British-led Card Room raided by officials in South Pattaya

[Isitjustme]

Love your sense of humour hahaha

Like this is going to court.

Wasn't that the most recent public announcement, that it WAS going to court?

My impression is that passports and bail money are being held and the bridge suspects must appear in court.

If it is then i stand corrected.

still... what a farce!

Obviously the bridge club was raided with the intention of nabbing a gang of gamblers. When no gambling could be proven, the BIB didn't want to lose face and concocted this ridiculous "120 card" law otherwise would have had to slink out tails between their legs.

[Psychic]

I tend to agree. This will never make it to court, it'd just stir up the international mocking.

Nor will it be announced anytime soon that it isn't. That'd just start the questions of why all this is necessary.

So...a couple of weeks to "conclude investigations" and then the charges quietly dropped when nobody's looking.

[Jingthing]

I am beyond predictions. Face is involved.

[DrTuner]

I am beyond predictions. Face is involved.

That should make predicting very easy. The theater has been set, all one needs to do is to sit back and enjoy the show. You know, us being the guests here and all that jazz.

[donnybay]

I have not been though this whole thread, but some interesting reading on A.D."s

[novanova]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

3. All charges of gambling have been dropped.

4. Club members will NOT be going to court

5. The Pattaya Bridge Club is a member of the Thailand Bridge League. Thailand first played in the World Championships in 1966 and many overseas players come to play in a large tournament in Bangkok every year.

6. Charges of "illegal premises" have been dropped

7. The case against the bridge players is being wound up; passports and the 5,000b bail will be returned

8. Clutching at straws, officials have gone for the 1943 Playing Cards Act -
http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Playing%20cards.pdf - in an attempt to charge club manager Jeremy Watson

9. Many posts regarding that act are profoundly ignorant; the matter is not so clear as some may think.

10. See Sect. 8 of the Act.

- What is meant by "individual" and "possess"?

- Visitors to the club buy packs cards overseas and leave them at the club. Who is the "individual" who "possesses" these cards? Show me the law that says so.

- Thai legislation classifies bridge not as a "game" but a "mind sport". Does the Playing Cards Act apply to a "mind sport"? Show me the law that says so.

Lawyers are examining those matters and many more.

[mydee]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

3. All charges of gambling have been dropped.

4. Club members will NOT be going to court

5. The Pattaya Bridge Club is a member of the Thailand Bridge League. Thailand first played in the World Championships in 1966 and many overseas players come to play in a large tournament in Bangkok every year.

6. Charges of "illegal premises" have been dropped

7. The case against the bridge players is being wound up; passports and the 5,000b bail will be returned

8. Clutching at straws, officials have gone for the 1943 Playing Cards Act -

http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Playing%20cards.pdf - in an attempt to charge club manager Jeremy Watson

9. Many posts regarding that act are profoundly ignorant; the matter is not so clear as some may think.

10. See Sect. 8 of the Act.

- What is meant by "individual" and "possess"?

- Visitors to the club buy packs cards overseas and leave them at the club. Who is the "individual" who "possesses" these cards? Show me the law that says so.

- Thai legislation classifies bridge not as a "game" but a "mind sport". Does the Playing Cards Act apply to a "mind sport"? Show me the law that says so.

Lawyers are examining those matters and many more

Good post it encapsulates the issues that a lot of people here have misunderstood.

You might also have added that, in relation to any matters outstanding against Mr Watson, the statutory provisions that have been quoted here are translations. I would be far more confident of predicting an outcome to these issues if I could see (and understand) the original Thai. I am not sure whether Thailand publishesexplanatory material that accompanies the legislation such as the speeches, memorandum or Press Releases. These may provide a better understanding of the possible outcome .

[SiSePuede419]

"Can you, personally, know of anybody who knows every Thai law which is still active 80 years after it was introduced?"

Can you name one country in the world where ignorance of the law "gets you off"?

