Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Darkknight666]

Well, Tony, then you're either not really following this story are you? Have you read any of the multiple stories?

Edited July 15, 2015 by Darkknight666

[Gweiloman]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

Strangely enough, my gik's boyfriend who also happens to work in KT told her that most of the people on the island do not think that the B2 did it.

Don't believe me? Coincidentally, I share the same sentiment regarding your post.

[Tony121]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

Strangely enough, my gik's boyfriend who also happens to work in KT told her that most of the people on the island do not think that the B2 did it.

Don't believe me? Coincidentally, I share the same sentiment regarding your post.

I dont mean they or I Think these 2 are guilty I am saying that it was burmese not thai.

[Darkknight666]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

Strangely enough, my gik's boyfriend who also happens to work in KT told her that most of the people on the island do not think that the B2 did it.

Don't believe me? Coincidentally, I share the same sentiment regarding your post.

Do you mind stating why you believe b2 are guilty? I can't think of anything other than their proximity to the beach that indicates the young boys are rapists and killers. This attack was a personal attack and it seems it also wasn't the killers first rodeo.

[Baerboxer]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

By Khaosod English

Police bring Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to Koh Samui court on 9 July 2015.

BANGKOK The first week of the trial of two Burmese men accused of murdering British tourists on a Thai island last year has done little to shed light on a case that has been shrouded in mystery from the start.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, have been charged with murder, rape, and theft over the deaths of British travelers David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23. The tourists badly beaten bodies were found on Koh Taos Sairee beach in the early morning of 15 September 2014.

The gruesome murder shocked the idyllic resort island and captured the attention of the foreign press, who detailed polices every stumble in a wayward investigation that ended with the arrest of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo several weeks later.

The suspects initially confessed after being interrogated by police without a professional interpreter or lawyer, but later declared their innocence and said they were tortured. They could face the death penalty if convicted.

Suspicions that the Burmese men were used as scapegoats to wrap up a case that was threatening to harm Thailands tourist industry were compounded last year by reports of locals refusing the speak to journalists, citing fears of powerful families on the 21 km2 island.

Despite hopes that the first round of witness examinations in a court on nearby Koh Samui last week would provide clarity on the murder, questions remain about polices alleged watertight case, and rumors about a suspected cover-up continue to flourish.

'Used up evidence'

In response to the defense teams repeated calls for access to forensic evidence that the prosecution says links Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the rape and murder, police revealed in court that swabs taken from semen found in Witheridges body are no longer available because they were used up in the original testing, which was conducted privately.

For police to say they dont have these materials completely undermines the credibility of their investigation, said Andy Hall, a migrants' rights activist from the UK who is assisting the defendants.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626

-- Khaosod English 2015-07-13

Don't people understand that if they let these people go or find the them innocent then the case shall have to re open

Don't people reckon that the best thing to do is to back off

As if they push for the case to re open then.... Wel anything is possible

Just like the Kirsty Jones case, or the Saudi jewels and murders case, or the missing human rights lawyer, or who shot Sae Daeng, or the missing environment activist.

All open cases. Do you think they ever bother doing any work on these open cases?

Or they could tie it all up nicely and close it. Just like the businessman kidnapped and murdered whose driver did it, as announced immediately by super sleuth Chalerm.

Cases are closed here by what the desired convenient result is - or left open for infinity.

[Darkknight666]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

Strangely enough, my gik's boyfriend who also happens to work in KT told her that most of the people on the island do not think that the B2 did it.

Don't believe me? Coincidentally, I share the same sentiment regarding your post.

I dont mean they or I Think these 2 are guilty I am saying that it was burmese not thai.

Ok that makes more sense, and isn't surprising to hear more people who think a Thai could never commit this type of crime.

[Gweiloman]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

Strangely enough, my gik's boyfriend who also happens to work in KT told her that most of the people on the island do not think that the B2 did it.

Don't believe me? Coincidentally, I share the same sentiment regarding your post.

Do you mind stating why you believe b2 are guilty? I can't think of anything other than their proximity to the beach that indicates the young boys are rapists and killers. This attack was a personal attack and it seems it also wasn't the killers first rodeo.

Is your post supposed to be in response to Tony121's?

[Tony121]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

Strangely enough, my gik's boyfriend who also happens to work in KT told her that most of the people on the island do not think that the B2 did it.

Don't believe me? Coincidentally, I share the same sentiment regarding your post.

Do you mind stating why you believe b2 are guilty? I can't think of anything other than their proximity to the beach that indicates the young boys are rapists and killers. This attack was a personal attack and it seems it also wasn't the killers first rodeo.

