Police coy over new probe into Koh Tao murders

[BritTim]

Actually, no. The RTP have stated they have the evidence but the prosecutor has rejected that three times.

No. The prosecution has asked for more. Again a far cry from rejecting the evidence submitted.

Can we agree that the prosecution "asking for further investigation and more evidence" three times suggests that the claim of the RTP of a "perfect investigation" might be open to question?

[jdinasia]

Actually, no. The RTP have stated they have the evidence but the prosecutor has rejected that three times.

No. The prosecution has asked for more. Again a far cry from rejecting the evidence submitted.

Can we agree that the prosecution "asking for further investigation and more evidence" three times suggests that the claim of the RTP of a "perfect investigation" might be open to question?

Absolutely, the investigation is flawed. Probably not fatally flawed though.

[stephen terry]

Thai prosecutors and Thai police work hand-in-hand, particularly in this case. Both groups want a conviction.

Even military brass want a conviction of the Burmese. They all essentially work under the self-appointed PM who is a general. So, it's the concerted weight of Thai officialdom, all straining to convict. I'm glad the Burmese have attorneys. I hope they and their attorneys don't wilt under the pressure. And there's still a possibility - we hear one morning the Burmese 'committed suicide.' That would provide a tidy way out for the Thai officialdom.

As for judges, well of course they're supposed to be objective, but come on, they can't help but be aware of (and affected by) the groundswell of concern for this case. They're human. It's not unheard of where a Thai judge has made a ruling he knows is not right, ...because of public or government pressure. It happened when a top judge ruled that Thaksin didn't hide assets, when it was clear to everyone he had. The judge later claimed he ruled the wrong way 'for the good of the country.' Maybe he didn't foresee (though if he asked me, I could have told him) ....his decision was actually worse for Thailand.

Whatever our opinions, it is very insensitive to suggest that the B2 have or will commit suicide. These guys are human beings. Be respectful, please.

[jdinasia]

Reported where? Samples taken by a hospital employee..

Ha! I beat you to that one...

The RTP gave the original DNA samples to the Headman to keep in his fridge. He supplied the DNA samples to the RTP for the media to 'prove' his son was innocent. This has been reported, and I'm nor going to troll back for proof. Up to you, believe it or not. But if anyone still believes that the B2 are guilty watch this re-enactment scene. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-suspects-reenact-4370944

I have never seen a report stating that the crime scene DNA was stored in the headmans fridge.

I have seen the reenactments

JD - it came out in more than one report on this latest test that samples were kept in the headman's fridge. Of course it could be untrue, and I accept that. But it could also be true, and logical given the crime scene location.

Reports where?

I think I have read all the legit news sources on the murders, and do not remember seeing what you claim. Perhaps you read it on csila?

Was it in the UK or Thai press?

[Local Drunk]

@ JD... JD you're correct. My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience. Indeed an indictment is possible, but I can't see it happening.

[BritTim]

Can we agree that the prosecution "asking for further investigation and more evidence" three times suggests that the claim of the RTP of a "perfect investigation" might be open to question?

Absolutely, the investigation is flawed. Probably not fatally flawed though.

My own view, with the police repeatedly saying the investigation is finished and in the hands of the prosecutors while the prosecutors have repeatedly said they are not satisfied, is that a successful prosecution of the two Burmese kids is unlikely. Time will tell. (I also, unlike you, believe it improbable that the Burmese accused are guilty.)

If the two Burmese are released, the chances of solving the crime probably rely on non RTP sources providing strong evidence as to the culprits. I am pessimistic, but not without hope.

[stephen terry]

Whatever. We can bat a ball around forever without knowing anything except what has been revealed on RTP reports. Which are contradictory. On the balance of submissions, including the re-enactment and the latest: The implication is that the three times rejection suggests that there is not enough proof to indict. would indicate that more investigation is needed.

[love1012]

If these two clerks are really guilty than I am Santa Clause.

.....and I am Mrs Clause!!

[StealthEnergiser]

Does anybody know where this info has come from about the DNA being stored in the headmans fridge ?

[Bleacher Bum East]

@ JD... JD you're correct. My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience. Indeed an indictment is possible, but I can't see it happening.

"My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience."

Hmmmm, if that meme is picked up on these threads, you guys will never hear the end of it.

Som nam na . . .

[love1012]

Reported where? Samples taken by a hospital employee..

Ha! I beat you to that one...

The RTP gave the original DNA samples to the Headman to keep in his fridge. He supplied the DNA samples to the RTP for the media to 'prove' his son was innocent. This has been reported, and I'm nor going to troll back for proof. Up to you, believe it or not. But if anyone still believes that the B2 are guilty watch this re-enactment scene. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-suspects-reenact-4370944

I have never seen a report stating that the crime scene DNA was stored in the headmans fridge.

