Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

[Dibbler]

Put on dark sunglasses and start speaking Thai to the people selling tickets at the park gate and you will get in for the Thai price. I haven't ever paid a farang price to get into a park in 25 years of visiting Thai parks

[cumgranosalum]

Put on dark sunglasses and start speaking Thai to the people selling tickets at the park gate and you will get in for the Thai price. I haven't ever paid a farang price to get into a park in 25 years of visiting Thai parks

you will now!

[cumgranosalum]

NPs aren't mans tested - basically it doesn't make sense as whether they can afford it or not ,it's a slap in the face for visitors and yet another bit of bad publicity for Thailand.

[hawker9000]

A: charging on the basis of nationality is discriminatory.

B; Discriminstory does not mean racism is involved.

C:Nothing wrong with my education or income.

D: Despite your desperation for my point to mean Thais should pay 400 baht nothing I have said indicates this. Nothing at all.

if you say "discrimination based on nationality" that is literally the definition of racism, so yes by definition you are claiming racism

when you say you want Thais to pay the same as everyone else that is the indication that you want them to pay the same as everyone else which is 400 Baht

" "discrimination based on nationality" that is literally the definition of racism"

'Have to disagree (unless you subscribe to the theory that repeating something often enough makes it true). "Nationality" and "race" are simply not the same thing. Blacks, Hispanics, American Indians, among others in the U.S., would probably disagree pretty loudly with you... However, I actually don't think discrimination needs to be "racial discrimination" to be wrong. ... OR to be unacceptable or even antagonistic to those being discriminated AGAINST.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Under British law it would not be discrimination if all factors were the same.

Bear in mid the 2 groups that we are talking about are fairly easy to describe in this case

1. Thai nationals

2. Visitors to Thailand

That isn't t groups though, is it?

The guys at the park entrance charge according to this grouping.

1. Brown people

2. Black & White people

Which would count as discrimination in every country of the world.

[Robby nz]

Under British law it would not be discrimination if all factors were the same.

Bear in mid the 2 groups that we are talking about are fairly easy to describe in this case

1. Thai nationals

2. Visitors to Thailand

That isn't t groups though, is it?

The guys at the park entrance charge according to this grouping.

1. Brown people

2. Black & White people

Which would count as discrimination in every country of the world.

You have seen this personally have you, with the color chart they have hanging up to help them decide ?

[chang1]

This may or may not be discrimination depending on which countries law you are judging it on. It only applies to non residents so I presume that is not discrimination in Thailand. As I am a visitor they can do what they want and it is up to me if I pay or go elsewhere.

The big problem is that it is perceived by tourists to be a very discriminatory/racist act against a non Asian minority. So, although it is legal, people will find it offensive, even if it does not affect them. In the UK we have had it drummed into us that you can never treat a minority worse than the majority. This applies to any group or individual of a race, religion, hair colour, language skills, singing ability, hearing ability etc. etc.

If my wife tried to charge non residents 10 times (using the logic visitors have more money) what UK residents pay in her restaurant she would make all the papers. Then there would be the practical problems of proving customers residential status. If she only asked for proof from non whites all hell would brake out as it would be seen as extremely racist.

Thailand can keep the 2 tier charges but should also think about the damage it does to tourism as well - not going to happen with their live for today attitude to money.

Why should farang residents be given the "discount" when they can just as easily afford 400 Baht as a tourist can? Maybe the rules should be that you have been resident for 80% of your life - that should be a legal way to fleece more farang.

In short it may be legal but most tourists will see it as discrimination and/or racist.

Under British law it would not be discrimination if all factors were the same.

Bear in mid the 2 groups that we are talking about are fairly easy to describe in this case

1. Thai nationals

2. Visitors to Thailand

as a group, group 2 are only in Thailand under immigration laws that require them to have specified funds for their stay, those specifications mean that the majority of them have significantly more money then the majority of group 1.

This discussion is particularly about national parks not private businesses

and the test is "would one of these groups be excluded if they were both charged the full price of 400 Baht?"

