Border Run Alternatives

[nuckyt77]

I am in Chiang Mai on a tourist visa issued at Amsterdam Consulate. Entered Thailand Nov. 5th 2019 and the visa (after getting 30 more days at CNX immigration) will expire on February 2 2020.

 

I would like to prolongue my stay until End of February./ early March 2020 after which I will fly back to Europe to work for 5 months. .  Can I still go to Mae Sai...cross the border and get thirty days ?.  Last year I did this once and it went all very smoothly. 

What should I bring ?.... ticket to proof I fly out ?. Cash ? 

 

 

[acenase]

What is currently the preferred way of starting from Kuala Lumpur airport and crossing the land border at Pedang Besar over into Thailand?

Is there a domestic airport near Pedang Besar or just take a bus or train straight from the border onward to Bangkok bus station?

Edited January 14, 2020 by acenase

[Scott3000]

30 minutes ago, acenase said:

Is there a domestic airport near Pedang Besar

Hat Yai is just inside the border for domestic flights inside Thailand.

 

Rome2Rio gives you a selection of alternatives for getting from KL to Hat Yai by land.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Scott3000

[acenase]

3 hours ago, Scott3000 said:

Hat Yai is just inside the border for domestic flights inside Thailand.

 

Rome2Rio gives you a selection of alternatives for getting from KL to Hat Yai by land.

It says from KLIA to use the KL Sentral train goes to Padang Besar which takes 5h 39m then from there 45km car to Hat Yai Airport (HDY) is this right? 

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, nuckyt77 said:

Can I still go to Mae Sai...cross the border and get thirty days ?.  Last year I did this once and it went all very smoothly. 

What should I bring ?.... ticket to proof I fly out ?. Cash ? 

No problem to do a border hop to get a 30 day visa exempt entry at Mae Sai

No ticket or cash will be asked for.

[Scott3000]

19 hours ago, acenase said:

It says from KLIA to use the KL Sentral train goes to Padang Besar which takes 5h 39m then from there 45km car to Hat Yai Airport (HDY) is this right? 

There are plenty of ways to get from KUL to HDY without flying into Thailand -- it's a 500km trip on heavily traveled roads. I don't like Malaysian bus service for such a long trip, so that would affect my choice of transport. My preferred method is not even listed on Rome2Rio!

 

Pick the method that works best for you and do that. The key is, you can cross from Malaysia into Thailand, by modes other than air, then quickly get to an airport at Hat Yai and proceed on your journey in Thailand. I am not aware of any potential traps or things to avoid along the way.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Scott3000

[nuckyt77]

On 1/14/2020 at 4:34 PM, ubonjoe said:

No problem to do a border hop to get a 30 day visa exempt entry at Mae Sai

No ticket or cash will be asked for.

Thanks Joe

[Scott3000]

A little update: I boarded my AirAsia flight from KUL to CNX & passed thru Chiang Mai immigration at the airport w/o problem, visa exempt. Neither the airline nor immigration asked for onward passage, though I did buy a return ticket back to KUL, on a separate booking just in case.

 

My recent history in Thailand includes:

2014 thru Apr, 2016: Tourist visas/visa exempt, including the red stamp in 2015, and interrogation at DMK in 2016.

Apr-Oct, 2016: Leave Thailand for 6 months

Oct, 2016 - May, 2017: In Thailand using one SETV & visa exempt

May-Oct, 2017: Leave Thailand for 5 months

Oct, 2017 - Jul, 2019: In Thailand, including visa exempt, 1 Non-Immigrant B visa, 2 back to back SETVs, and visa exempt in 2019.

Jul, 2019 - Jan, 2020: Leave Thailand for nearly 6 months. Return by air to CNX, visa exempt.

 

So basically, my more recent experience is more in conformity with the desires of Thai immigration, and it appears to be working. 

