Police says its Koh Tao tourist murder case file solid for prosecution

[bigjules007]

Sorry Banzai. but they appear to have made legitimate protest illegal, not to mention martial law. You wouldn't be suggesting that we all go out and break the would you?

If I felt strongly enough about something, I would break any law that is only enacted to protect the very people I am protesting about.

In this case I don't believe the Police have done wrong and have got the right men.

So no protest from me, how about you, how solid are your convictions ?

That's a convenient reply Banzai, thousands of

people coming together on social media to protest and voice there concerns about something they disagree with is more powerful than 50 people standing outside an embassy waving signs about. Get with the times grandad.

People are already taking notice, the telegraph have written an article about the Burmese being scapegoats and questioning the RTP's conduct in this case.

Do you think that TV is the only forum with these topics on?

So, are you going to physically protest or not, I'm not, because I believe the Police are right, how about you ?

I can be more pro active by protesting and putting views forward via social media then I can protesting physically.

[canuckamuck]

Sorry Banzai. but they appear to have made legitimate protest illegal, not to mention martial law. You wouldn't be suggesting that we all go out and break the would you?

If I felt strongly enough about something, I would break any law that is only enacted to protect the very people I am protesting about.

In this case I don't believe the Police have done wrong and have got the right men.

So no protest from me, how about you, how solid are your convictions ?

A protest outside a building is about the most useless thing a guy can can do in a situation like this.

I have a number of questions about the actions and findings in this case. But this does not motivate me to take leave of my senses.

This country clearly has contempt for freedom of speech. I guess we are being asked to respect that aspect of the culture.

[templedog]

For all you who need to know the meaning of 'conspiracy' and 'conspiracy theory'.

conspiracy

4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

conspiracy theory

noun

1. a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.

So, where is the lunacy too think that these murders were not either one, actually, both?

There is ample evidence in what the police have stated, there is hearsay, and many of the facts contradict or don't add up. Many things were left out. You don't need to be an arm chair warrior CSI freak to see that there are major irregularities in this case that would make even a simple minded person think the official story seems 'not right', maybe even smells like a possible cover-up. Oh wait!! NO, not Thais, they would NEVER do such a thing! So, go ahead all you who bark the all too familiar "Conspiracy Nut" phrase, go ahead and keep the wool over your eyes until its your _______who is found ______ on the beach ________.

Edited October 7, 2014 by templedog

[Banzai99]

Sorry Banzai. but they appear to have made legitimate protest illegal, not to mention martial law. You wouldn't be suggesting that we all go out and break the would you?

If I felt strongly enough about something, I would break any law that is only enacted to protect the very people I am protesting about.

In this case I don't believe the Police have done wrong and have got the right men.

So no protest from me, how about you, how solid are your convictions ?

A protest outside a building is about the most useless thing a guy can can do in a situation like this.

I have a number of questions about the actions and findings in this case. But this does not motivate me to take leave of my senses.

This country clearly has contempt for freedom of speech. I guess we are being asked to respect that aspect of the culture.

Yes this country has different laws to your home country, but you always knew that, you still moved to Thailand though, so you accept their laws.

[bertty]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

Proof of your claim? In light of recent announcements I hope you are not in Thailand and are using a VPN

No I am using your IP address.

Mine is not masked.. Nor does it need to be.

Your allegations may be criminal defamation.

They may well be. But being as I have mentioned no names no organizations. Who would I be defacating ? Be very careful how you answer, as you might implicate yourself here.

[Joe Black]

however, they also reported that the two accused have said they both hit the victims with the blunt side of the hoe and were very drunk that night.

The accused speaking to Myanmar officials..

Thats pretty damning evidence right there ....

[intune53]

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy:

"The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness.

“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Oh, and...

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

Also hope it's ok to add this link to today's article http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Edited October 7, 2014 by intune53

[canuckamuck]

Sorry Banzai. but they appear to have made legitimate protest illegal, not to mention martial law. You wouldn't be suggesting that we all go out and break the would you?

If I felt strongly enough about something, I would break any law that is only enacted to protect the very people I am protesting about.

In this case I don't believe the Police have done wrong and have got the right men.

So no protest from me, how about you, how solid are your convictions ?

A protest outside a building is about the most useless thing a guy can can do in a situation like this.

I have a number of questions about the actions and findings in this case. But this does not motivate me to take leave of my senses.

This country clearly has contempt for freedom of speech. I guess we are being asked to respect that aspect of the culture.

