked and I did 12 border runs back to back to stay. First Samui to Malaysia and then Bangkok to Cambodia. I never felt like anything other than a tourist on an extended holiday and had money as I was planning to go to other countries to travel when I got bored of Thailand.

Now my situation then may or may not be common or rare, but without it I wouldn't be celebrating 10 years of marriage and have a beautiful son.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I feel that Thailand doesn't help itself. Most want to be legal, but there is no clarity and offers that fit people.

Maybe Thailand doesn't want the traveller type like I was anymore, but in this day and age I would think a lot of graduates see Thailand as a holiday / extended break once they have finished studying. Thailand can be a wonderful country than I and many others visited and decided to stay in. It will be a shame if that option is not open to others in the future.

very well put. A deeper intelligence and empathy is a very rare thing. You have a very lucid view of the world with tenderness. Edited July 16, 2014 by ilocos

[rebelplatoon]

No matter how you look at it, if they have a visa, they should be allowed in. If the visa departments at Consulates and Embassies would just apply the rules, they can sort it out. It should be next to impossible to be refused (unless you're a known criminal, or whatever). It's not good for the tourists, it'll give them a sense of insecurity.

PLUS:

GIVE A LITTLE MAN SOME POWER AND HE'LL ABUSE IT!

[AYJAYDEE]

No matter how you look at it, if they have a visa, they should be allowed in. If the visa departments at Consulates and Embassies would just apply the rules, they can sort it out. It should be next to impossible to be refused (unless you're a known criminal, or whatever). It's not good for the tourists, it'll give them a sense of insecurity.

PLUS:

GIVE A LITTLE MAN SOME POWER AND HE'LL ABUSE IT!

how would an embassy influence the 30 day visa exemption?

[mjj]

Well, Thailand used to. Without getting in to what country allows what, I can't see a reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to be a tourist for an extended time. I have no idea what other countries do, but if someone wants to holiday, have fun and spend money, what is the problem?

Yes, they used to because they weren't enforcing the existing rules.

How many genuine tourists want to stay for a year and spend money? One in a thousand?

If you create a way for that genuine tourist to stay, a hundred more will abuse it.

I'm not going to try to guess figures, but living on Samui, quite a few. Some are on tourist visas, some on Ed visas, but they are long term stayers. At the moment there doesn't seem to be an option for them, so it appears that they have to make plans to leave. And yes, they are big spenders - kids in International school, bought cars, etc.

I agree that they are exploiting loop holes, but these loop holes were created by the Thai administration because they do not have any other way of doing it and they allowed it. Also, and while it is not a valid reason to abuse a system, Thailand's rules are not as stable and cut n dry that they tend to be in farang land, which leads to this situation.

Thailand can do whatever it wants regarding visas and I'm not going to complain, but on the flip side, Thailand should be aware that if it wants to really be treated with the same respect that Farangland is, it should start acting accordingly.

[enuff said]

No matter how you look at it, if they have a visa, they should be allowed in. If the visa departments at Consulates and Embassies would just apply the rules, they can sort it out. It should be next to impossible to be refused (unless you're a known criminal, or whatever). It's not good for the tourists, it'll give them a sense of insecurity.

PLUS:

GIVE A LITTLE MAN SOME POWER AND HE'LL ABUSE IT!

You are TOTALLY wrong. In the real world it is the officer at the border who has the final say. Just check your own country. I dare you.

MINUS:

GIVE A LITTLE MAN A COMPUTER AND HE'LL POST STUFF HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A MILLION OTHER POSTS TO THE CONTRARY.

'nuff said

~

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

Whatever!

Of course there is a very large contingent of visarunners.

But many of them are NOT working.

This is another sign that Thailand is getiing on the wrong track.

If it gets known that Thai visa's are not worth the money you pay for it, this will have a negative effect on "real" tourists.

Besides this bad effect, what about the loss of capital, loss of jobs?

I know a guy, 42, swimming in his money....well ok, wading, a visa runner.

Spends around 2-3 million baht a year.

He will probably not get a visa any more.

Byebye!

Exactly, Hansnl! many of us have money with us from abroad and still relatively young. We are using our money from the West here in Thailand. Very good for the Thai economy. Thai politicians are not very intelligent. This new law clearly shows that.

[kaobang]

i wonder how many thais will loose their jobs

[KarenBravo]

i wonder how many thais will loose their jobs

None, but some might lose their jobs.

[imjustagirl]

I just set up my company so I'm lucky to have just missed this... but I was told something odd by the lawyer....i was told that if I wanted a work permit I had to apply in Singapore or Australia! Given I am British and currently in London this is extremely inconvenient. They told me that practically all embassies except these two would refuse a work permit visa for a new company!

So to me it would appear that even getting everything in order, setting up a business - its still tough getting a visa..... or is this lawyer having me on. It would have avoided a trip to Singapore next month just to get a visa I should have been able to get in UK.

It seems ridiculous, you can set up a company but you are not allowed to work in your own company until its established...say what????? By the way this is a big Thai firm that advertises on here..... anyone got experience of this?

