Police coy over new probe into Koh Tao murders

[dieseldave1951]

i think that this one is far to big to go under the radar

I would question the word Coy, more like egg all over their face , it isn't the first time and looking at the RTP exceptional talent it won't be the last by along shot, the worrying prospect is that any new inquiry will only be able to use the evidence available, that might be not enough in the eye's of experts , so they will just muddle about and crap on as usual and still either arrive at the same conclusion or dither till everyone forgets about the case and it goes under the radar like quite a few do.

[Frank James]

That picture alone would negate the possibility of a fair trial in any country in the world with a proper justice system.

What is it with the pictures of alleged offenders being paraded in front of the media, never seen anything quite like it in any other country.

Recall November 23, 1963, Dallas, TX, when suspected presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald is paraded before the press in a bizarre impromptu midnight "press conference."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaS-UV-BsdY

[retarius]

I read in the Guardian (UK) yesterday that the two arrested men complained that the cops threw petrol on them then threatened them with a cigarette lighter unless they confessed.

[Si Thea01]

<Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders> QUOTE

"Official" (like in paid) is the main word here!!

I have no idea if this occurred, (Officials Paid) as I have never been in any meetings with this man or any others, when such a situation could have allegedly occurred. You seem to be so sure, have you? Do you have any photos or direct evidence? If not, shut up, until you know for sure and then, if you have direct factual evidence, provide it to the relevant authorities.

Same applies to the DNA test. Until we know for sure that this has not been comprised, then stop the speculation. I'd hate to be on trial with some of your type on the jury. A fair and just result, don't think so.

Armchair investigators who base everything on assumptions and speculation and then cast aspersions on people they do not know. If it's ever proved that something like this occurred then I am prepared to apoligise but until we know for sure give this type of hype a break.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Si Thea01

[Dogmatix]

So far the Myanmar embassy has petitioned the Justice Ministry (the owner of the DSI) for a new investigation, the suspects have petitioned the DSI directly, the British government demanded and was permitted to send observers (although we may never hear anything of their findings), the NHCR has attempted to inititiate an investigation into allegations of torture by the police and the interpreter. The victims' parents also have the right to petition the DSI to investigate. In addition they can initiate a private civil case, although it is understandable that they might feel getting involved in such hassles would only make their grief and frustration worse.

Unfortunately under the current interim constitution and political structure options are somewhat more limited than is normal. The DSI chief now has to put new investigation decisions to its board which is controlled by the government and the Justice Minister is concurrently deputy army chief. The NHCR lost its power to prosecute with the dissolution of the 2007 constitution. So protection of human rights and what were already extremely limited checks and balances against the all powerful police are now very much up to the discretion of the current powers that be.

It will be interesting to see how far Myanmar is willing to push the case as, if all the parties interested in a new enquiry, they seem to hold the most persuasive cards at the moment. Myanmar probably needs the remittances from its workers in Thailand as much as Thailand needs their labour but it would probably be a good time for both countries to clean up the prevailing situation where at least half of the workers are illegal and exploitation and slavery are rampant. Myanmar closing its legitimate border crossings to labourers leaving without correct documentation would be a step in the right direction for improving labour conditions and would cause immediate pain to Thai employers who rely on the cheap undocumented labour as well as the police and other government officials who benefit from their under the table payments. Other countries, like Indonesia have done this (to Malaysia) following cases of abuse of domestic workers.

In the field of investment I think that Thailand needs Myanmar more than the other way round. Now that Myanmar has embarked on political reform there are many other countries that can replace Thailand's planned investments and also provide far superior original technology and training than Thailand's which almost exclusively second hand. Thailand has lost competitiveness due to its failure over decades to invest in R&D and education and is now the slowest growing economy in ASEAN. Meanwhile populist governments have created a Western style entitlement culture which the economy can't grow fast enough to support. Thailand desperately needs access to Myanmar for investment and trading to benefit from its faster growing economy and cheap labour on site. Cutting Thailand out of a few deals would make a huge impact. Let's see what Myanmar's resolve is like. After all it's only a short time since it started to exit from decades of military dictatorship and its journalists are still showing up in shallow graves.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Colabamumbai]

Well both Coy and Corruption start with Co.

[CapFarmer]

"Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders."

No it doesn't. It shows that he was not involved in any sexual misconduct.