Yes this country has different laws to your home country, but you always knew that, you still moved to Thailand though, so you accept their laws.

Actually I had no idea about any of Thailand's laws when I moved here. I had to shed a lot of optimism over the years.

I prefer to say that I abide by the law. There is no choice for me to accept or refuse them.

[Pattaya46]

Although of limited relevance to this topic, is it your view that these 2 Belgians ransacked their own yacht and then suicide/murder suicide? Very doubtful IMHO

From what I remember, their boat has been "visited" several days *after* they die. It seems to be a consequence rather than the reason. A nice catamaran abandoned in a quiet beach of course get attention of some people...

I don't remember how or why they die though. Will have to look for that. But out of subject here.

[englishoak]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

Proof of your claim? In light of recent announcements I hope you are not in Thailand and are using a VPN

No I am using your IP address.

Mine is not masked.. Nor does it need to be.

Your allegations may be criminal defamation.

Give the scaremongering a rest.

[Pattaya46]

Most farang deaths in Thailand are not murders!

MOST are not, that's reassuring!

How is it different in your country ?

[Joe Black]

I have seen the pictures of the victims ( as graphic as they are )and I have seen the pictures of the confessed killers...I know who was tortured....

Sorry no sympathy from me..

[greenchair]

Welcome to "open season" on all westerners!!

Welcome to dramatic hyperbole by a fringe element of conspiracy theorists.

let's see!

2 violent rapes in the 2 weeks after the incident. Danish and Russian. One of the perps said he couldn't control himself!

No 3 rapes, there was a Spanish girl raped in a Bangkok Taxi also (not to mention 2 westerners drifting up on Phuket and Koh Samet beaches, did I miss any? )

Yep, the russian just turned up dead

In the cell. The 60 year old who had his arm broken over 40 baht.

[heyexile]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

[intune53]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

Because:

"“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Apparently.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

[bertty]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

Because:

"“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Apparently.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Well looks like I got the beatings bit right. Was wrong on the reason he was getting his butt kicked.

[bertty]

I have seen the pictures of the victims ( as graphic as they are )and I have seen the pictures of the confessed killers...I know who was tortured....

Sorry no sympathy from me..

Hey Joe (Song in there somewhere)

Sadly I also saw the pictures, and you know what it could have been me or you sitting on the beach that night having a smoke and a singsong.

It could have been me or you now sitting in a cell with the chance of hanging from the rafters.

It could be my or your parents reading these reports and noticing they have more holes in than a string vest.

It could be me or you that end up thanking the members or the internet communities for exposing these holes and saving our lives for the sake of some Island mobfather and his son.

Yet you saw some pictures and believe all you have heard.

This story has a way to run yet.

Edited October 7, 2014 by bertty

[jdinasia]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

Proof of your claim? In light of recent announcements I hope you are not in Thailand and are using a VPN

No I am using your IP address.

Mine is not masked.. Nor does it need to be.

Your allegations may be criminal defamation.

Give the scaremongering a rest.

I suggest you read the recent stories.

[7Heaven]

I suggest you read the recent stories.

this one?

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

[intune53]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

Because:

"“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Apparently.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Well looks like I got the beatings bit right. Was wrong on the reason he was getting his butt kicked.

In a UK court, a "witness statement" for the prosecution that was found to have been obtained under duress would be regarded as inadmissible in a court of law.

Even Guantanamo bay prisoners have failed to be prosecuted once established that any "confessions" they had given previously had in fact been obtained through torture.

Edited October 7, 2014 by intune53

[dcutman]

Some rights groups have voiced concern over the lack of legal representation for the men.

"The suspects have been kept without legal representation. We still don't have lawyers observing the process directly," said Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, a human rights activist.

"So we are suspicious about the judicial process in terms of these alleged confessions."

Police chief Somyot said the suspects had made no request for lawyers.

"They haven't asked for lawyers. If they had asked for lawyers we would have provided lawyers for them as this is their basic right." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/03/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0HS07H20141003

Now suddenly the lead investigator Mag Gen Suwat claims during the interrogation and confession both these boys had a lawyer present and representing them. ( Bkk post article) "Police defend Koh Tao investigation. "

[jdinasia]

I suggest you read the recent stories.

this one?

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Nope..the one warning against defamation.

[intune53]

Some rights groups have voiced concern over the lack of legal representation for the men.

"The suspects have been kept without legal representation. We still don't have lawyers observing the process directly," said Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, a human rights activist.

