Koh Tao headman offers Bt1m cash if evidence proves his family implicated in the tourist murder

[ClutchClark]

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

MJ,

It is not for a farang to tell Thailand how they should manage their value system or their societal norms any more than vacationers thinking they have a right to tell Britain the same.

The Thai people seem pretty content and not miserable so That claim seems to be refuted by simple observation. My Thai wife got a good laugh at your claim but she shakes her head at so much of what is said about Thai on TV.

To suggest David & Hannah are a victim of that evil unique to Thailand as observed by a Westerner such as yourself suggests that violent crime does not occur in your own country where you apparently do not have a patronage system.

I would whole-heartedly agree that Thailand is not a safe country.

They're not content. Why do you think there's now a junta in charge? The country was on the brink of civil war over exactly what I've outlined above.

David and Hannah certainly are victims of the patronage system. With all the evidence to date I really can't come to any other conclusion.

There have been dozens of coups and the country has been ruled by the military for the majority of the past century. Coups are part of the Thai political system. They are not an indicator of being miserable. There was not about to be a civil war.

Unless you can tell me the specifics on why these two young people were murdered due a patronage system then it remains a wildly unsubstantiated claim. Violent crime exists everywhere. Google suggests it even visits the shores of GB.

[MJP]

^^Because those who did it knew they'd get away with it . . . the root cause being the patronage system and its perversion of justice.

[joecoolfrog]

Dealthedice

There are certain dangers but that alone shouldnt dissuade you from coming back . The vast majority of visitors wont have major problems , the key is to keep your head down , your mouth shut and avoid confrontations with the locals. Thailand is a trade off between good and bad , sometimes you just need to smile and count to ten. Recent events have sparked a lot of anger , and rightly so , but most of us will stay or keep coming back.

Anywhere that attracts large numbers of tourists will also attract criminals and scam artists , in my view this makes the likes of Pattaya , Phuket , Samui possibly more dangerous for visitors.

[MrWorldwide]

the dna is not worth squat if it is not matched to the correct doner & all hard files and samples locked down. otherwise it is a carney shell "hide the pea game" . this whole mess has been a real wake up for me. i feel kinda foolish thinking the police were the good guys.

Seriously ? I've never thought of them as anything even remotely resembling the 'good guys' and the same goes for the vast majority of law enforcement through most of Asia - Japan, Singapore and possibly HK being the only exceptions although my opinion of mainland Chinese Police is so low that HK may be just as bad now. Indonesian police have reportedly reached the stage that they wont even investigate a crime unless you are prepared to pay them to do so or you know the 'right' people. Police misconduct - including corruption, dodgy evidence and perjury - has been an ongoing issue in Australia and I'm loathe to mention the US - seems they have a 'shoot first and ask questions later' approach in many states.

IMO, these are people best avoided.

[ScubaPhuket]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Not really. Catherine Horton's killers were caught and prosecuted because they weren't in the upper echelons of Thai society.

The 100% comment was to indicate that 'a proportion' could be 1%, 10% etc. They're not all evil but they do all hold a national belief that they can do as they please towards a farang because the police, the protectors, hold the same national belief.

[Tywais]

One inflammatory post, one inappropriate comment and several duplicates removed.

[ClutchClark]

^^Because those who did it knew they'd get away with it . . . the root cause being the patronage system and its perversion of justice.

No disrespect intended but that is an unproven assumption at this point.

The killers' motives or thoughts are unknown to us and purely speculative.

Are you saying that no one in Thailand gets arrested for crime?

I suppose most crimes are committed globally by people who do not expect to be punished for committing them.

[balo]

webfact, on 16 Sept 2014 - 08:55, said:

CRIME

Koh Tao 'sealed off' after two tourists brutally killed

THE NATION, AFP

Gruesome murders of British pair on island paradise shock locals and visitors

BANGKOK: -- POLICE have sealed off the resort island of Koh Tao off Surat Thani province to hunt down killers who brutally murdered a British couple and possibly raped the woman on Sunday night. The 24-year-old victims have been identified as Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....itish-tourists/

this person in the black t shirt looks the same person put on the facebook pages and another newspaper we cant quote . this is dated 16 sept 14

Is this villiage headman with the gloves on at the crime also ?

