Ducati Monster 821, Yamaha MT 09, Kawasaki Z 800 Which one?

[ALFREDO]

We now have over 200 post on the subject and you have tried all the bikes and yet you still can't make a decision, hmm.

Okay all this bike renting is expensive sooo.

The number of Posts say nothing, not really much "helping content" in most posts, and 50 % will be mine.

I have asked a question in the last post, but even you are lamenting, but did not answer an opinion.

I am down to two bikes - that is positive already.

"All this bikes renting, is expensive" ? NO,

The only bike I rented for a day, was the Yamaha FZ 09 - and yes, that was expensive as I had a mishap, damaged the oil pan.

The Ducati 821 Hyperstrada - I got on the same day for free, as the Yamaha was not available for some hours. So 2 bikes on the same day for one price.

The Kawasaki z800 was from a private owner, who wanted to sell it - ride for free.

2 Ducati Monster 821 from Ducati Phuket and before from Ducati Udon Thani, rides free.

Honda CBR650F, for free from Honda Big Wing Udon Thani - not good - only a ride around the parking lot around the building allowed -

Honda CB650F, for free from Honda Big Wing Phuket - good guy there

Edited June 26, 2015 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

I am a current CB650F owner and can not stop thinking of upgrading to a 821 Monster myself. I like my CB650f and would recommend to anyone looking for good value for there money. Myself however I am looking to upgrade to something a little "higher end", and feel the 821 is a modest upgrade with out going all the way The 821 at 479 000 baht isnt that much of a stretch

Did you Test ride the Monster 821 already?

If yes, how long and where? What kind of roads?

Your opinion?

If not, please test ride and share.

All Test rides, Ducati or Honda, are tried to be kept very short, from the sales personnel.

That is different to my experience in my EU home country.

Ducati Udon Thani wanted me to drive about 1,5 km straight in traffic in Udon city and then U-turn to them.

I U-turned 15 km or more outside Udon, but was still mostly, straight highway.

Ducati Phuket, wanted me to come back after 15 min -

the place I got the bike was in the middle of Phuket town with heavy traffic.

In 7,5 minutes, I would not even reach the outskirts of the town

I drove a nice round, including three hills, Kathu-Patong, Patong-Kamala, Kamala-Surin

and back to town than on the highway, heavy traffic there. Sure an hour+?

One of the female senior sales personnel got grumpy.

Honda similar, but they were less serious. I drove, Kathu-Patong, Patong-Kamala and the same roads back again.

[ALFREDO]

The 821 doesn't make much sense for Thailand for 3 main reasons:

1 - Bike gets too hot for most riding in Thailand

2 - Poor availability of Ducati replacement parts and service centers

3 - Traffic and road conditions make it very difficult to ride and enjoy the bike for what it is designed for

Thank you for your contribution, at least an opinion.

1. The bike, which gave me the hottest feeling I drove, was the Hyperstrada, I was in shorts, but I did not burn myself.

If you not drive to much in cities with slow traffic, its also ok with a Ducati, regarding your own feelings.

The water cooled engines are, I believe engineered enough to not get damaged from heat.

2. Service center, I would have not to far, if they get parts needed, I do not know, but as the 821 is produced assembled in TH, I would think, parts should be available.

3. Let me say, most times the power of a Honda 650 would also be enough.

The nice sound and the more torque of the Monster will be always fun so.

Edited June 26, 2015 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

I ride an even bigger Ducati

-Shurup-

You will know well =

If you had to think more from the money, would you still go for the DUCATI?

Is the Ducati factor, reputation style, sound then also (still) worth it?

[ntv69]

I am a current CB650F owner and can not stop thinking of upgrading to a 821 Monster myself. I like my CB650f and would recommend to anyone looking for good value for there money. Myself however I am looking to upgrade to something a little "higher end", and feel the 821 is a modest upgrade with out going all the way The 821 at 479 000 baht isnt that much of a stretch

Did you Test ride the Monster 821 already?

If yes, how long and where? What kind of roads?

Your opinion?

If not, please test ride and share.