"So we are suspicious about the judicial process in terms of these alleged confessions."

Police chief Somyot said the suspects had made no request for lawyers.

"They haven't asked for lawyers. If they had asked for lawyers we would have provided lawyers for them as this is their basic right." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/03/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0HS07H20141003

Now suddenly the lead investigator Mag Gen Suwat claims during the interrogation and confession both these boys had a lawyer present and representing them. ( Bkk post article) "Police defend Koh Tao investigation. "

Come on Reuters!BBC?! UK newspapers?-Where are your voices????

We need international reporting on this. Now. First and foremost including today's reporting from Burmese publications, alleging the suspects confessions have been obtained under duress and some migrant's families threatened:

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

and

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

[spidermike007]

Good...the case is solid for prosecution....I bet it is !!

True that. The case is solid for prosecution of the guy who was not arrested, and let completely off the hook, because his family is untouchable, and nobody, not even the Army wants to rock the boat, upset the apple cart, nor deny the status quo.

Nice thing about being super rich in Thailand, is that you can get away with even a double murder. Does the term "above the law" come to mind?

Edited October 7, 2014 by spidermike007

[slipperx]

They have a right to ask!

Who does ? the UK police ?, The Coroner ?, no they don't, if there was asking to be done, it would be from a far higher level, i.e. at a diplomatic level and seeing as the British Ambassador has already publicly stated he is satisfied, that's the end of it, unless some new tangible evidence comes to light, and I don't mean pixalated photographs of telephones, suspects or "knife wounds" or hysterical comments from conspiracy theorists/tinfoil hatters on internet forums either.

I replied to a post referring to UK authorities which includes the government through the foreign office. The ambassador is merely a civil servant and if there is sufficient public opinion that might affect things politically then you would see some action.

Any government has a right to ask questions of another government if they so choose. If you think otherwise then we will have to agree to differ. Whether any such request would be well received is another question but quite likely it would not cause an issue. Police forces often ask for co-operation between nations too and I am sure that does not go to the highest levels for approval either (except within the police forces concerned).

FO has made a statement..

It did not make me proud - it made me sick. But then it is not the job of the FO to speak the truth nor apparently to be concerned about it.

[heyexile]

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

Because:

"“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Apparently.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Well looks like I got the beatings bit right. Was wrong on the reason he was getting his butt kicked.

So imtune53, he is being kept incommunicado in protective police custody solely for the sake of justice.

Whatever type of police custody he is in, it is `abnormal` not to allow Myanmar consular officials to see him. They have every right to check on his well-being, whether he is a criminal, witness or neither, if they are concerned for his safety. They obviously are concerned for his safety..

I fear you are right bertty. Difficult to know as no one from Embassy is allowed to see him.

[jdinasia]

They have a right to ask!

Who does ? the UK police ?, The Coroner ?, no they don't, if there was asking to be done, it would be from a far higher level, i.e. at a diplomatic level and seeing as the British Ambassador has already publicly stated he is satisfied, that's the end of it, unless some new tangible evidence comes to light, and I don't mean pixalated photographs of telephones, suspects or "knife wounds" or hysterical comments from conspiracy theorists/tinfoil hatters on internet forums either.

I replied to a post referring to UK authorities which includes the government through the foreign office. The ambassador is merely a civil servant and if there is sufficient public opinion that might affect things politically then you would see some action.

Any government has a right to ask questions of another government if they so choose. If you think otherwise then we will have to agree to differ. Whether any such request would be well received is another question but quite likely it would not cause an issue. Police forces often ask for co-operation between nations too and I am sure that does not go to the highest levels for approval either (except within the police forces concerned).

FO has made a statement..

It did not make me proud - it made me sick. But then it is not the job of the FO to speak the truth nor apparently to be concerned about it.

Got it...

The conspiracy theorists have the stranglehold on the TRUTH.

Even though the FO has been privy to the actual investigation.

[bongoz]

Their lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the case was a "set-up and not based on hard facts", according to the Democratic Voice of Burma, an independent Myanmar news organisation based in Norway.

"From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case," he was quoted as saying.

ABC Australia Posted

8 Oct 2014, 12:40am (7 Oct 8:40pm local time) Thailand police chief says officials have carried out 'perfect' investigation of murdered British tourists

Thailand's police chief has defended the arrest of two Myanmar men for the murder of two British tourists amid concern the pair may have admitted to the murders under duress.

