SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[allanos]

The pound (GBP) has dropped nearly one-half of a percent against the Euro (EUR) in today's trade.

If, as some have averred, it is so heavily correlated with a vote to remain in the EU, why has it tanked today?

Is there fresh news that the "in" campaign is on the up-and-up?

I think not. It is not correlated at all with the in/out campaign. It is simply a function of market forces, as

it always has been. And as the good Sergeant remarked in one of his previous posts.

Sorry to say this to you remainers, but it's the truth!

The £ has slightly increased in value over these last couple of weeks. All to do with the latest trade figures and the lower unemployment numbers.

Indeed, that is correct. The point I have tried to make in my post is that the recent pound strength has nothing whatsoever to do with the (seemingly) ascendant polling numbers for the "IN" campaign. In fact, there is a slight consensus by financial analysts that pound strength is playing a bit of "catch up", because it is undervalued currently.

[Kwasaki]

The quid is the 4th most traded currency I think.

[SgtRock]

The European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker. Another freeloader, who went into Politics at the age of 20 and has never had a job. Oh yes people, yet another one. Has this to say.

European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker has warned the UK that "deserters won’t be welcomed back with open arms".

In hard-hitting comments, which have sparked accusations of intimidation among eurosceptics, he said the UK would "have to bear the consequences" if it voted to quit the 28-member bloc.

In the event of Britain breaking away, it "would be considered a third party and one we won’t suck up to", he added.

http://news.sky.com/story/1699424/eu-chief-juncker-warns-uk-over-deserters

Feeling the heat Juncker ? Are you now having nightmares about your gravy train, not just coming to end, but slamming into the abyss in a fatal crash.

I would have thought, that you of all people, would understand that Brits really do not take kindly to threats.

[Caps]

The European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker. Another freeloader, who went into Politics at the age of 20 and has never had a job. Oh yes people, yet another one. Has this to say.

European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker has warned the UK that "deserters won’t be welcomed back with open arms".

In hard-hitting comments, which have sparked accusations of intimidation among eurosceptics, he said the UK would "have to bear the consequences" if it voted to quit the 28-member bloc.

In the event of Britain breaking away, it "would be considered a third party and one we won’t suck up to", he added.

http://news.sky.com/story/1699424/eu-chief-juncker-warns-uk-over-deserters

Feeling the heat Juncker ? Are you now having nightmares about your gravy train, not just coming to end, but slamming into the abyss in a fatal crash.

I would have thought, that you of all people, would understand that Brits really do not take kindly to threats.

well done Juncker....what a chopper, its comments like that give me all more reason for us to be OUT

[cumgranosalum]

The European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker. Another freeloader, who went into Politics at the age of 20 and has never had a job. Oh yes people, yet another one. Has this to say.

European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker has warned the UK that "deserters won’t be welcomed back with open arms".

In hard-hitting comments, which have sparked accusations of intimidation among eurosceptics, he said the UK would "have to bear the consequences" if it voted to quit the 28-member bloc.

In the event of Britain breaking away, it "would be considered a third party and one we won’t suck up to", he added.

http://news.sky.com/story/1699424/eu-chief-juncker-warns-uk-over-deserters

Feeling the heat Juncker ? Are you now having nightmares about your gravy train, not just coming to end, but slamming into the abyss in a fatal crash.

I would have thought, that you of all people, would understand that Brits really do not take kindly to threats.

o what do you think of the message; is it true or not?

[cumgranosalum]

The European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker. Another freeloader, who went into Politics at the age of 20 and has never had a job. Oh yes people, yet another one. Has this to say.

European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker has warned the UK that "deserters won’t be welcomed back with open arms".

In hard-hitting comments, which have sparked accusations of intimidation among eurosceptics, he said the UK would "have to bear the consequences" if it voted to quit the 28-member bloc.

In the event of Britain breaking away, it "would be considered a third party and one we won’t suck up to", he added.

http://news.sky.com/story/1699424/eu-chief-juncker-warns-uk-over-deserters

Feeling the heat Juncker ? Are you now having nightmares about your gravy train, not just coming to end, but slamming into the abyss in a fatal crash.

I would have thought, that you of all people, would understand that Brits really do not take kindly to threats.

well done Juncker....what a chopper, its comments like that give me all more reason for us to be OUT

How come?

