I am not convinced that the boys are innocent or guilty but the more the prosecution makes it difficult to get a fair trial the more I lean to them being innocent.

The police and prosecution have no one to blame but themselves for the anger and mistrust revolving around this case. However, it could be people in higher positions calling the shots.

This entire situation is sad !

Thats right. If the case was so solid, why the need for dirty tactics. The prosecutors seem not interested in guilt or innocence , only in winning.

I found that in my case also,when i was falsely convicted.

"Falsely convicted".... Well at least I know why you lean the way you do.

maybe she meant falsely charged.

Pushing up the trial date is completely unconscionable.

The trial will take quite some time.

Yeah, it will and so what ! So why move it up ? Because it will take quite some time ? Sorry, I do not understand.

Starting the process shows that they are taking the case seriously.

The defendants have indeed been in jail for awhile,

Andy Hall, a British activist who works with Burmese migrants in Thailand and has been assisting the defence team, said the lack of access to the prosecution case made the task of compiling the defence “almost impossible”.

He said: “Our team are confused about what evidence the prosecution have. We don’t know anything but media speculation. We’ll only know at the time we submit our own evidence. It’s an impossible situation – how do you prepare when you don’t know the case against you? That’s a principle of criminal justice, that you need to know the case against you to defend yourself.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

Challenging? Thats quite the understatement.

The prosecution will have the entire defense case next week.

Last week they were formally charged with beating the Britons to death with a garden hoe, and raping Witheridge, and face possible execution. According to Nakhon Chompuchat, the lawyer leading the defence case, the start of the trial has now been brought forward from 25 February to 26 December, with the court on Koh Samui, the larger island near Koh Tao, demanding the full defence case be lodged in the next week, by 18 December.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

I don't blame the defendants for trying to wring sympathy out of people wherever they can. However, there really is nothing ASSK can do. This is just media hype.

Sadly their lawyer is leading them down the wrong path in trying to try the case in the public. He should be focused on explaining how his clients semen got into the victim. If this has ever been addressed or denied I have not heard it. All I hear is them asking for help from people who cannot help them ... that is what their lawyer is for.

How strong is the trail of evidence that proves that their semen got into the victim? This is the key to the whole case.

Typically, as soon as there are any grounds for questioning the RTP's and the prosecutor's handling of the case, JD and JTJ, the most prominent RTP shills, come racing to defend the indefensible.

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

You seem genuinely confused about this. The accused have a right to know the details of the case against them in order that they can prepare . That has not been afforded to them, at least not in a timely or meaningful manner. This is their RIGHT, BASIC RIGHT...in the Thai jurisdiction as much as any other.

I do not understand why we have not heard anything from the British.

If there has been anything said by the British investigation team or any other British entity I would like to read it .

Cheers

Pushing up the trial date is completely unconscionable.

The trial will take quite some time.

Yeah, it will and so what ! So why move it up ? Because it will take quite some time ? Sorry, I do not understand.

Starting the process shows that they are taking the case seriously.

The defendants have indeed been in jail for awhile,

Sorry I promised my self not to post after your comment, but I guess I can't stand your illogical mind. Then why did the prosecutor take so long to indict the two. They know it's a difficult case so they took a lot of time. But for the defender it's not a difficult case?

Are we talking about the same case here? At least give them the same amount of time as the prosecutor have to build up the case. Which I think the judge did. But some how it got moved up? Now that just adds one more fuel to the fire for those who believe that these guys will never get a fair trial. And many posting here, like me want them to have a chance at a fair trial. I guess some don't.

I do not understand why we have not heard anything from the British.

If there has been anything said by the British investigation team or any other British entity I would like to read it .

Cheers

This is as much as it's currently known about the findings of the UK team that came to observe the case:

UK detectives travelled to Thailand last month to observe and review the murder case of our precious Daughter Hannah, and also that of David Miller. We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.

Since their return we have been able to meet with these officers together with our family liaison officers to learn about the investigation. There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us. We respect the need for such detail not to be shared publically before Royal Thai Police start their trial process.

We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage. Current news reporting is causing undue distress to our family.

"We pay obedience to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, our parents and our teachers."

mhhh, what did the first 3 ever do for them in life ???

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

You seem genuinely confused about this. The accused have a right to know the details of the case against them in order that they can prepare . That has not been afforded to them, at least not in a timely or meaningful manner. This is their RIGHT, BASIC RIGHT...in the Thai jurisdiction as much as any other.

They do have the right to the general details of the evidence, agreed. Since you think that I am confused; please explain to me when they must get the specific details and what is required to be revealed? The same question for the defense, when must they reveal the specific details to the prosecution?

For those that follow the RTP and Thai Judicial line of take it to trial...........

This case is far from being resolved, the international concerns of the B2 getting a fair trial, the international concerns of the corruption involved including tainted evidence all would lead any reasonable person to conclude that this is not happening. Unless you are personally convinced the B2 are guilty and have in your own mind already played judge in the case, then there is a real possibility that the evil killers are still on the loose. This cannot be denied by anyone.

Koh Tao should be avoided at all costs while this remains unsolved.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

You seem genuinely confused about this. The accused have a right to know the details of the case against them in order that they can prepare . That has not been afforded to them, at least not in a timely or meaningful manner. This is their RIGHT, BASIC RIGHT...in the Thai jurisdiction as much as any other.

Unfortunately, Prbkk this is not a basic right to the accused. Scary!