Hard to tell with the grainy imagery, look at the hairline though, the contour of it and shape.

And why is there a bandage on his left hand? Recent wounds from beating somebodies face in?

He is actualy wearing white gloves. He could be working for the police you know.

[ClutchClark]

the dna is not worth squat if it is not matched to the correct doner & all hard files and samples locked down. otherwise it is a carney shell "hide the pea game" . this whole mess has been a real wake up for me. i feel kinda foolish thinking the police were the good guys.

Seriously ? I've never thought of them as anything even remotely resembling the 'good guys' and the same goes for the vast majority of law enforcement through most of Asia - Japan, Singapore and possibly HK being the only exceptions although my opinion of mainland Chinese Police is so low that HK may be just as bad now. Indonesian police have reportedly reached the stage that they wont even investigate a crime unless you are prepared to pay them to do so or you know the 'right' people. Police misconduct - including corruption, dodgy evidence and perjury - has been an ongoing issue in Australia and I'm loathe to mention the US - seems they have a 'shoot first and ask questions later' approach in many states.

IMO, these are people best avoided.

Unsubstantiated generalization about US Law Enforcement.

There are nearly one million sworn Law Enforcement officers in the US.

They are trained to shoot first first and ask questions later when they or anyone else are faced with an imminent threat of grievous bodily harm.

In fact, that is a Right afforded all Americans.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ClutchClark

[MJP]

^^Because those who did it knew they'd get away with it . . . the root cause being the patronage system and its perversion of justice.

No disrespect intended but that is an unproven assumption at this point.

The killers' motives or thoughts are unknown to us and purely speculative.

Are you saying that no one in Thailand gets arrested for crime?

I suppose most crimes are committed globally by people who do not expect to be punished for committing them.

Evidence so far does point to the root cause being the patronage system. The handling of the case certainly does.

This is not a case of missing persons.

The victims were found shortly after death, the evidence strewn around.

Now look at the obfuscation by authorities so far.

Sorry Clarkey, so far I can't come to any other conclusion.

[ClutchClark]

^^Because those who did it knew they'd get away with it . . . the root cause being the patronage system and its perversion of justice.

No disrespect intended but that is an unproven assumption at this point.

The killers' motives or thoughts are unknown to us and purely speculative.

Are you saying that no one in Thailand gets arrested for crime?

I suppose most crimes are committed globally by people who do not expect to be punished for committing them.

Evidence so far does point to the root cause being the patronage system. The handling of the case certainly does.

This is not a case of missing persons.

The victims were found shortly after death, the evidence strewn around.

Now look at the obfuscation by authorities so far.

Sorry Clarkey, so far I can't come to any other conclusion.

OK, so you are saying that the investigation appears to be affected by a patronage system?

There does appear to be some evidence of that; however, the only knowledge I have of the investigation is from the media here and the BBC.

[joecoolfrog]

I dont think all Thais are unhappy but a lot of them want change , the country is bitterly divided , utterly delusional to think otherwise. Coups are a reaction to unrest , not a splendid Thai tradition.

[MobileContent]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Personally I'm very seriously considering divorce over this because my thai wife refuses to believe that a thai is responsible.

Brainwashed by thai TV.

Come on ScubaPhuket it is not 100%. The whole of the Northeast of Thailand is very safe as long you have common sense. In over 24 years I have been in Thailand I only had once a problem in Thailand and it was a farang.

A lot of Thai's are discussed and feel ashamed of what happened to the two Brits. Their are hundreds of thousand of Thai's employed in the tourism industry and they are certainly not murderers or think they can get away with it.

Rape happens all the time in Thailand and often they are Thai's and they often don't get away with it.

Now you want to divorce your wife because she refuses to believe that a Thai is responsible? It's up to her what she wants to believe.

[MJP]

^^Because those who did it knew they'd get away with it . . . the root cause being the patronage system and its perversion of justice.

No disrespect intended but that is an unproven assumption at this point.

The killers' motives or thoughts are unknown to us and purely speculative.

Are you saying that no one in Thailand gets arrested for crime?

I suppose most crimes are committed globally by people who do not expect to be punished for committing them.