555

[soalbundy]

"Can you, personally, know of anybody who knows every Thai law which is still active 80 years after it was introduced?"

Can you name one country in the world where ignorance of the law "gets you off"?

555

Not 'get you off' perhaps but outdated laws wouldn't result in a prosecution per se, or have you ever heard of anyone being prosecuted in the UK for for not practising bow and arrow shooting on a Sunday in the UK ?

[elgordo38]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

3. All charges of gambling have been dropped.

4. Club members will NOT be going to court

5. The Pattaya Bridge Club is a member of the Thailand Bridge League. Thailand first played in the World Championships in 1966 and many overseas players come to play in a large tournament in Bangkok every year.

6. Charges of "illegal premises" have been dropped

7. The case against the bridge players is being wound up; passports and the 5,000b bail will be returned

8. Clutching at straws, officials have gone for the 1943 Playing Cards Act -

http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Playing%20cards.pdf - in an attempt to charge club manager Jeremy Watson

9. Many posts regarding that act are profoundly ignorant; the matter is not so clear as some may think.

10. See Sect. 8 of the Act.

- What is meant by "individual" and "possess"?

- Visitors to the club buy packs cards overseas and leave them at the club. Who is the "individual" who "possesses" these cards? Show me the law that says so.

- Thai legislation classifies bridge not as a "game" but a "mind sport". Does the Playing Cards Act apply to a "mind sport"? Show me the law that says so.

Lawyers are examining those matters and many more.

Quote

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

Unquote

Who is DOPA some "elite" police force?

It seems the complaint was made to the Prime Ministers office. This sounds like a high level complaint to the PM's office and I am sure the PM was aware of the raid and yet has said nothing? Really strange?

It also seems strange that the lady who is the daughter of the founder of Bangkok Bank could not get these charges quashed unless these results are the fruits of her efforts.

[elgordo38]

Had a look in Thai Raht over the last week but couldn't see anything

Question - is there anything like Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich's interview in the unmentionable paper detailing how bad this is for Thailand's image and likely damage to the tourist industry appearing in any of the Thai language press?

I think more might be interested in this if it did.

The baht is on a strengthening curve at present. As a lot of other Asia currencies are rebalancing I find this rather strange.

[novanova]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

3. All charges of gambling have been dropped.

4. Club members will NOT be going to court

5. The Pattaya Bridge Club is a member of the Thailand Bridge League. Thailand first played in the World Championships in 1966 and many overseas players come to play in a large tournament in Bangkok every year.

6. Charges of "illegal premises" have been dropped

7. The case against the bridge players is being wound up; passports and the 5,000b bail will be returned

8. Clutching at straws, officials have gone for the 1943 Playing Cards Act -

http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Playing%20cards.pdf - in an attempt to charge club manager Jeremy Watson

9. Many posts regarding that act are profoundly ignorant; the matter is not so clear as some may think.

10. See Sect. 8 of the Act.

- What is meant by "individual" and "possess"?

- Visitors to the club buy packs cards overseas and leave them at the club. Who is the "individual" who "possesses" these cards? Show me the law that says so.

- Thai legislation classifies bridge not as a "game" but a "mind sport". Does the Playing Cards Act apply to a "mind sport"? Show me the law that says so.

Lawyers are examining those matters and many more.

Quote

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

Unquote

Who is DOPA some "elite" police force?

It seems the complaint was made to the Prime Ministers office. This sounds like a high level complaint to the PM's office and I am sure the PM was aware of the raid and yet has said nothing? Really strange?

It also seems strange that the lady who is the daughter of the founder of Bangkok Bank could not get these charges quashed unless these results are the fruits of her efforts.

Department of Provincial Administration. You could have found that out by Googling: thailand dopa

There was no "high level complaint". If you had read the FACTS I posted earlier, a Thai nutter is trying to cause trouble for the building owner and she made baseless allegations of gambling to the PM's office.