I doubt the majority of visitors to the UK are going to have 10 times the available funds as the majority of UK residents but I don't know that for sure and am not about to research it.

I also doubt there is any laws in the UK dictating what price your wife charges or who she gives discounts too, and if she cooked up any left over food and gave it to the poor she would be seen as a hero rather then someone over charging people because she can afford to give away the same food.

I can't speak for all tourists but the ones that I have interacted with generally don't begrudge the Thais getting Thai prices and would think that crying over what equates to $15 to enter a National park a petty complaint.

I am not worried about if it is legal or not, the point I am trying to make is that, I think, people find it offensive to be charged 10x more than what the majority of people pay.

You say the test is "would one of these groups be excluded if they were both charged the full price of 400 Baht?"

I am saying the test is "would one of these groups feel they are being ripped off by being charged 10x the residents price of 40 Baht?"

Very few people object to discounts for disadvantaged minorities but in the UK, trading standards would soon be called in if other minorities were charged excessively higher than the majority. it is not a discount if it is the normal price, ie. what the majority pay.

We obviously move in different circles as I have never met anyone not annoyed by double pricing when they get charged the higher price. $15 may be petty to you but to a normal family of 4, who have saved all year for their holiday, $60 can be a big deal and so may be unable to afford it and thus be excluded. If 10x works this year why not 20x next year.

The only time I have seen anything like this in Europe was in Amsterdam in the early 80s. At the entrance to a live sex show there was a price list. Different flags down the left, prices on the right. Not sure but I think the order was Japan at the top then USA then Germany then France and at the bottom was the Union Jack. Each had a different price. I expect you can all guess which way the prices went. I do not know who should be offended the most but at the time I felt very smug.

[Kasset Tak]

I just want to put a perspective comparing for us and Thai traveling.

My friends just finished their applications for tourist visas to US, my friends sister is married and lives there with her children and they are all neutralized citizens.

My friends got a clear "NO" from US embassy. They embassy worker told them that 600,000Baht in the bank is not enough money for a visa and they believe that they will go to US and work as they are not employed, my friends have a pharmacy (my friends wife is retired nurse) and a pig farm with 1200 pigs. But they are not employed!

For a US citizen to go to Thailand all he need is the money for his ticket and 20,000 Baht if they ask on arrival.

My friends spent more than 20,000 Baht just for their visa applications!

[outboard]

A: charging on the basis of nationality is discriminatory.

B; Discriminstory does not mean racism is involved.

C:Nothing wrong with my education or income.

D: Despite your desperation for my point to mean Thais should pay 400 baht nothing I have said indicates this. Nothing at all.

if you say "discrimination based on nationality" that is literally the definition of racism, so yes by definition you are claiming racism

when you say you want Thais to pay the same as everyone else that is the indication that you want them to pay the same as everyone else which is 400 Baht

" "discrimination based on nationality" that is literally the definition of racism"

'Have to disagree (unless you subscribe to the theory that repeating something often enough makes it true). "Nationality" and "race" are simply not the same thing. Blacks, Hispanics, American Indians, among others in the U.S., would probably disagree pretty loudly with you... However, I actually don't think discrimination needs to be "racial discrimination" to be wrong. ... OR to be unacceptable or even antagonistic to those being discriminated AGAINST.

refer to this post -: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/797324-thai-national-parks-ordered-to-charge-foreigners-tenfold/page-30#entry9071912

your disagreement is irrelevant, it is clear that the definition of racism includes discrimination based on nationality according to international law

all my posts are supported by fact that has been posted in this thread

so if you are going to make a claim that something I have posted is incorrect please support it with some evidence other then "because you said so" or because "you thought it"

there is no discussion of my opinion in this thread as I have not shared my opinion,

[metisdead]

A pointless bickering session with no issues being resolved between the same 2 members has been removed.

[Neeranam]

Some Thais have to show their IDs.

Fair enough, some Thais resident in Florida have to show their residency in Florida to get their cheap price into Disney Land, or is it DisneyWorld.