I Don't know if the B2 did it or not i am saying they think Burmese did it, she said the burmese there have there own mafia there, also how may how many stories do you read about burmese women being killed or murdered in the thai media ?

[balo]

Suggest you checkout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

I have no ties to Koh Tao. I have no ties to anyone in this case and could care less what nationality those responsible for the crime are just as I could care less the nationality of the victims. I don't know the victim or the accused families but feel for them both ... as much as I do other strangers I read about in the news. This is to say I have absolutely no emotional or other investment in this case except that it is a newsworthy story. I also find it highly fascinating the way many have used this story to benefit their own psychological needs. These people also have no ties to this event but have taken this to levels of great emotional importance. So much so, that they have lost sight of reality and cannot even step back to see just how ridiculous some of what they say is.

This story has been used by people from those who simply feel lonely and unimportant and want to feel they are special people in the know as well as being part of a group to those who simply have an ax to grind with Thailand and authorities. What appears to be the most common thread is low self-esteem. I don't mean this as a negative comment as we all suffer such periods and have insecurities but using this case as a way to sooth these feelings is not a positive step as can be seen clearly by those who just keep doubling down with nonsense offered as some proof of innocence. It has become an addiction for those wanting to not properly deal with other personal issues.

People are simply being used and manipulated be it by the press, social media or other groups who have a vested interest in drumming up viewers or making a political statement. The reality and facts of this case are meaningless to those who have made such a distorted and unhealthy emotional connection to this case ... all that is important is that they can continue to come up with, or rehash old, baseless and implausible theories.

This case has never been about justice, the accused, guilty or the victims to many and to others it has now also taken a back seat to the theorists being the main spectacle.

I have to agree with you , unfortunately this case has become more unclear thanks to all the posters in here and just too many theories thats been running on social media since day 1 .

It's difficult to separate the real facts from gossip , just look at every thread started on Thaivisa and most of it does not make much sense,

Edited July 15, 2015 by metisdead
16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[hugh2121]

SHAME ON YOU THAILAND. Hope all you contributors to this forum , will go on to post good articles on your face book and let your friends abroad know about this sick place. Don't reward this place for its crimes by allowing tourist to come here and fatten the coffers of criminals. DON'T LET THE WIN TWICE!!!!!

I understand your comment and anger but:

- most of us who live/work here experience no substantial problems...

- the same goes for the millions of western tourists whose biggest problem is a mosquito bite, a changover, a 50THB tuktuk scam or diarrhea...

- people have very short memories. how sick this case might be, it will be soon forgotten...

I'd normally agree with the above but in this case....I don't think so.

[scorecard]

My wife had a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it. apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much, I still think the scottish guy and the burmese did it.

You have formed a conclusive opinion (in part) - 'the Burmese did it' on the basis of total third hand hearsay:

- Wife has a friend visit who works in Koh Tao, she told us that most of the people on the island do think that burmese people did it

- apparently they have there own mafia there and there are regular stories of them killing each others in the camp after drinking to much,

Get a life.

[joebrown]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

By Khaosod English

Police bring Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to Koh Samui court on 9 July 2015.

BANGKOK The first week of the trial of two Burmese men accused of murdering British tourists on a Thai island last year has done little to shed light on a case that has been shrouded in mystery from the start.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, have been charged with murder, rape, and theft over the deaths of British travelers David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23. The tourists badly beaten bodies were found on Koh Taos Sairee beach in the early morning of 15 September 2014.

The gruesome murder shocked the idyllic resort island and captured the attention of the foreign press, who detailed polices every stumble in a wayward investigation that ended with the arrest of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo several weeks later.

The suspects initially confessed after being interrogated by police without a professional interpreter or lawyer, but later declared their innocence and said they were tortured. They could face the death penalty if convicted.

Suspicions that the Burmese men were used as scapegoats to wrap up a case that was threatening to harm Thailands tourist industry were compounded last year by reports of locals refusing the speak to journalists, citing fears of powerful families on the 21 km2 island.

Despite hopes that the first round of witness examinations in a court on nearby Koh Samui last week would provide clarity on the murder, questions remain about polices alleged watertight case, and rumors about a suspected cover-up continue to flourish.

'Used up evidence'

In response to the defense teams repeated calls for access to forensic evidence that the prosecution says links Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the rape and murder, police revealed in court that swabs taken from semen found in Witheridges body are no longer available because they were used up in the original testing, which was conducted privately.

