Motorbike accident - will the police do anything? How to access cameras?

[taninthai]

LivinLOS: are you saying you made false statements for the police report with the help of your lawyer and the police?

You admit that you had broken the law and are at least partially guilty for the accident and yet proud that you used your financial power to put some young girl in a lot of trouble and make her life really hard for a bunch of years?

I didn't read all the details at first but yes it appears that's what he did,off coarse this is an anonymous forum and could be a made up story or exagerrated a little ,either way it's not something I would do and certainly wouldn't be proudly boasting about it on a forum acting like the superior being just because I had more funds than the other person

[thailand49]

I think the above story is pretty heartless ,I would have just claimed from my own insurance and given the 20 year old girl a break.

I agree, in relationship to the original poster this would seem heartless although I'm sure it doesn't seem to this guy. The more I read the more I get this has nothing to do with people making a mistake whether they have anything or not? It's about Power and Money and how you can use it to push people around. You have a minor fender bender and because you have the ability to do so you get yourself a lawyer etc.. and put the squeeze on someone for a lousy mirror or a broken fender on you bike, One spends 27,000 baht etc... when the replacement is 2,000 baht? And if one doesn't want to spend it they are a cheap charlie. What a wonderful way to live here because you have the means and so call power and influence to do so. I would just make the replacement 2,000 baht, write it off as a lost, take the other 25,000 baht and head down to W.S and have a blast of a party!

That is my final word on this matter.

[LivinLOS]

I think the above story is pretty heartless ,I would have just claimed from my own insurance and given the 20 year old girl a break.

Motorbike.. Cant get insurance on old big bikes..

She put me directly out of pocket 1 million baht.. And made one leg shorter than the other.. forever.. 2 operations already.. 1 more to look forward to..

She choose to drive without a license, or insurance, in an untaxed car.. Then do a U turn on a superhighway without looking.. then tried to run away and pretend it didnt happen.

Edited March 8, 2016 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

LivinLOS: are you saying you made false statements for the police report with the help of your lawyer and the police?

You admit that you had broken the law and are at least partially guilty for the accident and yet proud that you used your financial power to put some young girl in a lot of trouble and make her life really hard for a bunch of years?

I didn't read all the details at first but yes it appears that's what he did,off coarse this is an anonymous forum and could be a made up story or exagerrated a little ,either way it's not something I would do and certainly wouldn't be proudly boasting about it on a forum acting like the superior being just because I had more funds than the other person

I was doing more than the stated on the court speed.. But I was doing the speed limit..

I was in the left lane of a dual carriadgeway, not the hard shoulder where they want scooters to ride..

She did a U turn and didnt look.. 100% her fault.

[taninthai]

I think the above story is pretty heartless ,I would have just claimed from my own insurance and given the 20 year old girl a break.

Motorbike.. Cant get insurance on old big bikes..

She put me directly out of pocket 1 million baht.. And made one leg shorter than the other.. forever.. 2 operations already.. 1 more to look forward to..

She choose to drive without a license, or insurance, in an untaxed car.. Then do a U turn on a superhighway without looking.. then tried to run away and pretend it didnt happen.

can't really use the argument she choose to drive with no insurance when it also appears you choose to drive with no insurance so both as bad as each other really,i just think shit happens all the time in thailand and you have to do your best to prepare for it,decent travel insurance would have covered accident costs and hospital bills bullying a poor young girl and her family is not the way i would choose to do things..you put yourself 1 million out of pocket by not having insurance in place.i suppose we all have different ways of dealing with things.

[LivinLOS]

I think the above story is pretty heartless ,I would have just claimed from my own insurance and given the 20 year old girl a break.

Motorbike.. Cant get insurance on old big bikes..

She put me directly out of pocket 1 million baht.. And made one leg shorter than the other.. forever.. 2 operations already.. 1 more to look forward to..