[sandyf]

Freedom of movement to live and work is a major boon! Look at all the hassles here with visas and Workpermits.

I was able to move my family to live and work in Denmark and subsequently Germany with no hassle whatever. None.

I did learn both languages. Nor absolutely necessary but a courtesy nonetheless.

I can only think of two advantages for remaining in this corrupt so called union.

1/ no passport required for traveling around the EU.

2/ easier to move around the Rest of the EU in order to gain employment,due to the open border policy, however this is countered by the inflow of many undesirables into the UK from the EU. Criminals and those with no special skills,who rely on undercutting the wages of UK workers ,or on financial support from the UK tax payers.

Now I would like Grouse,Chang Mie,or Sandy to help me understand why the Britex campaign has got everything wrong. To this end I would respectfully ask you to look at the Britex movie as in Sgt Rocks post 1038. You presumably disagree and considered it nothing but unsupported propaganda, That's fair enough, so please point out to us uneducated underlings where it is wrong and why. Being open minded I will start off by helping you. One of the reasons Switzerland is so prosperous is due to them not being involved in the Two world wars and spending so little on it's military. The exemption being the Pope's Swiss guard.

At no time have I ever said that the Brexit camp has got everything wrong, there are certainly some valid arguments for leaving but some arguments have been grossly distorted and others exaggerated by omission.

The question can very easily be put the other way, why has the remain camp got everything wrong. and you can have exactly the same answer.

What many seem to overlook is that we are in the EU and it is up the Brexit camp to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that life would be better on the other side, something that has failed so far. The situation is a bit like the concept of being innocent until proven guilty. It will be up to each individual, the jury, to decide if the case has been proven. The real concern here is that the jury retires without hearing all the evidence.

The hidden danger in all this is the damage to the UK political structure, a leave vote is going to leave the government in a mess. People like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump may well be popular with the people but they are not international statesmen. It is a big world out there and if want your voice to be heard then you must have the presence to make it heard.

Instead of supplying a wishy-washy reply,just answer the question I have put to you. Come on I'm prepared to be persuaded that you are correct, just persuade me.

As I said, leave statements tend to be closer to fiction than fact.

UK: (corrects link)Peter Kellner, former president of pollsters YouGov, writes...

UK: (corrects link)Peter Kellner, former president of pollsters YouGov, writesonline Friday that he predicts a double digit 'win' for the Remain camp in theUK's EU membership vote. Kellner, in an op-ed piece for websitewww.politicscounter.com, says the 'Leave' campaign needs to buck the trend inprevious UK referendums of a late swing to the status quo.

Source: Market News International (MNI) – A Deutsche Börse company

20. May 2016 17:28:23

[sandyf]

Some more people sticking their noses in where its not wanted.

Film stars, singers, writers and Boris Johnson’s favourite designer are among nearly 300 leading figures from the arts world to have signed a letter urging Britain to remain in the EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-keira-knightley-benedict-cumberbatch-famous-figures-brexit-vote-remain-letter-eu-a7038916.html

Do these overpaid luvvies not know that all the grants they receive from the EU are paid for by the British Taxpayers. I just wonder if they have any immigrants living in there neighborhoods, and are they worried they might loose their lively hoods to these same people. Sounds to me as "I'm all right Jack"

I take it that you would say exactly the same thing about Manchester

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/things-eu-done-for-manchester-11020085

or any other city in the UK.

It quite likely some of these projects would never have been funded if it had been left up to the UK government, particularly in the social sector.

This is the dark side of the leave campaign, more concerned about the money being spent in their interest rather than the public as a whole. This has certainly been highlighted in the comments regarding the actors and musicians.

[SgtRock]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

[SgtRock]

Heres one for Grouse......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/scottish-taxpayers-facing-125-million-fines-after-snp-farm-payme/?ref=yfp

I would hate to think what might happen if the UK public were made aware of the cumulative amount of taxpayer money that is wasted every year.

The most common reason that I heard for this is because '' We have to abide by EU Regulations '' which I think is nothing more than a feeble excuse.

The solution is simple.

Boot the EU into touch. Start holding UK Politicians accountable for every penny spent and make it clear, if they ( **** ) up they will be held responsible.

Edited to add.