For police to say they dont have these materials completely undermines the credibility of their investigation, said Andy Hall, a migrants' rights activist from the UK who is assisting the defendants.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626

-- Khaosod English 2015-07-13

Don't people understand that if they let these people go or find the them innocent then the case shall have to re open

Don't people reckon that the best thing to do is to back off

As if they push for the case to re open then.... Wel anything is possible

I think most people on this forum do actually want 'justice' to prevail. By 'justice' I don't mean the usual Thai type which can be bought by the rich and powerful, but the type that is fair to one and all. If this case is re opened, well yes, anything is possible, and the real perps might be found and punished. But, hey this LOS, and we all know that pigs don't fly, do they!

[StealthEnergiser]

It is very obvious those two innocent guys charged are innocent. It is also evident that the whole thing is a cover up and a framing . The question is why.

It seems obvious to answer the why question , is what many of you are stating. it is to cover up some big people. To avoid tarnishing the lilly white image of Thailand . to continue the status quo.

The prime minister has recently remarked that he wants to clamp down on fraudulent civil servants. He has stated they will get the death penalty in some cases. lets hope he remembers his words and apply then to all those police involved in the cover up and framing.

these top policemen who were anxious to torture and force these innocent kids into a confession........i wonder how it would feel to give them a taste of their own medicine.

time to put them to the torture . time to put the squeeze on them . time for them to pay.

With all this publicity out , and so many instances pointing out to a botch investigation and coverup, how can these guys continue in the role of upholding and administering justice in the public's eye.

And to think this goes to the very top. SHAME ON YOU THAILAND. Hope all you contributors to this forum , will go on to post good articles on your face book and let your friends abroad know about this sick place. Don't reward this place for its crimes by allowing tourist to come here and fatten the coffers of criminals. DON'T LET THE WIN TWICE!!!!!

Posts to Tourism Facebook sites will get unwanted attention but that what this case needs.

[Thesticle]

Is it possible that the B2 were involved in some capacity even against their own will. I have seen first hand how immigrant workers are treated here and for me it is perfectly plausible that if they were commanded to something I.e move bodies, that they would have no choice but to comply. Such is the relationship between Thai boss and immigrant worker.

[StealthEnergiser]

From popular Facebook site.

Koh Tao locals (Thais) seemed to find the brutal murders amusing and even posted reenactment photos on Facebook

Edited July 15, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[DLang]

It doesn't matter what evidence is or isn't present during th 'trial'.

a panel of judges will decide if guilty or not.

The General has publicly declared them guilty.

the panel of judges are going to upset His Lordship and cause him to lose massive face internationally. It would well be the death of them.

Case closed, verdict is 100% decided already.

[scorecard]

It doesn't matter what evidence is or isn't present during th 'trial'.

a panel of judges will decide if guilty or not.

The General has publicly declared them guilty.

the panel of judges are going to upset His Lordship and cause him to lose massive face internationally. It would well be the death of them.

Case closed, verdict is 100% decided already.

And your political agenda is so obvious it will probably trip you up.

[Wadan]

Anyone who have followed this case, who have read a significant part of these posts , including you those of you who are trolls: if you still have any doubt that this is a gross coverup and the two kids are falsely accused, then you are either the dumbest of the dumb or so naive that there is nothing in this world to get through your thick skulls.

After all that has been said here, we can only wonder what kind of human would stoop so low and be so heartless to allow innocent people to be used for the crimes of devils.

It seems my take on humanity is very different from what some think. I hate to imagine i am living in a world with such heartless creeps. I thought ISIS was the worst; it seems others are in the same bracket.

[Boa4004]

The saddest thing for me is: If this was my son/daughter, I would want the authorities (and the country is really irrelevant) to treat him/her with respect, to do everything in their power to reveal the truth and bring the culprit to justice. I would expect that from my home country's authorities - to give closure to the families. I have said before, no one cares if the killer/s are pink, blue, red, orange or green, just let the truth be known and punish the guilty. If I were 1 of the parents and I had to sit, watch and listen to this joke of an investigation I would feel so disgusted. Disgusted in the sense: How dare you disrespect my son/daughter with lies and cover-ups? Thai authorities look like idiots.

I also feel sad for the B2 {I think that they could be innocent...waiting for the other evidence and the MANY questions to be answered (NOT)}. Spending almost a year in Thai jail cannot be fun. And even if they go free (which is probably unlikely seeing that men with a lot of power already said they were guilty), their lives are already ruined.

And what really baffled me: Thailand cares about "fake nurses" been brought to justice but 2 innocent people are killed and they are joking around. MIND BOGGLING!!!

[Peabody]

Good photoshop.

