Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[StealthEnergiser]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

Half a dozen members of the Witheridge family, accompanied by British police officers, were in court in Koh Samui to hear testimony from a Thai forensics expert confirming that no DNA from the two accused had been found on the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe.

He explained that initial tests by Thailand’s independent Central Institute of Forensics (CIFS) on the hoe had revealed two people’s DNA - a male and a female. However when a further test was conducted on only the male DNA, using Y chromosome testing, it was actually found to be the DNA of two men, but neither matched the men in the dock today, or their friend who was close to the murder scene at the same time as then.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

[Basil B]

In this clip at 1.37 there is a hoe with no broken blade have the RTP switched the murder weapon at some stage or is it just there for reference.

So you know think the RTP switched the hoe, then put 2 peoples DNA on it who are not the B2 ? I thought they are meant to be stitching up the B2 not helping them get away with murder.

Well they are helping someone... (or more people get away with murder)...

Edited September 22, 2015 by Basil B

[fireplay]

I can't wait to see who will all be called to the stand by the defense in the coming days. Although it's not allowed, I do hope somebody has got audio of the hearings. I'm having a hard time understanding why there's still so little Thai media coverage.. That and the lack of transparency during court make things seem grim for the B2. As another poster said, They know everyone is watching this trial, it just does not matter.. Whatever is best for Thailand and Thai's will be the outcome... Horribly sad for all involved.

I just talked to my tgf about this and she said well its old news and thai people already know police to be liars and its nothing new or shocking. This is the way it has always been. I explained yes but for a sea of change to occur a crucial step is awareness and to keep pressure in the media will hopefully accomplish a shift.

She was silent and then showed me on the csila page the suspected yellow shirt bomber has admitted to the crime.

Thai folks seem complacent in the structure. There is nothing that can be done.

[BritTim]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

Half a dozen members of the Witheridge family, accompanied by British police officers, were in court in Koh Samui to hear testimony from a Thai forensics expert confirming that no DNA from the two accused had been found on the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe.

He explained that initial tests by Thailand’s independent Central Institute of Forensics (CIFS) on the hoe had revealed two people’s DNA - a male and a female. However when a further test was conducted on only the male DNA, using Y chromosome testing, it was actually found to be the DNA of two men, but neither matched the men in the dock today, or their friend who was close to the murder scene at the same time as then.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

I wonder if the following is significant:

However he did note there were similarities in the peaks and troughs of the profiles.

Does this indicate that the two males' profiles are likely to be from related individuals?

[thailandchilli]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

Half a dozen members of the Witheridge family, accompanied by British police officers, were in court in Koh Samui to hear testimony from a Thai forensics expert confirming that no DNA from the two accused had been found on the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe.

He explained that initial tests by Thailand’s independent Central Institute of Forensics (CIFS) on the hoe had revealed two people’s DNA - a male and a female. However when a further test was conducted on only the male DNA, using Y chromosome testing, it was actually found to be the DNA of two men, but neither matched the men in the dock today, or their friend who was close to the murder scene at the same time as then.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

If I'm reading that article correctly the lab technicians actually identified 3 separate DNA traces on the hoe. One male, one female and then on closer inspection discovered that the male DNA was made up of 2 separate male traces. So that again leaves the female DNA which is probably not Hannah's.

And a blonde hair found being clutched in Hannah's hand.

[scorecard]

"the court will need time to examine further evidence,"

It is more likely the court will need time to examine the lack of evidence.

It will take some convoluted reasoning for the court to find the accused guilty and that's not something that can be created quickly.

A question for those who are specifically knowledgeable about the Thai court processes;

many times before after a case all the judges have given a detailed report of why they (individually) decided their stance.

Does this apply to this specific case?

Please don't answer with opinions.

Please can we have someone who knows the answer respond.

[BritTim]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

Half a dozen members of the Witheridge family, accompanied by British police officers, were in court in Koh Samui to hear testimony from a Thai forensics expert confirming that no DNA from the two accused had been found on the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe.