When my daughter goes to study in Scotland she'll have to pay a lot more than locals AND she has UK citizenship! That shouldn't be allowed and is discrimination.

When we went to see the ghost at Crathes castle in Scotland 2 years ago, we got a reduced local price as my Aunt lives 5 km from it and is a church member.

Thais should ave the right to have local reduction, the same as anywhere.

[chang1]

Some Thais have to show their IDs.

Fair enough, some Thais resident in Florida have to show their residency in Florida to get their cheap price into Disney Land, or is it DisneyWorld.

When my daughter goes to study in Scotland she'll have to pay a lot more than locals AND she has UK citizenship! That shouldn't be allowed and is discrimination.

When we went to see the ghost at Crathes castle in Scotland 2 years ago, we got a reduced local price as my Aunt lives 5 km from it and is a church member.

Thais should ave the right to have local reduction, the same as anywhere.

You seem to be arguing for both sides in the same post.

Thais should be able to discriminate but Scots should not.

[outboard]

A: charging on the basis of nationality is discriminatory.

B; Discriminstory does not mean racism is involved.

C:Nothing wrong with my education or income.

D: Despite your desperation for my point to mean Thais should pay 400 baht nothing I have said indicates this. Nothing at all.

if you say "discrimination based on nationality" that is literally the definition of racism, so yes by definition you are claiming racism

when you say you want Thais to pay the same as everyone else that is the indication that you want them to pay the same as everyone else which is 400 Baht

" "discrimination based on nationality" that is literally the definition of racism"

'Have to disagree (unless you subscribe to the theory that repeating something often enough makes it true). "Nationality" and "race" are simply not the same thing. Blacks, Hispanics, American Indians, among others in the U.S., would probably disagree pretty loudly with you... However, I actually don't think discrimination needs to be "racial discrimination" to be wrong. ... OR to be unacceptable or even antagonistic to those being discriminated AGAINST.

refer to this post -: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/797324-thai-national-parks-ordered-to-charge-foreigners-tenfold/page-30#entry9071912

your disagreement is irrelevant, it is clear that the definition of racism includes discrimination based on nationality according to international law

all my posts are supported by fact that has been posted in this thread

so if you are going to make a claim that something I have posted is incorrect please support it with some evidence other then "because you said so" or because "you thought it"

there is no discussion of my opinion in this thread as I have not shared my opinion,

the post linked moved with the removal of posts it is now http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/797324-thai-national-parks-ordered-to-charge-foreigners-tenfold/page-30#entry9073245

[Jay Sata]

With all the hassle regarding no sunbeds and umbrellas in Phuket plus this sort of ridiculous overcharging of tourists the question is why would a westerner want to come to Thailand over the Caribbean or other Asian nations who welcome their trade?

[outboard]

With all the hassle regarding no sunbeds and umbrellas in Phuket plus this sort of ridiculous overcharging of tourists the question is why would a westerner want to come to Thailand over the Caribbean or other Asian nations who welcome their trade?

same reasons as yesterday Edited February 16, 2015 by outboard

[Shadychris]

With all the hassle regarding no sunbeds and umbrellas in Phuket plus this sort of ridiculous overcharging of tourists the question is why would a westerner want to come to Thailand over the Caribbean or other Asian nations who welcome their trade?

"the question is why would a westerner want to come to Thailand over the Caribbean or other Asian nations"

Well with around 25 million visitors who choose to do exactly that - you would probably get a wide variety of answers to your question!

In my case when I first came as a tourist for a month some years ago, the main factor (in spite of the 'ridiculous' overcharging that you allude to, which is a ridiculous exaggeration in itself), was that it was hugely cheaper than a holiday in the Caribbean would have been - even taking into account the extra cost of the flight to go further to Thailand.

I guess also quite a large portion of those 25+ million like myself aren't really worried about a lack of sunbeds or umbrellas. If all I wanted to do was lie on a sunbed under an umbrella (isn't that an oxymoron?) surrounded by 1000 other people every day, then I wouldn't have bothered flying halfway round the world to do it - I'd have just taken a short flight or ferry to the Costa del Crud - which would still probably have cost me as much in 2 - 3 weeks as I spent during a month in Thailand - had I stayed in the same level of accommodation and maintained the same standard of living....

