Service charge on beer and food

[scoutman360]

Blame the Americans for this, where tips are no longer a gratuity, but an expectation... and yes I am an American. As my friend used to say, "Don't. You will upset the ecosystem."

[arminbkk]

I hardly ever tip. Not because I am cheap, but because the service received is not satisfactory enough to make a tip deserved.

When is it deserved? When the staff is REALLY friendly and welcoming and attentive and grateful that you

chose their establishment instead of next door.

As for service charge: if I am ever surprised with it after I've eaten and get the bill, I'll smile, pay, no tip, and make

a mental note to not return. Especially if the menu prices are already relatively high.

I'm not saying they should not include a service charge, they are free to do so, same as I am free to eat somewhere else.

As for the OP's question as to can one refuse to pay it: I guess if it is not advertised or mentioned

anywhere (menu, signboard or wherever), one could make a point of it and refuse.

OP should try it and see where it gets him.

[Thian]

If a 10 percent service charge is too much for you, times must be hard.

120 baht for a small "beer" + 10% service charge + 7% VAT is more than what I pay for a trapist in Belgium.

And for me - and others - times are not hard.

I spend half the year travelling in Europe, and pay the high price for that: high price, high quality.

The other half year I spend in Thailand, and pay the low price for that: low price, low quality.

It is not about being a cheapo, it is about value for money.

And about having choices.

What do you think of a pint Hoegaarden for 350 baht? They sell well in BKK.

I just pay whatever they ask but if the service is bad i'm not happy to pay service charge.

We ate in a Thai "steak house" the other day and i serious got 3 french fry's with my "steak". My wife got 5 very small ones So i ordered extra fries and that was 50 baht extra. Well it won't hurt me but i don't like that way of dining.

[puffy]

At last!! A sensible reply, thank you

I think you did very well to get a sensible answer so quickly. I have seen whole long threads without a single answer to a question,

Just judgments and bickering between the other posters. I really think mods should just delete all these stupid replies, like the one

about you just buying chips from 7/11.

To answer your question, You are required to pay service charge, and like you I don't tip if service charge is added.

However a few nights ago I went to a fairly expensive restaurant and they messed up the order and we had to wait over 1 hour to

get our food while everyone around us was receiving their's in about 20 minutes. We didn't pay the service charge and there was no

problem with this. They were just very apologetic for what happened. So I think if the service is obviously way below standard I would

not pay it.

[fey]

You never expect a service charge on a beer because places look like bars. Then they tack on the 18 baht saying its really a restaurant?

I would expect a service charge at a dinner, but not when sitting outside and having a beer.

They should include an option if you go in to order your beer then get up and pay inside after, the service charge does not apply. End up doing that more often then not anyhow.

[cyberfarang]

Last week my girlfriend and I with another couple ate at a local Thai restaurant, first time we have eaten there. We ordered a couple of beers and the lady placed the bottles in one of those metal buckets semi filled with ice.

When finished and the bill arrived, I noticed that we had been charged 30 baht for the few chunks of ice. Wasn't concerned about the 30 baht, just strange because that was the first time in my life I have been charged for ice. couldn`t be bothered asking why, the meal was only average anyway and doubt if we would go there again.

[SoiBiker]

You've never been charged for ice before?

That's weird. It's a pretty normal thing, I'm amazed you've managed to avoid it.

[TheSpade]

I must live in a different Bangkok from so many of the posters on TV.

Because 10% service charge + 7% VAT is pretty common in the majority of bars, pubs and restaurants I go to.

That includes mall restaurants, sukhumvit expat pubs, craft beer places, the latest "hot" new restaurants and more. It happens in many places these days.

When it happens I assume that to be the tip and don't tip further unless service was really good or the waiter friendly.

And getting charged for ice is standard in everywhere from the cheapo 100baht a big Leo places to the high end places charging 300B+ for a small beer.

A bucket is often 10-30B. If they just put some ice in your glass it's usually 5 baht. Unless you are a regular and know the staff and they'll often just give you ice in your glass / a separate glass for free/

Due to the fact they buy the ice in themselves as no one trusts the water here.

All very standard.

Edited December 30, 2015 by TheSpade

[tailspin]

For the OP, next to impossible to get out of a listed service charge on a bill, though you could offer to wash dishes.