I have seen the reenactments

JD - it came out in more than one report on this latest test that samples were kept in the headman's fridge. Of course it could be untrue, and I accept that. But it could also be true, and logical given the crime scene location.

Reports where?

I think I have read all the legit news sources on the murders, and do not remember seeing what you claim. Perhaps you read it on csila?

another fantasy police police police post from the unproven mafia apologist!!

[jdinasia]

If these two clerks are really guilty than I am Santa Clause.

.....and I am Mrs Clause!!

Congratulations on your marriage

[stephen terry]

@ JD... JD you're correct. My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience. Indeed an indictment is possible, but I can't see it happening.

I don't think it will happen now that it's very much high profile. Maybe in the past, but not now. Of course the RTP, prosecutors and judge could be persuaded it's for the 'good of Thailand' to convict but I hope that mentality is not current.

On the other hand...

[stephen terry]

Does anybody know where this info has come from about the DNA being stored in the headmans fridge ?

Logically, where else are you going to store it? It came out when the headman supplied the samples for his son's comparison, paid by him. Read the reports. What bothers me most is that he focuses on his son's innocence instead of identifying the murderers, which he must have knowledge of if it wasn't his son,

[jdinasia]

Does anybody know where this info has come from about the DNA being stored in the headmans fridge ?

Logically, where else are you going to store it? It came out when the headman supplied the samples for his son's comparison, paid by him. Read the reports. What bothers me most is that he focuses on his son's innocence instead of identifying the murderers, which he must have knowledge of if it wasn't his son,

Logically? The police that came in from Samui that day took the samples with them. Earlier you said it was in the early reports. Now you say it was in the last week?

You still are avoiding answering a very simple question. Where was this reported? I can find no reference in ANY legitimate source. Hasn't even been mentioned on TVF by the usual conspiracy theorists. So,... Source?

Edit - "which he must have knowledge of" is both another conspiracy theory and a straw man

Edited November 6, 2014 by jdinasia

[CharlieH]

off topic post removed

[heyexile]

Be wary of the fanatic RTP and Military regime apologist collaborators. They are not all suffering divemasters.. Some may well be fanatical cyberscouts directly working for the state. It is, to them, vitally important to repress dissent, however mild and wherever it originates, Any sane voice they can silence is a sick victory.

I have recently had my phone and computer hacked and received thinly veiled threats. You are not beyond the reach of a messianic military power with huge resources and evil eager hounds.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Goebbels, Reichs Minister for Propaganda and National Enlightenment

Of course the p...ks are coy about their latest lie/new probe.

[stephen terry]

Does anybody know where this info has come from about the DNA being stored in the headmans fridge ?

Logically, where else are you going to store it? It came out when the headman supplied the samples for his son's comparison, paid by him. Read the reports. What bothers me most is that he focuses on his son's innocence instead of identifying the murderers, which he must have knowledge of if it wasn't his son,

Logically? The police that came in from Samui that day took the samples with them. Earlier you said it was in the early reports. Now you say it was in the last week?

You still are avoiding answering a very simple question. Where was this reported? I can find no reference in ANY legitimate source. Hasn't even been mentioned on TVF by the usual conspiracy theorists. So,... Source?

Sorry, JD, it was reported at the time the DNA results of the Headman's son. I don't make things up, as you know. It was on this site. Whether it is true or not neither of us can say different. What I believe is neither here nor there, but it does sound plausible given the logistics.

[jdinasia]

You are still avoiding answering. I am left to conclude that it was a csila conspiracy theory.

[JOC]

IF:

The DNA tests from the victim followed all the right procedures from swab to testresult and

the DNA tests from the Myanmar guys followed all the right procedures from swab to testresult

and if it was a match

WHY

don't the prosecutor get on with it?? Why keep sending the case back to the police? Don't give me any cr*p about, he wants a watertight case. A DNA-match is a slam dunk!! (If correctly performed)!

[stephen terry]

You are still avoiding answering. I am left to conclude that it was a csila conspiracy theory.

You will find it here. Somewhere. As I said before, please harass others that are not so informed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/773084-dna-results-from-ko-tao-village-heads-son-dont-match-traces-on-slain-british-tourists/page-25#entry8621429

[JOC]

Be wary of the fanatic RTP and Military regime apologist collaborators. They are not all suffering divemasters.. Some may well be fanatical cyberscouts directly working for the state. It is, to them, vitally important to repress dissent, however mild and wherever it originates, Any sane voice they can silence is a sick victory.

I have recently had my phone and computer hacked and received thinly veiled threats. You are not beyond the reach of a messianic military power with huge resources and evil eager hounds.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Goebbels, Reichs Minister for Propaganda and National Enlightenment

Of course the p...ks are coy about their latest lie/new probe.