Khunying Sophonpanich DID get charges quashed (gambling, use of unregistered premises). The taxation dept is now involved; their investigations cannot be stopped. The club has several grounds for being confident that the charges will be dismissed in court.

[billd766]

"Can you, personally, know of anybody who knows every Thai law which is still active 80 years after it was introduced?"

Can you name one country in the world where ignorance of the law "gets you off"?

555

So everybody in the world should really know every single law, no matter how old or outdated, of every country they visit?

Why would anybody need a lawyer if they did?

Even the Thai police had to go back to a 1935 or a 1943 law because THEY didn't know the law either just to save face.

[Jingthing]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

...

You are confident about all these "facts" based on what exactly?

I'm particularly curious about the detail of the large number of players who had their passports confiscated plus 5000 baht.

Do they all have both of those back, OR NOT?

If not, do they have to go to a court date about the case, OR NOT?

Are they being charged for something, OR NOT?

Is the players case unrelated to the club runner's case?

How do YOU know for certain?

[harrry]

Dopa is the district office. The Council. I think Germany has a descriptive word for this office....Rathaus.

[elgordo38]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

3. All charges of gambling have been dropped.

4. Club members will NOT be going to court

5. The Pattaya Bridge Club is a member of the Thailand Bridge League. Thailand first played in the World Championships in 1966 and many overseas players come to play in a large tournament in Bangkok every year.

6. Charges of "illegal premises" have been dropped

7. The case against the bridge players is being wound up; passports and the 5,000b bail will be returned

8. Clutching at straws, officials have gone for the 1943 Playing Cards Act -

http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Playing%20cards.pdf - in an attempt to charge club manager Jeremy Watson

9. Many posts regarding that act are profoundly ignorant; the matter is not so clear as some may think.

10. See Sect. 8 of the Act.

- What is meant by "individual" and "possess"?

- Visitors to the club buy packs cards overseas and leave them at the club. Who is the "individual" who "possesses" these cards? Show me the law that says so.

- Thai legislation classifies bridge not as a "game" but a "mind sport". Does the Playing Cards Act apply to a "mind sport"? Show me the law that says so.

Lawyers are examining those matters and many more.

Quote

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

Unquote

Who is DOPA some "elite" police force?

It seems the complaint was made to the Prime Ministers office. This sounds like a high level complaint to the PM's office and I am sure the PM was aware of the raid and yet has said nothing? Really strange?

It also seems strange that the lady who is the daughter of the founder of Bangkok Bank could not get these charges quashed unless these results are the fruits of her efforts.

Department of Provincial Administration. You could have found that out by Googling: thailand dopa

There was no "high level complaint". If you had read the FACTS I posted earlier, a Thai nutter is trying to cause trouble for the building owner and she made baseless allegations of gambling to the PM's office.

Khunying Sophonpanich DID get charges quashed (gambling, use of unregistered premises). The taxation dept is now involved; their investigations cannot be stopped. The club has several grounds for being confident that the charges will be dismissed in court.

Thanks Teach for your very stern reprimand. You can put the ruler away now. I did try and Google DOPA but must have hit the E instead of the A. My mistake. What would TV be without someone like you to put us back on the straight and narrow again when we stumble. I did read the FACTS you posted earlier but then there are soo many FACTS FLYING around on TV its hard to separate FACT from FICTION but stupid me did not realize that you were related to MOSES and the 9 commandments ooops sorry 10 my mistake again. It would please me immensely (hope I spelled that right yes its right I Googled it) if you strictly corrected me whenever I FLOUNDER and F things up.

[novanova]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

...

You are confident about all these "facts" based on what exactly?

I'm particularly curious about the detail of the large number of players who had their passports confiscated plus 5000 baht.

Do they all have both of those back, OR NOT?

If not, do they have to go to a court date about the case, OR NOT?

Are they being charged for something, OR NOT?

Is the players case unrelated to the club runner's case?

How do YOU know for certain?

I attended the police station, along with all other players on Sun/Mon, to receive an apology. We will be refunded the 5,000b and have passports returned, when the court paperwork is undone.

