Stallions 400cc - Any good?

[Richard-BKK]

DELETED

Thank God it's the same as a 1985 Honda engine, and not a 2015 one.

It might actually be good.

If memory serves, Platinum used their copy of that same SOHC in their 200cc and 250cc. Those were stone reliable bikes, use them and abuse them, always came back for more.

Nothing to worry about with this engine , it is NOT made / assembled by Honda. This 400 FI single is made by Zongshen , who also make the Platinum PX 250 engines ( not sure about the 200 ) , and BMW engines. No problem with the quality there. One of my bikes is the PX 250 , converted to motard.

One small correction, the engine and basically the whole motorcycle is developed and made with the help of Shineray, which is very closely related to Zongshen – but is not Zongshen...

Nothing wrong with that Shineray, is in the top 10 of world largest motorcycle manufacturers and is partly owned by Zongshen….

[maykilceksin]

DELETED

Thank God it's the same as a 1985 Honda engine, and not a 2015 one.

It might actually be good.

If memory serves, Platinum used their copy of that same SOHC in their 200cc and 250cc. Those were stone reliable bikes, use them and abuse them, always came back for more.

Nothing to worry about with this engine , it is NOT made / assembled by Honda. This 400 FI single is made by Zongshen , who also make the Platinum PX 250 engines ( not sure about the 200 ) , and BMW engines. No problem with the quality there. One of my bikes is the PX 250 , converted to motard.

One small correction, the engine and basically the whole motorcycle is developed and made with the help of Shineray, which is very closely related to Zongshen – but is not Zongshen...

Nothing wrong with that Shineray, is in the top 10 of world largest motorcycle manufacturers and is partly owned by Zongshen….

what is the difference between Zongshen and Shineray?

Zongshen is better and Shineray is second grade?

[ktm jeff]

Thanks for the correction Richard. I know you know more about situation with these bikes than most. I did mention , on page 1 of this thread , these bikes were marketed as Shinerays in many other countries , and knowing their close link with Zongshen , i ( wrongly ) assumed Zongshen made the engines. Yes , both very good companies. Do you know who makes the engine in a Platinum PX 250 , and the best source for parts , should i ever need any . Cheers. Best wishes to everyone.

[canthai55]

Do you know who makes the engine in a Platinum PX 250 , and the best source for parts , should i ever need any . Cheers. Best wishes to everyone.

Met a guy last year - briefly - he had a Platinum, can't remember displacement, 250cc I think. Enduro model. He sourced clutch discs, exhaust valves, etc from Honda as the same as their 185cc. Got a piston from Wiseco - gave them the specs re: bore size, pin diameter, etc and in the mail it came. Honed cylinder to correct side wall clearance and good to go. Do not know your model but may be a way to go.

[Richard-BKK]

The Platinum PX250 engine is assembled in Thailand from a good amount of Zongshen parts. While Shineray and Zongshen work often together on engine parts.

Also interesting to know is that Shineray is the Chinese company behind the restart of the Italian SWM Motorcycles (http://www.swm-motorcycles.it)

[Richard-BKK]

Some of the Chinese motorcycle critics on this forum probably don't know SWM Motorcycles, therefore a bit background info…

SWM Motorcycles is a Italian company which started in 1971, and concentrated mostly on off-road motorcycles. A few years back SWM Motorcycles had some financial problems and Chinese manufacturer offered to help. The current line-up from SWM Motorcycles are mostly Husqvarna models that became homeless after BMW sold Husqvarna to Stefan Pierer/KTM – as most motorcycles in the Husqvarna line-up didn't fit with the vision of Stefan Pierer.

With the financial help from Shineray, SWM Motorcycles was able to buy those Husqvarna models, and hire a good amount of ex-Husqvarna workers and rebrand the motorcycles as SWM bikes. All SWM Motorcycles are manufactured in Italy.