The bodies of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found on September 15 with severe head wounds near where they were staying on the southern island of Koh Tao.

Police were widely accused of bungling the investigation and pressure grew for them to solve it quickly.

Last week, police said two Myanmar workers had admitted to killing the tourists and that DNA found on Ms Witheridge matched samples taken from the two men.

"I insist that all officials in this case have done a good job. A perfect job," national police chief General Somyot Poompanmuang told a news conference in Bangkok.

The suspects, who have been identified only as Saw Rim and Win, both 21, have been charged with the murder of both Britons and the rape of Ms Witheridge.

If found guilty, they could face the death penalty.

Their lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the case was a "set-up and not based on hard facts", according to the Democratic Voice of Burma, an independent Myanmar news organisation based in Norway.

"From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case," he was quoted as saying.

Police have stressed the importance of their DNA evidence.

"DNA found on the deceased's body matches the suspects," lead investigator Suwat Chaengyodsuk said.

"This is something that cannot be denied."

Police said a mobile phone belonging to Mr Miller was also found on Saw. A third Myanmar migrant worker is in police custody but has not been charged.

Police dismiss abuse allegations

Some rights groups have voiced concern over accusations of abuse during the investigation.

"A number of serious allegations of physical abuse against Myanmar workers as part of the questioning process in this murder case have been raised to us," Andy Hall, a Thailand-based rights researcher, said.

"The accusations do not concern the two or three persons currently detained for the murder.

"We do not have enough evidence or information at this stage to comment on how or if the two accused have been scapegoated for this crime or not."

Migrant workers often face discrimination in Thailand and have been used as scapegoats for crimes before. But police denied using force during their interrogation.

"I confirm that there was no abuse of any of the suspects," Mr Suwat said.

The case will be forwarded to a court on October 14.

The tourist industry accounts for 10 per cent of Thailand's economy and has yet to recover from a slump in visitors during months of protests on the streets of Bangkok that preceded a military coup in May.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-08/thai-police-chief-defends-murder-investigation-of-british-touri/5797406

[slipperx]

Some rights groups have voiced concern over the lack of legal representation for the men.

"The suspects have been kept without legal representation. We still don't have lawyers observing the process directly," said Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, a human rights activist.

"So we are suspicious about the judicial process in terms of these alleged confessions."

Police chief Somyot said the suspects had made no request for lawyers.

"They haven't asked for lawyers. If they had asked for lawyers we would have provided lawyers for them as this is their basic right." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/03/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0HS07H20141003

Now suddenly the lead investigator Mag Gen Suwat claims during the interrogation and confession both these boys had a lawyer present and representing them. ( Bkk post article) "Police defend Koh Tao investigation. "

And so the nonsense continues. Next will it be that actually they were not interrogated but offered their confession along with a lawyer over a light meal in the afternoon to which they generously invited their interviewers? Perhaps the realization that interrogation and forced confessions don't go down too well in the rest of the world required the 'misunderstanding' about the 'interrogation' and 'confession' to be clarified. There has been an awful lot of misunderstandings lost in translation in this case, and as these two Burmese will later find out a lot more lost in translation in their court trial since translations are rarely very accurate even on essential points.

If the English language newspapers are getting everything mixed up what chance do these Burmese kids stand against a machine intent on self protection of its tourist dollar and beautiful projection of its wonderful people.

If there was an understanding that it fools no one and that respect is derived more from justice and transparency seen to be done then maybe the matter would be handled differently.

Has anyone shown any public remorse for these two young lives lost? I have heard a lot about the effect on tourism and a bit about the perils to girls of bikinis from those in authority but can't recall much sorrow on display for the victims. Is this normal in Thailand?

Edited October 7, 2014 by slipperx

[ffaarraanngg]

Some rights groups have voiced concern over the lack of legal representation for the men.

"The suspects have been kept without legal representation. We still don't have lawyers observing the process directly," said Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, a human rights activist.

"So we are suspicious about the judicial process in terms of these alleged confessions."

Police chief Somyot said the suspects had made no request for lawyers.

"They haven't asked for lawyers. If they had asked for lawyers we would have provided lawyers for them as this is their basic right." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/03/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0HS07H20141003

Now suddenly the lead investigator Mag Gen Suwat claims during the interrogation and confession both these boys had a lawyer present and representing them. ( Bkk post article) "Police defend Koh Tao investigation. "

No doubt theyll manage to find a lawyer to verify this.