For the Nth time, the bridgepayers WILL NOT BE GOING TO COURT. All charges regarding the players en masse HAVE BEEN DROPPED.

Yes, the 120 cards/card tax matter is unrelated. We have genuine grounds for challenging that.

[harrry]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

...

You are confident about all these "facts" based on what exactly?

I'm particularly curious about the detail of the large number of players who had their passports confiscated plus 5000 baht.

Do they all have both of those back, OR NOT?

If not, do they have to go to a court date about the case, OR NOT?

Are they being charged for something, OR NOT?

Is the players case unrelated to the club runner's case?

How do YOU know for certain?

I attended the police station, along with all other players on Sun/Mon, to receive an apology. We will be refunded the 5,000b and have passports returned, when the court paperwork is undone.

For the Nth time, the bridgepayers WILL NOT BE GOING TO COURT. All charges regarding the players en masse HAVE BEEN DROPPED.

Yes, the 120 cards/card tax matter is unrelated. We have genuine grounds for challenging that.

Until you have your passports and money I do not believe you can state that. I believe the power struggle continues.

[Jingthing]

Thanks nova.

The confident nature of your previous FACTS list would have made more sense if you had just said that before.

In any, case, there are still conflicting accounts in the so called press, so I guess we'll all see how this shakes out, and good luck to all the bridge players involved.

[Basil B]

Yes, thanks Nova.

With so much on this, that is the first I have heard regarding what I assume is there defiantly will be no court case from someone in the know.

What happened was totally outrageous, particularly as if true that the Police and "others" had to dig deep into their law books to find and outdated law to "trump Up" charges against the players.

This seems akin to a medieval witch hunt based on false allegations, lucky they did not get out the ducking stool or it modern equivalent the water board to get confessions.

And thanks to Pattaya One for bringing us the story.

[soalbundy]

Doesn't matter what Thailand does now, the damage has been done, the authorities are now reloading the gun to shoot the other foot which already has so many holes in it.

[Basil B]

Doesn't matter what Thailand does now, the damage has been done, the authorities are now reloading the gun to shoot the other foot which already has so many holes in it.

Gives meaning to the saying "They do not have a leg to stand on".

[sambum]

Yes, thanks Nova.

With so much on this, that is the first I have heard regarding what I assume is there defiantly will be no court case from someone in the know.

What happened was totally outrageous, particularly as if true that the Police and "others" had to dig deep into their law books to find and outdated law to "trump Up" charges against the players.

This seems akin to a medieval witch hunt based on false allegations, lucky they did not get out the ducking stool or it modern equivalent the water board to get confessions.

And thanks to Pattaya One for bringing us the story.

" there defiantly will be no court case" I like it! In fact, I definitely like it!

[JSixpack]

Doesn't matter what Thailand does now, the damage has been done, the authorities are now reloading the gun to shoot the other foot which already has so many holes in it.

Actually it doesn't matter what damage TVF posters say and HOPE has been done, there really hasn't been any that will make the slightest difference in anything except maybe to the very few who play bridge, temporarily.

Internationally, the few who read of the incident may smile or cluck but still won't be put off from coming to Thailand for the usual reasons, one of which isn't to play bridge. It doesn't matter if a few claim they'll change their vacation plans. I know a perfect example of a guy who swore he'd never return to Pattaya 'cause of this and that, the usual list. But guess what--of course w/o mentioning his earlier vow.

Sorry but the hysteria just reflects the usual sense of farang grandeur and hopes for punishment of the stupid, wicked Thais, partly out of bigotry. (Partly.) You wanna see REAL hysteria and measure the accuracy of predictions of "shooting in the foot," you have to go back more than a decade.