 

I also want to point out, Chiang Mai Immigration is back to their old, pre-Big Joke, pre-2018 inefficiencies for extending visas. I was amazed by how fast the visa & visa exempt extensions had become in 2018-19, at Chiang Mai Immigration -- my 2019 extension during low season took about 10 minutes; 2019 extension during high season took about 15-20.

 

Six months later, January, 2020, they now divert all extension seekers to "Counter 8", which is a sort of time warp into the inefficient past. The extension process took 2 hours. I went mid-week, and Chiang Mai Immigration was not particularly crowded -- except for foreigners corralled into the "Counter 8" side of the room. All other areas of Immigration appeared to move fluidly, including the extension process -- once you're released from "Counter 8".

Edited January 16, 2020 by Scott3000

[audaciousnomad]

***Question regarding the 2 border entries per calendar year rule***

I searched and did not find an answer to this specific situation.

Arrived beginning Sept 2019 VE, 30 days
Extended at Immi., 30 days

Land border bounced early Nov VE, 30 days

Extended at Immi., 30 days

Land border bounced before 31Dec, 30 days

At this point, planning to do Immi extension another 30 days before end of Jan2020. So that would put met at 180days.
1. Will I be allowed to land border bounce since it is now 2020, a new calendar year?
2. Will my 180 days have any impact on my plan to do another border bounce?
3. Will I be asked to leave and don't come back until next year?

Thanks. Just want to get an idea to be prepared to make some moves if necessary.

Edited January 19, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, audaciousnomad said:

***Question regarding the 2 border entries per calendar year rule***

I searched and did not find an answer to this specific situation.

Arrived beginning Sept 2019 VE, 30 days
Extended at Immi., 30 days

Land border bounced early Nov VE, 30 days

Extended at Immi., 30 days

Land border bounced before 31Dec, 30 days

At this point, planning to do Immi extension another 30 days before end of Jan2020. So that would put met at 180days.
1. Will I be allowed to land border bounce since it is now 2020, a new calendar year?
2. Will my 180 days have any impact on my plan to do another border bounce?
3. Will I be asked to leave and don't come back until next year?

Thanks. Just want to get an idea to be prepared to make some moves if necessary.

1.  In principle, yes. There will be no problem at most land crossings.

2. There is no official 180 day rule. Almost no land crossing applies their own unofficial rules.

3. This would be a significant risk if arriving by air, but not at most land crossings.

 

Summary: avoid Poipet, and probably Padang Besar, and you will be fine. Note, though, that using these easy visa exempt entries by land unnecessarily is not a good idea if you plan to stay more than a limited period, before leaving with no intention of an early return. For long stay tourists in Thailand, those land based visa exempt entries are your insurance policy, to be used when your other plans for extending your stay fall through.

[audaciousnomad]

Cheers BritTim!

So I should be able to do my extension this month and then another land border bounce next month if I understand you correctly. If so, thanks and that's good news. ????

 

Would you shed some light on "other plans for extending"?  The only methods I know of are to leave and re-enter, or apply and pay a fee for extending (once per entry).  Therefore, I don't see any "other plans" that would extend my visit as a tourist. Are there others?

[BritTim]

20 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

Cheers BritTim!

So I should be able to do my extension this month and then another land border bounce next month if I understand you correctly. If so, thanks and that's good news. ????

 

Would you shed some light on "other plans for extending"?  The only methods I know of are to leave and re-enter, or apply and pay a fee for extending (once per entry).  Therefore, I don't see any "other plans" that would extend my visit as a tourist. Are there others?

Long stay tourists should be looking at getting visas to extend their stays. Since achieving the visa (especially tourist and education visas) is always uncertain, the land based visa exemption is your security blanket for those occasions where the visa application does not pan out.

If you believe you might stay another year in Thailand, this is going to be difficult. A possible plan is to fly to Kuala Lumpur for a tourist visa, returning by land. Later you could fly to Yangon, returning by land via Myawaddy/Maesot. If either of these visa runs is unsuccessful, you can still enter visa exempt.