[kaobang]

i wonder how many thais will loose their jobs

None, but some might lose their jobs.

you are too confident.

the hospitality industry in thailand will suffer soon

let me remind you that few months ago the representatives of some thai hospitality associations were not too happy

Edited July 16, 2014 by kaobang

[KarenBravo]

i wonder how many thais will loose their jobs

None, but some might lose their jobs.

you are too confident.

the hospitality industry in thailand will suffer soon

let me remind you that few months ago the representatives of some thai hospitality associations were not too happy

What's that loud whooshing noise that just went over your head?

PS.

You do know that the unemployment rate is only 0.6% in Thailand, right?

Edited July 16, 2014 by KarenBravo

[JLCrab]

Thai politicians are not very intelligent. They could become more intelligent if they would only listen to the wealthy, young, free-spending Western expats, I guess.

[Mudcrab]

I just set up my company so I'm lucky to have just missed this... but I was told something odd by the lawyer....i was told that if I wanted a work permit I had to apply in Singapore or Australia! Given I am British and currently in London this is extremely inconvenient. They told me that practically all embassies except these two would refuse a work permit visa for a new company!

So to me it would appear that even getting everything in order, setting up a business - its still tough getting a visa..... or is this lawyer having me on. It would have avoided a trip to Singapore next month just to get a visa I should have been able to get in UK.

It seems ridiculous, you can set up a company but you are not allowed to work in your own company until its established...say what????? By the way this is a big Thai firm that advertises on here..... anyone got experience of this?

The visa and the work permit are two different things totally and handled by two different Government departments. You need to recheck what was said or find another lawyer.

[PS2]

i wonder how many thais will loose their jobs

None, but some might lose their jobs.

you are too confident.

the hospitality industry in thailand will suffer soon

let me remind you that few months ago the representatives of some thai hospitality associations were not too happy

The minibus associations?

The timeshare sellers associations?

Edited July 16, 2014 by PS2

[kaobang]

i wonder how many thais will loose their jobs

None, but some might lose their jobs.

you are too confident.

the hospitality industry in thailand will suffer soon

let me remind you that few months ago the representatives of some thai hospitality associations were not too happy

What's that loud whooshing noise that just went over your head?

PS.

You do know that the unemployment rate is only 0.6% in Thailand, right?

lol it does not look like that

with all this employment around,why so many girls need to go to work in the sex industry and leave their families?

not to mention the "ping pong show" guys etc etc

Edited July 16, 2014 by kaobang

[stevenl]

I'm not going to try to guess figures, but living on Samui, quite a few. Some are on tourist visas, some on Ed visas, but they are long term stayers. At the moment there doesn't seem to be an option for them, so it appears that they have to make plans to leave. And yes, they are big spenders - kids in International school, bought cars, etc.

The question was about genuine tourists. How many genuine tourists have kids in international school, own cars, etc.?

[imjustagirl]

I just set up my company so I'm lucky to have just missed this... but I was told something odd by the lawyer....i was told that if I wanted a work permit I had to apply in Singapore or Australia! Given I am British and currently in London this is extremely inconvenient. They told me that practically all embassies except these two would refuse a work permit visa for a new company!

So to me it would appear that even getting everything in order, setting up a business - its still tough getting a visa..... or is this lawyer having me on. It would have avoided a trip to Singapore next month just to get a visa I should have been able to get in UK.

It seems ridiculous, you can set up a company but you are not allowed to work in your own company until its established...say what????? By the way this is a big Thai firm that advertises on here..... anyone got experience of this?

The visa and the work permit are two different things totally and handled by two different Government departments. You need to recheck what was said or find another lawyer.

they told me to get the non-o based on a new company would be impossible in uk, and elsewhere. I know you get a visa first with docs of company to then apply for work permit in thailand...so apparently embassies not issuing non o visas for future wp applications for new companies, must be established... seems nuts to me. Thailand doesn't want us, or our money it seems....

Here is the email

Hi xxxxxx

I have spoken with our Visa team and they have informed me that they no longer recommend Non Immigrant Visa applications in the UK especially for newly formed Companies.

All applications in the UK are now re-routed to the Thai Embassy in London, which have proven to be stricter than Thai Consulates elsewhere. The main stumbling block here though is the requirement of the WP3 documnet which is a pre Work Permit confirmation. This document is only available if the company is already registered on the social security system. (The 4 Thai employees already registered).

I believe we have 2 options here:

1. Upon your departure from the UK, you travel to either Singapore or Australia (Adelaide or Melbourne) to apply at the Thai Consulates there. These consulates do not have this WP3 requirement and are much more lenient in handing out the Visa. You then travel into Thailand where we move on to the Work Permit Application.
2. You acquire a 90 day Tourist Visa from the Thai Embassy in London. We then deal with the conversion to the Non immigrant (90 days) as well as the subsequent 1 year extensions in country. Please however note that this option is not recommended for newly formed companies, as its easier to acquire the Visa at the Consulate than it is at the Immigration department in Thailand as well.

I completely understand that option 1 above may cause inconvenience with regards to both cost and travel plans. Please however note that it remains the safest and most efficient way to acquire the Non Immigrant Business Visa without any complication.

Edited July 16, 2014 by imjustagirl