Just about sums up the whole case for the prosecution,

thanks for sharing

A Few more for you all. Ref Reconstruction etc.

These are observational pictures and do not imply any guilt by the party included for legal reasons.

thai-reconstructio_3060764c.jpg610x406xRTR48RTT-Custom_jpg_pagespeed_ic__fTSnNqR1Vs.jpgthailand-suspects4_3060735k.jpg690632.jpgBeswick Howell Day and Connolly.jpg10980719_10204535604604310_5090620551669085497_n.jpgsean.jpgSean McAnna thai store.jpg1898192_710568065687588_4671542267254917225_n.jpg

Impossible to have been in that stance. Left foot parallel to shoulder, 500dm away. At least he IS holding it LH.

[stephenterry]

Sean knows what happened. Read between the lines of his Facebook posts "I know you tried to stop it" and "you're the most honorable man I've ever met". David came across this savagery as did Sean.... David fought and paid with his life, Sean was warned away and ran. Sean is a coward and he is in part responsible. Find the little weasel and lets get to the bottom of this.

it's interesting that David probably died first as he fought with those who were in the process of the rape, once David suffered a fatal deadly attack then Hannah's fate was also sealed, there is no way they would have left a witness to Davids murder - she may have been left alive and abused but not murdered if David hadn't intervened

What exactly are you trying to say here?

there have been many documented rapes of young western girls in Thailand - very few of them end up being murdered

it is thought that David came to Hannahs rescue - which likely means he arrived when a gang of men were in the process of raping her on the beach, when he tried to intervene he was attacked and fatally injured - his murder may not have been intentional, Hannah likely witnessed the attack on David and her fate was sealed, Theory - Sean McKenna was there also but took no active roll in the rape or the two murders and got away with his own life by convincing the perps (His Thai mates) that he would keep his mouth shut - or maybe he did take part who knows, but he left very very quickly and suddenly the next day...........why ?

While that's plausible, it doesn't match that of the SOC officer who said that Hannah's body was dragged several metres (to behind a rock?). If that is a factual statement and, in this instance, there is no reason to make a false statement) it does suggest that David was attacked first, before Hannah was violated, not while she was being violated. Same tragic conclusion, but it paints a slightly different crime scene, and that could be critical defence evidence from the UK CS specialist.

I also consider that the horrific disfigurement of Hannah's head and face, has more significance than just a 'murder'. It was pathologically brutal.

As to Sean keeping a low profile, it is just possible that if he gives evidence he could be incriminating himself - with the outcome of a possible life sentence for accessory of two murders. Enough said.

[DLang]

It doesn't matter what evidence is or isn't present during th 'trial'.

a panel of judges will decide if guilty or not.

The General has publicly declared them guilty.

the panel of judges are going to upset His Lordship and cause him to lose massive face internationally. It would well be the death of them.

Case closed, verdict is 100% decided already.

And your political agenda is so obvious it will probably trip you up.

No political agenda.

Just speaking the truth to newbs who actually think that there's a trial going on.

[DLang]

From popular Facebook site.

Koh Tao locals (Thais) seemed to find the brutal murders amusing and even posted reenactment photos on Facebook

kotao.jpg

Beautiful Thai culture on show again.

Let's not forget the 3 Thais in Udon Thani who attacked a young German man in a park with a hoe, smashing his head in, in order to emulate the Koh Tao murders.

[stickylies]

SHAME ON YOU THAILAND. Hope all you contributors to this forum , will go on to post good articles on your face book and let your friends abroad know about this sick place. Don't reward this place for its crimes by allowing tourist to come here and fatten the coffers of criminals. DON'T LET THE WIN TWICE!!!!!

I understand your comment and anger but:

- most of us who live/work here experience no substantial problems...

- the same goes for the millions of western tourists whose biggest problem is a mosquito bite, a changover, a 50THB tuktuk scam or diarrhea...

- people have very short memories. how sick this case might be, it will be soon forgotten...

I'd normally agree with the above but in this case....I don't think so.

Oh really. What do you think then?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure. I have never been to any gulf-island but am looking forward to reading posts like "there's nobody here anymore, place is empty, full moon parties have stopped, local tourism industry suffers major loss of income, aso" - which of course will not happen...

Edited July 15, 2015 by stickylies

[phuketandsee]

It doesn't matter what evidence is or isn't present during th 'trial'.

a panel of judges will decide if guilty or not.

The General has publicly declared them guilty.

the panel of judges are going to upset His Lordship and cause him to lose massive face internationally. It would well be the death of them.