[audaciousnomad]

28 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Long stay tourists should be looking at getting visas to extend their stays. Since achieving the visa (especially tourist and education visas) is always uncertain, the land based visa exemption is your security blanket for those occasions where the visa application does not pan out.

If you believe you might stay another year in Thailand, this is going to be difficult. A possible plan is to fly to Kuala Lumpur for a tourist visa, returning by land. Later you could fly to Yangon, returning by land via Myawaddy/Maesot. If either of these visa runs is unsuccessful, you can still enter visa exempt.

Thanks again BritTim. Wealth of knowledge!

 

Do you suggest re-entry by land because there is less scrutiny there compared with airport entry points? That said, the only land entry from Malaysia is Padang Besar which you indicated is not to be utilized?

Edited January 19, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[BritTim]

25 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

Thanks again BritTim. Wealth of knowledge!

 

Do you suggest re-entry by land because there is less scrutiny there compared with airport entry points? That said, the only land entry from Malaysia is Padang Besar which you indicated is not to be utilized?

There are two reasons for land entry:

• Most land crossings only apply the official written rules relating to denial of entry. For this reason, with a visa, you are almost sure to be admitted as long as you are in compliance with the law. Some airports also seem to be OK with a visa, but
• If you are denied entry at a land crossing, you are simply told to return back across the border to the country you just crossed from. When denied at an airport (although, with a visa, this is unlikely at some airports) your fate is less predictable. In the worst case, after being locked up for a couple of days, you might be forced back to your home country.

You cannot safely return by air for a visa exemption (even at airports which only apply official rules). That is why it is best to plan your visa runs such that you will be entering by land if your application for a visa fails.

[audaciousnomad]

24 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There are two reasons for land entry:

• Most land crossings only apply the official written rules relating to denial of entry. For this reason, with a visa, you are almost sure to be admitted as long as you are in compliance with the law. Some airports also seem to be OK with a visa, but
• If you are denied entry at a land crossing, you are simply told to return back across the border to the country you just crossed from. When denied at an airport (although, with a visa, this is unlikely at some airports) your fate is less predictable. In the worst case, after being locked up for a couple of days, you might be forced back to your home country.

You cannot safely return by air for a visa exemption (even at airports which only apply official rules). That is why it is best to plan your visa runs such that you will be entering by land if your application for a visa fails.

Thanks. I understand.  I think I will do my extension end of this month, then use my two land border bounces(plus extensions) for 2020, which will effectively give me 150 days in 2020, and then fly out and just cool off for 6+ months before returning(likely with a TR visa from outside). 

 

What do you think? Would that be a long enough cooling period given that I've been here since last Sept?  Sorry for so many questions, this is the longest time I will have ever spent here! ???? 

Edited January 19, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, audaciousnomad said:

Thanks. I understand.  I think I will do my extension end of this month, then use my two land border bounces(plus extensions) for 2020, which will effectively give me 150 days in 2020, and then fly out and just cool off for 6+ months before returning(likely with a TR visa from outside). 

 

What do you think? Would that be a long enough cooling period given that I've been here since last Sept?  Sorry for so many questions, this is the longest time I will have ever spent here! ???? 

It is difficult to predict the future. Most likely, you will be fine returning with a visa after 6+ months outside Thailand. If the situation a year from now is the same as today, you will be able to virtually guarantee success by carefully choosing your entry point.

[acenase]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

Summary: avoid Poipet, and probably Padang Besar, and you will be fine.

What is wrong with Padang Besar? Surely not as bad as Poipet/Aranyaprathet border crossing

 

Isn't Padang Besar the preferred way to enter Thailand coming from Kuala Lumpur Malaysia? I think the other border was the more strict one in Malaysia that people were told to avoid, the Sadao crossing. But coming in with a history of Tourist visas, if not Vientiane, then either Padang Besar or Myawaddy I thought would be a worry free experience.