In a statement Shineray boss, Daxing Gong, justified the huge investment in SWM Motorcycles as two companies going in the same direction and both companies could learn from another. The boss at SWM Motorcycles is Ampelio Macchi, who worked as designer and technical director for Cagiva, Husqvarna and Aprilia.

[ktm jeff]

Thank you 55 , and Richard. The bike ( Platinum PX 250 ) is 69 MM bore , 62.2 MM stroke , giving 232.6 cc. The manual that came with the bike only gives pretty basic service info , not valve diameters or jet sizes etc. Bike has needed nothing yet , apart from mirrors , lights and plastics from off-road "incidents".

[Denim]

^{On the subject of Chinese bikes , l can remember when Japanese bikes first started appearing in Europe they were ridiculed as ' Jap crap '. Didn't take too long before they dominated the market.}

^{Now it seems the Chinese are where the Japanese were. Getting the same kind of ridicule yet steadily increasing their share of the market.}

[Richard-BKK]

Thank you 55 , and Richard. The bike ( Platinum PX 250 ) is 69 MM bore , 62.2 MM stroke , giving 232.6 cc. The manual that came with the bike only gives pretty basic service info , not valve diameters or jet sizes etc. Bike has needed nothing yet , apart from mirrors , lights and plastics from off-road "incidents".

Hello KTM-Jef,

For the Platinum PX-250 you probably also can use the owners manual of the Tiger Boxer 250RS, the engines are nearly identical.

[ktm jeff]

Ah - Ha. Does either yourself , or anyone , know where the 250 RS manual available from , either in printable , PDF or booklet purchase. Or the dealer location of said bikes in Chiang Mai. Thanks.

[ardokano]

^{On the subject of Chinese bikes , l can remember when Japanese bikes first started appearing in Europe they were ridiculed as ' Jap crap '. Didn't take too long before they dominated the market.}

^{Now it seems the Chinese are where the Japanese were. Getting the same kind of ridicule yet steadily increasing their share of the market.}

Incorrect comparison. If you visit the Chinese and Japanese plants. Then can understand what I'm saying. Even if you just stay in China and Japan. Culture attitude towards work, accuracy and work is different. A big difference .

Even despite the fact that the organization of the production goes from the West, Hong Kong, Taiwanese managers. Total other work culture. although there is a tendency to change, but they are not so big change. .

My laptop Sony change quality when make in China.

[canthai55]

Or the dealer location of said bikes in Chiang Mai. Thanks.

The only dealer I know of is on the road between the Ping River and Superhighway, East side of the street. Has some of the Platinum trikes for sale outside, closer to highway 11 than the river. same street that turns into the 1006 Road to San Kamphaeng. Cross the Iron bridge, turn left, and past the Dukes turn right at the lights. Last time I visited, to check out the 250cc Enduro, he had one model left, in bright orange and black. Owner speaks reasonable English, but I did not ask about a manual - was looking for a Super Motard style bike. He did say that he would exchange the knobbies for street tires and sell for the same price tho'. 60K if I remember.

Edited December 27, 2015 by canthai55

[ktm jeff]

Thanks canthai55 , thats the dealer i found previously , almost opposite the train station , and a Lifan dealer. They seem to have closed , or taking a very long holiday , although i heard a rumour the owner had another shop near Pantip ?. I now have the manuals from the Tiger Boxer 250 RS. Cheers.

[jackcorbett]

Not always, but much of the time one gets what one pays for. And this goes definitely for the Yamaha SR400 which I've now owned for one year and four months. It is what it is. All 24 horsepower of it, at 265,000 baht (although it's a bit less now), 100 percent made in Japan, kick start only, and now as of today I learned that if you drain the battery entirely you won't even be able to kick start it. So let me tell you about today, and the fine job Watchara Marine did bailing me out when I stupidly caused my battery to be sucked entirely out of juice.

