Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[GAZZPA]

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

it suggests to me that you have absolutly no clue what you are talking about and there is plenty of evidence to prove that

Agree, beyond reasonable doubt,,

[stephenterry]

I'd like to know what real evidence the rtp has assembled. The availability of such is being withheld.

[GAZZPA]

I'd like to know what real evidence the rtp has assembled. The availability of such is being withheld.

From what I can see nothing has been shown,, but they have told you they have it and that's all you need to know,,,

[Darkknight666]

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

it suggests to me that you have absolutly no clue what you are talking about and there is plenty of evidence to prove that

That's it really... He either cannot or will not ever get why the case against the B2 isn't convincing.

B2 had no motive.

B2 didn't do an immediate runner.

B2 are not confessing, when doing so would have a huge impact on their sentences.

David wasn't killed with a hoe, it was a blade

GB can't cite a single piece of evidence that can be verified, That takes some serious faith in the RTP's work. Says all I need to know.

[fab99]

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

I started to reply, then I remembered that there is no point in doing so, I just see that you and AleG are spending a lot of time and use really strong wording sometimes, and both of you look to be more on the defensive these last few hours.

You and AleG won't change your mind it is obvious, we shouldn't try to convince you any more, it is a complete waste of time.

I should write a long post replying to your long biased recap, I just don't see the point, there are so many things that don't seem right in this investigation but you and AleG just won't admit it and want a conviction at all cost, we want justice, but I feel more and more that we won't have it, and it sickens me really. I don't just want the B2 released as they are innocent in my point of view, we might get that, but I want above all the true culprits, the beasts that did it to rot in prison and I unfortunately don't think it will happen, as we are in a country where these sort of things happen all the time...

I just hope it will change one day, I was hoping that this case would trigger a change, it looked like it a few months ago, but now I doubt it, and it is sad...

[stephenterry]

I'd like to know what real evidence the rtp has assembled. The availability of such is being withheld.

From what I can see nothing has been shown,, but they have told you they have it and that's all you need to know,,,

Tell that to aleG. He seems to think they do. I don't know what is more believable, real or evidence.

[falangjim]

As I read there is a feeling that the accused in this trial may not be the real culprits , despite DNA showing their semen inside the girl's body .

However , one should not overlook that in this case Thailand is on trial and not just its Justice system .

Bullshit! Who has proven that either of the B2's semen was inside Hannah? Where do you come off saying that so lightly? Nothing the prosecution has put forward has been of any truth. "…despite DNA showing their semen inside the girl's body." Are you high?

Thailand is not on trial here. We all know the face saving rule of Thai culture. But what is on trial is the justice system, if that, even. Remember, we're in a country controlled by a military junta. I really doubt that pompous boob feels he's on trail.

[Madaussie]

I am waiting for the explanation of how David was killed with a hoe without getting any of his blood on it.

Damn good point

Yes only Hannah's blood on the murder weapon. No wonder the Polee didn't want to test it for DNA. It doesn't fit their story does it. In fact what is their story now as the defence has asked them to reconfigure their case as it doesn't hold any water. Leaks like a colander

[Madaussie]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

[fab99]

I struggle to imagine what happened that night when I consider the last very important piece of information that we got from the hoe analysis : it is now sure that David and Hannah had it in their hands, so the reenactment and what was said in the confession is inaccurate.

I remember clearly also that David showed signs of defense, he fought valiantly for his life and the pictures also show multiple small wounds not consistent with a hoe, which by the way didn't have David's blood on. How can the hoe still be considered as the only murder weapon ? This makes the scenario described by the RTP invalid and they have now been asked to think about it...

But then how is it possible for two small men like the B2 to do this, if there was no element of surprise that could have given them the needed advantage, David was a healthy tall young man, there was struggle for sure from both Hannah and David.

There were more than just two persons involved I am quite certain about that and more than just a hoe was used.

It is really normal to ask the RTP to provide a credible scenario now, the one they have presented in court is not.

One year after, we are still at square one, wondering what really happened that night. That is the sad truth about it, amongst so many lies.

Edited September 23, 2015 by fab99

[Madaussie]

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

it suggests to me that you have absolutly no clue what you are talking about and there is plenty of evidence to prove that

Smedly you are with him. I gave him the coroners details and he wouldn't contact her either yet rants on about her. So I have done it for him.

[stephenterry]

I care about the 2 True Victims in this case which is Hannah and David. Therefore I do not want to see 2 Accused Rapists and Murderers walk free until it is proven beyond a "Reasonable Doubt" they are in fact Innocent. Do you see where they have done that as I don't.