Edited January 19, 2020 by acenase

[BritTim]

10 hours ago, acenase said:

What is wrong with Padang Besar? Surely not as bad as Poipet/Aranyaprathet border crossing

 

Isn't Padang Besar the preferred way to enter Thailand coming from Kuala Lumpur Malaysia? I think the other border was the more strict one in Malaysia that people were told to avoid, the Sadao crossing. But coming in with a history of Tourist visas, if not Vientiane, then either Padang Besar or Myawaddy I thought would be a worry free experience.

A couple of years ago, when through trains ran between Malaysia and Thailand, Padang Besar was an excellent place to enter Thailand (at the station). More recently, immigration clearance at the station has ceased, and you have needed to walk to the nearby road crossing for immigration. Unlike at Poipet, Padang Besar is not exactly lawless, but the woman in charge will look for any possible legal excuse to deny entry. It is an unpleasant experience. In contrast, while Sadao has at times in the past been a horrible, corrupt crossing, reports in the last couple of years have been mostly positive (though there was a single bad report recently).

 

Vientiane and Myawaddy are, indeed, excellent places to enter Thailand, as are the other crossing points from Laos.

 

It is important to stay current on the status of land crossings, airports and embassies/consulates. They can become better or worse than previously.

[Scott3000]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:59 AM, audaciousnomad said:

will effectively give me 150 days in 2020, and then fly out and just cool off for 6+ months before returning...

Would that be a long enough cooling period given that I've been here since last Sept? 

 

See my post above, on page #102, for my own recent history in Thailand, which has a lot in common with yours. Since 2016, I've spent 5-6 months outside of Thailand each year, except 2018, when I got a job in Thailand, with a legal contract & Non-Immigrant B visa.

 

While that type of plan does not guarantee success for anybody's future entries -- including yours or mine -- I think you can get the idea: Thai immigration seems to be content if you don't "settle" in their country. They made life difficult for me when I tried to remain here continuously on tourist visas & visa exempt. When I spend several months outside the country each year then return via carefully chosen points of entry, they don't apply so much pressure. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Scott3000

[audaciousnomad]

2 hours ago, Scott3000 said:

 

See my post above, on page #102, for my own recent history in Thailand, which has a lot in common with yours. Since 2016, I've spent 5-6 months outside of Thailand each year, except 2018, when I got a job in Thailand, with a legal contract & Non-Immigrant B visa.

 

While that type of plan does not guarantee success for anybody's future entries -- including yours or mine -- I think you can get the idea: Thai immigration seems to be content if you don't "settle" in their country. They made life difficult for me when I tried to remain here continuously on tourist visas & visa exempt. When I spend several months outside the country each year then return via carefully chosen points of entry, they don't apply so much pressure. 

T

 

Thanks! By "carefully chosen" do you mean you don't fly into BKK or DMK? ????

[Scott3000]

12 hours ago, audaciousnomad said:

By "carefully chosen" do you mean you don't fly into BKK or DMK? ????

Yes ????

[rabang]

I have my first METV. Entered first time in early November and stayed six weeks. I flew back home before Christmas and came back three weeks later. I used fast track service on both occasions at Suvarnabhumi, no questions asked. I will go back home in May. I would like to do two trips outside of Thailand. If I timed it right I could do just one but as I think I won't be coming back soon I want to explore the region a bit more. Irony here is that I have a tourist visa but it's safer to limit the foreign travel due to possible immigration problems.

 

I will probably go to Vietnam but as I can only go there visa free if I haven't been there during the last 30 days I will not be flying back from Vietnam. If I was denied entry and flown back to Vietnam that could result in me ending up in a limbo, without a visa to enter, so instead I think I should fly back to Thailand from Malaysia or Singapore, both of which I want to visit. Not to Bangkok airports but somewhere in the south. I would prefer Krabi but I have seen some comments about their bad attitude, is it generally safe? In case I was denied entry I could still return to KUL or SIN.

 

The last entry I will probably do by land (or rather sea) from Langkawi to Ko Lipe as I want to visit those places as well. From my understanding it is a relaxed border and should be trouble free, especially with a valid visa.