Last week I met a new owner who had just bought a Yamaha SR400 at Watchara Marine. HIs is black and mine is white so one thing led to another so we lined up a short trip together to the Silver Lake area, for today. I've got a Garmin GPS which I can now use for both my Honda Civic and my Yamaha SR400. To change from car to motorbike I simply snap the Garmin out of one of the housings that came with it and insert it to a similar mounting unit in the other vehicle. But to get it to work with the motorcycle I had a mechanic mount a special transformer which he attached to my bike's battery that converts the electricity from DC to AC. But I've been strongly warned to always turn off the switch in the transformer when I've finished using the GPS.

We left the dealership this morning for Silver lake. Since it's Saturday on the weekend after New Year's the traffic got a bit heavy, but no matter. these SR400's negotiate the small gaps between the cars nearly as well as a small scooter. My first thoughts were, "These SR 400's are much faster through traffic than much larger bikes which cannot get through the small gaps we are going through. On the way a Thai car driver behind me at a red light started praising my bike. He knew exactly what it was and had I been driving a Stallon 400 I'm sure he would have kept his salivating mouth shut.

It was at the Silver Lake winery that I made my big mistake. I left the GPS unit still in the bracket and my new friend and I left our two SR 400's in the parking lot. After 15-20 minutes drinking coffee together and having a couple of small cakes, I suddenly remembered that I had left my GPS on the bike as a prime target for theft, but after considering the matter I concluded that it probably would not be stolen because there were a lot of people in the parking lot, it was broad daylight and there were a couple of security guys around. About 30-40 minutes later, we went back to our bikes. My GPS was still there but my bike would not start. I had left the transformer switch on. The bike's turn signals would not work and neither would the horn. Even the green neutral indicator light stopped working. Both of us kicked the bike to start it. We kicked it over and over again. Then we tried to push start it with me guessing if I got it in 2nd or 3rd gear or not and I'd pop the clutch, all to no avail. Then two Thai guys approached us with their girlfriends and offered to help. So they kicked it and they kicked it, again and again to no avail. By this time I had removed the seat which required removing two longish bolts with a special wrench I had in my SR400's tool kit. I wonder if the Stallon 400 even has a tool kit. And even if it has one, it took a fair amount of force to get these bolts out and the wrench I had was barely up to the task. The two THai guys appeared to have a fair amount of mechanical ability, and they started checking the battery connections and the fuses to see if any of the fuses had blown. I'm still wondering if they would have been as helpful if I had a Stallon 400 or even something as unclassical as a Honda CBR 300 for that matter.

Anyway, that bike of mine was not about to start for anyone of us so I got on my friend's Yamaha SR400, this time as passenger. It took 20 minutes for us to get to Watchara Marine. It's Saturday and it's right after New Year's so they were running a skeleton crew at the dealership, but Paul was there. Paul's from Singapore, and it so happens he's the service manager. The overall general manager is there too. Paul and another employee grab my keys, get directions from me for where I had left my bike and they take a pickup to Silver Lake. I offer to go with them, but there's not a lot of room in the pickup so I wind up in the air conditioned showroom. I spend a fair amount of time talking with the dealership's GM. By this time the GM and I have both diagnosed what's ailing my SR400. One would think that even with a dead battery it should start because it's a kick start bike only. But even before my new friend and I arrive on his bike back at the dealership I'm telling him, "I think it's the fuel injection. If this SR400 had a carburetor we'd be fine battery or no battery. But this fuel pump needs electricity to get fuel to the system, and that transformer has drained all the juice out of the SR400's small battery. When we arrive back at the dealership the GM tells us this is a certainly. About an hour or hour and a half later the pickup comes back to the dealership with my SR400 in back. Not much later, Paul and the employee who had accompanied him have my bike going after juicing up my battery with a much larger battery. My new friend and new proud owner of the black Yamaha SR400 has figured a 2000 baht bill. I'm thinking it will be at least that. But the dealership winds up charging me just 300 baht. I'm wondering if I'd be getting such top notch service if I had bought a Stallon 400 there. But on second thought, Watchara Marine handles some pretty top notch bikes such as KTM, the latest big bikes from Yamaha (small ones too), and Triumph. Speaking of Triumph just do an internet search on the latest 2016 models to come out such as the Bonneville Speed Twin

