Watch out! A motorcycle on the road!

[Shadychris]

why not change the rules and make it better?

2 days before i was just millimeter for crash with a motobike without lights,

This is Thailand , but its possible to make it better, for sure!!!!!

If you look in the streets how the Thaipeople driving , maybe they get the license in a cornflakes package.

And many of the drivers in Thailand DONT have a license!

And many of the Farang when they comes to Thailand , leave the brain at home!

Make it better and save life, that is the correct answer!

the Thais are not going to change for you, you must change for them

So many on here seem to want Thailand to 'change for the better' or 'do things differently'. The inference being of course that Thailand should do things, and be the same as the western countries that most of these critics originate from.

It baffles me why, if these people are so discontented by the way Thailand is, and prefer the way things are done in their home countries, that they left their own countries in the first place.. I like Thailand because it is what it is, and glad to escape from the 'nanny state' culture, and political correctness of the west. I do not wish to see it slowly have it's character (be it bad or good), chipped away at until it eventually becomes just another 'westernised' country.

If I'd wanted to live in a country where road travel was uber safe, I would think that either Sweden where everyone drives Volvos. or America with its ridiculously low speed limits would be a much better choice than Thailand.

Hmmn afterthought - maybe America not such a good idea - commit a traffic offence there and it seems you are quite likely to get shot by the police, especially if your skin is of a darker tone - think I'd rather pay a backhander to a smiling Thai traffic cop any day!

The ideas that you present may seem reasonable to you - and theoretically I cannot fault your reasoning. But the actual reality is that just saying: "This is Thailand," and, ".... if you don't like it go back.... blah blah blah..." does not answer anything, whether the complaints are valid of not.

You should realize that the situation, the culture in Thailand - like everywhere else - is constantly changing and will continue to change.

Decadent Western values, e.g. modern music and drug culture and rampant materialism, in place of traditional values have creeped into this country, like invasive species of animals and plants. One of the imported items of physical culture was the automobile. Thai people did not adapt to the automobile by learning how to drive safely - as people did in North America, from the time they were children. They have no tradition of wanting to understand how mechanical things work and how to do PM and simple repairs in order to be able to drive safely, no infrastructure of repair centers and parts stores and forced re-education in driving skills for people caught driving in violation of traffic rules. Therre are other 3dWorld countries where people do place value on making things work right so that that people can go on with their lives without being stuck in bad situations that were preventable. So it is in no way "normal" or natural that the situation in Thailand be as it is. It got that way through circumstances and historical events, chance and luck. It could be different. It could be different if people with the power to change things accepted the responsibility to change things for the better.

You should bear in mind that no one who comjplains about the unsafe driving practices in Thailand decided to come here because they studied the driving practices of all countries and picked Thailand as the place to be in order to be able to complain about the driving. Just as no one stays in AMerica because they like the idea of getting shot by a cop for speeding.

You should get it into your mind that thinking people, when they see something that is wrong - or not in accordance with their own value system - are going to point it out - especially if the consequences of this wrong are ongoing tragedy that is preventable with a small amount of foresight and preparation.

If it bothers you so much that farangs complain then maybe you should go somewhere that people don't complain, a country where freedom of speech is not considered normal - maybe communist China, where those in power make all the decisions for you and you don't have to listen to people complain about the wrongs because the complainers get put into prison

I agree with quite a lot of what you say too, however nowhere in my post did I say 'if you don't like it go back', although if I was living somewhere where I seemed to be as unhappy as some TV posters appear to be, I would certainly move elsewhere. What I actually questioned was why people move to Thailand in the first place. It is no big secret that Thailand is very high up on the list of the worlds most dangerous places to drive. Although actually I have yet to have an accident in here, but had been involved in several in my home country.. However maybe that is more by chance and good fortune, or maybe I just drive more defensively now I'm older, as you are quite right that a large percentage of Thais do not have any aptitude towards motoring or road safety for the reasons you describe at length. There are also many other cultural and behavioural differences between Thais and westerners. Moving to another country is a tough thing to do, and I suspect too many do it without properly considering all the pros and cons first - perhaps just influenced by a few weeks holidaying in the sun, which is never going to work out well.