 

For the background I have spent about 5 to 6 months each year in Thailand since 2016 with SETVs or excempts, either continuously or in 2-3 months periods. SETVs mostly from my home country. I also spent each year 5 or 6 months without setting a foot in Thailand. Last year I stayed 6 months from Nov '18 until May '19. My METV is valid until the end of April.

Edited January 21, 2020 by rabang

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, rabang said:

I have my first METV. Entered first time in early November and stayed six weeks. I flew back home before Christmas and came back three weeks later. I used fast track service on both occasions at Suvarnabhumi, no questions asked. I will go back home in May. I would like to do two trips outside of Thailand. If I timed it right I could do just one but as I think I won't be coming back soon I want to explore the region a bit more. Irony here is that I have a tourist visa but it's safer to limit the foreign travel due to possible immigration problems.

 

I will probably go to Vietnam but as I can only go there visa free if I haven't been there during the last 30 days I will not be flying back from Vietnam. If I was denied entry and flown back to Vietnam that could result in me ending up in a limbo, without a visa to enter, so instead I think I should fly back to Thailand from Malaysia or Singapore, both of which I want to visit. Not to Bangkok airports but somewhere in the south. I would prefer Krabi but I have seen some comments about their bad attitude, is it generally safe? In case I was denied entry I could still return to KUL or SIN.

 

The last entry I will probably do by land (or rather sea) from Langkawi to Ko Lipe as I want to visit those places as well. From my understanding it is a relaxed border and should be trouble free, especially with a valid visa.

 

For the background I have spent about 5 to 6 months each year in Thailand since 2016 with SETVs or excempts, either continuously or in 2-3 months periods. SETVs mostly from my home country. I also spent each year 5 or 6 months without setting a foot in Thailand. Last year I stayed 6 months from Nov '18 until May '19. My METV is valid until the end of April.

Your plan seems fine. It would have been useful to know how long you were out of Thailand before your arrival in early November. If it was many months, Immigration at most airports would likely leave you alone with an METV.

[rabang]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

Your plan seems fine. It would have been useful to know how long you were out of Thailand before your arrival in early November. If it was many months, Immigration at most airports would likely leave you alone with an METV.

I stayed until May last year in Thailand and didn't come back until November with the current visa so I spent six months away. Yeah, I am not too worried but it's better to play it safe.

Edited January 21, 2020 by rabang

[Scott3000]

20 hours ago, rabang said:

For the background I have spent about 5 to 6 months each year in Thailand since 2016 with SETVs or excempts, either continuously or in 2-3 months periods. SETVs mostly from my home country. I also spent each year 5 or 6 months without setting a foot in Thailand. Last year I stayed 6 months from Nov '18 until May '19. My METV is valid until the end of April.

This is very similar to my plan, to live about 5-7 months per year in Thailand and avoid entry at the Bangkok airports, since 2016. So far, so good. Just returned visa exempt right after the New Year after 5.5 month absence & had no problems -- not even suspicious looks or questions from the immigration officer -- at CNX.

[RedReding]

Quote

This is very similar to my plan, to live about 5-7 months per year in Thailand and avoid entry at the Bangkok airports, since 2016. So far, so good. Just returned visa exempt right after the New Year after 5.5 month absence & had no problems -- not even suspicious looks or questions from the immigration officer -- at CNX.

Same here, my plan is basically to live in Thailand 5-6 months per calendar year and the rest of the time in China or Laos as well as 1 month per year back in my home country. Shouldn't be much of a problem for immigration.

[rabang]

14 hours ago, Scott3000 said:

This is very similar to my plan, to live about 5-7 months per year in Thailand and avoid entry at the Bangkok airports, since 2016. So far, so good. Just returned visa exempt right after the New Year after 5.5 month absence & had no problems -- not even suspicious looks or questions from the immigration officer -- at CNX.

The only grilling I ever got was at BKK after I had spent three months in Thailand with an SETV and extension. It was kind of justified though, I left on the last possible day and came back the day after without a visa. After that I made an entry with an SETV and another one with an exempt without problems.