Perhaps I will just have to have a Speed Twin later in my future here. But after over a year with this SR400, I'm still loving every minute that I'm on it. And as for my being on the back of an SR400 for the first time, there's that beautiful chrome bar right behind my back that keeps me from wanting to fall off the back of the seat and I could grab onto it without having to hold onto the driver for dear life. The bike seemed to have plenty of grunt driving two up down Sukamvit Road. John was getting it up to 90 kph or so, in traffic. (Again, this is in the middle of a Saturday afternoon the day after New Year's day) And yeah, I could definitely feel some vibration from my seating position as passenger. But that's all part of the personality of this classic and so is the sound of that 400 c.c. single cylinder.

[ktm jeff]

Hi Jack. Always enjoy your bike reviews. Im surprised your battery was completely discharged after just 40 minutes - maybe it was more to do with the inverter rather than the GPS. Can your mechanic wire it to an "ignition live " wire. Sounds like you received good service , something that some dealers need to improve. Im not too sure if many people could tell the difference to easy between the well respected SR and the Stallion , except the price ticket. Enjoy the riding.

[Richard-BKK]

The thing is modern motorcycles use electronic fuel injection, so no electric at the moment of starting the motorcycle means the motorcycle not gets fuel- no fuel no start….

Any motorcycle and scooter with electric fuel injection will have this problem…. Cheap bikes with EFI or the most expensive bikes… battery empty no starting even with kickstart or pushing...

[jackcorbett]

Hi Jack. Always enjoy your bike reviews. Im surprised your battery was completely discharged after just 40 minutes - maybe it was more to do with the inverter rather than the GPS. Can your mechanic wire it to an "ignition live " wire. Sounds like you received good service , something that some dealers need to improve. Im not too sure if many people could tell the difference to easy between the well respected SR and the Stallion , except the price ticket. Enjoy the riding.

I should be able to get someone to tap into a live wire. I sure don't want to make this mistake again.

THat's one thing about my Nouvo Elegance. Got electric start and a kick starter as well and it's never ever left me stranded, and once when I had a complete battery failure I was able to kick start it and drive it right down the street for a new battery, and was back home in a half an hour or so. That carburetor nearly croaks when I leave Pattaya for several weeks but I always get the engine to come alive on its last legs using only the electric start. In fact it's a bit of a rough go when I don't use the Elegance even for a few days. But it's bullet proof.

[DILLIGAD]

Could the bike not be 'bump' started or 'jump' started?

I have had a similar situation with my older/bigger non FI bike and both methods got me back on the road in no time.

Maybe it cannot work for a newer FI'd bike??????

[guzzi850m2]

24HP from a 265k baht bike is just not enough for me, my SR500 I had in the 8x's had 33hp.

Quote: The bike seemed to have plenty of grunt driving two up down Sukamvit Road. John was getting it up to 90 kph or so, in traffic. Quote ends.

I do that often on my PCX150, about 90-100kph with 2up on same road, no problem.

If you can get a 29HP Stallion 400cc (with electric start) for 110k baht compared to 250+ k baht for a SR400, which bike do you think +90% will buy (tool kit or not, you can make your own tool-kit for 500 baht)?

Well if I want a large 1 cyl bike (which I might one day), I will get the Royal Bullet Enfield 500, now that is a real classic bike, they can't make them fast enough in India and are expanding production all the time because they sell like hot cakes all over the world.

Very good service from Watchara Marine (Pattaya), perhaps they will start selling the Enfield's, who knows?

Agree on the Bonnevilles: Lovely bikes man.

[Happy Grumpy]

24HP from a 265k baht bike is just not enough for me,

Agreed.

but these bikes are not about performance.