He explained that initial tests by Thailand’s independent Central Institute of Forensics (CIFS) on the hoe had revealed two people’s DNA - a male and a female. However when a further test was conducted on only the male DNA, using Y chromosome testing, it was actually found to be the DNA of two men, but neither matched the men in the dock today, or their friend who was close to the murder scene at the same time as then.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

If I'm reading that article correctly the lab technicians actually identified 3 separate DNA traces on the hoe. One male, one female and then on closer inspection discovered that the male DNA was made up of 2 separate male traces. So that again leaves the female DNA which is probably not Hannah's.

And a blonde hair found being clutched in Hannah's hand.

My reading is that the female's DNA probably is Hannah's. The CIFS could not confirm it. However, on the assumption that the hoe was used to dismantle Hannah's head (which I think it was as Mon was determined that the hoe be identified as the murder weapon) it is hard to believe all trace of Hannah's DNA could have been washed away.

[StealthEnergiser]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

The prosecution presented evidence that DNA from both the accused men was found on Ms Witheridge’s body. However the defence lawyers insist their clients are innocent, and say they will put forward testimony this week which will prove the two Burmese men did not kill Ms Witheridge or Mr Miller.

The trial continues.

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

[JSN777]

hoehoe1.jpg

the original hoe below (notice the broken corner ) and hoe in the news clip above.

I do not understand your logic as we only see one side of the hoe at any given time. One side has a broken edge and my guess is the other side isn't broken - so the photo is of the unbroken side and the other photo shows the broken side - simple.

[fred Kubasa]

It took a year for the esteemed Thai Forensic " TEAM " to find out what a

real team could have in a few weeks at most and now, will the suspects be released with compensation, the interrogating " Team" admonished/disciplined/

punished ? Huh ?, Wat ?, Who? I dunno ?

[BritTim]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

The prosecution presented evidence that DNA from both the accused men was found on Ms Witheridge’s body. However the defence lawyers insist their clients are innocent, and say they will put forward testimony this week which will prove the two Burmese men did not kill Ms Witheridge or Mr Miller.

The trial continues.

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Grrr... as usual, much of the media reports conflict with each other. Hannah's DNA on the handle, but not blood? How can we construct a scenario that makes that possible?

[StealthEnergiser]

hoehoe1.jpg

the original hoe below (notice the broken corner ) and hoe in the news clip above.

I do not understand your logic as we only see one side of the hoe at any given time. One side has a broken edge and my guess is the other side isn't broken - so the photo is of the unbroken side and the other photo shows the broken side - simple.

You must be looking at different pictures than I am it is clearly two different hoes , look at the video also 1 hoe is not broken

[catsanddogs]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

Half a dozen members of the Witheridge family, accompanied by British police officers, were in court in Koh Samui to hear testimony from a Thai forensics expert confirming that no DNA from the two accused had been found on the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe.

He explained that initial tests by Thailand’s independent Central Institute of Forensics (CIFS) on the hoe had revealed two people’s DNA - a male and a female. However when a further test was conducted on only the male DNA, using Y chromosome testing, it was actually found to be the DNA of two men, but neither matched the men in the dock today, or their friend who was close to the murder scene at the same time as then.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

If I'm reading that article correctly the lab technicians actually identified 3 separate DNA traces on the hoe. One male, one female and then on closer inspection discovered that the male DNA was made up of 2 separate male traces. So that again leaves the female DNA which is probably not Hannah's.

And a blonde hair found being clutched in Hannah's hand.

from that EDP report -

Forensic Science Officer Worawee Waiyawuth said DNA testing in their laboratory showed Ms Witheridge had held the hoe handle for the longest time, leaving a DNA trace which was not blood, although her blood was on the blade. A full profile for David Miller was also found on the handle, along with an incomplete profile for a third male.