All Test rides, Ducati or Honda, are tried to be kept very short, from the sales personnel.

That is different to my experience in my EU home country.

Ducati Udon Thani wanted me to drive about 1,5 km straight in traffic in Udon city and then U-turn to them.

I U-turned 15 km or more outside Udon, but was still mostly, straight highway.

Ducati Phuket, wanted me to come back after 15 min -

the place I got the bike was in the middle of Phuket town with heavy traffic.

In 7,5 minutes, I would not even reach the outskirts of the town

I drove a nice round, including three hills, Kathu-Patong, Patong-Kamala, Kamala-Surin

and back to town than on the highway, heavy traffic there. Sure an hour+?

One of the female senior sales personnel got grumpy.

Honda similar, but they were less serious. I drove, Kathu-Patong, Patong-Kamala and the same roads back again.

I have not test rode a 821 yet. I am trying to hold off testing one for a bit, as im sure i will fall in love with and want to buy that day. If I test one in Pattaya, I will share in this thread for sure.

[guzzi850m2]

I have not test rode a 821 yet. I am trying to hold off testing one for a bit, as im sure i will fall in love with and want to buy that day. If I test one in Pattaya, I will share in this thread for sure.

He-He, I am also avoiding the Ducati dealer in Pattaya for some reason

Just joking, I think I will check out the 821 next week. I had a sit (a while ago) on a 795 and I could not get comfortable on it, too small and I felt like I was sitting on my hmm bxxxx.

[Shurup]

I ride an even bigger Ducati

-Shurup-

You will know well =

If you had to think more from the money, would you still go for the DUCATI?

Is the Ducati factor, reputation style, sound then also (still) worth it?

Bikes are like girls, you look at one and feel indifferent, then you look at the other one and you really really want her. That's how I feel about my bike, plus it is the most comfortable riding position. Sound? Sure Ducati sounds nice even stock but it was not a deciding factor for me. Money? If I didn't want to spend as much as I spent, there are other Ducati bikes that I really like and a lot cheaper. If you already think about 400-500k thb bike then 10% extra for the right bike doesn't matter.

[BeefSlapper]

I would pick Ducatti.

Duccattic are very light

That z800 is a heavy bike. Not good in traffics

New Duccattis got overhiting sorted. Bigger radiators...

Edited June 27, 2015 by BeefSlapper

[DILLIGAD]

Saw an 821 running yesterday and although not my type of bike right now, it's a lovely looking/sounding piece of machinery.

It's now changed my mind away for MT09 out of your choices.

[WingNut]

Mixed reviews here on the 821:

What strikes me as very important are the complaints about torque.

Edited June 27, 2015 by WingNut

[soihok]

I ride an even bigger Ducati

-Shurup-

You will know well =

If you had to think more from the money, would you still go for the DUCATI?

Is the Ducati factor, reputation style, sound then also (still) worth it?

Bikes are like girls, you look at one and feel indifferent, then you look at the other one and you really really want her. That's how I feel about my bike, plus it is the most comfortable riding position. Sound? Sure Ducati sounds nice even stock but it was not a deciding factor for me. Money? If I didn't want to spend as much as I spent, there are other Ducati bikes that I really like and a lot cheaper. If you already think about 400-500k thb bike then 10% extra for the right bike doesn't matter.

Bikes are like girls.

Funny.

The one you lust after may offer a poor ride and have high demands compared to the awesome ride given by the indifferently viewed one, who may even cook your dinner too . lol

Just as well no ladies are reading this.

[ntv69]

Mixed reviews here on the 821:

What strikes me as very important are the complaints about torque.

I think this is a terrible "shootout". There not in the same price range or even the same power range. The 821 has 40 more HP, come on Moto USA. Ive seen other"shoot outs" with the Suzuki and the Cb500f, whats next the 821 and the Cb500f.

I wish the 821 stripe model was available in Thailand, with the adjustable front forks. Ohlins Asia told me they are currently developing a rear shock, that should be for sale in the next 2 to 3 months. So with the some front cartridge upgrades, it should be able to really tune the bike. Basically the same type of upgrades you would make to to the Yamaha 09 right out of the gate.