Someone who may have forgotten to put the correct date on a DNA Document does not convince me the 2 Accused are innocent. Nor is the UK Justice System who fail to provide written declaration that this Mobile Phone belongs to David, as by law they are not allowed to, even if they give a verbal confirmation. Even that this case wasn't handled perfectly with apparent blunders. But none so far that proves the DNA Match with Hannah is false, and why after a year the Defense is still trying to prove that today.

You on the other hand think the victims here are the 2 Accused. You base your judgement on a case that wasn't handled perfectly, which has only been reported about by the Defense Team since last November as the Prosecution has said very little. On 2 Baby Faced Accused Rapists and Murderers who simply said they didn't do it and were tortured into a confession, with no proof so far any of that is true, and when anyone accused with a crime like this would lie through their teeth to save their own skins.

The Defense has a chance this week to prove their case, so let's let them do their job.

This typify's the bias being shown by some posters in favour of a conviction. It is for the prosecution to provide evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendants are guilty not for them to prove their innocence. So far they have clearly not done so or indeed provided any evidence other than to say "We know they did it" They have unfortunately lost or destroyed what evidence there was and given laughable reasons for doing so. In any western court the case would never have even reached the trial stage but I guess we will be subjected to the charade a while longer. It seems that for some here the mere accusation by the police is proof of guilt which demonstrates a ridiculously high level of trust in the RTP

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

[Madaussie]

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

I couldn't even bring myself to read it Stephen....

[fab99]

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

I couldn't even bring myself to read it Stephen....

I block him and AleG, but when they are quoted their post is visible, but this one was so full of bullshit that I just partially read it, I wanted to answer it point by point, to not let mistakes and lies like that unanswered, but I gave up and now the post is far... unless we quote it, then it resurfaces, which we just did.... Three times in a row...

I seem to have missed the info about the coroner report given to GB was it a private message (if so, could I get it too?) or public on this thread, strange that it didn't create any discussion.

Edited September 23, 2015 by fab99

[Fat Haggis]

So apparently from the witness list, the Defense will be presenting no witnesses -- UK, Thai, or otherwise -- who were at the scene or vicinity of the crimes on the night in question and who who were in the company of the victims who can testify as to the doings of Ms. Witheridge or Mr. Miller in the hours previous to the crimes.

Which is odd because I distinctly remember them claiming that they had witnesses that could prove the two defendants innocence, including eye witnesses.

More memories by you that are unsubstantiated. I'm particularly interested in this little gem " including eye witnesses" Please go ahead and prove me wrong with a link that states they had these eye witnesses who were going to attend the trial. Other than those who were to afraid to attend.

As opposed to the prosecutions "eye witness" who could only say the accused were on the beach !! And he seen nothing!!

Sham sham sham sham sham trial, with shills still believing in the RTP version of events because they have connections on the Island, and have been planted here to do their best to continually disrupt these threads with defections and have been instrumental in getting prolific posters "given time outs"

Shame on these people, even Stevie Wonder can see that this "water tight case" is about as water tight as a sponge!!

Shame on the Thai Jusiciary for allowing such a half assed cased to be presented by the prosecution.

Shame on both sets of witnesses who were not really witness to anything.

There are sadly more victims in this case than just Hannah and David , the families are victims and the biggest victims outwith poor Hannah and David so far has been justice itself!!!

[StealthEnergiser]

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

I started to reply, then I remembered that there is no point in doing so, I just see that you and AleG are spending a lot of time and use really strong wording sometimes, and both of you look to be more on the defensive these last few hours.

You and AleG won't change your mind it is obvious, we shouldn't try to convince you any more, it is a complete waste of time.

I should write a long post replying to your long biased recap, I just don't see the point, there are so many things that don't seem right in this investigation but you and AleG just won't admit it and want a conviction at all cost, we want justice, but I feel more and more that we won't have it, and it sickens me really. I don't just want the B2 released as they are innocent in my point of view, we might get that, but I want above all the true culprits, the beasts that did it to rot in prison and I unfortunately don't think it will happen, as we are in a country where these sort of things happen all the time...

I just hope it will change one day, I was hoping that this case would trigger a change, it looked like it a few months ago, but now I doubt it, and it is sad...

I agree RTP defenders seem to be getting much more defensive so better not to let them get to you.

The Defence team for the B2 seem to be going quite well and the pressure is certainly on the prosecution side .

I am tipping a few heads may start rolling soon when the truth is exposed.

I know this is thailand but surely it is the best time to make changes and take action against every person involved in covering up once the b2 are proven innocent.

It should not matter if they are RTP . Prosecutors , politicians , koh tao locals or online posters every person should be prosecuted with the full extent of the Law.

