Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[Johnsen]

For gods sake now your just hanging yourself and talking to yourself in the third person. Why hang around if you feel that way... Who says all this..

[JohnThailandJohn]

Where is the evidence to hold them for murder????

Asked by you numerous times and answered numerous times

See Also: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771171-parents-say-their-sons-are-innocent-but-beaten-to-confess/page-22#entry8584435

[jdinasia]

Johnsen

See post 514

You don't have the right to discovery.

You claiming in all CAPS that the evidence doesn't exist is just silly.

The initial confessions alone would be enough, add the material witness and the DNA and phone and hoe....

They will stay in jail until the trial is over.

[Number 3]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

What is sad JD is we spend our time here trying to enlighten people with facts and pointing out when somebody is saying something untrue or stating something unfounded as fact. The result is they don't want to hear it. We get called names and accused of being part of a conspiracy to name just a few things but we don't call names or get all emotionally crazed to the point of wanting to hide from facts. Yet, we are the ones in the wrong or being disruptive in their mind despite neither of us saying these folks should be executed or be sentenced for the crimes or anything along the lines except saying they should stand trial given the evidence that has been released. Posters here say we don't want the truth but we and a few others seem to be the only ones willing to point out the facts be it about this case, the law or how things work here or with other involved countries.

Honestly, I don't know why either of you bother.

Right ! They bother because they get a weird satisfaction from riling up those trying to help, to assist the police in the railroading attempts.

I have this image of them sitting side by side on their laptops each day. But they're a tad too important to simply discuss claptrap with each other. Oh no it must be shared to all. Lucky us !

Serious yawn.

[Johnsen]

Recanted confessions that you have already alluded us to...... Well where is the evidence do you still have no thoughts of your own..

[DarloKnight]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

What is sad JD is we spend our time here trying to enlighten people with facts and pointing out when somebody is saying something untrue or stating something unfounded as fact. The result is they don't want to hear it. We get called names and accused of being part of a conspiracy to name just a few things but we don't call names or get all emotionally crazed to the point of wanting to hide from facts. Yet, we are the ones in the wrong or being disruptive in their mind despite neither of us saying these folks should be executed or be sentenced for the crimes or anything along the lines except saying they should stand trial given the evidence that has been released. Posters here say we don't want the truth but we and a few others seem to be the only ones willing to point out the facts be it about this case, the law or how things work here or with other involved countries.

Why bloody quote me? Or am I the easy target cause I'm a women? I have put my point of view across like everyone else or is it cause I am female I'm not allowed a point of view?

All I said was SA not UK!

Thanks jdinasia for pointing out I should scroll down.

The problem with you is how put things across to other people it's all about scoring points not looking at both sides of the debate.

[jdinasia]

MJP

It focuses my thinking. Abuse is a minor annoyance. It always comes from those with the weakest argument.

[pattayasteeve]

 

And now the corrupt Brit cops are here to give them another beating. There is a lot of truth in the old saying ( All Coppers Are B------s ). Police are Mafia in every country.

I hold out no hope for justice in this one !

 

Darwinian quote of the day!!!!

,, the bib couldn't catch a cold they are one of the most corrupt forces on the planet ,get a life ,know justice will be sorted for the English police solve crimes

[MJP]

MJP

It focuses my thinking. Abuse is a minor annoyance. It always comes from those with the weakest argument.

This guy said something about doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And yes, it is driving me mad.

[Johnsen]

Is that why you abuse so many on here....

[jdinasia]

Darlo

I doubt anyone knew your gender.

[jayjayjayjay]

Wow. The invisible people become visible. I get the feeling this won't end well.

I am afraid emotions are running to high in defense of these guys incarcerated. For sure Andy Hall and his followers can help finance a defence, but in the end if they are guilty then they should stop this Thailand bashing.

Pardon my stupidity but how can the post that you replied to be construed as Thailand bashing?

The post is not Thailand Bashing. Read it! I did not say the post was Thailand Bashing, you did!

[Number 3]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

What is sad JD is we spend our time here trying to enlighten people with facts and pointing out when somebody is saying something untrue or stating something unfounded as fact. The result is they don't want to hear it. We get called names and accused of being part of a conspiracy to name just a few things but we don't call names or get all emotionally crazed to the point of wanting to hide from facts. Yet, we are the ones in the wrong or being disruptive in their mind despite neither of us saying these folks should be executed or be sentenced for the crimes or anything along the lines except saying they should stand trial given the evidence that has been released. Posters here say we don't want the truth but we and a few others seem to be the only ones willing to point out the facts be it about this case, the law or how things work here or with other involved countries.

Why bloody quote me? Or am I the easy target cause I'm a women? I have put my point of view across like everyone else or is it cause I am female I'm not allowed a point of view?

