Belgian man arrested for working as tour guide

[robblok]

I have a friend that is half Thai, half Dutch. He fluently speaks Thai, Dutch and English. He could have legally done this job. No work permit required.

The only problem is that he easily gets cranky when people ask him too many questions, so probably not the best tour guide.

If he guides he still needs a license or he would get arrested.

Even though he is a Thai citizen?

He has dual citizenship.

None of it matters because he has a short fuse.

Yes the gf is certified guide highest license both inbound and outbound. Without the right license you can get arrested. There even was a topic not so long ago on thaivisa about it.

Legal guides protesting about unlicensed ones. The police arrested the unlicensed ones. In a way its to get guides. But even so there are enough lazy ones.

[jdinasia]

I have a friend that is half Thai, half Dutch. He fluently speaks Thai, Dutch and English. He could have legally done this job. No work permit required.

The only problem is that he easily gets cranky when people ask him too many questions, so probably not the best tour guide.

If he guides he still needs a license or he would get arrested.

TAT licenses are pretty easy to get for bilingual Thai people. Edited March 9, 2015 by jdinasia

[TBWG]

Have just returned from a Thai package trip to Japan. Thai guide joined us at Suvarnabhumi and accompanied us for the entire duration of the trip. Would appear to be do as I say not do as I do.

TBWG

[robblok]

I have a friend that is half Thai, half Dutch. He fluently speaks Thai, Dutch and English. He could have legally done this job. No work permit required.

The only problem is that he easily gets cranky when people ask him too many questions, so probably not the best tour guide.

If he guides he still needs a license or he would get arrested.

TAT licenses are pretty easy to get for bilingual Thai people.

Depends on what kind, there are many levels of guide license. Anyway I never said it would be hard.. said they would have to have one.

[ravip]

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

Did they violate any law in your home town?

Why weren't they arrested?

If there was no law against it, there would not be a 'stealing' there.

Just my 2¢

[ravip]

Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

That says it all!

No further comments, SIR!

[jdinasia]

Have just returned from a Thai package trip to Japan. Thai guide joined us at Suvarnabhumi and accompanied us for the entire duration of the trip. Would appear to be do as I say not do as I do.

TBWG

Did your guide work for the government?

[Tomtomtom69]

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

Did they violate any law in your home town?

Why weren't they arrested?

If there was no law against it, there would not be a 'stealing' there.

Just my 2¢

Well I don't think a foreign guide, who probably knows little about the foreign country they are guiding their clients to and is a NON-resident there should be allowed to guide tourists in said foreign country. So the Thai guide in Amsterdam example is probably also a case of a Thai working illegally in Holland and therefore subject to arrest if caught. Although I don't know the exact laws there, but somehow I doubt it's legal for a non-resident foreigner to do that kind of work even if no Dutch person wants to do it. So yes, that guide was stealing in my book.

But it kinda does depend on the actual law. Still, I would be highly surprised if Holland or indeed any country allowed non-resident foreigners, who are effectively tourists once they step outside of their home countries into those countries were allowed to become tour guides to lead tourists from their home countries.

[AloisAmrein]

And what about all the Thais who work illegally in Europe?

[jdinasia]

And what about all the Thais who work illegally in Europe?

What about them? That's the issue of wherever they are caught working illegally.

[ravip]

And what about all the Thais who work illegally in Europe?

1. How did they enter the country?

2. Why aren't they caught?

3. WHO employs them?

[gemguy]

Here is how I would analyze the situation.

There is competition amongst the many tour operators and they are all aware of what is evolving....in other words.... what is lucrative and who is making money doing what.

You can only surmise that one or possibly several of the tour operators are capitalizing on tours having numerous Dutch tourists.

The operator (Tour Company) decides it would make sense ( and make more money ) to have a Dutch / English Speaking Tour Guide...( just like the many Chinese tours have a Chinese national speaking the Chinese tourists "native language" while you have to wonder if they have work permits???) so the tour company contracts a Dutch National to be included in the pre arranged tours making for a high quality tour guide type of experience.