She choose to drive without a license, or insurance, in an untaxed car.. Then do a U turn on a superhighway without looking.. then tried to run away and pretend it didnt happen.

can't really use the argument she choose to drive with no insurance when it also appears you choose to drive with no insurance so both as bad as each other really,i just think shit happens all the time in thailand and you have to do your best to prepare for it,decent travel insurance would have covered accident costs and hospital bills bullying a poor young girl and her family is not the way i would choose to do things..you put yourself 1 million out of pocket by not having insurance in place.i suppose we all have different ways of dealing with things.

Well I had the most insurance you can get for a big bike from the parts import era.. The government standard legal insurance pays out 30k.. She had nothing, no license, no road tax, no insurance, just 100% illegal. Her mother even said about the accident "I dont know why it happened, shed been driving for 4 years" so driving from 16..

Also.. As is usual, there more to the story. Not that I need to justify it, but it went like this.

The accident happens, 100% her fault, she just didnt look when she turned on a dual carriageway, and I get banged up.

I go to hospital, get patched up, compounded leg set and plated.. Hand 3 pins and a screw in my wrist.. The end result of a car driver not looking.. Suck but thems the breaks. You know that when you ride here.

The bill for all this was a bit under 240k.. Remember when I said they were brought to the hospital ?? They were summoned to the hospital when I was a day or two short of discharge, a year of rehab, pain and no work ahead, but ready to leave. I personally got the accounting department to discount the bill, multiple times, until it was down to 190k and change.. I also had my wife run around the police stations, getting reports and files, so that they knock the 30k government insurance off the top of the bill also. The actual bill to pay then stood at 16X something.

When they were asked to visit the hospital, the day prior to my due release, I set up a meeting with the hospital accounting senior woman (great people to work with at RAM BTW) to also be there. She told the family that the hospital would put the bill on credit with them, and they could make stage payments over a couple of years, and they just needed to bring their tabien baan and the chanote of the land their house was on, which they said they had. This would allow them to set up a credit account.

We had the meeting, I told the girl, if she picked up that bill, the 160k left from the hospital, I would eat the rest.. My bike, my watch, my further operations, pain, injury, suffering, loss of work, etc etc etc.. Everything else I would take the hit, all she had to do was pay 160k over a couple of years, which even that was only about 2/3rds of the original hospital bill. Pretty fair I think ? and I did all the setting up, discussions, proposal, made a plan that was possible, all in a haze of pain and drugs. I felt if she at least took responsibility for her actions that far, I would feel she tried and karma would work it all out. C'est la vie..

Her and her mother agreed to do this.. In front of the hospital accounts woman, my lawyer, etc etc.. It was all agreed.. They would return tomorrow, with the paperwork, I would be discharged tomorrow, and they would settle 160k over term.. And I would eat the rest and it was over. Wais all round, smiles and agreement, assurances not to worry and 'they had this' etc etc..

The next day morning comes.. No show.. I call her.. Phone off.. My lawyer calls her.. Phones off.. My lawyer gets the police involved, who track the mothers phone from files.. Phones off.. I am waiting, in pain, in a hospital bed, not knowing if I can leave, go, stay whatever.. if they are coming after school, if shes in class, whats going on.. They just lied, in front of everyone, then ran and hid from the problem they caused and hoped it would all go away.

I ended up staying an additional day (obviously the above took all day to realize the deal they made the day before, they were not going to honour).. With much embarrassment with the hospital coming every hour asking if I am going ?? Which I couldnt answer.. Next morning I paid it cash and discharged myself.

Days went by, but the police ended up getting them, and forcing them to a mediation at the station.. I then gave them another chance. Pay me the 160k hospital bill, with no credit now, and I would still let it go.. This time I was a lot less forgiving and nice about it.. Sure 160k is a lot, but they can send her to payap university ?? They can afford get her a car to go there not a scooter ?? Anyway I gave them one more chance.. pay me 160k and its over, no court, no case, none of the other bills, settling for 20% of the actual damage. They refused, i think the mother offered me 10k baht.