Well not quite

It shows the evidence currently to hand doesn't implicate him in any sexual involvement

(notwithstanding of course any 'manipulation' of that evidence in the first place)

The only thing that the DNA test on Nom could have conclusively confirmed is paternity, and all we have is the father's word about that outcome.

The fact that the ranking police officers decided to stand with and be photographed with the my father for Nom while he conducted this media event probably ties their fate to the ability of all to keep these test results concealed and rely on the family's statements about what the results actually mean, which is nothing.

Edited November 6, 2014 by CapFarmer

[bikerbri]

Of course they are coy.... They all know it's a stitch up.

I am hoping this is going to escalate into an almighty political mess for Prayuth and the police chiefs.

I am starting to get a whiff of diplomatic turmoil over this, and all in the most public of situations.

The Guardian already reported that the UK Foreign Office have summoned the Thai consulate in London to convey their suspicions (concerns) that this whole investigation has been fudged to save tourism. They must be speaking from info received from the boys in blue that are over here 'observing' this farce.

I hope thew UK and Myanmar end up breaking all diplomatic ties with Thailand like Saudi did.... Great start to ASEAN AEC....... not.

They must be speaking from info received from the boys in blue that are over here 'observing' this farce.

The General states they have returned to Scotland Yard?

[mango66]

An interesting use of the word ''coy.''

1

1.

artfully or affectedly shy or reserved; slyly hesitant; coquettish.

2.

shy; modest.

3.

showing reluctance, especially when insincere or affected, to reveal one's

plans or opinions, make a commitment, or take a stand:

The mayor was coy about his future political aspirations.

4.

Archaic. disdainful; aloof.

Indeed the definition of the word ''coy'' in connection to the police farce force is somewhat apt with the exclusion of number 2 of course.

Interesting word indeed,

as special as every time native english posters always claim us non-brits for our " bad english ""

[CapFarmer]

I don't understand what the fuss is about.

These things always happened in Thailand, there have always been unsolved murders of Thais and Foreigners all over.

Some Farangs friends of mine on a motorbike have been deliberately hit by a pickup a few years back on Samui and nobody, thai police included, cared to investigate.

Farangs are just an income statistics and nobody really wants to know what happened to these murdered walking wallets (aren't we all?).

The bothering thing for Thailand is absolutely not the victims, their family nor the application and justice of the legal system.

The only problem is the tourism money lost by the PR turmoil. That means loss of billions of Baht this year.

Nothing compares to that by Thai standards so if there are DNA samples to test again, they surely have been swapped already and frankly I am quite impressed that the 2 scapegoats have not "committed suicide" yet.

You thought Thailand was the land of smile? you've not been here long have you?

I have seen many similar instances of police being unwilling to protect locals as well as foreigners from violence. The TOT media blitz to promote Thailand's safety is another form of the daily press brief by Baghdad Bob, AKA Comical Ali.

[mango66]

"Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders."

No it doesn't. It shows that he was not involved in any sexual misconduct.

It was never proofed, that he were not the user of the condom !

Maybee he were disturbed on his " rape with condom "

by the 2 myanmars - or some other guy,

so he " could not finish "" an explanation why " police say "

no DNA inside of the condom !!

[BirdsandBooze]

<Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders> QUOTE

"Official" (like in paid) is the main word here!!

I have no idea if this occurred, (Officials Paid) as I have never been in any meetings with this man or any others, when such a situation could have allegedly occurred. You seem to be so sure, have you? Do you have any photos or direct evidence? If not, shut up, until you know for sure and then, if you have direct factual evidence, provide it to the relevant authorities.

Same applies to the DNA test. Until we know for sure that this has not been comprised, then stop the speculation. I'd hate to be on trial with some of your type on the jury. A fair and just result, don't think so.

Armchair investigators who base everything on assumptions and speculation and then cast aspersions on people they do not know. If it's ever proved that something like this occurred then I am prepared to apoligise but until we know for sure give this type of hype a break.

Throughout the world it is ordinary people willing to question the official line that has prevented thousands of cases of miscarriage of justice. Not to question allows the Establishment free reign to do as it likes with people.

[CapFarmer]

I read in the Guardian (UK) yesterday that the two arrested men complained that the cops threw petrol on them then threatened them with a cigarette lighter unless they confessed.

The Thai version of Reservoir Dogs...

[iReason]

“..the national police chief had not ordered that the case be reopened.”