That would not be difficult to arrange at all and most likely the man comes with the Dutch tourists originating from the Dutch side of the agreement.

Meantime, there are complaints to the police ( supposedly ) saying some companies are using foreign national tour guides ...illegally employed ...would be the pretense

The complaints to the police are anonymous of course ....pointing out how foreigners are seen working illegally ( for the competition that is ) while something should be done about it.

Meantime the police officers really do not give a damn as they are pre occupied with far more important matters ..other matters that we don't need to elaborate on....... so naturally they do not immediately get out there and start investigating such a minor crime and or infraction of the labor laws ( not really their jurisdiction is it ??? ) and probably see it as more of a nuisance than anything and not to be bothered with.

But, while cruising around the city, taking care of those other important police matters, one officer ( possibly more ) happens to come across and witnesses the very thing they have been hearing complaints about recently.

How convenient ....while the brain of a Thai police officer starts to envision where this opportunity could lead to and what is in it for him and his police associates.

Undoubtedly there is the thought of money to be made off the situation and, if anything, there will be some bonus points thrown their way for arresting the criminal foreigner along with a bit of media glory for the arresting officer(s).

Of course there will be fines levied ( better than jail or prison time ) and more than likely the tour company owners will not be held accountable in any meaningful way even though the tour company employed the foreigner.

You would think the Thai police would ignore this sort of stuff and pass it on to the labor department and let the labor department deal with the issue of any foreigners working without a work permit...but..... that is not what happens.

I surmise it is simply because the police are opportunistic and view the violation of the law as a means to capitalize on it some way or some how......while looking like they are enforcing the laws.

Cheers

Edited March 9, 2015 by gemguy

[jdinasia]

Here is how I would analyze the situation.

There is competition amongst the many tour operators and they are all aware of what is evolving....in other words.... what is lucrative and who is making money doing what.

You can only surmise that one or possibly several of the tour operators are capitalizing on tours having numerous Dutch tourists.

The operator (Tour Company) decides it would make sense ( and make more money ) to have a Dutch Speaking Tour Guide...( just like the many Chinese tours have a Chinese national speaking the Chinese tourists "native language" while you have to wonder if they have work permits???) so the tour company contracts a Dutch National to be included in the pre arranged tours making for a high quality tour guide type of experience.

That would not be difficult to arrange at all and most likely the man comes with the Dutch tourists originating from the Dutch side of the agreement.

Meantime, there are complaints to the police ( supposedly ) saying some companies are using foreign national tour guides ...illegally employed ...would be the pretense

The complaints to the police are anonymous of course ....pointing out how foreigners are seen working illegally ( for the competition that is ) while something should be done about it.

Meantime the police officers really do not give a damn as they are pre occupied with far more important matters ..other matters that we don't need to elaborate on....... so naturally they do not immediately get out there and start investigating such a minor crime and or infraction of the labor laws ( not really their jurisdiction is it ??? ) and probably see it as more of a nuisance than anything and not to be bothered with.

But, while cruising around the city, taking care of those other important police matters, one officer ( possibly more ) happens to come across and witnesses the very thing they have been hearing complaints about recently.

How convenient ....while the brain of a Thai police officer starts to envision where this opportunity could lead to and what is in it for him and his police associates.

Undoubtedly there is the thought of money to be made off the situation and, if anything, there will be some bonus points thrown their way for arresting the criminal foreigner along with a bit of media glory for the arresting officer(s).

Of course there will be fines levied ( better than jail or prison time ) and more than likely the tour company owners will not be held accountable in any meaningful way even though the tour company employed the foreigner.

You would think the Thai police would ignore this sort of stuff and pass it on to the labor department and let the labor department deal with the issue of any foreigners working without a work permit...but..... that is not what happens.

I surmise it is simply because the police are opportunistic and view the violation of the law as a means to capitalize on it some way or some how......while looking like they are enforcing the laws.

Cheers

Did you read the article?

[gemguy]

Here is how I would analyze the situation.

There is competition amongst the many tour operators and they are all aware of what is evolving....in other words.... what is lucrative and who is making money doing what.