I do realize that Thai culture is slowly becoming diluted by westernised culture, and this is natural as Thais begin to aspire more to the materialistic values of the west. However I do not see it as my place as a guest to try and tell them how best to utilize these new aspects; in the same way that I would not move to Saudi and start pointing out that sharia law has no place in a modern society, or as a guest at your dinner table complain if you smoked between courses. My value system related to how I was bought up in the west, is very far removed from the value system of many other countries. I very quickly learnt to forget a lot of my value system in Thailand, as trying to apply it here will not get you anywhere. There is an old saying ' when in Rome do as the Romans do'! If people don't want to do that and prefer to come and complain instead, it doesn't really bother me, but perhaps it should bother them, as they will forever remain part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

[alanrchase]

I ride like a girl so only manage to overtake old ladies. Mind you some of them can get a bit feisty.

[igme]

They do it for extra challenge - being experts on bikes, how else will they break the boredom besides riding without helmet, on shorts and t-shirt, while texting on mobile and chatting with their other buddies riding parallel to them?

[hawker9000]

the Thais are not going to change for you, you must change for them

So many on here seem to want Thailand to 'change for the better' or 'do things differently'. The inference being of course that Thailand should do things, and be the same as the western countries that most of these critics originate from.

It baffles me why, if these people are so discontented by the way Thailand is, and prefer the way things are done in their home countries, that they left their own countries in the first place.. I like Thailand because it is what it is, and glad to escape from the 'nanny state' culture, and political correctness of the west. I do not wish to see it slowly have it's character (be it bad or good), chipped away at until it eventually becomes just another 'westernised' country.

If I'd wanted to live in a country where road travel was uber safe, I would think that either Sweden where everyone drives Volvos. or America with its ridiculously low speed limits would be a much better choice than Thailand.

Hmmn afterthought - maybe America not such a good idea - commit a traffic offence there and it seems you are quite likely to get shot by the police, especially if your skin is of a darker tone - think I'd rather pay a backhander to a smiling Thai traffic cop any day!

The ideas that you present may seem reasonable to you - and theoretically I cannot fault your reasoning. But the actual reality is that just saying: "This is Thailand," and, ".... if you don't like it go back.... blah blah blah..." does not answer anything, whether the complaints are valid of not.

You should realize that the situation, the culture in Thailand - like everywhere else - is constantly changing and will continue to change.

Decadent Western values, e.g. modern music and drug culture and rampant materialism, in place of traditional values have creeped into this country, like invasive species of animals and plants. One of the imported items of physical culture was the automobile. Thai people did not adapt to the automobile by learning how to drive safely - as people did in North America, from the time they were children. They have no tradition of wanting to understand how mechanical things work and how to do PM and simple repairs in order to be able to drive safely, no infrastructure of repair centers and parts stores and forced re-education in driving skills for people caught driving in violation of traffic rules. Therre are other 3dWorld countries where people do place value on making things work right so that that people can go on with their lives without being stuck in bad situations that were preventable. So it is in no way "normal" or natural that the situation in Thailand be as it is. It got that way through circumstances and historical events, chance and luck. It could be different. It could be different if people with the power to change things accepted the responsibility to change things for the better.

You should bear in mind that no one who comjplains about the unsafe driving practices in Thailand decided to come here because they studied the driving practices of all countries and picked Thailand as the place to be in order to be able to complain about the driving. Just as no one stays in AMerica because they like the idea of getting shot by a cop for speeding.

You should get it into your mind that thinking people, when they see something that is wrong - or not in accordance with their own value system - are going to point it out - especially if the consequences of this wrong are ongoing tragedy that is preventable with a small amount of foresight and preparation.