All I said was SA not UK!

Thanks jdinasia for pointing out I should scroll down.

The problem with you is how put things across to other people it's all about scoring points not looking at both sides of the debate.

Happy to have a woman's input here.

Don't let these blokes put you off none. They're gooses.

[Johnsen]

There is no evidence to hold them for murder?

[freedom4life]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

Yes, and i say boycott Koh Tao for life. For the principal of it. To deny the criminal families their additional millions. To make a statement, and to provide David and Hannah some solidarity. It is a small price to pay. Tell everyone you know why it is best to avoid this crime infested, drug infested sewer of an island. I am never going back. Never.

Right. Anyway people...how could you even go to the island and enjoy the time spent there clearly knowing that two people were brutally murdered on/near the beach there? Could anyone explain that to me?

[DarloKnight]

Is that why you abuse so many on here....

So my avatar picture not a clue? Lol

Sorry I meant to quote jdinasia

Edited October 25, 2014 by DarloKnight

[DarloKnight]

All I have wanted is to see and hear both sides I admit I do not know the law in both countries when something like this happens. I also wanted to put my point of view across as a parent as I can feel for both sets of parents the accused and the victims.

[MJP]

A whole wheelbarrow load of off-topic posts have been removed. I have put them on the compost heap.

[retsdon]

Interestingly, there's quite a lot out there on the interpretation of DNA evidence. Seemingly it's not the infallible smoking gun that the general public would like to believe. 'Highly subjective' was the term used in one report, and in one case the DNA evidence used to secure a conviction in the States was subsequently sent to seventeen accredited experts. Only one put the convicted guy in the frame, twelve put him out of it, and the rest deemed the evidence to be inconclusive.

Seeing as DNA evidence would - aside from the now retracted confessions - appear to be pretty much all that the Thai police now have against the accused, maybe that's why the prosecution keep sending the case back to the police. Certainly the British Crown Prosecution state unequivocally that they will not bring a case to court on DNA evidence alone. It's too unreliable.

I thought it interesting anyway. A quick Google search on DNA reliability will throw up a load of links.

[Johnsen]

What's wrong with suggesting it would be unwise to visit koh toa with the possibility the murderers are still at large. Any sane man would tell you that we don't know for sure these 2 kids did it. I think that's very relevant to this discussion.

[Johnsen]

If they don't have DNA then they have nothing. I agree if there case was so conclusive it would not have been sent back twice. Strange thing is its been sent back yet the police have said they have closed their file....

[tattoodrob]

Not many people live in a village that has had 2 innocent people with smashed skulls (at least 1 anyway) by crazy people who did it just because they thought they could get away with it because they can and are it seems.......its not just what happened..2 murders but is actually the way it happened......if the burmese are guilty which has not been proved yet then ok the Island may be ok to visit but really who can go there and feel comfortable at this point when this evil deed has not been proved to be concluded......i for one dont believe they did it alone as 2 small guys killing 2 falangs seems very odd with all other points mentioned earlier like police saying they know who did it after first few days and have fled island(one at least) then changing to other stories(after actually receiving money),none of us know the truth as none of us were there BUT it is definitely mysterious due to conflicting reports!!! by Thai Police and with first hand knowledge of Thai Police then i am inclined not to believe a word from them.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Why bloody quote me? Or am I the easy target cause I'm a women? I have put my point of view across like everyone else or is it cause I am female I'm not allowed a point of view?

All I said was SA not UK!

Thanks jdinasia for pointing out I should scroll down.

The problem with you is how put things across to other people it's all about scoring points not looking at both sides of the debate.

My apologies that you took my post to be directed at you. I wasn't even thinking about you and was simply responding to JD responding to me and didn't consider you started the topic which I should have. On a side note, don't assume people are going to know or even think about your gender based on your avatar. I have my wife and daughter's picture as my avatar on other sites including Facebook.

[DarloKnight]

Why bloody quote me? Or am I the easy target cause I'm a women? I have put my point of view across like everyone else or is it cause I am female I'm not allowed a point of view?

All I said was SA not UK!

Thanks jdinasia for pointing out I should scroll down.

The problem with you is how put things across to other people it's all about scoring points not looking at both sides of the debate.

My apologies that you took my post to be directed at you. I wasn't even thinking about you and was simply responding to JD responding to me and didn't consider you started the topic which I should have. On a side note, don't assume people are going to know or even think about your gender based on your avatar. I have my wife and daughter's picture as my avatar on other sites including Facebook.

Apology accepted

[jabis]

Any more news on the son of the mafia guy?