You can only surmise that one or possibly several of the tour operators are capitalizing on tours having numerous Dutch tourists.

The operator (Tour Company) decides it would make sense ( and make more money ) to have a Dutch Speaking Tour Guide...( just like the many Chinese tours have a Chinese national speaking the Chinese tourists "native language" while you have to wonder if they have work permits???) so the tour company contracts a Dutch National to be included in the pre arranged tours making for a high quality tour guide type of experience.

That would not be difficult to arrange at all and most likely the man comes with the Dutch tourists originating from the Dutch side of the agreement.

Meantime, there are complaints to the police ( supposedly ) saying some companies are using foreign national tour guides ...illegally employed ...would be the pretense

The complaints to the police are anonymous of course ....pointing out how foreigners are seen working illegally ( for the competition that is ) while something should be done about it.

Meantime the police officers really do not give a damn as they are pre occupied with far more important matters ..other matters that we don't need to elaborate on....... so naturally they do not immediately get out there and start investigating such a minor crime and or infraction of the labor laws ( not really their jurisdiction is it ??? ) and probably see it as more of a nuisance than anything and not to be bothered with.

But, while cruising around the city, taking care of those other important police matters, one officer ( possibly more ) happens to come across and witnesses the very thing they have been hearing complaints about recently.

How convenient ....while the brain of a Thai police officer starts to envision where this opportunity could lead to and what is in it for him and his police associates.

Undoubtedly there is the thought of money to be made off the situation and, if anything, there will be some bonus points thrown their way for arresting the criminal foreigner along with a bit of media glory for the arresting officer(s).

Of course there will be fines levied ( better than jail or prison time ) and more than likely the tour company owners will not be held accountable in any meaningful way even though the tour company employed the foreigner.

You would think the Thai police would ignore this sort of stuff and pass it on to the labor department and let the labor department deal with the issue of any foreigners working without a work permit...but..... that is not what happens.

I surmise it is simply because the police are opportunistic and view the violation of the law as a means to capitalize on it some way or some how......while looking like they are enforcing the laws.

Cheers

Did you read the article?

Yes I did ...and that is how I see it....if you read between the lines ...after living 25 years in Thailand and knowing the minds of the Thai police officers and how the Thais think.

The police officers do not care about the infractions of the law rather they care about what is in it for them .....when and if they have to get involved or decide to get involved.

So why are they not arresting the Chinese tour group interpreters seen with the numerous Chinese tour groups???

Do they have work permits???.... and like I mentioned before....the labor department should be investigating any complaints and or apprehending any violators of the labor laws...not the police...... while criminalizing anyone that violates the labor laws.

And do they arrest the Thai tour operator(s) and the owners of the Thai tour companies for their knowing complicity in the whole affair......I doubt it.

It is not a simple case of dutiful Police officers addressing a vile crime that has to be stamped out on behalf of the Thai citizens.

Cheers

[jdinasia]

Gem

The Farang guide was not Dutch, he was from Belgium.

The police got a complaint from local tour guides. The violation was so blatant it couldn't be overlooked.

Mostly the tour guides for Chinese tour groups are Thai (but the agency in China often sends a coordinator along - but they are the wranglers not guides or translators -they need the Thai guides for translation)

[gemguy]

Gem

The Farang guide was not Dutch, he was from Belgium.

The police got a complaint from local tour guides. The violation was so blatant it couldn't be overlooked.

Mostly the tour guides for Chinese tour groups are Thai (but the agency in China often sends a coordinator along - but they are the wranglers not guides or translators -they need the Thai guides for translation)

I hear you.......but he was accused of being a tour guide when he was simply interpreting for the Tourists.

The whole affair is rigged in a manor that the foreigner is criminalized by some small minded disgruntled local tour guides.

Can any of the Thais fluently speak the mans language or the tourists language.....nope.

Anyhow he broke a law that is hardly important and the only reason it was enforced was because local tour guides are unhappy and the police are opportunistic in such cases concerning foreigners.

The police officer should have told the tour guides to take it up with the labor department......not the police department......but the police get involved because their thinking there may be some good money to be made, somehow or some way....especially if it involves a white foreigner......if you know what I mean.