Meanwhile....................On Planet Earth..................

[jdinasia]

You are still avoiding answering. I am left to conclude that it was a csila conspiracy theory.

You will find it here. Somewhere. As I said before, please harass others that are not so informed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/773084-dna-results-from-ko-tao-village-heads-son-dont-match-traces-on-slain-british-tourists/page-25#entry8621429

I certainly don't see it there. It is not in the actual reports. Probably in a deleted post due to being sourced from a rumor mongering / conspiracy theory site.

Thank you for trying, but it remains simply rumor mongering.

[stephen terry]

IF:

The DNA tests from the victim followed all the right procedures from swab to testresult and

the DNA tests from the Myanmar guys followed all the right procedures from swab to testresult

and if it was a match

WHY

don't the prosecutor get on with it?? Why keep sending the case back to the police? Don't give me any cr*p about, he wants a watertight case. A DNA-match is a slam dunk!! (If correctly performed)!

While I completely agree with you, DNA evidence on its own is not enough evidence to indict a suspect, The UK will not prosecute on DNA evidence alone, because it's not perfect proof. The B2 will be released and so will any other suspect that keeps shtum. More the pity.

[phuketandsee]

BP reporting the prosecutors will decide in one month whether to indict the Burmese. What more can they possibly find out? Outrageous!

[stephen terry]

BP reporting the prosecutors will decide in one month whether to indict the Burmese. What more can they possibly find out? Outrageous!

Back-pedalling.

[thailandchilli]

@ JD... JD you're correct. My opinion is speculation, but it's speculation that is speculated from a lifetime of experience. Indeed an indictment is possible, but I can't see it happening.

I don't think it will happen now that it's very much high profile. Maybe in the past, but not now. Of course the RTP, prosecutors and judge could be persuaded it's for the 'good of Thailand' to convict but I hope that mentality is not current.

On the other hand...

I also don't think they will convict these 2. I have doubts that it will even reach court and if it does it will be thrown out by the judges at least thats my hope and what you would expect from any developed country.

The failings of the investigation from the ground up have been farcical, no leadership and absolutely no comprehension of how an investigation should actually be carried out. The mistakes made so severe that any evidence brought before the court would be completely disregarded in light of all the failings. Any newly qualified defense lawyer would have a field day on this one.

I really hope Thailand does not put itself in this situation, it will do enormous damage to its already diminished reputation.

As for finding the real killers? Unless the UK police managed to get any of the murderers DNA from the bodies which I guess is unlikely then we may have to accept that the real killers will not be brought to justice unless they confess or new evidence emerges from witnesses, phone or other. Its all possible if a new and transparent investigation is carried out.

If that were to happen then by all means question the 2 Burmese suspects again and treat them as you would any other suspects that you identify so long as this time its carried out professionally.

Yea I'm dreaming but at the end of the day its about as bad as you can get with this case. The RTP has shown itself to be without morals or any form of transparency. Can it redeem itself, maybe but whos going to lead that transformation, the current boss has put a massively disproportionate to salary amount of money he's just invested in a company, what does that tell you?

For those that criticize and call us conspiracy theroists. B.S. Your scared about something or you have something to lose. If it was not for the public outcry and united display of disbelief from the world over this, the RTP would have already convicted these 2 Burmese on the tainted evidence that they have now.

We stand side by side to call for justice. The family of the victims promoted the signing of the 100,000 petition which implies they are very concerned with the investigation. Thailand now do your bit, show us you can stand up to corruption and human rights.

[hughben]

Meanwhile, Worapan Tuwichien - the village head of Moo 1 of Tambon Koh Tao, and the owner of a bar on the island - said he planned to hold another press conference to call for justice after his son was implicated in the case by social-media users.

Oh, so he too doesn't believe the two Burmese patsies are guilty. Very nice of him to join the fight.

[stephen terry]

You are still avoiding answering. I am left to conclude that it was a csila conspiracy theory.

You will find it here. Somewhere. As I said before, please harass others that are not so informed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/773084-dna-results-from-ko-tao-village-heads-son-dont-match-traces-on-slain-british-tourists/page-25#entry8621429

I certainly don't see it there. It is not in the actual reports. Probably in a deleted post due to being sourced from a rumor mongering / conspiracy theory site.

Thank you for trying, but it remains simply rumor mongering.

Actually it is there on several posts. I do not encourage or support rumour-mongering. As I said before, whether I believe it or not is unproven, but it does seem plausible given the number of available fridges on the island close to AC bar. Give it a rest JD, and go on harass less informative posters.

[CapFarmer]

If these two clerks are really guilty than I am Santa Clause.

.....and I am Mrs Clause!!

I'm an elf.