[Madaussie]

I block him and AleG, but when they are quoted their post is visible, but this one was so full of bullshit that I just partially read it, I wanted to answer it point by point, to not let mistakes and lies like that unanswered, but I gave up and now the post is far... unless we quote it, then it resurfaces, which we just did.... Three times in a row...

I seem to have missed the info about the coroner report given to GB was it a private message (if so, could I get it too?) or public on this thread, strange that it didn't create any discussion.

Hi GB was saying the coroner had broken the law etc etc so I told him to contact the coroner. Etc etc.. He didn't want to so I emailed her for him to get a response. I will post the reply when I get it.

[stephenterry]

Stealth, I admire your optimism but it's not realistic. No heads will roll, no face will be lost, and no changes will be made. They couldn't care less about what we think, it's all about Thailand.

[Fat Haggis]

GB wouldn't know the law if it jumped up and bit him on the rz !! He knows about as much as anyone else who knows Jack !!!

[Madaussie]

Coroners Response

-------- Original message --------

From: Norfolk Coroner

Date:23/09/2015 13:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: ------------

Subject: RE: Hannah Witheridge

Dear ------------------

I must advise that evidence which is relevant to the inquest will be heard at the inquest and at present. A date for the inquest has not yet been fixed, but the matter will be reviewed briefly on 15 October 2015, when the Coroner will decide whether a date can/should then be fixed for inquest.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Tracey

Tracey Mills-Phillips

Coroner’s Support Officer

Norfolk Coroner’s Office

01603 663302

[JLCrab]

<snip>

My eyes are tired.

Edited September 23, 2015 by JLCrab

[StealthEnergiser]

Stealth, I admire your optimism but it's not realistic. No heads will roll, no face will be lost, and no changes will be made. They couldn't care less about what we think, it's all about Thailand.

Steven , I understand your reasoning but I am still not that convinced that nothing will happen.

Surely PM Prayuth will take some action as he is the one who said something like "they better not be using scapegoats"

[loonodingle]

Coroners Response

-------- Original message --------

From: Norfolk Coroner

Date:23/09/2015 13:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: ------------

Subject: RE: Hannah Witheridge

Dear ------------------

I must advise that evidence which is relevant to the inquest will be heard at the inquest and at present. A date for the inquest has not yet been fixed, but the matter will be reviewed briefly on 15 October 2015, when the Coroner will decide whether a date can/should then be fixed for inquest.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Tracey

Tracey Mills-Phillips

Coroners Support Officer

Norfolk Coroners Office

01603 663302

Thefe u go Crabby.

[JLCrab]

Coroners Response

-------- Original message --------

From: Norfolk Coroner

Date:23/09/2015 13:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: ------------

Subject: RE: Hannah Witheridge

Dear ------------------

I must advise that evidence which is relevant to the inquest will be heard at the inquest and at present. A date for the inquest has not yet been fixed, but the matter will be reviewed briefly on 15 October 2015, when the Coroner will decide whether a date can/should then be fixed for inquest.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Tracey

Tracey Mills-Phillips

Coroners Support Officer

Norfolk Coroners Office

01603 663302

Thefe u go Crabby.

Thank you -- and as per the document I posted earlier, from the above response --

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

[AleG]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

There are similarities between the OJ Simpson trial and this one, on both the defense exploited shortfalls in the investigation and playing up racial issues to influence the verdict, the outcome of that trial was a miscarriage of justice, since a jury was swayed by those tactics allowing a guilty man to walk free.

On this case there is no jury, so hopefully the verdict will be decided on the actual merits of the case rather than on what buttons can be pushed on a person to make a decision based on emotion rather than an objective analysis of the evidence.

[loonodingle]

Coroners Response

-------- Original message --------

From: Norfolk Coroner

Date:23/09/2015 13:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: ------------

Subject: RE: Hannah Witheridge

Dear ------------------

I must advise that evidence which is relevant to the inquest will be heard at the inquest and at present. A date for the inquest has not yet been fixed, but the matter will be reviewed briefly on 15 October 2015, when the Coroner will decide whether a date can/should then be fixed for inquest.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Tracey

Tracey Mills-Phillips

Coroners Support Officer

Norfolk Coroners Office

01603 663302

Thefe u go Crabby.

Thank you -- and as per the document I posted earlier, from the above response --

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Well your proven correct then. At least they responded in a short while. Will be interesting to see how much evidence is released.

[Luang]

I'm thinking if the prosecution is going to keep dickin around and not release full documentation for a clear and open analysis by the defense...it might be about time to reveal that coroner's report from the UK. It seems like the prosecution are in the final 10 seconds of a basketball game...they have the ball and are passing it around to run out the clock.