If it bothers you so much that farangs complain then maybe you should go somewhere that people don't complain, a country where freedom of speech is not considered normal - maybe communist China, where those in power make all the decisions for you and you don't have to listen to people complain about the wrongs because the complainers get put into prison

I agree with quite a lot of what you say too, however nowhere in my post did I say 'if you don't like it go back', although if I was living somewhere where I seemed to be as unhappy as some TV posters appear to be, I would certainly move elsewhere. What I actually questioned was why people move to Thailand in the first place. It is no big secret that Thailand is very high up on the list of the worlds most dangerous places to drive. Although actually I have yet to have an accident in here, but had been involved in several in my home country.. However maybe that is more by chance and good fortune, or maybe I just drive more defensively now I'm older, as you are quite right that a large percentage of Thais do not have any aptitude towards motoring or road safety for the reasons you describe at length. There are also many other cultural and behavioural differences between Thais and westerners. Moving to another country is a tough thing to do, and I suspect too many do it without properly considering all the pros and cons first - perhaps just influenced by a few weeks holidaying in the sun, which is never going to work out well.

I do realize that Thai culture is slowly becoming diluted by westernised culture, and this is natural as Thais begin to aspire more to the materialistic values of the west. However I do not see it as my place as a guest to try and tell them how best to utilize these new aspects; in the same way that I would not move to Saudi and start pointing out that sharia law has no place in a modern society, or as a guest at your dinner table complain if you smoked between courses. My value system related to how I was bought up in the west, is very far removed from the value system of many other countries. I very quickly learnt to forget a lot of my value system in Thailand, as trying to apply it here will not get you anywhere. There is an old saying ' when in Rome do as the Romans do'! If people don't want to do that and prefer to come and complain instead, it doesn't really bother me, but perhaps it should bother them, as they will forever remain part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

"However I do not see it as my place as a guest to try and tell them how best to utilize these new aspects; in the same way that I would not move to Saudi and start pointing out that sharia law has no place in a modern society, or as a guest at your dinner table complain if you smoked between courses."

Agreed. But in what way does posting a comment here on Thai Visa, even if a "they should or shouldn't be doing such-and-such" type of comment, constitute trying to tell Thais what to do or how best to do or not do anything? This isn't really primarily intended for a Thai audience. Why can't there be an objective sharing of information and perspective, good or bad, as much as anyone wants, HERE, on this forum, among visitors & expats, without violating anyone's status as a "guest", which we all should agree we are? Posting here is not the same as running around the streets of Bangkok screaming politics or attempting to agitate, which I strongly agree would be inappropriate behavior for a foreigner (and I said so, back during the protests when a very few foreigners were reportedly getting themselves involved). Nor is it the same as voicing these opinions in a Thai living room or over a friendly meal with Thai friends.

Speculation about someone being "unhappy here" or having a massive chip on their shoulder, based on nothing more than the complaints or criticisms they voice here, is purely that, presumption. And usually somewhat disingenuous presumption with repressive & marginalizing moralistic, self-righteous, preachy, finger-wagging overtones. 'No more truth to it than any other prejudice or stereotype... The mind control is simply not needed and not relevant. Let people say what they have to say without the you-should-be-more-like-me amateur psychoanalyzing.

[papa al]

" And usually somewhat disingenuous presumption with repressive & marginalizing moralistic, self-righteous, preachy, finger-wagging overtones."

Nice; may I use that?

[Langsuan Man]

I am not trying to change the Thais, or make this into a Nanny state, but if I am going to be liable for an accident because some idiot does not think that having a light on at night is important then I feel I have a right to protest

I personally am a fan of Darwinism as the solution to many of the ills here, unfortunately the cost to me, since I am a farang , and have no rights, is too high to keep my head in the sand and pretend that it will never happen to me

[hawker9000]

I am not trying to change the Thais, or make this into a Nanny state, but if I am going to be liable for an accident because some idiot does not think that having a light on at night is important then I feel I have a right to protest

I personally am a fan of Darwinism as the solution to many of the ills here, unfortunately the cost to me, since I am a farang , and have no rights, is too high to keep my head in the sand and pretend that it will never happen to me

Can't/won't keep your head in the sand? Right to protest?! Oh my goodness; I think that makes you "part of the problem"! (Don't worry though; welcome to the club. Common sense and objectivity are the only real prerequisites.)