MH17: Malaysia Airlines Plane Shot Down Near Ukraine Border

[MJP]

Lufthansa have just announced they will stop flying over this area. I guess others will follow. Shame they didn't all do this sooner.

Sent from my C6902 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I'm staggered any airline was even going near this area.

[Liquorice]

IN RELATED NEWS

A Ukrainian security spokesman has accused Russia's air force of shooting down one of its jets while it was on a mission over Ukrainian territory

BBC: -- Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council, said an Su-25 ground attack plane was downed on Wednesday evening.

Russia's defence ministry called the accusation "absurd", Russian state media reported.

Rebels in eastern Ukraine say they shot down two Su-25 jets on Wednesday.

Ukraine also alleges rockets were fired at its forces from Russian territory.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko ordered his foreign ministry to react officially after reports that Grad rockets were fired at Ukrainian forces in Luhansk region, from over the border near the Russian village of Gukovo.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has denounced a new round of US sanctions against his country, saying they will damage relations and hurt businesses from both countries.

He said the sanctions were driving bilateral relations towards a "dead end".

As shares in Russian interests hit by the sanctions fell sharply, markets also fell by more than 2.5%.

'Pilot ejected'

Mr Lysenko said the Su-25 had been hit at about 19:00 (16:00 GMT). Its pilot managed to eject and was rescued by Ukrainian forces, he said.

It was "yet another act of provocation... carried out by Russia", Ukrainian newspaper Ukrayinska Pravda quoted him as saying.

Ukrainian government troops have been battling pro-Russia rebels in the east

Ukraine's defence ministry said: "It is likely that [the hit] was carried out by air-to-air rockets from the Russian air force which were patrolling the border in a pair."

It added that a second jet had been hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but that pilot was also unscathed and managed to land his plane safely, AP news agency reported.

Amateur video posted on Wednesday is said to show a plane being hit over Ukraine's eastern region of Luhansk.

A Russian spokesman said Ukraine's claims were "absurd, just like all the previous accusations from Kiev's leadership against Russia's defence ministry", RIA news agency reported.

Rebel commander Igor "Strelkov" Girkin said two Su-25 planes had been downed during fighting at the Marinivka border crossing.

Analysis: Daniel Sandford, BBC News, Moscow

If Russia has indeed shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet over Ukrainian territory, it would be a significant escalation of this conflict, showing the Russian military openly engaging Kiev's forces. It will be made all the worse if Russia has fired Grad rockets at Ukrainian troops - or allowed the separatists to fire them from Russian territory.

Until now the deaths and destruction directly attributable to Russian soldiers and airmen have been small. Russia annexed Crimea with barely any shots being fired. All the serious fighting in eastern Ukraine has been between forces loyal to Kiev and separatist forces who claim not to be backed by the Kremlin (although they are clearly getting a lot of support from some senior people in the Russian elite.)

But grabbing territory without bloodshed as happened in Crimea and supporting a rebellion as has happened in eastern Ukraine are - diplomatically at least - very different to shooting down jets and raining rockets on the heads of soldiers in their own country.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28345039

--

Well worth a read about the accusations of jets being shot down earlier.

Note the comments of one the rebel leaders in the Donetsk region.

Commercial airlines are seriously going to have to change flight paths if a repeat of this incident is to be avoided.

What a total waste of innocent lives.

[uptheos]

Very sad.....one minute enjoying yourself the next gone, families distraught.

[mrtoad]

This is just so sad, and so soon after. MH370. I very much doubt MAS will survive this disaster. Thoughts go out to the relatives who have lost their loved ones.

[AhFarangJa]

Very sad.....one minute enjoying yourself the next gone, families distraught.

+1

as you say, gone in an instant, yet for the families it is just the beginning, May they find the strength to get through this, and R.I.P. to all on board.

[Pattszero]

This is just so sad, and so soon after. MH370. I very much doubt MAS will survive this disaster. Thoughts go out to the relatives who have lost their loved ones.

Maybe I'm a weirdo but I would seek out a flight with this company now as an act of solidarity.

MH370 is a mystery of our times.

If this aircraft was shot down, we should offer all support to Malaysian Airlines.

[mrtoad]

This is just so sad, and so soon after. MH370. I very much doubt MAS will survive this disaster. Thoughts go out to the relatives who have lost their loved ones.

Maybe I'm a weirdo but I would seek out a flight with this company now as an act of solidarity.

MH370 is a mystery of our times.

If this aircraft was shot down, we should offer all support to Malaysian Airlines.