Cheers

[jdinasia]

Gem

The Farang guide was not Dutch, he was from Belgium.

The police got a complaint from local tour guides. The violation was so blatant it couldn't be overlooked.

Mostly the tour guides for Chinese tour groups are Thai (but the agency in China often sends a coordinator along - but they are the wranglers not guides or translators -they need the Thai guides for translation)

I hear you.......but he was accused of being a tour guide when he was simply interpreting for the Tourists.

The whole affair is rigged in a manor that the foreigner is criminalized by some small minded disgruntled local tour guides.

Can any of the Thais fluently speak the mans language or the tourists language.....nope.

Anyhow he broke a law that is hardly important and the only reason it was enforced was because local tour guides are unhappy and the police are opportunistic in such cases concerning foreigners.

The police officer should have told the tour guides to take it up with the labor department......not the police department......but the police get involved because their thinking there may be some good money to be made, somehow or some way....especially if it involves a white foreigner......if you know what I mean.

Cheers

He admitted to being the tour guide then changed his story. Regardless, he admitted to breaking the law. Why are you blaming anyone but the Tourist working illegally?

My personal experience with the police has been far more positive than negative here in Thailand.

[balo]

Any Thai guide speaking fluent Dutch available ?

The Dutch people speak almost fluent English so an english speaking Thai guide is acceptable for both Dutch and Scandis.

Edited March 9, 2015 by balo

[thaibeachlovers]

I am sorry this guy was busted because it is practically a victimless crime, since finding a Thai who can translate Dutch ???

Good luck on that mission.

I undersatnd many who are saying, hey, it is common sense, and if taken to a logical conclusion might even find that a person who facilitates the active participation of "quality tourists' spending a lot of money in the Kingdom is Net Net at the end of the day actually providing a valuable and much needed service to the Kingdom.

I do believe they were the quality tourists who visit temples and cultural centers, stay in nice hotels, buy many local craft items, and eat in Thai restaurants. In short, you do not need a tour guide with a megaphone to point out that those six girls (ok, six people in dresses and high heels) in front of that massage parlor will give you cheap sex.

So, yes, i really feel it and understand why many here are bitter about this result.

I sort of believe this guy when he says something to the effect of "I really was only trying to help" ...

Yes, it is technically illegal. Here we have the pot (police) calling the kettle black, and it is getting old quickly.

I will never understand why the government does not issue 12 work permits to 12 foreigners to sit on a council and tell them how this reads / translates abroad. The Dutch might see this as, "One of ours was arrested for trying to help a bunch of us visit Thailand and learn about their culture ... while spending a lot of money there. Hmmm, let's just go to Vietnam and screw that way of thinking, who needs that drama?"

Tourism is the "People Business" ... not the rice business. People vote with their feet (and money) and are under no obligation to come to Thailand. Those "Quality Tourists" who I also want to see here are usually quite nice, spend money, try to be respectful and are concerned with humanitarianism, the environment, culture ... etc.

So, when you are done chasing them all away, what is left? Sexpats.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and as "Quality Tourism;' declines, hotel prices come down, air travel becomes cheaper and easier, etc. That means more Sexpats.

Guess what the law of supply and demand says? Correct.

More SexPats means more Sex Workers.

You now have a perpetual self feeding economic model.

And where does it start?

The capricious and unneeded enforcement of a law to crucify one guy who was trying to make a Dutch Tour much much better. The shakedown of quality tourists and resident on Thong Lor having to pee in a cup. And on and on and on ....

And ..... wait for it ... the blind eye turned to the tuk tuk - jet ski - taxi - mafia that runs many of the holiday islands.

You reap what you sow.

Enjoy making that Dutch guy's life suck.

Wait till his peers read about this at home.

"Bad news travels like a wild fire and good news travels slow. They call you (Khun) Wildfire, everywhere you go"

hotel prices come down

Excellent, bring it on .

[gemguy]

Gem

The Farang guide was not Dutch, he was from Belgium.

The police got a complaint from local tour guides. The violation was so blatant it couldn't be overlooked.