Regarding the foreigners who think all tipping is a mandatory show of wealth, I always get a laugh out of those holier-than-thou types who think they are big spenders because they leave a 20-100 baht tip. Go on and really show off if you want and leave a 1000 baht tip. Now you are a somebody!

[rogeroc]

Last week my girlfriend and I with another couple ate at a local Thai restaurant, first time we have eaten there. We ordered a couple of beers and the lady placed the bottles in one of those metal buckets semi filled with ice.

When finished and the bill arrived, I noticed that we had been charged 30 baht for the few chunks of ice. Wasn't concerned about the 30 baht, just strange because that was the first time in my life I have been charged for ice. couldn`t be bothered asking why, the meal was only average anyway and doubt if we would go there again.

Charging for ice is the norm in Thai bars in Chiang Mai, (20 to 40 baht for a bucket). However at 200 baht for 4 large Tiger or 100 baht for 3 large Chang i never think to complain. I have never been charged for ice in a Western bar / restaurant in CM but then again the drinks are much more expensive.

[TheSpade]

For the OP, next to impossible to get out of a listed service charge on a bill, though you could offer to wash dishes.

Regarding the foreigners who think all tipping is a mandatory show of wealth, I always get a laugh out of those holier-than-thou types who think they are big spenders because they leave a 20-100 baht tip. Go on and really show off if you want and leave a 1000 baht tip. Now you are a somebody!

What I don't get is the people who are so tight about it. Leaving 20B on a 3,000baht dinner bill for example. Or moaning about their being a service charge of 10%.

10% is considered 'normal' for a tip isn't it?

The most I've ever paid was 400baht in one of the secret cocktail bars because the bill was around 4000B (for 4 cocktails) and the service impeccable.

The mixologists knew their stuff, they made cocktails to taste, had great service skills and were really friendly to talk to.

I imagine some people would think that I was "showing off" by tipping 400B but really it's just a 10% tip for great service and worth it.

[bill1369]

Normally 10 % but some also hit you for 7% vat as well

You will find it at the bottom of the menu or shown as ++ also on the display board outside if in a mall where there will be an advert for what you think is a bargain.

I generally avoid these places

I would much rather see a menu with the total price

I'd like to know where you are eating. I eat out nearly every night (admittedly same 8 or 10 spots) and all have the ++. I seen this trend rise more steadily over last 3 years. Now I have no idea of any nice place that doesn't have it.

BTW: The minimum wage is 300 baht for a 10-hr/day. Most places open around 10AM and close 10PM; a 12-hr/day for which employees are not compensated for 2-hrs of work. So I don't particularly mind if a 72-hr/workweek worker (if they do get 1 day off) shares in service charge splitting at the end of the month, especially when their salary is only 7,500-10,000B/mo. (Provided, of course, the boss isn't pocketing the service charges.)

[SoiBiker]

For the OP, next to impossible to get out of a listed service charge on a bill, though you could offer to wash dishes.

Regarding the foreigners who think all tipping is a mandatory show of wealth, I always get a laugh out of those holier-than-thou types who think they are big spenders because they leave a 20-100 baht tip. Go on and really show off if you want and leave a 1000 baht tip. Now you are a somebody!

What I don't get is the people who are so tight about it. Leaving 20B on a 3,000baht dinner bill for example. Or moaning about their being a service charge of 10%.

10% is considered 'normal' for a tip isn't it?

The most I've ever paid was 400baht in one of the secret cocktail bars because the bill was around 4000B (for 4 cocktails) and the service impeccable.

The mixologists knew their stuff, they made cocktails to taste, had great service skills and were really friendly to talk to.

I imagine some people would think that I was "showing off" by tipping 400B but really it's just a 10% tip for great service and worth it.

10% is considered normal in the USA. But this isn't the USA.

[saakura]

I know this term only from the US.

In more than four years I never came upon a bar or restaurant with "service charge" separately specified.

(does not mean that might be such places, but should be rare)

An appropriate tip can be given / coins left in the wrapper.

What an appropriate tip is not so easy for me to tell.