Ruling out the foreigner was a 17-page "killing the goose" bash fest, grandaddy of them all, in 2003 prompted by the news that after many years Thailand would dare raise visa fees! OMG. THIS WAS IT. The teeth gnashing, the hair pulling, the knickers twisting; the ranting, the wailing, the screaming, the anguish, the shock, the confusion, the accusations of insanity, and of course the dire prophecies! No one would be left to shop in the malls, no one would buy condos, bar girls would disappear, and Thais would all have to return to work in rice paddies. Back to the Stone Age! Oh, it was gonna be a thousand million times worse than later prophecies of the total destruction of Pattaya tourism by widening Beach Road. Go read the thread and laugh—or cry.

I guess Thais don't read TVF or don't get the memos, as construction continued unabated on Siam Paragon (2005) and Central World (2006), both confidently predicted to fail upon opening, just like, later on, Pattaya's Big C Extra and CentralFestival Pattaya Beach.

Nah, from a macro perspective, not even the tiniest blip on radar. Suck it up.

[Basil B]

Yes, thanks Nova.

With so much on this, that is the first I have heard regarding what I assume is there defiantly will be no court case from someone in the know.

What happened was totally outrageous, particularly as if true that the Police and "others" had to dig deep into their law books to find and outdated law to "trump Up" charges against the players.

This seems akin to a medieval witch hunt based on false allegations, lucky they did not get out the ducking stool or it modern equivalent the water board to get confessions.

And thanks to Pattaya One for bringing us the story.

" there defiantly will be no court case" I like it! In fact, I definitely like it!

As I pointed out in another thread Spellcheckers have an IQ of zero.

and I did qualify that statement with "I assume"...

[brewsterbudgen]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

3. All charges of gambling have been dropped.

4. Club members will NOT be going to court

5. The Pattaya Bridge Club is a member of the Thailand Bridge League. Thailand first played in the World Championships in 1966 and many overseas players come to play in a large tournament in Bangkok every year.

6. Charges of "illegal premises" have been dropped

7. The case against the bridge players is being wound up; passports and the 5,000b bail will be returned

8. Clutching at straws, officials have gone for the 1943 Playing Cards Act -

http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Playing%20cards.pdf - in an attempt to charge club manager Jeremy Watson

9. Many posts regarding that act are profoundly ignorant; the matter is not so clear as some may think.

10. See Sect. 8 of the Act.

- What is meant by "individual" and "possess"?

- Visitors to the club buy packs cards overseas and leave them at the club. Who is the "individual" who "possesses" these cards? Show me the law that says so.

- Thai legislation classifies bridge not as a "game" but a "mind sport". Does the Playing Cards Act apply to a "mind sport"? Show me the law that says so.

Lawyers are examining those matters and many more.

Quote

1. Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA.

2. They were there after false allegations of gambling (and only gambling) were made to the Office of the Prime Minister.

Unquote

Who is DOPA some "elite" police force?

It seems the complaint was made to the Prime Ministers office. This sounds like a high level complaint to the PM's office and I am sure the PM was aware of the raid and yet has said nothing? Really strange?

It also seems strange that the lady who is the daughter of the founder of Bangkok Bank could not get these charges quashed unless these results are the fruits of her efforts.

Department of Provincial Administration. You could have found that out by Googling: thailand dopa

There was no "high level complaint". If you had read the FACTS I posted earlier, a Thai nutter is trying to cause trouble for the building owner and she made baseless allegations of gambling to the PM's office.

Khunying Sophonpanich DID get charges quashed (gambling, use of unregistered premises). The taxation dept is now involved; their investigations cannot be stopped. The club has several grounds for being confident that the charges will be dismissed in court.

So there will be a court case

[elgordo38]

HERE ARE SOME FACTS.

...

You are confident about all these "facts" based on what exactly?

I'm particularly curious about the detail of the large number of players who had their passports confiscated plus 5000 baht.

Do they all have both of those back, OR NOT?

If not, do they have to go to a court date about the case, OR NOT?

Are they being charged for something, OR NOT?

Is the players case unrelated to the club runner's case?

How do YOU know for certain?