Different people have different expectations of their holidays I suppose is your quick answer...

Edited February 16, 2015 by Shadychris

[kingalfred]

See this today, "The Department of Culture Media and Sport in the UK announced last week that visitor numbers at the galleries and museums it helps fund were up by 2 million in the last year on the previous year. most of that growth has come from foreign tourists, whilst galleries like the Tate and National Gallery have seen a significant decline in the number of UK residents visiting". All the foreigners grateful for FREE entrance.Take note Thailand!

Edited February 19, 2015 by kingalfred

[outboard]

See this today, "The Department of Culture Media and Sport in the UK announced last week that visitor numbers at the galleries and museums it helps fund were up by 2 million in the last year on the previous year. most of that growth has come from foreign tourists, whilst galleries like the Tate and National Gallery have seen a significant decline in the number of UK residents visiting". All the foreigners grateful for FREE entrance.Take note Thailand!

I think Thailand already knows that if you charge nothing you can sell lots of anything, but you don't make any money

BTW how much is a postcard from one of these "free galleries or museums" ?

Edited February 19, 2015 by outboard

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Right or wrong it doesn't much affect the average drunkard. Why all the fake outrage??

[slipperylobster]

Tourists have now officially decided that they will decrease their attendance in National Parks... tenfold.

Edited February 21, 2015 by slipperylobster

[cumgranosalum]

Group of 4 = 1600 baht x 4 days = 6400 baht

plus expenses

[kurtgruen]

Hmmmm....31 Pages of replies to this topic so far.

I wonder....will we still be able to see their smiles after bending over?

[arunsakda]

About 27 pages ago somebody should have said if you don't care for the policy don't go to an NP. Or better yet piss off to where ever you come from. I can't be bothered to visit some dirty waterfall anyway. With a minging carpark overrrun with feral dogs, a lake campsite infested with flies and vermin. Illegal aliens selling cheap trinkets.

Edited February 21, 2015 by arunsakda

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Slain]

I voted with my feet years ago after living in Thailand and getting increasingly fed up with their attitude to europeans. So I returned to UK.

At the risk of sounding smug. I took my wife to the Thai embassy recently to renew her passport, and spent a lovely day visiting the convieniently located top class musems. All filled with multi national people enjoying their visit. For free of course.

[Slain]

I reckon its the Americans fault spending money like it was water here for R&R during the Vietnam war. The Thais still think all Europeans are crazy rich or just crazy.

[cumgranosalum]

About 27 pages ago somebody should have said if you don't care for the policy don't go to an NP. Or better yet piss off to where ever you come from. I can't be bothered to visit some dirty waterfall anyway. With a minging carpark overrrun with feral dogs, a lake campsite infested with flies and vermin. Illegal aliens selling cheap trinkets.

The second most facile post of the thread?

[Gumballl]

Most of the parks have mom and pop vendors outside the gates. That's where I will be parking my arse the next time the Thai fraternity wants to visit one of these places. Enjoying a cold beer while they do their thing.

Just bring your own beer, and save even more money.

When you are done with the beer can/bottle, just toss it over the fence-line of the park.

[outboard]

I voted with my feet years ago after living in Thailand and getting increasingly fed up with their attitude to europeans. So I returned to UK.

At the risk of sounding smug. I took my wife to the Thai embassy recently to renew her passport, and spent a lovely day visiting the convieniently located top class musems. All filled with multi national people enjoying their visit. For free of course.

but did you buy a post card ?

[cumgranosalum]

Most of the parks have mom and pop vendors outside the gates. That's where I will be parking my arse the next time the Thai fraternity wants to visit one of these places. Enjoying a cold beer while they do their thing.

Just bring your own beer, and save even more money.

When you are done with the beer can/bottle, just toss it over the fence-line of the park.

...and the most facetious post of the thread?