Why would he?

He showed his allegiance while sitting next to Worapan Tuwichien at that “DNA” sideshow.

“Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders.”

BS. Shows nothing of the kind.

[mommysboy]

If the DNA is a genuine match then that is rather damning evidence that no amount of complaint can answer.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[catweazle]

I'd be "coy" too if anyone wants to double check my underwear I shat and peed into while claiming that I never had diarrhea my whole life and that incontinence is a myth...

[Soutpeel]

Two people were brutally murdered and you all want to discuss it on social media like it is the latest soap, 80% of the commentators do not even live here(koh tao).

Most people don't live in Gazza either but that's always under discussion.

One could suggest if the RTP had done their jobs properly from the offset, and kept their mouths shut instead of all the announcements, posting photos of the victims on line, then there would not be half the discussion that has gone on, as there would be nothing really to discuss, so in some respects the media circus this has become is the RTP's own doing, they have turned this into a soap opera, no body else, you obviously have an agenda on TV which goes beyond discussions/debate as do a few others commenting who have vested interest and are part of the RTP Glee club

Hence your rather weak attempt at posting "Article 14 of the Computer Crime Act" in fact if you take this to the letter of the law, members of the RTP should have already been prosecuted under this.

but nice try all the same..

Edited November 6, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

If the DNA is a genuine match then that is rather damning evidence that no amount of complaint can answer.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The match may be genuine, but its matching to what ?...it appears the whole providence of the reference samples is under question

[balo]

I wish we now can forget the headmans son , and believe in the DNA test , and focus on other "evidence" and chase the real killers. The killers could have been immigrant workers, it could have been Thais , it could have been Asian tourists on the island.

We really dont know much after 3 months. Except that DNA match B2 and we need more testing done from the outside,

Edited November 6, 2014 by balo

[draftvader]

I have been involved with IT on a professional level my whole life.I love computers, but I hate the people who use them. People in the real world are so different.They tend to think before they speak. Most to check if what are they going to say will offend someone or affect something, most will shy away from saying it if that is about to happen. When people speak online the same is not true. Many studies have been done on this, and most developed countries now enforce laws to get rid of this ugly side of internet use.

Most people around the world recognise that this is a folly. If you are involved in computers you'll recognise the other side of this oppression. It pushes more people into dark corners to discuss their topics. In history this behaviour has shown itself again and again. Prohibition in the US pushed drinking underground and gave rise to a massive "speakeasy" culture. Have you thought through that name? Curious, isn't it? In fact prohibition allowed organised crime to flourish and create powerful syndicates as these clubs had policies to deny access to anybody involved in law enforcement. These syndicates took generations to break and have created many of our modern problems including the lobbyist hold on governments around the world.

Back to the now and we are seeing a similar thing happen online. Push harder and people just get more inventive. In the tech world it is a curious fact that the Pentagon has a policy of employing hackers to protect their systems. I have a good friend who worked in "security" at the Pentagon and was retired by 30. Basically put his personal development was stifled by policy and his employable lifespan was always limited. They pay accordingly. They employ these people because they are the best. Not necessarily "Ivy League" educated but highly intelligent and creative people. He was, naturally, replaced by a spotty youngster who, by now, will be out to pasture because the next batch are coming through. The ones you see in court? They said "No" or were just simply unemployable and dangerous. Even the authorities need the "darker" side of the internet to flourish.

The more that a country suppresses communication the more people will end up speaking out of earshot. It is counter-productive in the extreme and if the UK and the US struggle to monitor communication I have doubts that Thailand is capable. Sure they could trace users on here (to an IP address that could be shared by 10+ devices and as many people and could be claimed to have been hacked) but the legal process vs actual pay-out would be very expensive and time-consuming. The courts only have so much space. The international outcry over such a blanket bombing legal campaign would see it stopped in its tracks by those at the top before it crippled the country's economy. There is some ground in going after some of the big players but the small-fry making spurious comments? Very unlikely in reality.

Anyway, allow this "ugly side" to be suppressed and you'll suddenly wonder where your freedom went....by then it will be too late.

[elektrified]

more thai police work ..case closed ...NO ANSWERS

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2820905/Savagely-attacked-Thailand-betrayed-NatWest.html

Wow, that's shocking. Hadn't heard about that case. Was it covered by the news? What a horrible thing to happen to those ladies on the 1st night of their trip.