Depends on where in thailand you live in and what kind of establishments you dine in. In my 20 yrs in Bangkok (and visits to other major cities), Service Charge 10% is the norm in most high end (not necessarily high value) restaurants.

[JAS21]

Well heres a little story. We decided to go out last evening to a little Italian Restaurant where we have been before about six times in the last three months, usually with friends but sometimes for lunch on our own. I can't name the place but it's in Muang Thong Thani so some may know of it.

The owner, Italian I think, is not a natural host and I have never seen him chat at any table, his wife (Thai) is very pleasant though. In fact he tends to walk around looking slightly downwards most of the time.

I did phone and book a table but when we arrived there was no 'reserved sign' at any table and we ended up at a very small one and me facing a blank wall, so it wasnt a great start.

My wife ordered a beef salad and I ordered a Pizza.

Her meal arrived after ten minutes or so, mine arrived about another thirty minutes later, we did enquire as to where my Pizza was, think someone forgot! The owner cooks the Pizzas, the oven is in the restaurant and other chefs cook in the kitchen behind.

Now when the bill came, brought by his wife .... it listed in order.

Salad ..

Pizza ..

Vat ..

Drinks.

Total

So I gave my Credit Card but asked to look at the menu, just to check that nowhere on it was vat or service charge or ++. May wife did ask, this is vat? and was told yes. The amount didnt bear any relationship to what value it could have been, however calculated! just a round figure.

So the owner brings the credit card slip for me to sign and I mention the vat, at that he gets angry and says everyone pays vat don't you know, you are causing trouble and storms off ..

So wont be going there again. Pity as its a nice change from eating Thai food. Sometimes it pays just to give the 'Thai Smile' and keep quite... NO I didn't leave a tip......

Edited January 1, 2016 by JAS21

[fey]

For the OP, next to impossible to get out of a listed service charge on a bill, though you could offer to wash dishes.

Regarding the foreigners who think all tipping is a mandatory show of wealth, I always get a laugh out of those holier-than-thou types who think they are big spenders because they leave a 20-100 baht tip. Go on and really show off if you want and leave a 1000 baht tip. Now you are a somebody!

What I don't get is the people who are so tight about it. Leaving 20B on a 3,000baht dinner bill for example. Or moaning about their being a service charge of 10%.

10% is considered 'normal' for a tip isn't it?

The most I've ever paid was 400baht in one of the secret cocktail bars because the bill was around 4000B (for 4 cocktails) and the service impeccable.

The mixologists knew their stuff, they made cocktails to taste, had great service skills and were really friendly to talk to.

I imagine some people would think that I was "showing off" by tipping 400B but really it's just a 10% tip for great service and worth it.

10% is considered normal in the USA. But this isn't the USA.

No they demand the 15% minimum now, or 20% expected.

You can go into a bar and have the change thrown at you if you don't leave the expected dollar bill tip on a pint of beer.

That's why I'm so against tipping in thailand. I've just had enough of the bs. Good or bad service, i dont care. As long as i get what i order and pay what i see i figure its a fair deal and the rest of it is not my problem. I have enough problems of my own to worry about a waiters plight every time i sit out.

[swampdonkey]

Normally 10 % but some also hit you for 7% vat as well

You will find it at the bottom of the menu or shown as ++ also on the display board outside if in a mall where there will be an advert for what you think is a bargain.

I generally avoid these places

I would much rather see a menu with the total price

I'd like to know where you are eating. I eat out nearly every night (admittedly same 8 or 10 spots) and all have the ++. I seen this trend rise more steadily over last 3 years. Now I have no idea of any nice place that doesn't have it.

BTW: The minimum wage is 300 baht for a 10-hr/day. Most places open around 10AM and close 10PM; a 12-hr/day for which employees are not compensated for 2-hrs of work. So I don't particularly mind if a 72-hr/workweek worker (if they do get 1 day off) shares in service charge splitting at the end of the month, especially when their salary is only 7,500-10,000B/mo. (Provided, of course, the boss isn't pocketing the service charges.)

Sounds like you need to get out more

[blackcab]

I must live in a different Bangkok from so many of the posters on TV.

Because 10% service charge + 7% VAT is pretty common in the majority of bars, pubs and restaurants I go to.