[ALFREDO]

A nice read in the drivers opinion.

[JonnyF]

Mixed reviews here on the 821:

What strikes me as very important are the complaints about torque.

I think this is a terrible "shootout". There not in the same price range or even the same power range. The 821 has 40 more HP, come on Moto USA. Ive seen other"shoot outs" with the Suzuki and the Cb500f, whats next the 821 and the Cb500f.

I wish the 821 stripe model was available in Thailand, with the adjustable front forks. Ohlins Asia told me they are currently developing a rear shock, that should be for sale in the next 2 to 3 months. So with the some front cartridge upgrades, it should be able to really tune the bike. Basically the same type of upgrades you would make to to the Yamaha 09 right out of the gate.

MotoUSA (and a couple of other US mags) always seem to slate Ducati as well as some other of the European brands. I'm pretty sure they have an agenda, not 100% sure of the reason but all these companies rely on sponsors so I'd guess that's why.

I treat their reviews with a pinch of salt, when they make comments like "it's an OK bike to go get coffee on Sunday" they reveal their bias and I lose interest. Review the bike, don't repeat the tired old cliches. At one point he seems to be deliberately on/off the throttle all the way through the corner. Why? To make it look jumpy? Lame.

[BeefSlapper]

Z800 dry 218kg

Ducatti 179.5kg dry

Go to Ducatti store seat down on it feels like bicycle so light. Love it.

I got kawasaki ninja 300 its 170kg dry

[ALFREDO]

When I look at the sums to pay,

Original - Ducati 821 470.000 Honda 650 285.000 B. = -185.000 B.

With Performance exhaust on Ducati + 50.000 = 520.000 and Honda 650 + 25.000 ? = 310.000 = -210.000

As I have limited funds,

I have to ask myself, is, was the Ducati so much better and also think, how much fun can I have with that

200.000 B. difference

Now good possibility I go with the red pen.

[ALFREDO]

CB650F is best value for money here in LOS. Also one of the best looking.

Bigwing Phuket offers cool water (not labeled ), cookies and coffee. Test rides possible on the open road (road to go up to 200km/h if it were legal not far away - Bypass Rd.) if you ask for it. If you don't then it's parking lot only. I rode the CB650F for 1500 km and didn't find it top-heavy nor handling bad in low speed city traffic. I found the opposite. So maybe give it another chance.

There's no NEEDS for many things each and every one of us have, however there's always WANTS.

OP wants a bigger bike and that is fine too, no need to advocate getting a smaller bike based on needs.

His original post was for an opinion on the 3 bikes he mentioned. I have my opinion that I thought none of them would be a good choice. That was/is my "opinion". I later explained why. Then eventually I gave another opinion on why I thought a used 650 bike would be the best choice based on cost and climate in Thailand. All my opinions.

The OP's original post said nothing about wanting a bigger bike. He was asking for opinions on 3 bikes. He also seems happy with the idea of considering a 650 bike if that will cover his needs.

If he wants a bigger bike, with more HP that's fine. He can spend the extra money and deal with the added size, weight, heat, and challenges of finding parts and repairing a bigger imported bike if that's what he wants. But I gave given my opinion which still stands that all that someone really needs for all riding situations in Thailand is a bike of around 80HP and would be best to buy one that is locally made.

YES,

slowly I get the same opinions, after all test rides and looking the numbers.

Thank you for advice me to go for a proper test drive with the Honda CB650F.

Edited June 29, 2015 by ALFREDO

[soihok]

What's it going to be Alfredo.

Please don't tell us that you have decided not to buy a bike after all.

[guzzi850m2]

What's it going to be Alfredo.

Please don't tell us that you have decided not to buy a bike after all.

I saw him a lot in the honda cbr650 tread lately

[soihok]

Funny old game.

I ordered my MT before seeing one in the flesh.

Same as back 2009, reserved a Street Triple just off the back of reading road tests.

[ALFREDO]

What's it going to be Alfredo.

