MH17: Malaysia Airlines Plane Shot Down Near Ukraine Border

[Bernard Flint]

Has Anyone read the conspiracy theory on facebook, its disgusting, the plane didnt exist,and its the jesuites fault, cannot comprehend this

[lostmebike]

Is it fair to say that someone untrained (separatists???) panicked and fired a SAM at this passenger jet thinking it to be a military jet?

Or is it the case, as some are saying that this was deliberate in an attempt to blame the other side with the mass murder of innocent civilians?

I think option one is highly viable at this time.

Have you seen these separatists on TV? Ciggy hanging out the mouth, AK in 1 hand and belly hanging out for all to see.

Those poor families of the victims must be going through hell right now.

Edited July 18, 2014 by lostmebike

[Rimmer]

Video of an AN-26 being shot down over Sloviansk has been removed also the replies to it

[MikeN]

Buk missile system specifications - source wiki

Basic missile system specifications

• Target acquisition range (by TAR 9S18M1, 9S18M1-1) range: 140 altitude: 60 meters 25 kilometers (197 feet - 15.5 miles)
• Firing groups in one division: up to 6 (with one command post)
• Firing groups operating in a sector 90° in azimuth, 07° and 714° in elevation 45° in azimuth, 1452° in elevation
• Radar mast lifting height (for TAR 9S36): 21 meters
• Reloading of 4 missiles by TEL from itself: around 15 minutes
• Combat readiness time: no more than 5 minutes
• Kill probability (by one missile): 9095%
• Target engagement zone aircraft altitude: 15 meters 25 kilometers (50 feet - 15.5 miles) range: 3-42 kilometers (1.9-12.4 miles)

I think you or they may have reversed those last couple of altitude and range,,.or did I misunderstand being a peaceful type.

Being an ex-military type myself, it sounds about right. It can engage an aircraft (ie lock target on it and fire) as low as 15m altitude, 3kms away up to 25kms high and 42kms away ...so well within reach of a 777 at 10,000m or so and out of visual sight. Edited July 18, 2014 by MikeN

[Thunder26]

http://web.archive.org/web/20140717152222/http://vk.com/strelkov_info

There the separatist leader Strelkov warned between lines after shooting down the 2 planes (one of them might have been the MA plane) "I told them not to fly in our area!"

Edited July 18, 2014 by Thunder26

[lostmebike]

Buk missile system specifications - source wiki

Basic missile system specifications

• Target acquisition range (by TAR 9S18M1, 9S18M1-1) range: 140 altitude: 60 meters 25 kilometers (197 feet - 15.5 miles)
• Firing groups in one division: up to 6 (with one command post)
• Firing groups operating in a sector 90° in azimuth, 07° and 714° in elevation 45° in azimuth, 1452° in elevation
• Radar mast lifting height (for TAR 9S36): 21 meters
• Reloading of 4 missiles by TEL from itself: around 15 minutes
• Combat readiness time: no more than 5 minutes
• Kill probability (by one missile): 9095%
• Target engagement zone aircraft altitude: 15 meters 25 kilometers (50 feet - 15.5 miles) range: 342 kilometers (1.9-12.4 miles)

I think you or they may have reversed those last couple of altitude and range,,.or did I misunderstand being a peaceful type.

Being an ex-military type myself, it sounds about right. It can engage an aircraft (ie lock target on it and fire) as low as 15m altitude, 3kms away up to 25kms high and 42kms away ...so well within reach of a 777 at 10,000m or so and out of visual sight.

...and flying at nearly 2700 MPH, it would've hit that plane without anyone knowing it was coming.

[MikeN]

as former missle oficer i know "BUK" system quite well. It seemes to me that Ukranian militaries tested "BUK" and forgot (or did not know) to turn off missle. there is the jack SH1 which must be connected only when you want to kill a plane. The same situation happened earlyer when unquilifited Ukranians shot Russian TU-154M in 2001.

you know squat .We KNOW the east ukraine pro Russian seperatists have BUK , so dont spread your bull Mr Fake engineer

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It does not prove Ukraine Doesn't have this system, does it?

Actually the Ukraine military equipment is almost 100% Russian..... Obviously.

Strange how within an hour the Ukrainians were saying it was a BUK.... how do they know what it was????

One of the many strange behaviours of the Ukrainians since this plane was hit.

Ukraine has everything to gain from this and Russia has nothing to gain at all.

It was Ukraine that did this, and it was totally deliberate and planned.

I am convinced of it.

As you said, Ukrainian equipment is mainly Russian. Some of that equipment has been taken by pro-Russian separatists, don't you think that the Ukrainian military commanders would know what is missing ? "Know your enemy" !! What is their capability ?

International press certainly know, the separatists were showing them off to the press ! That's how they know it was a BUK.

Personally I think it was possibly one of those separatists who wanted to use his new toy and pushed the red button before checking what he was firing at.