That includes mall restaurants, sukhumvit expat pubs, craft beer places, the latest "hot" new restaurants and more. It happens in many places these days.

When it happens I assume that to be the tip and don't tip further unless service was really good or the waiter friendly.

And getting charged for ice is standard in everywhere from the cheapo 100baht a big Leo places to the high end places charging 300B+ for a small beer.

A bucket is often 10-30B. If they just put some ice in your glass it's usually 5 baht. Unless you are a regular and know the staff and they'll often just give you ice in your glass / a separate glass for free/

Due to the fact they buy the ice in themselves as no one trusts the water here.

All very standard.

You live in a different Bangkok to me for sure. Sukhumvit expat pubs:

Robin Hood = no ++

Royal Oak = no ++

Dubliner = no service charge but VAT added on.

[autanic]

Yes you have to pay it. But if they charge it, NEVER tip.

In essence the establishment has chosen to display their prices excluding any tax. They have also seen fit to charge a service charge usually around 12% or so.

When browsing the menu it may seem that prices are reasonable but when you add the (plus plus), it is a wise move to add around 1/5 or 20% to the bill total.

Perfectly legal if not entirely moral to the customer.

[flyDelight]

I guess service charge only be paid when the service was good, and with poor service you get a discount in stead. That would make sense. No good service - no pay service charge.

[blackcab]

I guess service charge only be paid when the service was good, and with poor service you get a discount in stead. That would make sense. No good service - no pay service charge.

That's called a tip. Which worked well until the ++ started appearing.

Edited January 2, 2016 by blackcab

[TheSpade]

What I don't get is the people who are so tight about it. Leaving 20B on a 3,000baht dinner bill for example. Or moaning about their being a service charge of 10%.

10% is considered 'normal' for a tip isn't it?

The most I've ever paid was 400baht in one of the secret cocktail bars because the bill was around 4000B (for 4 cocktails) and the service impeccable.

The mixologists knew their stuff, they made cocktails to taste, had great service skills and were really friendly to talk to.

I imagine some people would think that I was "showing off" by tipping 400B but really it's just a 10% tip for great service and worth it.

10% is considered normal in the USA. But this isn't the USA.

I don't care where I am. A tip is a tip for good service. Someone in Thailand earning 300B a day possibly needs it more than someone in the States.

You live in a different Bangkok to me for sure. Sukhumvit expat pubs:

Robin Hood = no ++

Royal Oak = no ++

Dubliner = no service charge but VAT added on.

Are those the only 3 expat pubs in Sukhumvit?

I thought the Robin Hood actually did charge VAT (though it may be included on the menu price yet shown separately on the bill?), though I can't be 100% sure I'm not exactly bothered about such trivial things.

The Game charge VAT + service charge. So there's at least 1. I'm sure it's not the only one.

Anyway 10% for table service isn't a bad deal IMO no matter how good or bad the service is.

I'd be a bit miffed at paying it in McDonalds or somewhere where I queue up, order my own food, take it to my own table and clear the rubbish away but when someone is taking my order at my table, bringing me my food / drinks and more often than not topping up my ice / beer when it's low than paying 10% is hardly worth losing sleep over.

Edited January 9, 2016 by TheSpade

[blackcab]

Of course they are not the only 3 expat pubs on Sukhumvit, but I think it's fair to say they cater for a higher proportion of expats and a lower proportion of tourists. As such it's not as easy for the pubs I mentioned to get away with charging ++ as more of their customers would vote with their feet and leave.

Game, on the other hand, is squarely in a tourist area and has a higher proportion of tourist customers who are unused to Bangkok pricing and are prepared to pay ++ during their 2 week millionaire holiday. Game's customers won't vote with their feet - they will get in a 500 baht tuk tuk instead.

Personally I choose to drink in the pubs I mentioned rather than pubs in tourist areas.

All decent sized pubs will charge VAT because 1. their turnover is over the VAT threshold and 2. it allows them to reclaim their input VAT. As an example, a pub the size of Robin Hood will hit the turnover threshold after only a couple of weeks of trading.

The Royal Oak and the Robin Hood do charge VAT but it is deducted from the price on the menu.

The Dubliner, on the other hand, adds the VAT on top of the menu price, making it a +.