To be honest there is nothing wrong with MAS, but Asians in particular are very superstitious. Might be wrong, but a lot of people will think they are jinxed.

All in all though another tragedy.

[Old Croc]

I wonder if the black boxes, which should indicate the definite guilt of the Russians, or their separatist stooges, will mysteriously be unable to be found.

The separatists are the first on the scene.

[george]

MH17 was carrying mostly Malaysians but also 20 dutch, 23 US Citizens and other nationalities

[Thighlander]

another bad day for aviation. RIP.

[ClutchClark]

I wonder if the black boxes, which should indicate the definite guilt of the Russians, or their separatist stooges, will mysteriously be unable to be found.

The separatists are the first on the scene.

I don't understand how a black box could identify the source of an explosion?

It would seem that ground based radar or satellite imagery could best identify the origin of the missile (assuming it was a missile).

Obviously, witness statements on the ground would be quite useful IF they could be substantiated.

Meanwhile, the usual players will just point fingers at their enemies in an attempt to weaken their public opinion.

Edited July 17, 2014 by ClutchClark

[MJP]

Ukraine President blaming it on terrorism.

[Hawkup2000]

What an tragedy. Breaks my heart.

[Old Croc]

I wonder if the black boxes, which should indicate the definite guilt of the Russians, or their separatist stooges, will mysteriously be unable to be found.

The separatists are the first on the scene.

I don't understand how a black box could identify the source of an explosion?

It would seem that ground based radar or satellite imagery could best identify the origin of the missile (assuming it was a missile).

Obviously, witness statements on the ground would be quite useful IF they could be substantiated.

Meanwhile, the usual players will just point fingers at their enemies in an attempt to weaken their public opinion.

The voice recordings of the pilots. could tell the story

[Old Croc]

MH17 was carrying mostly Malaysians but also 20 dutch, 23 US Citizens and other nationalities

I see there was a Bali travel pamphlet found in the wreckage. I wonder if any of the unfortunate souls were on their way to Thailand?

[george]

Malaysia Airlines plane MH17

MOSCOW — Malaysia Airlines said Thursday that it lost contact with an airliner that was flying in Ukrainian airspace, raising fears that the plane may have been shot down over eastern Ukraine.

“We lost contact with Flight MH17 in Ukraine,” said Najmuddin Abdullah, who works in Malaysia Airlines’ press office.

An adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister wrote on Facebook that a Buk antiaircraft missile system shot down the plane over the village of Torez, about 25 miles east of the city of Donetsk and within territory held by pro-Russian separatist rebels.

The plane was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew members, Anton Herashenko, the Interior Ministry adviser, wrote on his Facebook page, without revealing how he knew the information. He blamed the rebels for the attack.

An adviser to Ukraine's interior minister says a Malaysian passenger plane carrying 295 people has been shot down over a town in the east of the country. (AP)

Rebel spokesmen denied responsibility, shifting blame to Ukrainian government forces. The Ukrainian government said it had nothing to do with downing the plane.

“We do not exclude that this plane was shot down, and we stress that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not take action against any airborne targets,” Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said in a statement. “We are sure that those who are guilty in this tragedy will be held responsible.”

“Malaysia Airlines has lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam,” the airline said on Twitter. “The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace. More details to follow.”

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said in a Twitter post that “at this time,” the United States does not have “any confirmation of cause, individuals on plane” or additional details.

Near the end of a Thursday morning phone conversation with President Obama, Russian President Vladi­mir Putin “noted the early reports of a downed passenger jet near the Russia-Ukraine border,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest said. Obama was being briefed on further developments , officials said.

The plane was on its usual flight path and did not appear to have deviated from previous routes used by MH17 in any significant way, the airline data firm FlightAware reported.

Herashenko said on Facebook that “local patriots” reported the movement of the Buk missile system Thursday morning from Torez in the direction of Sneznoye. He said the Malaysian plane was flying at 10,000 meters en route to Kuala Lumpur.

The missile system was “generously provided” to the rebels by Putin, Herashenko charged. “There is no limit to the cynicism of Putin and his terrorists!” he said.

“Europe, Canada, the USA, the civilized world — open your eyes! Help us with everything you can!” he pleaded.

Herashenko said video from the site shows that “some jerks were shouting: Look, how wonderful it is burning! Beautiful!”

For their part, leaders of the separatists’ self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic denied any involvement in bringing down the airliner.