The prosecution asked Mr Waiyawuth if the third, incomplete, profile could belong to one of the suspects. He replied that only a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

As I read there is a feeling that the accused in this trial may not be the real culprits , despite DNA showing their semen inside the girl's body .

However , one should not overlook that in this case Thailand is on trial and not just its Justice system .

You should read more carefully the story....

Accrording to the police they found DNA on the body and inside a condom, then they said condom was not used, then say said found the DNA on the how but cannot find the original samples, then said they have found fingerprints on the hoe by looking at it with a magnifying glass, then not thought the blond hair found in the girl hand nay have some interest, they first suspected the son of the island head but then the policeguy who said that was transfered to another post, then, then...

[stephenterry]

Trial resumes in Thailand of two men accused of murdering Norfolk woman Hannah Witheridge

The prosecution presented evidence that DNA from both the accused men was found on Ms Witheridge’s body. However the defence lawyers insist their clients are innocent, and say they will put forward testimony this week which will prove the two Burmese men did not kill Ms Witheridge or Mr Miller.

The trial continues.

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Grrr... as usual, much of the media reports conflict with each other. Hannah's DNA on the handle, but not blood? How can we construct a scenario that makes that possible?

A scenario: Hannah used the hoe to protect herself, but it was taken over by David. Then he was overwhelmed by the attackers.

[thailandchilli]

This must be horrific listening for the Witherbridge family.

Forensic Science Officer Worawee Waiyawuth said DNA testing in their laboratory showed Ms Witheridge had held the hoe handle for the longest time, leaving a DNA trace which was not blood, although her blood was on the blade.

This scenario does not paint the picture put to us by the positioning of Hannah's body when found at the crime scene, instead it shows a lengthy struggle and fight put up by Hannah

[Madaussie]

The Mystery Deepens

"Today one of her science officers, from the Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) in Bangkok, testified that the majority of the DNA found on the murder weapon belonged to Ms Witheridge herself, and 24 year-old Mr Miller"

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/trial_resumes_in_thailand_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_woman_hannah_witheridge_1_4242304

[Madaussie]

This must be horrific listening for the Witherbridge family.

Forensic Science Officer Worawee Waiyawuth said DNA testing in their laboratory showed Ms Witheridge had held the hoe handle for the longest time, leaving a DNA trace which was not blood, although her blood was on the blade.

This scenario does not paint the picture put to us by the positioning of Hannah's body when found at the crime scene, instead it shows a lengthy struggle and fight put up by Hannah

It makes the final scene look even more like it was set in my mind.

[StealthEnergiser]

This must be horrific listening for the Witherbridge family.

Forensic Science Officer Worawee Waiyawuth said DNA testing in their laboratory showed Ms Witheridge had held the hoe handle for the longest time, leaving a DNA trace which was not blood, although her blood was on the blade.

This scenario does not paint the picture put to us by the positioning of Hannah's body when found at the crime scene, instead it shows a lengthy struggle and fight put up by Hannah

Yes it must be horrible for them, I think we still need more info on what hoe was tested , could it possible the killers have touched the wrong hoe on Hannah and David ?

If police are involved in the setup it is possible as they would know a bit about DNA and what to do.

I think the correct hoe has been tested and your scenario is correct but i hope we know more soon.

[ianf]

As I read there is a feeling that the accused in this trial may not be the real culprits , despite DNA showing their semen inside the girl's body .

However , one should not overlook that in this case Thailand is on trial and not just its Justice system .

Their semen inside the girl's body????? I thought that they found condoms nearby which supposedly matched the M2 DNA??????

[Madaussie]

As I read there is a feeling that the accused in this trial may not be the real culprits , despite DNA showing their semen inside the girl's body .

However , one should not overlook that in this case Thailand is on trial and not just its Justice system .

Their semen inside the girl's body????? I thought that they found condoms nearby which supposedly matched the M2 DNA??????

No match with DNA of the B2 and the condom. The only DNA was from Hannah so the police claimed however with their current track record of not identifying the DNA on the Hoe for example who knows the truth.