Evidence so far does point to the root cause being the patronage system. The handling of the case certainly does.

This is not a case of missing persons.

The victims were found shortly after death, the evidence strewn around.

Now look at the obfuscation by authorities so far.

Sorry Clarkey, so far I can't come to any other conclusion.

OK, so you are saying that the investigation appears to be affected by a patronage system?

There does appear to be some evidence of that; however, the only knowledge I have of the investigation is from the media here and the BBC.

Let's keep watching. I used not to be so cynical but 14 years of the land of smiles and observation of their hierachy always stop me to pause and question these days.

My vested interest is the future of daughters there.

[MJP]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Personally I'm very seriously considering divorce over this because my thai wife refuses to believe that a thai is responsible.

Brainwashed by thai TV.

Come on ScubaPhuket it is not 100%. The whole of the Northeast of Thailand is very safe as long you have common sense. In over 24 years I have been in Thailand I only had once a problem in Thailand and it was a farang.

A lot of Thai's are discussed and feel ashamed of what happened to the two Brits. Their are hundreds of thousand of Thai's employed in the tourism industry and they are certainly not murderers or think they can get away with it.

Rape happens all the time in Thailand and often they are Thai's and they often don't get away with it.

Now you want to divorce your wife because she refuses to believe that a Thai is responsible? It's up to her what she wants to believe.

I agree with this.

[balo]

They should still DNA him regardless

Please help me to understand what benefit there is in taking the time to DNA test a person that can prove he was 800 kms from the crime?

Some might think that was a waste of investigative resources that could be spent actually pursuing credible leads.

Think I have missed something.

When did the son LEAVE for his 800km trip to BKK....?

There are two sons involved, my understanding is that one of the sons never came to the island , he was living in BKK where he studies at a university. He was also found on cctv footage when he walked into his condo the same night as the murder took place . So no DNA test was asked for. The other son is still on the run .

[ClutchClark]

I dont think all Thais are unhappy but a lot of them want change , the country is bitterly divided , utterly delusional to think otherwise. Coups are a reaction to unrest , not a splendid Thai tradition.

12 successful and 8 failed since 1932.

Average one every four years.

Thats how often we hold elections in the US (for reference).

At what point can it be considered a tradition?

[ScubaPhuket]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Personally I'm very seriously considering divorce over this because my thai wife refuses to believe that a thai is responsible.

Brainwashed by thai TV.

Come on ScubaPhuket it is not 100%. The whole of the Northeast of Thailand is very safe as long you have common sense. In over 24 years I have been in Thailand I only had once a problem in Thailand and it was a farang.

A lot of Thai's are discussed and feel ashamed of what happened to the two Brits. Their are hundreds of thousand of Thai's employed in the tourism industry and they are certainly not murderers or think they can get away with it.

Rape happens all the time in Thailand and often they are Thai's and they often don't get away with it.

Now you want to divorce your wife because she refuses to believe that a Thai is responsible? It's up to her what she wants to believe.

I can go into the rape of daughters & sisters in northern thailand & the way that it's an accepted part of thai culture but I don't really want to.

I can further go on to describe the thousands of daughters working in the prostitution industry in tourist areas, mostly from poor northern thailand but I don't really want to.

I can describe the way that dumb farangs are married to leeching families brainwashing them into thai ways of thinking but I don't really want to.

I'm sure that a lot of your friends SAY that they are ashamed but deep down they know that thailand as it is today has been built on lies, prostitution & dirty fat old men with more money than sense & an eye for a dirty girl half their age & they're very happy with it.

My point is that half of the ex-pats in this country are as bad as the thais.

I therefore choose not to take a lot of notice of them.

You should too.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[MJP]

^^So much truth to what you say Scuba. The truth in LOS is never pretty.

Don't go making rash decisions though old boy.

[weaver93]

not sure if this 'story' has been commented on, relating to

Chris & James Ware in Bangkok...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Miller-Hannah-Witheridge-Tribute/849884258368804?fref=ts

Further more..

When David Miller's shorts were' found' in Ware's suitcase, has it been stated 'where' his shorts were originally found??

[ozzyrules]

In Thai law , can a suspect be obliged to give a DNA sample ?