110k baht is a great price compared to the 265k Yammy. Way out of most Thai's price range. 110k, these will sell like Somtam in Isaan.

[HLover]

24HP from a 265k baht bike is just not enough for me,

Agreed.

but these bikes are not about performance.

110k baht is a great price compared to the 265k Yammy. Way out of most Thai's price range. 110k, these will sell like Somtam in Isaan.

Yes, indeed :-)

[Rhys]

I think, it is the retro-styling, which give the bike its definite appeal. The 400cc..not sure, I rather like the 150 on a nostalgic basis.

[In the jungle]

The thing is modern motorcycles use electronic fuel injection, so no electric at the moment of starting the motorcycle means the motorcycle not gets fuel- no fuel no start….

Any motorcycle and scooter with electric fuel injection will have this problem…. Cheap bikes with EFI or the most expensive bikes… battery empty no starting even with kickstart or pushing...

Some small Honda scooters with fuel injection are designed to start without battery power.

It is covered in an article on Honda's website here:

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/pgm-fi/p6.html

A clever system.

I do not know whether my small Thai made Honda works the same way only because the original battery has never been removed and has never gone flat. It will be interesting to find out and doubtless I will sooner or later.

[BSJ]

" I've got a Garmin GPS which I can now use for both my Honda Civic and my Yamaha SR400. To change from car to motorbike I simply snap the Garmin out of one of the housings that came with it and insert it to a similar mounting unit in the other vehicle. But to get it to work with the motorcycle I had a mechanic mount a special transformer which he attached to my bike's battery that converts the electricity from DC to AC. But I've been strongly warned to always turn off the switch in the transformer when I've finished using the GPS. "

I don't get the 'special transformer'......the car and the bike are both 12V DC. Do you mean the voltage had to be reduced from 12V to 5.2V on the bike as there is no provision for 5.2V accessories on the bike, but there is on the car. The special transformer is what's called a step down transformer.

If you had a micro battery like my wife has to recharge her phone when she is out and about, all you need to do is connect the cables + to + & - to - and you will have enough current to energise the FI. Or an auto lecky could hard wire it with a one way diode and switch so it's there all the time.

[jackcorbett]

I have two powered housings that were supplied with my Garmin. The first one uses the cigarette lighter in my Civic. The 2nd works on AC which I was using in my condo after plugging it in to the wall. I have the first housing attached to the dash of my Honda Civic. The second housing I've attached to my SR400 and this one runs off the battery, but first the power needs to be transformed. Right now I have inserted the Garmin unit into the housing in my Civic, but yesterday I had slipped it out of this housing and inserted it into the 2nd a.c. powered housing on my SR400.

[RigPig]

I found this : http://www.splmotor....74985_CT400.htm

[RigPig]

Just came across this

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Stallion-Centaur-CT400_400cc-Cafe-Racer

Interesting, at 110000 not much more than a decent scooter really.Any

one know where the Phuket dealer is located I wouldn't mind a test drive and looking at the quality...

[sebastion]

Just came across this

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Stallion-Centaur-CT400_400cc-Cafe-Racer

Interesting, at 110000 not much more than a decent scooter really.Any

one know where the Phuket dealer is located I wouldn't mind a test drive and looking at the quality...

At the base of rang hill is the dealer for stallions/sym/kymco.

Its next door to the 7/11 on the map.

[RigPig]

Just came across this

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Stallion-Centaur-CT400_400cc-Cafe-Racer

Interesting, at 110000 not much more than a decent scooter really.Any

one know where the Phuket dealer is located I wouldn't mind a test drive and looking at the quality...

At the base of rang hill is the dealer for stallions/sym/kymco.

Its next door to the 7/11 on the map.

Thanks for that might take a trip out tomorrow and have a look see. I'll post my findings for others, maybe take some pics...

[DILLIGAD]

Saw one (briefly) 'in the flesh' yesterday. First impressions were that it looked OK and a similar size to an SR. From a quick glance, it would be hard to tell the difference.