Case closed, verdict is 100% decided already.

And your political agenda is so obvious it will probably trip you up.

No political agenda.

Just speaking the truth to newbs who actually think that there's a trial going on.

I agree with you except that there is a trial now in the court of international public opinion. The big question as I see it is what will cause the biggest loss of face - guilty or not guilty? And is his lordship trying to figure this out right now? I suspect (hope) they are trying to figure out the best way to let the B2 go as they cannot allow them to be convicted after what has gone on. Of course that leaves the perps free to kill again as has been pointed out before.

There will be no closure for the families either way as I doubt they still feel the same way about the "strong case" against the B2

[Peabody]

it is thought that David came to Hannahs rescue - which likely means he arrived when a gang of men were in the process of raping her on the beach, when he tried to intervene he was attacked and fatally injured - his murder may not have been intentional, Hannah likely witnessed the attack on David and her fate was sealed, Theory - Sean McKenna was there also but took no active roll in the rape or the two murders and got away with his own life by convincing the perps (His Thai mates) that he would keep his mouth shut - or maybe he did take part who knows, but he left very very quickly and suddenly the next day...........why ?

While that's plausible, it doesn't match that of the SOC officer who said that Hannah's body was dragged several metres (to behind a rock?). If that is a factual statement and, in this instance, there is no reason to make a false statement) it does suggest that David was attacked first, before Hannah was violated, not while she was being violated. Same tragic conclusion, but it paints a slightly different crime scene, and that could be critical defence evidence from the UK CS specialist.

I also consider that the horrific disfigurement of Hannah's head and face, has more significance than just a 'murder'. It was pathologically brutal.

As to Sean keeping a low profile, it is just possible that if he gives evidence he could be incriminating himself - with the outcome of a possible life sentence for accessory of two murders. Enough said.

How did all the blood spatter land on the rock to the right of her head?

[stickylies]

Koh Tao locals (Thais) seemed to find the brutal murders amusing and even posted reenactment photos on Facebook

Beautiful Thai culture on show again.

So you think a bunch of idiots + FB pics represent "Thai culture"? Please tell me your nationality and I'll lookup some geniusses representing your "culture" on the trashcan known as the internet.

Off-topic: As for the unfortunate German being attacked in Udon. Culprits were caught by police and will go to jail. Next please.

[Si Thea01]

It doesn't matter what evidence is or isn't present during th 'trial'.

a panel of judges will decide if guilty or not.

The General has publicly declared them guilty.

the panel of judges are going to upset His Lordship and cause him to lose massive face internationally. It would well be the death of them.

Case closed, verdict is 100% decided already.

It's really good to see someone who has this matter 100% sown up, and is able to do so because has so much insider knowledge. Now, I could be wrong but I thought there was only one judge sitting on this case. If not right, feel free to correct this aspect, seeing you know so much.

[boomerangutang]

I have to agree with you , unfortunately this case has become more unclear thanks to all the posters in here and just too many theories thats been running on social media since day 1 . It's difficult to separate the real facts from gossip , just look at every thread started on Thaivisa and most of it does not make much sense,

Yes, there's conjecture. But as far as clarity, you won't see things you don't want to see. There have been a number of items announced by RTP spokesmen, for example, in the past 10 months. To me, their clarity is often clear. To you, perhaps they're unclear, because they may not what you want to hear or see.

Sure there will be some unclear things along the way. That's why we have brains - to discern what rings true, and what are obvious lies. Some things can be proven untrue from the get-go ('Hannah's phone was found alongside the Burmeses' dwelling', or 'David wounded only by the sharp end of a hoe'), whereas other things are obscure because RTP didn't do their jobs (no phone records, no air-travel records, no follow up with fast-boat drivers, etc.) Another clear item: RTP announced they would not share Nomsod's DNA typing with the Brits. ....along with: 'Brit investigators are allowed to visit KT as 'observers only' but can do no investigative work.' What about those things are unclear?

[catsanddogs]

I'm waiting to hear the testimony of the squid fisherman who was just offshore before dawn and saw the whole thing.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

"Some fishermen fishing off Kanom district in Nakhon Si Thammarat province alerted police that they found a Thai man on a speedboat named "Little Duck" speeding south from Koh Pha Ngan. The man stopped by and asked for directions to Naiprao Island in the district. But he changed direction to Pakpanang district in the same province after his boat encountered a marine police boat on Naiprao beach."

This small boat fleeing was seen a few hours after the murders. Do many Burmese own private speedboats on the islands?

Are those fishermen still alive I wonder? If so they should be able to help the defence.