Not before arrest no.

Well I suggest by social media we make sure these animals are DNA tested or everyone needs to boycott AC bar and that whole area...so the only 2 who have denied to be tested are the same two who were named as suspects...

Plus the brief mention of Mon's staff who went missing...So there are 2 dna samples and 3 suspects, care to explain that one?

If the authorities can look at what has happened and expect to blame social media, bikinis and the fact than many many people are telling them this area is controlled by local mafia then there is a massive problem we all need to stand up and fight and address with basic facts!!!! The 2 latest victims and the many before them deserve it!!

[ClutchClark]

I am saddened by your posts today, Diver, you seem like a troubled misplaced soul.

I do hope you get through this stage where it all seems so rotten to you and you are able to see Thais are good people and so much of what concerns you about the relationships between consenting adults is absolutely none of your affair.

Godspeed.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ScubaPhuket]

I posted on the very first ; " Thailand will be judged not on the murders but the response to them " All I can say is that the response has been extremely poor , perhaps that is not entirely unexpected. What has really disgusted me has been the hardline apologists who simply wont concede that patronage and corruption may just mean that justice will never be served !

Yes Joe it disgusts me too.

Some of these posters should know better than to accuse those who highlight the patronage system being the root cause of the problems in Thailand as being "Thai bashers".

The patronage system is a parasite feeding off the Thai people and returns only misery to them.

The true impact of this evil only becomes apparent to expats and others when people like David and Hannah also become victims of it.

Thailand is not a safe country so long as a proportion of their population know they can literally get away with murder.

QFE & fixed:

"Thailand is NOT A SAFE COUNTRY so long as a proportion (100%) of their population know they can literally GET AWAY WITH MURDER.

Personally I'm very seriously considering divorce over this because my thai wife refuses to believe that a thai is responsible.

Brainwashed by thai TV.

Come on ScubaPhuket it is not 100%. The whole of the Northeast of Thailand is very safe as long you have common sense. In over 24 years I have been in Thailand I only had once a problem in Thailand and it was a farang.

A lot of Thai's are discussed and feel ashamed of what happened to the two Brits. Their are hundreds of thousand of Thai's employed in the tourism industry and they are certainly not murderers or think they can get away with it.

Rape happens all the time in Thailand and often they are Thai's and they often don't get away with it.

Now you want to divorce your wife because she refuses to believe that a Thai is responsible? It's up to her what she wants to believe.

I can go into the rape of daughters & sisters in northern thailand & the way that it's an accepted part of thai culture but I don't really want to.

I can further go on to describe the thousands of daughters working in the prostitution industry in tourist areas, mostly from poor northern thailand but I don't really want to.

I can describe the way that dumb farangs are married to leeching families brainwashing them into thai ways of thinking but I don't really want to.

I'm sure that a lot of your friends SAY that they are ashamed but deep down they know that thailand as it is today has been built on lies, prostitution & dirty fat old men with more money than sense & an eye for a dirty girl half their age & they're very happy with it.

My point is that half of the ex-pats in this country are as bad as the thais.

I therefore choose not to take a lot of notice of them.

You should too.

I am saddened by your posts today, Diver, you seem like a troubled misplaced soul.

I do hope you get through this stage where it all seems so rotten to you and you are able to see Thais are good people and so much of what concerns you about the relationships between consenting adults is absolutely none of your affair.

Godspeed.

If you mean I'm not a dirty ex-pat on the run then I suppose I should thank you for your well wishes but please. This topic is not about you.

[Chutney]

They should still DNA him regardless

Please help me to understand what benefit there is in taking the time to DNA test a person that can prove he was 800 kms from the crime?

Some might think that was a waste of investigative resources that could be spent actually pursuing credible leads.

Think I have missed something.

When did the son LEAVE for his 800km trip to BKK....?

There are two sons involved, my understanding is that one of the sons never came to the island , he was living in BKK where he studies at a university. He was also found on cctv footage when he walked into his condo the same night as the murder took place . So no DNA test was asked for. The other son is still on the run .

Thank you. How do you know this and where did you find it please? There is a great deal of misunderstanding and confused supposition on not only this site but Major UK Media reporting. To be frank it began to look like many UK newspapers were getting their info from here!