You won't hear much about him, the village headman I'm sure has paid handsomely for his not being in the news. The person I want to know about is the bloody pommy, I think friend of the murdered couple, who fled the island in a big hurry and was leaving Thailand also, but remember he had the pants with blood on them, stashed in a bag, as not to be found by the cops or anyone else, did they ever do DNA on that blood, they said they interrogated him again, and he had major flaws in his testimony, Where is he now????

I read that he was cleared by the Thai police and that after testing, it was determined that it was not blood on the pants. There are numerous questions by many. We won't know many of the answers until it goes to trial.

You are correct. Police found what they thought was blood on the pants or shorts in his bag but after testing it turned out not to be blood. Of course conspiracy theorists were screaming prior to the testing that police planted the pants in his suitcase.

Actually the first head of investigation, Pol Lt.General Panya, stated that in a report Quote:

"As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller and the pair had been put in the victim's luggage by the first group of police officers."

(Source: The Nation / http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Killers-will-be-caught-30243629.html )

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not many people live in a village that has had 2 innocent people with smashed skulls (at least 1 anyway) by crazy people who did it just because they thought they could get away with it because they can and are it seems.......its not just what happened..2 murders but is actually the way it happened......if the burmese are guilty which has not been proved yet then ok the Island may be ok to visit but really who can go there and feel comfortable at this point when this evil deed has not been proved to be concluded......i for one dont believe they did it alone as 2 small guys killing 2 falangs seems very odd with all other points mentioned earlier like police saying they know who did it after first few days and have fled island(one at least) then changing to other stories(after actually receiving money),none of us know the truth as none of us were there BUT it is definitely mysterious due to conflicting reports!!! by Thai Police and with first hand knowledge of Thai Police then i am inclined not to believe a word from them.

I get your point but my guess is this incident will probably increase tourism there. Most people don't believe they will be a victim of a crime like this and people tend to understand bad peopleand things can be found anywhere. There would be desolate places all over the world if people didn't go there because a murder happened there and nobody had yet been convicted.

My reason for thinking tourism will increase is because it put the place on the map and now divers and others will consider a trip there. In the interim others may be hoping it will be less crowded now and others actually probably want to see the death location and other areas involved (a lot of people into this type of thing). I personally know two couples that have gone there (1 actually going next week) since the incident because they have never been and the publicity of the event brought it to their mind as a place to try.

Think Phuket and what has happened to tourism there since the Tsunami.

[MJP]

Not many people live in a village that has had 2 innocent people with smashed skulls (at least 1 anyway) by crazy people who did it just because they thought they could get away with it because they can and are it seems.......its not just what happened..2 murders but is actually the way it happened......if the burmese are guilty which has not been proved yet then ok the Island may be ok to visit but really who can go there and feel comfortable at this point when this evil deed has not been proved to be concluded......i for one dont believe they did it alone as 2 small guys killing 2 falangs seems very odd with all other points mentioned earlier like police saying they know who did it after first few days and have fled island(one at least) then changing to other stories(after actually receiving money),none of us know the truth as none of us were there BUT it is definitely mysterious due to conflicting reports!!! by Thai Police and with first hand knowledge of Thai Police then i am inclined not to believe a word from them.

I get your point but my guess is this incident will probably increase tourism there. Most people don't believe they will be a victim of a crime like this and people tend to understand bad peopleand things can be found anywhere. There would be desolate places all over the world if people didn't go there because a murder happened there and nobody had yet been convicted.

My reason for thinking tourism will increase is because it put the place on the map and now divers and others will consider a trip there. In the interim others may be hoping it will be less crowded now and others actually probably want to see the death location and other areas involved (a lot of people into this type of thing). I personally know two couples that have gone there (1 actually going next week) since the incident because they have never been and the publicity of the event brought it to their mind as a place to try.

Think Phuket and what has happened to tourism there since the Tsunami.

What?

[englishoak]

Not many people live in a village that has had 2 innocent people with smashed skulls (at least 1 anyway) by crazy people who did it just because they thought they could get away with it because they can and are it seems.......its not just what happened..2 murders but is actually the way it happened......if the burmese are guilty which has not been proved yet then ok the Island may be ok to visit but really who can go there and feel comfortable at this point when this evil deed has not been proved to be concluded......i for one dont believe they did it alone as 2 small guys killing 2 falangs seems very odd with all other points mentioned earlier like police saying they know who did it after first few days and have fled island(one at least) then changing to other stories(after actually receiving money),none of us know the truth as none of us were there BUT it is definitely mysterious due to conflicting reports!!! by Thai Police and with first hand knowledge of Thai Police then i am inclined not to believe a word from them.

I get your point but my guess is this incident will probably increase tourism there. Most people don't believe they will be a victim of a crime like this and people tend to understand bad peopleand things can be found anywhere. There would be desolate places all over the world if people didn't go there because a murder happened there and nobody had yet been convicted.