So I told them, not paying the hospital bill would be the biggest mistake they made. They had the chance to settle for a fraction and I would figure the rest is just life, its not my first bike wreck, I choose to wear a platinum watch, etc etc.. They decided to fight me. She tried to avoid even the most basic responsibility for an accident she totally admits she black and white caused.

Fine, then I have to fight.. When I fight I win... All the chips !!

[dingerbel]

I think the above story is pretty heartless ,I would have just claimed from my own insurance and given the 20 year old girl a break.

Motorbike.. Cant get insurance on old big bikes..

She put me directly out of pocket 1 million baht.. And made one leg shorter than the other.. forever.. 2 operations already.. 1 more to look forward to..

She choose to drive without a license, or insurance, in an untaxed car.. Then do a U turn on a superhighway without looking.. then tried to run away and pretend it didnt happen.

can't really use the argument she choose to drive with no insurance when it also appears you choose to drive with no insurance so both as bad as each other really,i just think shit happens all the time in thailand and you have to do your best to prepare for it,decent travel insurance would have covered accident costs and hospital bills bullying a poor young girl and her family is not the way i would choose to do things..you put yourself 1 million out of pocket by not having insurance in place.i suppose we all have different ways of dealing with things.

Well I had the most insurance you can get for a big bike from the parts import era.. The government standard legal insurance pays out 30k.. She had nothing, no license, no road tax, no insurance, just 100% illegal. Her mother even said about the accident "I dont know why it happened, shed been driving for 4 years" so driving from 16..

Also.. As is usual, there more to the story. Not that I need to justify it, but it went like this.

The accident happens, 100% her fault, she just didnt look when she turned on a dual carriageway, and I get banged up.

I go to hospital, get patched up, compounded leg set and plated.. Hand 3 pins and a screw in my wrist.. The end result of a car driver not looking.. Suck but thems the breaks. You know that when you ride here.

The bill for all this was a bit under 240k.. Remember when I said they were brought to the hospital ?? They were summoned to the hospital when I was a day or two short of discharge, a year of rehab, pain and no work ahead, but ready to leave. I personally got the accounting department to discount the bill, multiple times, until it was down to 190k and change.. I also had my wife run around the police stations, getting reports and files, so that they knock the 30k government insurance off the top of the bill also. The actual bill to pay then stood at 16X something.

When they were asked to visit the hospital, the day prior to my due release, I set up a meeting with the hospital accounting senior woman (great people to work with at RAM BTW) to also be there. She told the family that the hospital would put the bill on credit with them, and they could make stage payments over a couple of years, and they just needed to bring their tabien baan and the chanote of the land their house was on, which they said they had. This would allow them to set up a credit account.

We had the meeting, I told the girl, if she picked up that bill, the 160k left from the hospital, I would eat the rest.. My bike, my watch, my further operations, pain, injury, suffering, loss of work, etc etc etc.. Everything else I would take the hit, all she had to do was pay 160k over a couple of years, which even that was only about 2/3rds of the original hospital bill. Pretty fair I think ? and I did all the setting up, discussions, proposal, made a plan that was possible, all in a haze of pain and drugs. I felt if she at least took responsibility for her actions that far, I would feel she tried and karma would work it all out. C'est la vie..

Her and her mother agreed to do this.. In front of the hospital accounts woman, my lawyer, etc etc.. It was all agreed.. They would return tomorrow, with the paperwork, I would be discharged tomorrow, and they would settle 160k over term.. And I would eat the rest and it was over. Wais all round, smiles and agreement, assurances not to worry and 'they had this' etc etc..

The next day morning comes.. No show.. I call her.. Phone off.. My lawyer calls her.. Phones off.. My lawyer gets the police involved, who track the mothers phone from files.. Phones off.. I am waiting, in pain, in a hospital bed, not knowing if I can leave, go, stay whatever.. if they are coming after school, if shes in class, whats going on.. They just lied, in front of everyone, then ran and hid from the problem they caused and hoped it would all go away.