[ozzyrules]

Is that the same police who identified a lady on CCTV who was thai as a foreignor..

The same police who declared a thai could never have done this..

The same police who chased Sean into 7/11..

The same police who declared the supect had fled to bangkok then it turns out he has an alibi..Do you think it would make sense to DNA test him, just in case one of his friends or all of them might be lying..

The same police who allowed Mon on the crime scene to stand over and stare at the exposed bodies..

The same poilce who is apparemtly next to him in that crime scene..

Or is it the policeman that chased Sean into 7/11 with Mon the owner...

The same police who released the photos...

The same police that said they were unable to tell is she had been sexually assaulted yet the photos they released show that she was raped AFTER she was murdered...

Do you really think we can believe these police?

Can you please tell us a few things the police have said that are actually true in this case???

Toatal disgrace, you should be ashamed for trying to defend all this BS..

This guy offers a millin fricken baht if they are guilty...what an arrogant <deleted>..

If they are found guilty it will cost them a lot more in disgrace and loss of face and business....

In fact I think that has happened already....

Spot on. The rest of you should be ashamed.

How do you know from the photos she was raped after she was murdered?

I have explained this in other threads, sadly for the familys sake I will do it again,

Because I'm sure the families want the guilty to be brought to justice...

When someone has been killed or died naturally for that matter, the body will harden very quickly due to lack of blood flow,

If penetration was after death then the point of penetration would not close naturally as it would with a person who was penetrated whilst alive..

The photos clearly show that the poor soul was penetrated after death...I'm no expert but I have had it confirmed by those that know what i am saying is 100% correct, cant believe there has not been more disgust from the UK press regarding this...totally sick people whoever did this..

Edited September 25, 2014 by ozzyrules

[joecoolfrog]

Perhaps the General might suggest,purely for transparency, that certain suspects might wish to reconsider giving a DNA test.

[falang1969]

This story will not go away.

The Hierarchy have failed to grasp this.

Unfortunately, it will, give it time........not the first time and won't be the last time! Just drag it out a bit longer and wait until the world's media moves onto something new.

[ClutchClark]

I am saddened by your posts today, Diver, you seem like a troubled misplaced soul.

I do hope you get through this stage where it all seems so rotten to you and you are able to see Thais are good people and so much of what concerns you about the relationships between consenting adults is absolutely none of your affair.

Godspeed.

If you mean I'm not a dirty ex-pat on the run then I suppose I should thank you for your well wishes but please. This topic is not about you.

Just trying to let you know that life in Thailand gets better if you give it half a chance.

FWIW, nor is the post about you and your displeasure at all the people you hold accountable for your general bitterness. An entire Thai population and half the farangs.

You and I agree this was a horrendous crime and like victims of brutal assaults everywhere, the poor kids did not deserve it.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ClutchClark

[paulX]

See:

http://time.com/3420299/thailand-koh-tao-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller/

and:

http://www.news.com.au/world/thailand-murder-probe-british-backpacker-fled-from-thai-mafia/story-fndir2ev-1227067427582

Thai media suck. Its obvious there was an argument in the bar on that night. It should be very easy to identify these people. Why were they not questioned.

this whole case stinks. What Sean McAnna says must be true actually

[MJP]

I am saddened by your posts today, Diver, you seem like a troubled misplaced soul.

I do hope you get through this stage where it all seems so rotten to you and you are able to see Thais are good people and so much of what concerns you about the relationships between consenting adults is absolutely none of your affair.

Godspeed.

If you mean I'm not a dirty ex-pat on the run then I suppose I should thank you for your well wishes but please. This topic is not about you.

Just trying to let you know that life in Thailand gets better if you give it half a chance.

FWIW, nor is the post about you and your displeasure at all the people you hold accountable for your general bitterness. An entire Thai population and half the farangs.

You and I agree this was a horrendous crime and like victims of brutal assaults everywhere, the poor kids did not deserve it.

Clarkey's correct.

But it's tough getting it right. Understanding limits and trust is the main problem for most expats.

There is a certain amount of luck involved too. There are bad families out there. Good people too.