“The plane was shot down by the Ukrainian side,” said Serhiy Kavtaradze, a member of the rebels’ security council, according to the Russia’s Interfax news agency. “We simply do not have such air defense systems.” He said rebels’ shoulder-launched antiaircraft missiles “have a firing range of only 3,000 to 4,000 meters” and that passenger jets fly at much higher altitudes.

Kavtaradze expressed condolences to the victims’ families on behalf of separatist leaders, Interfax reported.

“It is obvious that people died,” he said. “This is very dreadful news.”

The Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise said it has launched an investigation into the incident.

Andrei Purgin, the first deputy prime minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, said the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 could have been brought down by Ukrainian forces.

“Very serious clashes are ongoing in the region where the Boeing crashed,” he told Interfax. “Non-top gunfire is under way there.”

He denied that the rebels possess the SA-17 Buk air-defense as Kiev alleges.

However, the Associated Press reported that a similar launcher was seen by the agency’s journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday. The Buk missile system can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet), AP said.

Ukrainian authorities said Thursday that a Ukrainian air force Su-25 jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane Wednesday evening, forcing the pilot to bail out.

The downing of the close-air-support jet provided further evidence of direct Russian support for the separatist insurgents in eastern Ukraine, Ukrainian officials said. Ukraine charged that a military transport plane was shot down Monday by a missile fired from Russian territory.

The rebels claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Su-25 jets, AP reported. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile but the pilot was unharmed and managed to land the plane safely.

-- Washington Post 2014-07-18

[wooloomooloo]

another bad day for aviation. RIP.

Another bad day for humanity.

Other than that, words fail me.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JetsetBkk]

There are some horrific photos circulating. Please don't post them here.

[george]

Malaysia Airlines Jet With 295 People Aboard Crashes in Ukraine

MOSCOW — A Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with 295 people aboard crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border on Thursday, and Ukrainian officials said it may have been shot down, possibly by a Russian-made antiaircraft system.

Ukraine’s president, Petro O. Poroshenko, said in a statement that he was calling for an immediate investigation of the crash of the plane, which was en route to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, from Amsterdam. There were no reported survivors among the 280 passengers and 15 crew members.

A regional airline official said the plane had been flying at about 33,000 feet when radar lost track of it. Eastern Ukraine has been roiled for months by a violent pro-Russian separatist uprising in which a number of military aircraft have been downed. But this would be the first commercial airline disaster to result from the hostilities.

Malaysia Airlines, still reeling from the mysterious loss of another Boeing 777 flight in March, said it had lost contact with the flight, MH17, over Ukraine but offered no further details immediately. Malaysia’s prime minister, Najib Razak, said in a Twitter post that he was “shocked by reports that an MH plane crashed. We are launching an immediate investigation.”

President Obama and President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia spoke by telephone, and Mr. Putin raised the issue of the reports of the downed plane, White House officials said. Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, said Mr. Obama had been briefed about the plane crash.

By early evening, images surfaced online that purported to show debris in the green fields of eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainskaya Pravda newspaper published on its website a photograph posted earlier to a social networking site showing a fragment of a passenger airplane’s fuselage, painted in the red and blue of Malaysia Airlines, in a grassy field. Lifenews, a Russian online television site, put up an image of blackened, smoking wreckage.

Andrei Purgin, deputy prime minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, the insurgent group in eastern Ukraine, denied in a telephone interview that the rebels had anything to do with the loss of the passenger jet. He said that the rebels had shot down Ukrainian planes before but that their antiaircraft weapons could reach only to around 4,000 meters, far below the cruising level of passenger jets.

“We don’t have the technical ability to hit a plane at that height,” he said. He said the plane apparently came down in an area of Ukrainian military operations and that it was not out of the question that the Ukrainians themselves shot it down.

“Remember the Black Sea plane diaster,” he said, referring to the 2001 crash of a passenger jet bound for Israel that the Ukrainians shot down by accident during a military training exercise.

Anton Geraschenko, an adviser at the Ukraine Interior Ministry, said on his Facebook page that the Malaysia Airlines plane had been brought down by a Russian-made Buk, or Beech, antiaircraft system. Russian missile systems are named for trees.

Mr. Geraschenko wrote that earlier Thursday people in eastern Ukraine supporting the central government had reported seeing a Buk system moved from the town of Torez toward the town of Snezhnoye.

A commander of a rebel unit in Donetsk, said, “We could have shot down three planes over Donetsk yesterday, but we didn’t because they could have been civilians.” He said the rebel forces did not have the BUK system.