Please don't tell us that you have decided not to buy a bike after all.

-soihok-

I mentioned only all the members who promoted the Honda CB 650 F, or the CBR 650.

AND, I have to go out of TH this week

Extension of stay in TH finished now and make a proper Visa -Non Immigrant O-,

So the Thai Officials are ( more) satisfied, to give the bike in my name.

[ALFREDO]

Funny old game.

I ordered my MT before seeing one in the flesh.

Same as back 2009, reserved a Street Triple just off the back of reading road tests.

YES, same me, when I was younger and the money was flowing in my direction. My =GLORY DAYS=

Moto Guzzi, 1000cc special edition in 1980, not much thoughts just a newspaper article

Ordered ,

Same with a lot other bikes, most without a Test ride bought, or much thinking, all new bought,

Yamaha FZ750, FZR1000, FZR1000 Exup, a Bimota YB6 (was not satisfied), Honda Fire Blade 900,

Yamaha R1-1998

[soihok]

I am impressed that you bought a new Bimota.

Nice one.

[soihok]

Happy riding

[BeefSlapper]

U can get CBR 600RR 2015 ABS for 686k in bkk. Nice bike. Well double price then US

[eisfeld]

U can get CBR 600RR 2015 ABS for 686k in bkk. Nice bike. Well double price then US

Why would you buy that from a third party importer when you can get a CBR1000RR officialy from Bigwing for 63k THB less? Even in restricted form it makes more power.

[guzzi850m2]

U can get CBR 600RR 2015 ABS for 686k in bkk. Nice bike. Well double price then US

Why would you buy that from a third party importer when you can get a CBR1000RR officialy from Bigwing for 63k THB less? Even in restricted form it makes more power.

Agreed.

That CBR600 is not very suitable for Thailand, no low end grunt, good track bike so buy one without the book cheap and then have some fun there.

[JonnyF]

U can get CBR 600RR 2015 ABS for 686k in bkk. Nice bike. Well double price then US

Why would you buy that from a third party importer when you can get a CBR1000RR officialy from Bigwing for 63k THB less? Even in restricted form it makes more power.

Agreed.

That CBR600 is not very suitable for Thailand, no low end grunt, good track bike so buy one without the book cheap and then have some fun there.

I'd agree that the litre bike from Honda Bigwing is a far better deal.

But I wouldn't agree that the 600's are unsuitable for Thailand. Sure it has a lack of torque compared to a litre bike, but everything is relative. It's still a torque monster compared to something like a CBR300/Ninja 300. Better even than a CBR500, the type of bikes that people always quote as being great bikes for Thailand.

I've had a GSXR600 since 2010 and I think it's a great bike for Thailand. A lightweight bike with high spec components and Japanese build quality. You can cruise around safely and smoothly at low RPM in the city and then wring it's neck when you get onto open roads. Loads of fun to ride.

[menzies233]

I would not give the Ducati or any other Italian motorcycle, sports car a second look, they are overpriced badly built junk, as are Harley Davidsons along with poor quality on UK Triumph. Probably comparable with Chinese bikes like Platinum etc. All of these bikes rely on history, racing to sell their junk. The average biker could never afford to maintain them in a reasonable working condition. Like Lambos, Ferraris, they are a hobby not a proper motor.

Stick with any of the main Japanese bikes, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, maybe Suzuki, as far as European I would buy a BMW.

I wouldn't touch a Ducati with a 10 foot stick covered in Dog Sh@t.

http://www.899panigale.org/forum/899-panigale-general-discussion/4697-its-rust-bucket-poor-build-quality-bit-disapointed-really.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/1363-build-quality.html

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2013/02/article/poor-quality-bearings-prompts-triumph-recall/

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/02/17/is-harley-davidson-the-worst-motorcycle-money-can.aspx

Overpriced Junk, I would rather buy a Honda Wave than any of this junk.

Edited July 27, 2015 by menzies233

[Jupiterjim]

Some poor bastard riding a Honda Wave watched his girlfriend ride off with a guy on a Ducati I'm wondering?