[Asiantravel]

Putin may have been the real target. Apparently Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time

So you claim that pro Russian forces targeted Putins plane ?

no i am not

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down ..

http://luismmx.blogspot.com/2014/07/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests.html

[laolover88]

A terrible thing. Whatever and whoever..Whether terrorism, accident, fate...Cannot see anyone flying on MAS ever again. The company has died

[soihok]

I am flying with MAS in a few weeks time.

[Shurup]

Waiting for our European members to blame this on America and start ranting as usual...

If anyone is to blame for the unrest in Ukraine it is the EU, provoking the Russians with their expansionist agenda into Russia's backyard. Russia merely reacted predictably to the political incursion.

I disagree. Russia bullied Ukraine by taking Crimea in the first place and then stirring separatism in East Ukraine. That is a fact!

It all started before Crimea...

[mok199]

now that russia has retrieved the black box and secured the area,we will get little information and my prediction is ,russia will anounce they have punnished the ''rouge'' militia personall responsible and that will be the end of thier responsibility......'' my personal reaction is'' i wont even ride in a baht bus with a russian again....

Edited July 18, 2014 by Rimmer
Please DO NOT post in non standard fonts thank you

[bra]

Yes, you two gentlemen are probably right. It's just that as a Malaysian, I am feeling emotional right now

Dear Gweiloman, I am with you. As a previous airline crew member I feel very sorry for Malaysian Airlines, losing two planes within a short time.

Still we have to wait until it is absolutely clear, who shot the plane down. My humble opinion: Maybe the Ukrainian separatist by mistake, maybe the Ukrainian Army

by mistake or by purpose. It could in NO WAY have been in the interest of the Russians. My two cents only.

My sincere condolences to the families and friends of the deceased. And my deepest sympathy to all of Malaysian Airlines.

I am an Australian but I worked on aviation projects in Malaysia for 10 years, so its like a second home to me. I felt it too treading many ignorant and insulting posts on TV about MH 370, and now these people are here again commenting on MH17. Nobody knows what really happened to MH370, and the circumstances regarding MH17 have yet to be confirmed. So lets not blame MH until some FACTS are known. My thoughts are now with all who perished in both events and their families, and also all Malaysians.

[Lite Beer]

MH17 CRASH
Difficult to identify aircraft in hostile airspace
Akil Yunus
The Star

It is difficult for militant groups to determine if an aircraft flying over hostile airspace is of a civilian or military nature.

Ahmad Salman Abdul Rahim, one of the Malaysian jihadists fighting in Syria, said civilians were at great risk as militant groups did not possess the radar equipment and technology to ascertain if an air target was ’friend or foe’.

"In Syria airspace for instance, commercial flights are allowed passage through the airspace even though the country is at war.

"Sometimes, there is a misunderstanding between us, thinking that it is one of the enemy’s aircrafts, only to discover that it is actually a civilian plane," he posted to his Facebook page following the Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine on Thursday night.

Referring to the fate of MH17, which is said to have been shot down from the sky, Ahmad Salman said the warring parties could then point fingers at each other if "unwanted incidents" occurred.

"This is a reality that poses a great risk to the safety of civilians. Is there no alternative route for civilian airplanes to take?" he wrote.

Ahmad Salman also expressed his shock at the incident and conveyed his group’s condolences to the loved ones of the passengers and crew onboard the flight.

"This is an important lesson for us to learn from," he added.

MH17, en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam, departed at 12.15pm local time and was estimated to arrive at Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 6.10am Malaysian time the next day.

The flight was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/aec/Difficult-to-identify-aircraft-in-hostile-airspace-30238846.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-18

[smileydude]

The 21st century is full of technological paradoxes.

We have the radar and communications technology to differentiate and identify between the imprint of a boeing 777 and a fighter/military plane.

We have SAM's that can reach 72,000 ft.

Yet we shoot down civilian planes.

Cause? Stupid humans.

Not surprised if we are the cause of our own extinction.

Makes you want to pound your head against the wall in sheer frustration at the utterly senseless loss of life that should never have happened in this day and age.

[BKKBrit]

I am flying with MAS in a few weeks time.

And it's still a great airline with some of the best inflight crew around.

[bkkjames]

Still waiting for answers to the questions..

Why so far off course? Weather?

Why apparent different aircraft ID numbers as was pointed out earlier regarding the Dutch guy who posted a photo on his fb page before taking the doomed flight?

[harrry]

Being an ex-military type myself, it sounds about right. It can engage an aircraft (ie lock target on it and fire) as low as 15m altitude, 3kms away up to 25kms high and 42kms away ...so well within reach of a 777 at 10,000m or so and out of visual sight.

Looking at this I agree. I was getting my feet and metre conversions mixed up. Who in their right mind measures altitude in metres I have both feet on the ground and that is the right way of measuring it

Edited July 18, 2014 by harrry

[kjhbigv]

Whether it was the Russians, the rebels or the Ukranians.....how will they be held responsible for nearly 300 murders?