[Wombat6]

I am sure that the two Myanmar kids are "coy" aswell, with the prospect of the deathpenalty for a crime, they didn't commit!!

Please share the evidence you have that proves the accused are innocent Sherlock !!

[Alwyn]

"Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders."

No it doesn't. It shows that he was not involved in any sexual misconduct.

and that's assuming the DNA tests were kosher which most people (including me) doubt.

[goferman]

The village headman should keep his mouth shut and stop calling press conferences for his sons justice. He should be calling for open justice to the two murders that occured on his island and on his watch. Shows him in his true light.

Excellent point!

If the headman was truly a community leader, he'd be making that call instead of being so preoccupied with his own family!

Good leaders act on behalf of the community they represent and aren't seen acting in their own personal interests!!

[Krenjai]

"Official DNA test results have showed his son was not involved in the murders."

No it doesn't. It shows that he was not involved in any sexual misconduct.

It was never proofed, that he were not the user of the condom !

Maybee he were disturbed on his " rape with condom "

by the 2 myanmars - or some other guy,

so he " could not finish "" an explanation why " police say "

no DNA inside of the condom !!

I believe rapists in general do not use condoms, I believe the condom was deliberately planted there to make it look like David & Hannah were having sex before they were attacked. Since there was no DNA on the inside, one could conclude the condom was never used.

I also believe the position in which the body of Hannah was found confirms this cover up even further IMO. How can your legs be in that angle if you have just been killed? To orchestrate the sex story even more David was stripped naked (but they forgot one sock), so when David pulled off one sock he forget the second one? Yeah, sure! Didn't he have water in his lungs? The murder weapon on him was not the hoe, right? (No DNA). His wounds seem to confirm another weapon and it wasn't the wine bottle they never found the pancake translator brought into the charade.

The RTP also spoke about a third possible DNA, they also mentioned on the 23rd who they believed were the killers! You don't say something like that unless you are really sure. We all know what happened after that, a U-turn Shuffle, probably caused by the fact that suddenly it started to rain Thai Baht above Koh Tao that washed away the DNA samples previously collected, meaning all DNA evidence will now be discredited by Social Media users and nobody will ever believe anything anymore what the RTP will say about the KT murders.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Krenjai

[OPG]

Way to go Burma. UK take note.

Actually, now that you mention it, very true! You would have imagined that the UK would have taken a stronger stance on this matter, but they've been aloof. As a matter of fact, when is the last time anybody heard news of any kind on the Investigative Group sent to Thailand from the UK? I haven't heard a peep; are they still in Thailand or did they sneak back to the UK? It seems that the burden of these murders has been left to Myanmar and it's making headway.

I have to agree fully with your short and to the point statement:

"Way to go Burma. UK take note."

BRAVO!

Edited November 6, 2014 by OPG

[phuketandsee]

Andy Hall tweeted this yesterday:

"Samui Police to undertake further questioning of Zaw Lin/Win Zaw Tun Koh Tao case at Samui prison 2mrw 9am. Accused lawyers to be present".

Seems their case isn't as complete as they keep saying (and as we all know)

[iReason]

That picture alone would negate the possibility of a fair trial in any country in the world with a proper justice system.

What is it with the pictures of alleged offenders being paraded in front of the media, never seen anything quite like it in any other country.

Recall November 23, 1963, Dallas, TX, when suspected presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald is paraded before the press in a bizarre impromptu midnight "press conference."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaS-UV-BsdY

"I'm just a patsy"

Sounds familier...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmdb4xz-Dk

[sweatalot]

I wish we now can forget the headmans son , and believe in the DNA test , and focus on other "evidence" and chase the real killers. The killers could have been immigrant workers, it could have been Thais , it could have been Asian tourists on the island.

We really dont know much after 3 months. Except that DNA match B2 and we need more testing done from the outside,

"Except that DNA match B2 "

No we don't know this.

Did you see any proof?

Do you believe everything that the BIB claim?

[sprq]

But, But why would they re-open the ' perfect ' case and even the British observers said the investigation was carried out exactly as they would conducted it. Well that's the Thai version anyway.

Oh wait, the state prosecutors don't seem to be too happy.

What to do ? Decisions, decisions and making them isn't exactly a Thai thing.

As far as I know, the British police have not said a word about the case. Instead, Thai officials including the big chief himself have put words in their mouth.