Sounds like a good idea but apparently the UK agreed with Thailand that the report would not be made public,, so we will never know what is in it. All we know from the UK press is that the forensic team in the UK have some "serious" issues about the Thai pathologist report and that they felt it was their duty to present to the court in Thailand.

It was definitely suggested it would help the case of the defence, but we will probably never know.

I know some of it but was scolded for mentioning maybe this and maybe that.. So I deleted it. It will come out in the inquest anyway. They cant keep it quiet forever. Freedoms in the UK allow people to know the truth at some point.

People in the UK should be furnished with the truth now, not some point in the future. If I was planning on a holiday to Koh Tao I would want to be reassured by the UK Government that they had done everything possible in their power to ensure that they were 100% confident that the evil people that committed the horrendous crimes on their citizens only a year ago were not still free to repeat their deeds. What benefit is it to anyone to withhold such vital information?

Why, business interests between the two countries of course! Why do you think the UK Police went over, did nuthin and then went back and told the families all was well with the investigation. And they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so!!

[GOLDBUGGY]

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

it suggests to me that you have absolutly no clue what you are talking about and there is plenty of evidence to prove that

That's it really... He either cannot or will not ever get why the case against the B2 isn't convincing.

B2 had no motive.

B2 didn't do an immediate runner.

B2 are not confessing, when doing so would have a huge impact on their sentences.

David wasn't killed with a hoe, it was a blade

GB can't cite a single piece of evidence that can be verified, That takes some serious faith in the RTP's work. Says all I need to know.

"B2 Had no motive"

Rape and Theft of a Mobile Phone is Motives.

"B2 didn't do an immediate runner"

If you are talking right after the murderers it would have been highly suspicious if they tried to leave the island right away. The Ferry was been watched closely and all Migrant Workers were told not to leave the island while the investigation was ongoing. When Police Reported that a DNA Match to Hannah from Cigarette Butts found near the scene Win took the Night Ferry and was picked up the next day on the Main Land on the Arrival Pier.

If you are talking about the runner in the CCTV he was never accused of murderer. He was only wanted for questioning.

"B2 are not confessing, when doing so would have a huge impact on their sentences".

They already confessed once then retracted that. How many more times can they be expected to do so? Who even said the Prosecution gave them any sort of deal and if so what are their choices? Is it the Death Penalty, or instead 100 years in a Thai Prison? Some choice! Or how about 100 years in a Thai Prison, or if you plead guilty only 50 Years? Again some choice! To get out when you are 73 years old and spend all that time in a Thai Prison, if you ever lived that long on Fish Head Soup. Which choice would you choose?

A single piece of evidence that can be verify? To whom? To You? Then the answer is never as you wouldn't believe it anyway.

But as far as I know the Confessions, David Miller's Mobile Phone, and the DNA Evidence and Testimony has not been thrown out of court yet. This remains for the court to resolve since they are privy to all information, and not just what the Defense Team claims and reports to the Media.

[loonodingle]

I'm thinking if the prosecution is going to keep dickin around and not release full documentation for a clear and open analysis by the defense...it might be about time to reveal that coroner's report from the UK. It seems like the prosecution are in the final 10 seconds of a basketball game...they have the ball and are passing it around to run out the clock.

Sounds like a good idea but apparently the UK agreed with Thailand that the report would not be made public,, so we will never know what is in it. All we know from the UK press is that the forensic team in the UK have some "serious" issues about the Thai pathologist report and that they felt it was their duty to present to the court in Thailand.

It was definitely suggested it would help the case of the defence, but we will probably never know.

I know some of it but was scolded for mentioning maybe this and maybe that.. So I deleted it. It will come out in the inquest anyway. They cant keep it quiet forever. Freedoms in the UK allow people to know the truth at some point.

People in the UK should be furnished with the truth now, not some point in the future. If I was planning on a holiday to Koh Tao I would want to be reassured by the UK Government that they had done everything possible in their power to ensure that they were 100% confident that the evil people that committed the horrendous crimes on their citizens only a year ago were not still free to repeat their deeds. What benefit is it to anyone to withhold such vital information?

Why, business interests between the two countries of course! Why do you think the UK Police went over, did nuthin and then went back and told the families all was well with the investigation. And they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so!!

I think I read 160 million pounds of weapons inmlast few years and they also need the RTP on their side to pick up UK criminals. Its about u scratch by back and will scratch yours.

[Fat Haggis]

GB is clearly "baiting" here, and at best place him on ignore, or report his posts, his posts are 90% confrontational..