I ended up staying an additional day (obviously the above took all day to realize the deal they made the day before, they were not going to honour).. With much embarrassment with the hospital coming every hour asking if I am going ?? Which I couldnt answer.. Next morning I paid it cash and discharged myself.

Days went by, but the police ended up getting them, and forcing them to a mediation at the station.. I then gave them another chance. Pay me the 160k hospital bill, with no credit now, and I would still let it go.. This time I was a lot less forgiving and nice about it.. Sure 160k is a lot, but they can send her to payap university ?? They can afford get her a car to go there not a scooter ?? Anyway I gave them one more chance.. pay me 160k and its over, no court, no case, none of the other bills, settling for 20% of the actual damage. They refused, i think the mother offered me 10k baht.

So I told them, not paying the hospital bill would be the biggest mistake they made. They had the chance to settle for a fraction and I would figure the rest is just life, its not my first bike wreck, I choose to wear a platinum watch, etc etc.. They decided to fight me. She tried to avoid even the most basic responsibility for an accident she totally admits she black and white caused.

Fine, then I have to fight.. When I fight I win... All the chips !!

Well done fella, I am totally with you! All those sitting in an ivory tower with their holier than thou responses, obviously haven't been in such a position. the girl made multiple wrong choices and mistakes and you expect her to walk away unpunished just because she is young and poor? Seems to me the guy has been reasonable even before this latest instalment of the story, not getting her sent to jail!

Think back to the girl who caused 9 deaths on the highway, or the girl up north who mowed down those cyclists or even the guy that killed a young girl cyclist in Bangkok and did a runner. All condemned on here and rightly so, the person's individual circumstances should not have a bearing on it, young, old, rich or poor, when you make those types of mistakes due to bad driving, you should expect to be punished and if the BiB won't do it, then the choice is pretty simple if you ask me, lawyer up.

[robblok]

@livinginLOS

Your totally right you were being fair they screwed you. Then I would also go for the max. Plus the girl had no license and no insurance.. she took the risk you should not have to suffer for her mistakes.

[LivinLOS]

Thats kind of how it went.. I personally do believe in luck / karma and that what you put out comes back to you.

She caused a big event in my life, pain, damage I will have forever, and some monetary loss.. But it was an accident, shes young, she messed up.. I dont want her life ruined, I specifically made it clear I didnt want her to go to jail, or drop out of college, or otherwise screw her life up.

But she had to take responsibility for her actions.. Shes poor ?? Well its poor people who need to have insurance !! Rich people can pay their costs. You think if I injured a Thai anyone would be letting me off at 20% of the total costs ?? I presented multiple options for her to easily accept some of the responsibility, each time they fought, that window got smaller, the options got harder, the point of carrot and stick. If she had just done the first deal, she would have got off lightly and it would have been over in a couple of years.

Even now, shes paying on the drip.. I made it clear, she pays these monthly, she doesnt make me chase her, and I will discount it further.. Even to the point of 100's of 1000s... If she messes me around, if she makes me chase it or otherwise tries to fight again.. Then once again.. I dont fight for half the chips !! You make me fight, I fight to win everything.

[LivinLOS]

Just to finish off.. wildly off topic, and detailing my own issues when not really relevant but. Back to the OP.

Yes the police are sloppy, yes theres a system thats hard to navigate, and yes, for a 10 grand scratch or scraped knee, who gives a shit ?? Its just life..

But when push comes to shove, when its worth standing your ground, the cheap addition of a legal advisor, to handle the cops interaction, to advise you on making sure the initial reports say what they should say right at the start without holes, and you can get it done. If you dont get the result you feel is right, move up the chain with the confidence of someone who expects it. Dont waste time with the kind of half drunk roadside bribe taking kind of cop, have a lawyer and deal with the station boss, the senior ones.