Effective pre-trial discovery concepts and procedures are unknown in Thailand, as is declaratory relief. Subpoenae duces tecum (summons) are available to force an opposing party to produce documents.

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/ressources/courts-in-thailand.html

I don't blame the defendants for trying to wring sympathy out of people wherever they can. However, there really is nothing ASSK can do. This is just media hype.

And of course your the expert!

And that you haven't put "your own spin"on this from day 1.

"Thay did it" "Their guilty"!

You have already convicted them and excuated them.

Why would anyone, in their right mind ever visit this scummy island ever again?? So many other places to go.

Agreed that the system is challenging, but the prosecution also lacks knowledge of the defense.

You seem genuinely confused about this. The accused have a right to know the details of the case against them in order that they can prepare . That has not been afforded to them, at least not in a timely or meaningful manner. This is their RIGHT, BASIC RIGHT...in the Thai jurisdiction as much as any other.

They do have the right to the general details of the evidence, agreed. Since you think that I am confused; please explain to me when they must get the specific details and what is required to be revealed? The same question for the defense, when must they reveal the specific details to the prosecution?

The same question for the defense, when must they reveal the specific details to the prosecution?

18 December.

I don't blame the defendants for trying to wring sympathy out of people wherever they can. However, there really is nothing ASSK can do. This is just media hype.

You are a real fine piece of work these boys are trying to get help you don't know if they are guilty there is a massive chance they are innocent can't you keep your disrespectfulul narrow minded gutter comments to yourself.

Well said.....

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meanwhile another party at the AC Bar last night and another farang beaten up there by three Thais and hospitalised off the island this morning- a first hand eye witness account!!

Please share more details on this

I dont know the cause but three guys in AC bar took out one farang last night because something was said. The man was taken off the island by boat this morning. I heard this from someone on the island who was at the bar last night. The same source said there was also trouble there on Saturday night

You might want to check out the credibility of your source if they claim there was trouble in AC bar on Saturday night. AC bar only re -opened for high season 2 days ago on tuesday 9th december. If they were in a bar where there was trouble last night & saturday night then it cant have been AC bar. Some of the gossip on koh tao is as crazy as on the internet & doesn't carry any more credibility just because people are on the island.

Looking for support from the public.

A lot of us are also deeply concerned with both the timing and the way in which the FCO issued statements from the parents. We have clear legal authorities in the UK saying that if the FCO did this for a UK criminal case, it would be a clear case of 'contempt of court' and hence unlawful.

Please if you have a minute, and agree with our approach, then copy and paste the following message, or write your own, and email it to[email protected]

“We ask the Foreign Commonwealth Office to please release all evidence collected by the UK authorities into the investigation of the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller to the Thai defense team of Mr Nakhon Chompuchat. This should include all evidence collected by UK investigators during their visit to Koh Tao, as well as all evidence from their own interviews with UK based witnesses and the UK autopsy reports of David and Hannah. The legal defense team of Nakhon Chompuchat has reported its dissatisfaction with the lack of transparent and full cooperation from the FCO and British authorities to their requests for assistance to ensure a fair trial for the accused. We believe the current actions of the FCO to be unacceptable and demand all evidence be made available to the defence team in accordance with UK legal standards.”

Change.org

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I dont know the cause but three guys in AC bar took out one farang last night because something was said. The man was taken off the island by boat this morning. I heard this from someone on the island who was at the bar last night. The same source said there was also trouble there on Saturday night

You might want to check out the credibility of your source if they claim there was trouble in AC bar on Saturday night. AC bar only re -opened for high season 2 days ago on tuesday 9th december. If they were in a bar where there was trouble last night & saturday night then it cant have been AC bar. Some of the gossip on koh tao is as crazy as on the internet & doesn't carry any more credibility just because people are on the island.

Welcome to Thaivisa, please be warned that due to recent increases in the level of recreational outrage in the environment, requests to limit gossip and use credible sources are bound to be met with extreme hostility.

I don't blame the defendants for trying to wring sympathy out of people wherever they can. However, there really is nothing ASSK can do. This is just media hype.

of course it is. the cards are stacked against the accused. they have to play whatever cards they have.

shame on the thai 'justice' system.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Jdinasia she can help, she is very influential & the Thai monarchy have welcomed her as have the politicians. She has a lot of omf on the international platform , she cud also pay for their defence

IMHO, it is a fake letter forced out of them when in captivity.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Clearly a call for a trial. Even with your change of emphasis it is powerful and convincing.

The other family clearly asks for an end to the speculation. They also stated that the UK police briefed them on evidence not available to the general public.

Here's a take on the integrity of the police farce force here what a history.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509/not-saving-thailands-face-the-backlash-of-police-corruption-in-the-murders-of-tourists/

Shame on you Thailand! Shame! Everyone knows who really did it.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

This will be the never ending story I suspect...just like the trio in the US (Memphis Three) who have the support of all sorts of media clingons supporting them.

Here's a take on the integrity of the police farce force here what a history.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509/not-saving-thailands-face-the-backlash-of-police-corruption-in-the-murders-of-tourists/

.

And the author makes a valid point:

Being that 99.9% of observers around the world believe the Burmese are being railroaded all the way to execution, if they are convicted it will not, as Thai officials erroneously and ignorantly believe, revitalize Thailand's tourist industry. Rather it will further, and likely severely, damage it for years to come.

Decent people should hope so.