Mostly the tour guides for Chinese tour groups are Thai (but the agency in China often sends a coordinator along - but they are the wranglers not guides or translators -they need the Thai guides for translation)

I hear you.......but he was accused of being a tour guide when he was simply interpreting for the Tourists.

The whole affair is rigged in a manor that the foreigner is criminalized by some small minded disgruntled local tour guides.

Can any of the Thais fluently speak the mans language or the tourists language.....nope.

Anyhow he broke a law that is hardly important and the only reason it was enforced was because local tour guides are unhappy and the police are opportunistic in such cases concerning foreigners.

The police officer should have told the tour guides to take it up with the labor department......not the police department......but the police get involved because their thinking there may be some good money to be made, somehow or some way....especially if it involves a white foreigner......if you know what I mean.

Cheers

He admitted to being the tour guide then changed his story. Regardless, he admitted to breaking the law. Why are you blaming anyone but the Tourist working illegally?

My personal experience with the police has been far more positive than negative here in Thailand.

I am not defending him in that respect.

Why are you defending the small minded actions of the tour guides and the police???...especially when the police should be occupied with far more important matters...while you know full well the police do not do anything unless there is something to be gained by the police.

If the tour guides came around and threatened to beat up the foreign tour guide or did beat him up I can assure you there would be nothing done about that or so very little done to police those criminal actions as to be a joke.

As I said before this is a labor related issue not a criminal issue so why are the police involved??

Because...... the police are being used as a form of intimidation by the Thai tour guides who can not compete against this better service provided by a person who can accommodate a need where the Thais can not.

And you more or less support this sort of police action because one foreigner is temporarily acting as a tour guide and or interpreter.

Plus it would be interesting to know exactly how accountable the tour company involved will be for hiring the foreigner in the first place.

I assume the local tour company is a Thai tour company...correct????

If so, then just how accountable will they be relative to the foreigner taking all the blame...as usual.

I surmise the end result of this will be all the more corruption evolving rather than address the issue sensibly in any number of ways....as is the usual way things develop here in Thailand.

[kannot]

Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

Nope I wont condemn you at all in fact Ill go one better, Id say many Thais simply arent up to the job in much more than just tourist guides, if they ever get a free market theyll all be unemployed,

They make me laugh when they say " any job a Thai can do" we cant.................. what they should add is "properly"

[jdinasia]

Gem

The Farang guide was not Dutch, he was from Belgium.

The police got a complaint from local tour guides. The violation was so blatant it couldn't be overlooked.

Mostly the tour guides for Chinese tour groups are Thai (but the agency in China often sends a coordinator along - but they are the wranglers not guides or translators -they need the Thai guides for translation)

I hear you.......but he was accused of being a tour guide when he was simply interpreting for the Tourists.

The whole affair is rigged in a manor that the foreigner is criminalized by some small minded disgruntled local tour guides.

Can any of the Thais fluently speak the mans language or the tourists language.....nope.

Anyhow he broke a law that is hardly important and the only reason it was enforced was because local tour guides are unhappy and the police are opportunistic in such cases concerning foreigners.

The police officer should have told the tour guides to take it up with the labor department......not the police department......but the police get involved because their thinking there may be some good money to be made, somehow or some way....especially if it involves a white foreigner......if you know what I mean.

Cheers

He admitted to being the tour guide then changed his story. Regardless, he admitted to breaking the law. Why are you blaming anyone but the Tourist working illegally?

My personal experience with the police has been far more positive than negative here in Thailand.

I am not defending him in that respect.

Why are you defending the small minded actions of the tour guides and the police???...especially when the police should be occupied with far more important matters...while you know full well the police do not do anything unless there is something to be gained by the police.

If the tour guides came around and threatened to beat up the foreign tour guide or did beat him up I can assure you there would be nothing done about that or so very little done to police those criminal actions as to be a joke.

As I said before this is a labor related issue not a criminal issue so why are the police involved??

Because...... the police are being used as a form of intimidation by the Thai tour guides who can not compete against this better service provided by a person who can accommodate a need where the Thais can not.