My reason for thinking tourism will increase is because it put the place on the map and now divers and others will consider a trip there. In the interim others may be hoping it will be less crowded now and others actually probably want to see the death location and other areas involved (a lot of people into this type of thing). I personally know two couples that have gone there (1 actually going next week) since the incident because they have never been and the publicity of the event brought it to their mind as a place to try.

Think Phuket and what has happened to tourism there since the Tsunami.

What?

Not many people choose or spend multi thousand of dollars on a holiday destination because of disasters or crimes they want to take a selfi at.

Are you for real or did you forget to take the meds this morning ?

Edited October 25, 2014 by MJP

[tattoodrob]

Not many people live in a village that has had 2 innocent people with smashed skulls (at least 1 anyway) by crazy people who did it just because they thought they could get away with it because they can and are it seems.......its not just what happened..2 murders but is actually the way it happened......if the burmese are guilty which has not been proved yet then ok the Island may be ok to visit but really who can go there and feel comfortable at this point when this evil deed has not been proved to be concluded......i for one dont believe they did it alone as 2 small guys killing 2 falangs seems very odd with all other points mentioned earlier like police saying they know who did it after first few days and have fled island(one at least) then changing to other stories(after actually receiving money),none of us know the truth as none of us were there BUT it is definitely mysterious due to conflicting reports!!! by Thai Police and with first hand knowledge of Thai Police then i am inclined not to believe a word from them.

I get your point but my guess is this incident will probably increase tourism there. Most people don't believe they will be a victim of a crime like this and people tend to understand bad peopleand things can be found anywhere. There would be desolate places all over the world if people didn't go there because a murder happened there and nobody had yet been convicted.

My reason for thinking tourism will increase is because it put the place on the map and now divers and others will consider a trip there. In the interim others may be hoping it will be less crowded now and others actually probably want to see the death location and other areas involved (a lot of people into this type of thing). I personally know two couples that have gone there (1 actually going next week) since the incident because they have never been and the publicity of the event brought it to their mind as a place to try.

Think Phuket and what has happened to tourism there since the Tsunami.

im not sure about that,of course bad stuff can happy everywhere but while this situation is not concluded then who wants to go to a small island that may have dispicable murderers still at large..i for one who live not too far from this island will never go there if this situation is not sorted,i was planning to go there at some point in the near future but will not give my money to any family that will get away with bludgeoning innocent people for there own gratification.If the Burma kids are 110% proved to be the real killers then of course it looks safer to visit which is precisely why they being used as someone has to be blamed as cant say they couldnt find the felons on a tiny island!!!

The real killers have obviously gotten away with nasty stuff before but this is beyond that and anyone who would go there especially because of this is stupid in my opinion and if anything happens to them then dont complain to no one!!!!

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not many people live in a village that has had 2 innocent people with smashed skulls (at least 1 anyway) by crazy people who did it just because they thought they could get away with it because they can and are it seems.......its not just what happened..2 murders but is actually the way it happened......if the burmese are guilty which has not been proved yet then ok the Island may be ok to visit but really who can go there and feel comfortable at this point when this evil deed has not been proved to be concluded......i for one dont believe they did it alone as 2 small guys killing 2 falangs seems very odd with all other points mentioned earlier like police saying they know who did it after first few days and have fled island(one at least) then changing to other stories(after actually receiving money),none of us know the truth as none of us were there BUT it is definitely mysterious due to conflicting reports!!! by Thai Police and with first hand knowledge of Thai Police then i am inclined not to believe a word from them.

I get your point but my guess is this incident will probably increase tourism there. Most people don't believe they will be a victim of a crime like this and people tend to understand bad peopleand things can be found anywhere. There would be desolate places all over the world if people didn't go there because a murder happened there and nobody had yet been convicted.

My reason for thinking tourism will increase is because it put the place on the map and now divers and others will consider a trip there. In the interim others may be hoping it will be less crowded now and others actually probably want to see the death location and other areas involved (a lot of people into this type of thing). I personally know two couples that have gone there (1 actually going next week) since the incident because they have never been and the publicity of the event brought it to their mind as a place to try.

Think Phuket and what has happened to tourism there since the Tsunami.

What?

You have never heard of tours of famous death scenes? such as http://dearlydepartedtours.com/ ... http://www.mydestination.com/london/tours/186498/insider-london-death-and-debauchery-tour ....

Or have not seen all the pictures on line of people taking photos of the death scene on the island or the simple fact that newspapers print this gory stuff because it sells?

Many people out there into this kind of thing as well as other strange things like touring scary places where ghosts are reported.