 

If it's necessary to arrive via Bangkok I can only recommend using the fast-track service. I feel it decreases the chance of rejection considerably. It is also very nice not to have to wait in the normal line especially after a long flight in Economy. A bit of luxury to start with.

[Scott3000]

8 hours ago, rabang said:

If it's necessary to arrive via Bangkok I can only recommend using the fast-track service. I feel it decreases the chance of rejection considerably. It is also very nice not to have to wait in the normal line especially after a long flight in Economy.

I still avoid both Bangkok airports for international arrival as much as possible.

 

Malaysian air gave me a pass for the fast-track service -- if we're talking about the same thing here: I went thru immigration with almost no queue at BKK. The Immigration officer gave me suspicious looks and a lot of scrutiny over my passport, in early 2016, on that airport visa run, during the period when land visa runs were not permitted. Next airport visa run, I went thru DMK and got pulled into the interrogation room.

 

After that hassle, I left for 6 months, returned to CNX airport with an SETV, and so began my Thai travel/living plan, which includes both the time frame indicated above, as well as preferred points of entry. In 2017, I paid more money to fly from Bali to CNX via KUL, not DMK, just to avoid Bangkok as point of entry.

 

I'd prefer not to have any of this on my mind when I enter Thailand, or any other country. So a couple of weeks ago, I flew in to CNX as point of entry, with a happy to be here attitude, and the Immigration officer just stamped me in as a matter of routine, which seems reasonable.

[lovesthespicy]

19 hours ago, rabang said:

The only grilling I ever got was at BKK after I had spent three months in Thailand with an SETV and extension. It was kind of justified though, I left on the last possible day and came back the day after without a visa. After that I made an entry with an SETV and another one with an exempt without problems.

 

If it's necessary to arrive via Bangkok I can only recommend using the fast-track service. I feel it decreases the chance of rejection considerably. It is also very nice not to have to wait in the normal line especially after a long flight in Economy. A bit of luxury to start with.

 

I actually just got sent out of line using the fast track service coming in with a fresh passport and my first ever METV from LA consulate this was two weeks ago. IO said something about coming alot and not good.  I was here  almost 9 months last year 3 tourist visas and 6 months a year for 3 years before that. I went home in September and returned Jan 13.

 

They made me go through the regular immigration line but nobody said anything to me there.   I also read about another guy having the same problem using fast track a few months back. One weird thing I noticed was the fast track rep didnt walk straight through the line with me like they used to. They went behind the immigration counter through a diff lane where they used to grab my passport and walk with me to the IO. I couldnt get a refund either this was through Thai limo. I'm thinking they may changed the policy on how they do this with the stricter immigration. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by lovesthespicy

[rabang]

28 minutes ago, lovesthespicy said:

 

 

 

They made me go through the regular immigration line but nobody said anything to me there.   I also read about another guy having the same problem using fast track a few months back. One weird thing I noticed was the fast track rep didnt walk straight through the line with me like they used to. They went behind the immigration counter through a diff lane where they used to grab my passport and walk with me to the IO. I couldnt get a refund either this was through Thai limo. I'm thinking they may changed the policy on how they do this with the stricter immigration. 

That's interesting because I experienced the same difference between my arrivals in November and two months later in January while using on both occasions also Limousine service. I thought it was just individual difference between company representatives but there might be more into it. So even that is not such a safe passage as it maybe used to be. There is certainly a sense of higher vulnerability if you're standing there on your own.

 

I wasn't said anything even though I had to go to a young female IO because she was the only one unoccupied. They are supposedly the worst, although my intuition would be that older females should be avoided even more.

 

I would still use Suvarnabhumi for intercontinental arrivals because I normally stay a long time out before them. The alternative route would be too much of a hassle and waste of money considering the risk that I consider is small in my case, at least if I am based in Bangkok or nearby area. For regional arrivals it's probably better to avoid Bangkok airports as much as possible.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by rabang