And you more or less support this sort of police action because one foreigner is temporarily acting as a tour guide and or interpreter.

Plus it would be interesting to know exactly how accountable the tour company involved will be for hiring the foreigner in the first place.

I assume the local tour company is a Thai tour company...correct????

If so, then just how accountable will they be relative to the foreigner taking all the blame...as usual.

I surmise the end result of this will be all the more corruption evolving rather than address the issue sensibly in any number of ways....as is the usual way things develop here in Thailand.

Violation of labor law is criminal. It is not small minded of the actual licensed tour guides. The police in this situation would have no option other than to check for a work permit.

[Tomtomtom69]

Oh another European caught working illegal in Thailand. So, next time when I will be seating in Frankfurt Lufthansa Senator lounge i will call immigration police for those all Thai's working in the lounge and whole airport illegally.

Why would Thais be working in Lufthansa's lounge in Frankfurt? Frankfurt is in Germany and should employ only Germans, or at least other Schengen area/EU citizens. Besides, Romanians, Poles and Bulgarians are cheap and speak good German.

Although I don't know if Lufthansa has a lounge at Suvarnabhumi, I can imagine just like the check-in counters for all airlines, only Thais are employed except for very occasionally when one might spot a supervisor who's a foreigner, but that's rare indeed and depends on the airline.

[Tomtomtom69]

did Jesus had a work permit when he was preaching all over the world?

??????

work permit, passport, tax, visa, is part of the past. we live in a global world today where race, religion, are all mixed.

when I read a guy who is arrested because he got a little job as a translator , that s make me laugh.! you think it s going to stop people to work to get their own food.?

why not ask to stop prostitution in this case? prostitution is illegal in Thailand and many work without a work permit. even Walmart hire illegals.(sorry, I mean undocumented immigrants)

why do you think our governments are now broke? USA 18t debt, Europe 20t debt,....

the system is old, kaput, finished, terminated....

Once again another of your posts is worth a comment.

You seem to be advocating the abolition of passports, visas, work permits, and taxes.

Do you live in the real world? What do you think would happen if everybody was free to move to wherever they choose without any sort of controls? Maybe we should do away with governments and all related services like police and military.

Do you think it is right for thousands of people to invade a country just because they don't have enough of a particular food?

Prostitution is the oldest profession and will continue to exist long after we are departed.

Governments create laws and rules to protect their citizens from problems. This Belgian was arrested for breaking a simple law. He knew what he was doing, took the chance and got caught.Rightly or wrongly, in your mind, he was caught.

No doubt there are hundreds if not thousands of foreigners working here in Thailand illegally as dive instructors, teachers at non-government schools and doing other various jobs without work permits, and good luck to them all until that tap on the shoulder or knock on the door. and the words "Passport and work permit please".

Then the nightmare begins with a visit to the luxurious IDC and further questions.

Your dream world of open borders and free to work anywhere and live anywhere will never happen. Humanity is not the same as the zebra and wildebeeste herds on the Serengeti who can move wherever they like with no problem.

Ever so slowly, the world is opening up more and more so maybe one day it will be possible to live and work anywhere. Look at Europe, now any EU/Schengen citizen has freedom of movement and can live anywhere in Europe, stay as long as they want, get any job, do whatever they want, no restrictions whatsoever. The only barrier to integration may be language, but that's it. This has only been the case for about 20 years or so, or about 60 in the case of individual agreements between the Scandinavian states for example.

Australia and NZ have a similar agreement to the EU, with very few restrictions apart from needing to wait to access welfare, in the case of NZ citizens going to live in Australia.

Although AEC 2015 will not be like that anytime soon, eventually it could become like that.

Most foreigners here in Thailand won't ever face problems with the police regarding work permits. Most will probably just pay off the police or their employers will IF they were ever questioned by police. This tour guide was only caught because some local tour guides complained. However, it's unlikely a Thai English teacher would complain about an "illegal" foreigner working as a teacher for a school or privately where there is no demand for Thai teachers anyway.