I am just waiting for AleG to pop along and tell us its all irrelevant as the B2 done it anyways.

[webfact]

The last four days of the Koh Tao murder trial

KOH SAMUI: -- Today, with only four days of the Koh Tao murder trial left to go, officials from the Central Institute of Forensic Science (CFIS) will testify for the defense in the Samui Provincial Court. According to Pornthip Rojanasunan, director general of the CIFS, who testified last week, three CIFS members who took part in the process of DNA testing and physical examination of the defendants will take the stand. Two of the members are doctors, one is a laboratory technician.

After a request from the defenses team the chief judge allowed Porntip to re-test the hoe that is said to be the murder weapon. Of the two DNA samples she found on the hoe, one complete and one partial, neither matched those of the defendants who continue to insist they are innocent of the crimes.

According to news reports Nakhon Chomphucaht, a lawyer for the defense team, an Australian DNA collection expert will testify in court tomorrow.

The police and public prosecutor have used DNA test results as evidence against Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo during the trial saying that samples taken from the female victims body match that of the accused. The defense has said that they need to focus on whether the DNA in that evidence was collected in line with international standards.

It is thought that on Thursday members of the National Human Rights Commission and the Lawyers Council of Thailand will testify in court about the human rights issues surrounding the treatment of the two Burmese migrant workers accused of the crimes. On Friday the court is expecting to hear testimony from the Myanmar Embassy highlighting the communication barrier between the accused and the interpreter used by the police during their investigation. The interpreter is of a different ethnic group to the accused and one that has been unfriendly towards the group the defendants belong to.

The defendant’s mothers were again in court today and will continue to support their sons during the final days of the trial. They have been in Koh Samui since the second week of the trial that has at times evoked emotional reactions from the widowed women who have found the trial very harrowing. Both believe their sons are innocent of the crimes and that justice will prevail. Unable to speak or understand Thai both woman have had trouble following exactly what has been going on but have had help from a Burmese translator and continue to be supported by members of the Burmese and ex-pat community.

Although Friday will mark the end of the trial, it could be some time before a verdict is read. One news report suggested that information from a “highly-placed source” suggests that the court would probably take a long time to reach a verdict as it would need to examine further evidence. No mention was made as to whether that evidence would come from the prosecution or the defense.

The accused continue to put on a brave face and are confident in the justice system they believe will not let them down. Having now spent three weeks shy of a year in prison, support from a local group, visits from their mothers and letters of support from around the world have helped keep their moral high. Their biggest worries being that during their incarceration they have been unable to send funds to their families who have previously been supported by their employment on the island of Koh Tao where the murders took place in September last year.


-- Samui Times 2015-09-22

[stephenterry]

What is becoming increasingly clearer is that a gift took place, perhaps with both Hannah and David wielding the hoe to protect themselves from a gang attack. Hardly the Rtp saying the b2 used the hoe. That's now not possible.

[stephenterry]

Fight not gift

[Madaussie]

What is becoming increasingly clearer is that a gift took place, perhaps with both Hannah and David wielding the hoe to protect themselves from a gang attack. Hardly the Rtp saying the b2 used the hoe. That's now not possible.

Dohhh.... am I daft sometimes Stephen...

Of course. That wasn't in the re-enactment was it. NO MENTION of it. Of course the police didn't know what had happened exactly they just wanted 2 bodies to take the wrap and concocted the story.

[bander]

hoehoe1.jpg

the original hoe below (notice the broken corner ) and hoe in the news clip above.

Leave the detective work to capable people; that is a leave in front of the blade, it's not a hole on the blade.

capable people?????

Did somebody just call RTP capable people?

[AGareth2]

was a gun then fired?

[Madaussie]

was a gun then fired?

Still waiting for the Autopsy revelations. They have to come out as they are conflicting with the Thai Autopsy.

[AGareth2]

the scene is looking different

[metisdead]

Trolling nonsense posts, inflammatory posts, off topic posts and replies have been removed.