-- nytimes.com 2014-07-18

[tso310]

Back in the 80s when I was travelling regularly between London and Bangkok the flightpath went over Kabul. You could see the flashes of the Russian artillery firing, the shells hitting the ground and something on fire. The point being that the Taliban then had stinger missiles but hand held missiles then and now could not reach an airliner at over 30000ft at 560mph, so it was safe. Obviously something has potentially changed with the type of weapons being supplied.

[george]

#BREAKING: Malaysian airliner was flying normally without problems until disappeared from radar: head of Ukrainian airspace regulatory body /@Reuters

[Jingthing]

Ukraine government reporting the plane was shot down by a RUSSIAN plane. Not a pro-Russian separatist rebel weapon. Russian. Also keep in mind initial reports are many Americans on board. As far as the black box, there is going to be an issue as to which country is in control of the investigation. Probably going to be Russia. Can you see the problem with that? Perhaps welcome to Cold War 2.0.

MOSCOW — The Ukrainian government said on Thursday that a Russian military plane had shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet in Ukrainian airspace the previous evening, a serious allegation of direct intervention by Russia’s armed forces.

If confirmed, the confrontation would represent the first open and direct involvement by Russia’s military in eastern Ukraine since the separatist rebellion began there in April.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-says-russian-plane-shot-down-its-fighter-jet.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=b-lede-package-region&region=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package

Edited July 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[mrtoad]

This really does have the potential to kick off big style. I think there will be lots of finger pointing between Russia and The Ukraine over the coming days, neither side will wish to be responsible. What a waste of life.

[kaobang]

https://twitter.com/Ougasam/status/489812599283150848/photo/1

arrest this bastard now! he is the leader of the pro russian insurgents

Edited July 17, 2014 by kaobang

[Beetlejuice]

Ukraine government reporting the plane was shot down by a RUSSIAN plane. Not a pro-Russian separatist rebel weapon. Russian. Also keep in mind initial reports are many Americans on board. As far as the black box, there is going to be an issue as to which country is in control of the investigation. Probably going to be Russia. Can you see the problem with that? Perhaps welcome to Cold War 2.0.

MOSCOW — The Ukrainian government said on Thursday that a Russian military plane had shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet in Ukrainian airspace the previous evening, a serious allegation of direct intervention by Russia’s armed forces.

If confirmed, the confrontation would represent the first open and direct involvement by Russia’s military in eastern Ukraine since the separatist rebellion began there in April.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-says-russian-plane-shot-down-its-fighter-jet.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=b-lede-package-region&region=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package

I totally agree.

Not only have we all the middle east terrorists to contend with, but it appears since the problems with the Ukraine vs Russia we are entering into another cold war with Russia also.

Russia has been the thorn in Europe's side for decades. Even after the fall of the Soviet Union it is still causing problems and unrest in those regions. My dad once told me that after WW2 the allies should have continued on and marched straight into Russia while the Russians were weak and down as they are going to become a major threat to world peace in the future. Perhaps he was right?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[zydeco]

Not the first time, of course, that the Russians would have shot down a civilian airliner--if they did. The Russian military tends to be oafish and hamfisted. The separatists they fund, support, and likely help man are not going to be any more enlightened than their sponsors.

[toonsai]

I highly doubt that Ukraine separatists have missiles capable of shooting an aircraft cruising at 11,000 meters altitude... It requires a very sophisticated equipment + highly technical people.

Edited July 17, 2014 by toonsai

[Loptr]

This is a zone that many of we Europeans fly through on our way to Asia - there but for the grace of ----

I only hope that those that died were gone in an instant - tragic.

<deleted>...why would any airline fly through a known war zone. It would seem quite retarded to do so & a no brainer to stay well clear of it. This could be the end of the company "Malaysian Airlines".

Especially considering that 2 other aircraft have been shot down in the region in the last week...

[ClutchClark]

I highly doubt that Ukraine separatists have missiles capable of shooting an aircraft cruising at 11,000 meters altitude... It requires a very sophisticated equipment + highly technical people.

News reports from US State Dept Spokesperson last week indicate that Russia has been moving these very types of weapons to the border and reportedly supplying Separatist Rebels.

[lostsoul49]

Lufthansa have just announced they will stop flying over this area. I guess others will follow. Shame they didn't all do this sooner.

Sent from my C6902 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Brits had already a few days ago sent out an international recommendation and advisory that all airlines avoid that particular airspace.

The airlines obviously thought more about their economics than heeding the advice of the British.

Then this is what happens and as an instant reaction has now been globally recognised as a 'no go' zone.