Edited January 10, 2016 by blackcab

[BudRight]

I was charged service charge at a self service buffet a few weeks ago. When I argued about it they claimed they still had to cook the food. I'm sure if I'd cooked it myself they'd have said they still had to make the building.

[piewarmer]

10% service charge added at the end of the bill is just stealing. no argument.

the 7% VAT should be included into the menu price of each item, it isn't hard.

[Linky]

Service charge annoys me no end.

In malaysia the owner must post the employment contract near the door to show the staff get the service charge at the end of the month. However, at some places i found out that if staff do not meet their quota for drink sales then they dont get the charge. Its a con, pure and simple.

At such places i post on their facebook page often enough to annoy them. Its my own little personal protest.

[DogNo1]

I recently found out, to my amazement, that money in the tip jar at the coffee shop that I regularly frequent when I'm Tokyo is retained by the owner. It's on an American military installation and not technically a Japanese coffee shop but the owner is Japanese. As readers will know, tips are not left in true Japanese establishments. I had been leaving tips in the jar for years expecting that they would be divided between the food service people who work there. I no longer patronize the coffee shop and no longer talk to the owner. It would be interesting to investigate exactly where the 10% service charge in Thai restaurants goes. Does anybody know for a fact? I think that it's outrageous for an owner to keep money that is ostensibly for good service by the staff. It would be good to know if that is going on in Bangkok. If it is, it's just a price gouge. The money hustle in Thailand is pretty bad.

[ljd1308]

For the OP, next to impossible to get out of a listed service charge on a bill, though you could offer to wash dishes.

Regarding the foreigners who think all tipping is a mandatory show of wealth, I always get a laugh out of those holier-than-thou types who think they are big spenders because they leave a 20-100 baht tip. Go on and really show off if you want and leave a 1000 baht tip. Now you are a somebody!

What I don't get is the people who are so tight about it. Leaving 20B on a 3,000baht dinner bill for example. Or moaning about their being a service charge of 10%.

10% is considered 'normal' for a tip isn't it?

The most I've ever paid was 400baht in one of the secret cocktail bars because the bill was around 4000B (for 4 cocktails) and the service impeccable.

The mixologists knew their stuff, they made cocktails to taste, had great service skills and were really friendly to talk to.

I imagine some people would think that I was "showing off" by tipping 400B but really it's just a 10% tip for great service and worth it.

I don't think leaving a tip is the actual issue, it is being forced to leave set amount as a tip.

When I am out, I will usually leave a tip....depending on the service it will be 0-20%, but what if the service is abysmal, should I still be "forced" to pay an extra 10% for poor service?

I think that is the issue.

[Linky]

For the OP, next to impossible to get out of a listed service charge on a bill, though you could offer to wash dishes.

Regarding the foreigners who think all tipping is a mandatory show of wealth, I always get a laugh out of those holier-than-thou types who think they are big spenders because they leave a 20-100 baht tip. Go on and really show off if you want and leave a 1000 baht tip. Now you are a somebody!

What I don't get is the people who are so tight about it. Leaving 20B on a 3,000baht dinner bill for example. Or moaning about their being a service charge of 10%.

10% is considered 'normal' for a tip isn't it?

The most I've ever paid was 400baht in one of the secret cocktail bars because the bill was around 4000B (for 4 cocktails) and the service impeccable.

The mixologists knew their stuff, they made cocktails to taste, had great service skills and were really friendly to talk to.

I imagine some people would think that I was "showing off" by tipping 400B but really it's just a 10% tip for great service and worth it.

I don't think leaving a tip is the actual issue, it is being forced to leave set amount as a tip.

When I am out, I will usually leave a tip....depending on the service it will be 0-20%, but what if the service is abysmal, should I still be "forced" to pay an extra 10% for poor service?

I think that is the issue.

The starting point should be $0 for a tip and work up from there. Compulsory tip, as in service charge is a con.

[Familyaffairs]

If a 10 percent service charge is too much for you, times must be hard.

A dumb remark, and totally misses the point. As for myself; I can easily afford it, but prefer to tip the staff myself. Why? because business owners do not fully distribute the service charge collected to the staff, and I have no desire to enrich those that do not perform the service........that's why !