As long as corruption and bending the rules is the way things are done in Thailand, you can get away with almost anything. Only when you make someone lose face and everyone lobbies the police to take action against you, do things turn bad. Or of course if you commit a serious crime like murder. Although some people would say...again, it depends on who you know and how powerful you are, even in those cases.

[Tomtomtom69]

I am a Professional, Degreed Engineer with a Work Permit and Company Registered for well over 20 years here in Thailand.

I basically have no restriction placed against me in my profession, Corporation and Respect with my Thai counterpart goes a long way

But restrictions,! Professionalism, Credibility, Mutual Trust is all that's needed!

It is easy to be legal here, just follow the rules, not many are new, they are just enforcing ones (rules) that have been on the books but never implemented before.

Over the years I have done the renewals, visas, work permits my self, no lawyer, no agent, only my Thai Partner and Translator.

I have never had a problem, just follow the rules and keep up with the changes.

Know your rights under the law, Yes we do have them and I have used them on occasion.

As the lawyers would say "Due Diligence" a vital part of every profession.

If you've been here for 20 years why don't you apply for citizenship? 3 years of extensions and a Thai wife are all that's needed. Otherwise, 3 years to get permanent residency and another 5 after that for citizenship. You had plenty of time but after 20 years you still put up with this whole visa/work permit nonsense?

If you've been in Thailand for 20 years, you're here for life and like it here. Get citizenship.

[Tomtomtom69]

At some time with Asean integration Thailand will have no choice but to drop "Thai only" jobs. I would hate to have to work here, the vast majority of jobs do not allow foreigners to work in them and by that very situation there are a few job descriptions this make them very competitive and the money is terrible. Professionals, like Lawyer, Doctor, Accountant forget it. Then the Thai wonder why they get so many low class foreigners here.

I never forget how they treated me as new comer to Australia 35 years ago.

I was always overqualified for them....and never got my job as electromechanic.

I have learrned in time that someone from the top should loose the job who even did not know 10 % what I knew....but so pro English pride still exists ......with only one problem...

Now they are thinking how to rob my retirement which I worked whole my life here because they are saying openly in media just now that is not much money for retirement now.

Where are those young ones who should work in our places as it was normal by the century.

Australia paid me $35/ hour on my contract in the desert on new Gas power station laying concretes in 40- 45 deg. under the sun by whole year... when they employed around 70 people from Korea for 6$65/ hour

PLUS penalties and just because of 100 welders from Australia only a couple could do proper job......

Am I dreaming?????

NO... they still cutting money for education for young Aussies and nobody really care about them....

What about me ????? I done my job ...and they now planning to give people retirement money when they will give them rights to they property ... which will be used as security and sold as you die.....

Yes, this is the one of the options now they are "cooking " for us .

History repeats in Thailand just a little different way.

It's quite normal for foreigners to be underemployed or even unemployed when they first move to a foreign country, or sometimes even throughout their entire working lives. Or they only work in stereotypical jobs for said country.

For Thais this usually means Thai restaurants or Thai massage parlours or occasionally other relatively low skilled work.

For example, I know a Thai woman, used to be an English teacher at a prestigious northern Thai high school. Then she became the head of sales and marketing, northern region for Foremost milk, then one of Thailand's largest dairy companies. Not sure what happened to them now?! But anyway, that's besides the point. Then, only a year or two into the job, she announced she was marrying an American after having been dumped by her Thai husband and moving to Los Angeles. That she did, but the romance didn't last long. She also took along her younger son, by then around 14 or 15, who by all accounts was quite lazy and not performing well in school, in contrast to her very hardworking older daughter who got a scholarship to study at a university in England. Younger son started hanging around with some Mexican gangsters, they smoke dope all day and don't do much.

Long story short, but from the time she started working in the States the only employment she could get was being a cleaner. Perhaps she could also have found work in a Thai restaurant, but despite her qualifications, no way she could have become a teacher or even worked in sales and marketing over there. Her English, despite being quite OK was probably not nearly good enough.

So now, close to retirement and with no money to her name she is living in virtual poverty.

Another former teacher from the same school moved to LA to open a massage business, with 3 locations in the greater LA area. She is doing quite well, although she isn't necessarily very rich either.