Over and over bar stool farangs will repeat that "the farang is always in the wrong" "your fault for being there" etc etc.. Its just not true, its repeating false knowledge provided by people who lost in the system. It effects peoples choice to protect themselves and actually the system isnt as corrupt and bad as its claimed. Its a bit sloppy, it relies on mediation a lot, it does factor in that some people are 'poor' and need time, they try to resolve things outside of a courtroom first.. But it has been nothing less than fair with me. Judges, court officials, all spoke english, assured me that my nationality wasnt going to effect anything, were simply normal and professional about it. It was not significantly worse than going to court in the west.

[eisfeld]

LivinLOS: the recent posts from you shine a totally different light on the story and seems all fair game on your part. Sorry if I suggested you are heartless or some such but it really seemed like that from the earlier posts. Cheers.

[LivinLOS]

^^ Its ok.. I can see how the first little bit of info came over.

I also debated just letting it go, the sympathy that they are poor and it was an accident.. But once they lied to me, and ran away, acted like children about it.. Well I didnt see I had much choice. It was like if I let it slide I would be rewarding that very 'screw the farang' behavior, or 'farang is rich let him pay' which annoys me.

Overall I guess all parties just wished none of it happened.. But it did.. Such is accidents.

[1234asdf]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I can only speak basic Thai and it's my gf doing most of the talking (Thai). The bike has scratches and scrapes and scuffs, no cracked panels. The damage is across the exhaust protector, mirror, brake lever and all down the panels on one side. In my opinion the panels in particular need replacing, especially since it is a new bike.

We waited 1-2 days for a call back from the police. No call. So we called them again and speak to the same officer who came out to us after the accident, and he says that they didn't find the van, despite having the exact plate number. We ask to see the cameras, they umm and ahh and say you will have to come to the police station 'more than once on a few different days'... It didn't really make sense and I think what he was trying to imply was that you will need to pay or we aren't going to help.

I Googled a bit and found a municipal building where I think the cameras for the city are and we went there and they weren't really any help and simply referred us back to the police. I'm still not sure if the cameras are in there, they seemed a bit cagey about answering.

At this stage I went back to the renter, who seems really nice in fairness, with a view to asking their advice and trying to get the ball rolling. First thing they do is check out the damage, which as written above, to my mind is at least 2,500 baht and probably much more if they are buying new parts, really at this stage I am expecting 5000+ plus.

"500 baht". "You mean the mirror?" "No everything".

I can only assume they took pity on us. The bike doesn't need repair to drive it, I guess, but aesthetically it is clearly more of a mess than it was before and if they wanted to get it back to how it was before, it would cost considerably more than 500 baht.

At this stage there seems little point pursuing it further, ideally I'd want them to find the guy, but the cost of doing so is going to be more than what we will have to pay, with no guarantee of any good result at the end of it. I have little confidence in the police doing their job even if I pay them and maybe the camera isn't a good angle/broken.

I think we got lucky with the integrity of the bike renter and unlucky with the integrity of the police we were dealing with.

It's Friday again tomorrow, a week on, so I'm going to go back to the same place and sit there for an hour and see if he comes past again, with it being a van I figure he might ply the same routes. After that I'm going to give up. Sorry I had to cop out half way through for anybody who was interested in a different outcome. Maybe it would be a different story if we were both Thai.

[Lucky33]

1234asdf I think that you had the outcome that most of us expected, I"m glad that you had a reasonable renter. IMO expecting the Thai police to do anything about it was a lost cause from the start.

[recom273]

That's BS about not finding the van. They are just too lazy.

I guess speed is of the essence .. When I got shunted from behind by a taxi bike, I thought I would leave it until the wife had finished work, but when we sat down at the station they asked me why I hadn't called them at the time of the accident.

I just laughed in his face. There's always an excuse.

Glad you came out of it OK, plenty of crooks out there who would have taken your cash and not repaired anything.

Edited March 12, 2016 by recom273