Unfortunately, I think the families will never see justice.

[Lite Beer]

Black box found at plane crash site in Ukraine: emergency workers

GRABOVE, Ukraine - Rescue workers at the crash site of Malaysian airliner MH17 in eastern Ukraine told an AFP reporter Friday that they had found one of the black boxes from the passenger liner.

Emergency crews were working through the debris of the downed jet that was spread out across an area stretching for kilometres while rebels controlling the area have pledged to allow international investigators access to the site.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Black-box-found-at-plane-crash-site-in-Ukraine-eme-30238849.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-18

[harrry]

i may or may not have been in error in stating that MAC (in Russia) was the ICAO authority. It seems that they have their own panel since 2012 but it is confusing whether or not this is recognised by ICAO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Aviation_Committee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Infrastructure_(Ukraine)#State_Aviation_Service_of_Ukraine

[Jip99]

I am flying with MAS in a few weeks time.

And it's still a great airline with some of the best inflight crew around.

That is as maybe but they certainly are not going to be able to use "lucky" in any logos or slogans.

Two catastrophes within a few months will deter all but the die hards.

[Chicog]

Waiting for our European members to blame this on America and start ranting as usual...

If anyone is to blame for the unrest in Ukraine it is the EU, provoking the Russians with their expansionist agenda into Russia's backyard. Russia merely reacted predictably to the political incursion.

I disagree. Russia bullied Ukraine by taking Crimea in the first place and then stirring separatism in East Ukraine. That is a fact!

Actually Putin's intervention in Ukraine goes back much further than that when he started controlling Ukraine through a puppet president.

The majority in Ukraine, and especially the west of the country, wanted to move away from Putin's dictatorship to a more free EU membership, to which of course he was opposed.

Everything that's happened since is a result of his actions, and the blood of thousands of people, plus these innocent travellers, is squarely on his hands.

Of course he'll never face justice for it; these "world leaders" never do.

[Mosha]

1st flew 17th July 1997 17 years ago. MH17

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-28411.htm

New to flying then !

Ironically, 9M-MRD is the aircraft that previously was carrying the "Freedom of Space" livery.

17th of July ain't the safest day to fly..

TWA 800 & TAM 3054

Edited July 18, 2014 by Mosha

[soihok]

Yes, it will be a miracle if the Airline survives.

[neverdie]

My thoughts are with the people aboard MH-17, their families, friends and loved ones. This evil and despicable crime needs to be fully investigated and the perpetrators of this horrendous attack on innocent travellers need to be brought to account as a matter of priority.

In the event that this turns out to be a state sponsored event, I hope that the clouds blacken over the skys of the nation responsible and their lives are altered in such a way never seen before. This is an international incident and it needs the entire international community to stand up and act to prevent any further such events.

This is another sad day for the world, another sad day for aviation.

My special thoughts go to my friends and their families at MAS.

[skippybangkok]

I dont blame the SAM guys, its clearly on the Flight Planning in KUL, and the Captain for agreeing with such a stupid route.

I've read some dumb shit on TV, but that's pushing for a gold medal.

Totally understood. Quite difficult for someone of your level to understand.

Your obviously not familiar with a flight planning department. It's like going down town Bkk a few months back where the protestors are throwing grenades , and then saying "it should be ok".

Why take the risk ?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[easyas]

Putin has stated that the country over which any such incident occurs is responsible for the incident itself.

Really? That makes Scotland responsible for Lockerbie!

[spidermike007]

A lot of reports are coming out about the possibility that the Russians shot the plane down. Either intentionally, or more than likely by mistake? What would this mean, if this can be established? This would put Russia in quite an awful position.

[slipperylobster]

Yes, you two gentlemen are probably right. It's just that as a Malaysian, I am feeling emotional right now

Dear Gweiloman, I am with you. As a previous airline crew member I feel very sorry for Malaysian Airlines, losing two planes within a short time.

Still we have to wait until it is absolutely clear, who shot the plane down. My humble opinion: Maybe the Ukrainian separatist by mistake, maybe the Ukrainian Army

by mistake or by purpose. It could in NO WAY have been in the interest of the Russians. My two cents only.

My sincere condolences to the families and friends of the deceased. And my deepest sympathy to all of Malaysian Airlines.

I am an Australian but I worked on aviation projects in Malaysia for 10 years, so its like a second home to me. I felt it too treading many ignorant and insulting posts on TV about MH 370, and now these people are here again commenting on MH17. Nobody knows what really happened to MH370, and the circumstances regarding MH17 have yet to be confirmed. So lets not blame MH until some FACTS are known. My thoughts are now with all who perished in both events and their families, and also all Malaysians.

Quickly please...the facts.

Two is hard to handle....lets clear these before there is another Malaysian disaster.