Now, close to retirement she wants to move back to Thailand as she prefers life here.

Countless Indian doctors/engineers etc. become taxi drivers in the west. Quite a brain drain is going on. Or the best they can hope for is open an Indian restaurant or small grocery business.

The foreigners that make it abroad, apart from in countries where they have a legal right to work without work permits and visas (for example Aussies going to NZ or EU citizens working in each other's countries) tend to be those who are highly skilled and find work BEFORE they make the move, AND/OR those who studied in the country they are in and stay on to find work in their area of study, although that doesn't always get you what you want either these days due to immense competition from local graduates and tightening labour markets that make hiring more difficult for foreigners (i.e. citizens from countries with no freedom of movement or work privileges in said country).

[DickFarang]

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Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

A criminal.

Taking jobs away from fully fluent in Dutch Thai people.

These fully fluent in Dutch Thai people that live in the area don't deserve to have this guy make Dutch tourist's holidays better while helping the local economy with their money.

I guess you are not fluent in Dutch, but many Thai people are, in Belgium and most probably in the Netherlands too.
At the Belgian Consulate in Bangkok there is at least one Thai female employee who speaks Dutch fluently.
That being said, when I visited Indonesia many years ago, we had Dutch speaking local guides, in Jakarta, as well as in Yogyakarta.

[DickFarang]

The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

Good to know: Dutch is the first official language in Belgium, followed by French and German.

[DickFarang]

Gem

The Farang guide was not Dutch, he was from Belgium.

The police got a complaint from local tour guides. The violation was so blatant it couldn't be overlooked.

Mostly the tour guides for Chinese tour groups are Thai (but the agency in China often sends a coordinator along - but they are the wranglers not guides or translators -they need the Thai guides for translation)

I hear you.......but he was accused of being a tour guide when he was simply interpreting for the Tourists.

The whole affair is rigged in a manor that the foreigner is criminalized by some small minded disgruntled local tour guides.

Can any of the Thais fluently speak the mans language or the tourists language.....nope.

Anyhow he broke a law that is hardly important and the only reason it was enforced was because local tour guides are unhappy and the police are opportunistic in such cases concerning foreigners.

The police officer should have told the tour guides to take it up with the labor department......not the police department......but the police get involved because their thinking there may be some good money to be made, somehow or some way....especially if it involves a white foreigner......if you know what I mean.

Cheers

He admitted to being the tour guide then changed his story. Regardless, he admitted to breaking the law. Why are you blaming anyone but the Tourist working illegally?

My personal experience with the police has been far more positive than negative here in Thailand.

I am not defending him in that respect.

Why are you defending the small minded actions of the tour guides and the police???...especially when the police should be occupied with far more important matters...while you know full well the police do not do anything unless there is something to be gained by the police.

If the tour guides came around and threatened to beat up the foreign tour guide or did beat him up I can assure you there would be nothing done about that or so very little done to police those criminal actions as to be a joke.

As I said before this is a labor related issue not a criminal issue so why are the police involved??

Because...... the police are being used as a form of intimidation by the Thai tour guides who can not compete against this better service provided by a person who can accommodate a need where the Thais can not.

And you more or less support this sort of police action because one foreigner is temporarily acting as a tour guide and or interpreter.

Plus it would be interesting to know exactly how accountable the tour company involved will be for hiring the foreigner in the first place.

I assume the local tour company is a Thai tour company...correct????

If so, then just how accountable will they be relative to the foreigner taking all the blame...as usual.

I surmise the end result of this will be all the more corruption evolving rather than address the issue sensibly in any number of ways....as is the usual way things develop here in Thailand.

Why did the tour guide not apply for a proper work permit, just like English teachers should do too ?

I have applied for a proper non-immigrant visa and for retirement extensions each year and they have never been denied.

[DickFarang]

I am a little surprised that no one from TV forum's 'Visa Terminology Police' has jumped on this from the OP "....carried a Belgian passport with 90-day tourist visa stamp".

Probably a 60-days tourist visa and a 30-days extension.