I attended the police station, along with all other players on Sun/Mon, to receive an apology. We will be refunded the 5,000b and have passports returned, when the court paperwork is undone.

For the Nth time, the bridgepayers WILL NOT BE GOING TO COURT. All charges regarding the players en masse HAVE BEEN DROPPED.

Yes, the 120 cards/card tax matter is unrelated. We have genuine grounds for challenging that.

An apology and a handshake would have solved the whole thing but the BIB have dug their heels in like a pit

bull with a bone in its mouth. Again they are trying to save some small remnant of face here. Thailand is a tourist centre for God's sake walk away you lost your face is on every dart board in the world. The 120 cards/card tax matter is just so much petty BS. There is a slight chance you will win in your petty mind and of course the sympathetic court system here but in the face of the world not so much. Being a tourist mecca the police should have a certain amount of decorum but it is truly lacking here. Training training training lacking entirely. Who said the wild wild west/east was dead.

[sambum]

Yes, thanks Nova.

With so much on this, that is the first I have heard regarding what I assume is there defiantly will be no court case from someone in the know.

What happened was totally outrageous, particularly as if true that the Police and "others" had to dig deep into their law books to find and outdated law to "trump Up" charges against the players.

This seems akin to a medieval witch hunt based on false allegations, lucky they did not get out the ducking stool or it modern equivalent the water board to get confessions.

And thanks to Pattaya One for bringing us the story.

" there defiantly will be no court case" I like it! In fact, I definitely like it!

As I pointed out in another thread Spellcheckers have an IQ of zero.

and I did qualify that statement with "I assume"...

I still like it!

[Tolley]

Doesn't matter what Thailand does now, the damage has been done, the authorities are now reloading the gun to shoot the other foot which already has so many holes in it.

Actually it doesn't matter what damage TVF posters say and HOPE has been done, there really hasn't been any that will make the slightest difference in anything except maybe to the very few who play bridge, temporarily.

Internationally, the few who read of the incident may smile or cluck but still won't be put off from coming to Thailand for the usual reasons, one of which isn't to play bridge. It doesn't matter if a few claim they'll change their vacation plans. I know a perfect example of a guy who swore he'd never return to Pattaya 'cause of this and that, the usual list. But guess what--of course w/o mentioning his earlier vow.

Sorry but the hysteria just reflects the usual sense of farang grandeur and hopes for punishment of the stupid, wicked Thais, partly out of bigotry. (Partly.) You wanna see REAL hysteria and measure the accuracy of predictions of "shooting in the foot," you have to go back more than a decade.

Ruling out the foreigner was a 17-page "killing the goose" bash fest, grandaddy of them all, in 2003 prompted by the news that after many years Thailand would dare raise visa fees! OMG. THIS WAS IT. The teeth gnashing, the hair pulling, the knickers twisting; the ranting, the wailing, the screaming, the anguish, the shock, the confusion, the accusations of insanity, and of course the dire prophecies! No one would be left to shop in the malls, no one would buy condos, bar girls would disappear, and Thais would all have to return to work in rice paddies. Back to the Stone Age! Oh, it was gonna be a thousand million times worse than later prophecies of the total destruction of Pattaya tourism by widening Beach Road. Go read the thread and laughor cry.

I guess Thais don't read TVF or don't get the memos, as construction continued unabated on Siam Paragon (2005) and Central World (2006), both confidently predicted to fail upon opening, just like, later on, Pattaya's Big C Extra and CentralFestival Pattaya Beach.

Nah, from a macro perspective, not even the tiniest blip on radar. Suck it up.

The thais couldn't give a flying fukc really.

They never have in the past. So there is no reason to suspect they will now.

And the tourists keep coming and if they get really desperate they lower the air fares real low and just rip the tourists off more when they arrive.

[donnybay]

"Here are the facts" poster "Neither the police nor the army raided the club. The raid was conducted by DOPA"

Who are the guys in Army uniform then at 0:52 in this video?