The SNP, those great liberal democrats are just like every other Politician and Party. 3 have just had their Commons credit cards suspended and a further 2 are currently being investigated for funding their love triangle with a political hack with taxpayers money.

[Grouse]

EU is a community that stretches from the Artic circle to Africa, from Asia to the Atlantic.

You can live anywhere ,work anywhere, travel anywhere without any hassle.......

How could anyone would want to throw all that away and believes theyd be better off bounded between Berwick and Bournemouth is just beyond belief.

That doesn't wash either.

We (the UK) traded with the WHOLE of the rest of the world before joining the EEC and would continue to do so after leaving the EU.

Do you really think trade would stop ?

Geographically, Land's End to John O'Groats is fine.

The UK trades with 53 countries on the back of an EU agreement, that is 53 trade deals that would have to be renegotiated. The leave campaign are very reluctant to say how this will be achieved and how long it will take. You must bear in mind that no new deal could be started where product is subject to conformity until some new proof of conformity has been established. I have yet to see anything from the leave campaign over the issue of CE marking.

Of course you are quite right that the UK would be free to trade, any product available to trade, as a WTO member subject to the WTO tariff structure.

You cannot use what happened in the past as a reference as the rules of the game have changed.

Admire your optimism on the geography, should the UK leave the EU there is every chance that Scotland will leave the UK.

Trade is a two way street the EU sells far more goods to Britain than Britain does to them and has to pay huge costs to do so.
So why is it that Communist China for example is able to trade successfully with the EU for a fraction of the costs that Britain has to for the "privilege" of trading with the EU?
Anyway your argument will be purely academic after Brexit as without British money the whole corrupt failed political super state will fall like a pack of cards. So enabling trade with a tariff free Europe.

If you pay slave labour wages import duties into EU would have to be massive to make any difference. We have "working wage"; duties will be a significant additional burden for exporters[/quote

Strange how it isn't a "significant extra burden" for Switzerland or Norway who both trade with the EU!

We were not discussing Switzerland and Norway, the issue was China. I can't be bothered to revisit the trade arrangements of N and the Swiss as this has been explained at length. The issue is whether WTO tariffs would be a burden on exporters.

[Grouse]

I have never supported the SNP, I remember Alex Salmond from his younger days. SNP support and referendums are two separate issues.
The Scots may have been reluctant to go it alone before but as Grouse says, they despise Westminster so they will not want to go it alone with Westminster at the helm.

Do I take it from your forum name that you were a Sgt in the Rockapes?


A lot of the SNP support comes from disillusioned Labour voters, a kind of protest vote if you like.
That does not mean that the majority of the Scottish people want to leave the UK.
The majority already made their wishes clear at the independence referendum. Why would they want to break from Westminster to re join an undemocratic single state and have even less say and control in their affairs?

Because a majority are social democrats like Northern Europeans and not Neo cons like the Americans and nastier Tory Elements. I do believe that in the case of Brexit, another referendum would result in Scorland leaving the UK

[Grouse]

That doesn't wash either.

We (the UK) traded with the WHOLE of the rest of the world before joining the EEC and would continue to do so after leaving the EU.

Do you really think trade would stop ?

Geographically, Land's End to John O'Groats is fine.

totally incorrect. Until the EU the UK relied on an Empire/commonwealth that it dominated and exploited for raw materials trade etc.......it became very obvious to all parties after WW2 that this situation was no longer viable and another "community was needed. We didn't join the EU for fun, it was a necessity.

it also looks like you haven't read my post properly as I'm not talking about trade, i'm talking about freedom to move, live work where I like without jumping through countless bureaucratic hoops. I'm talking about being a EUROPEAN and not a "Little Englander" with a parochial xenophobic outlook that you and other Brexiteers see to purvey

as for trade; well, you can't "trade" unless you have something and someone to trade with.......

do you really thing that trade will continue - leaving the EU takes 2 years of official negotiation...after that the UK has to renegotiate virtually ALL of it's trade deals and many treaties - but NOT from a position of power a position of "Little England"

You schoolboy grasp of history is leading you up the garden path.

Freedom of movement to live and work is a major boon! Look at all the hassles here with visas and Workpermits.

I was able to move my family to live and work in Denmark and subsequently Germany with no hassle whatever. None.

I did learn both languages. Nor absolutely necessary but a courtesy nonetheless.

I can only think of two advantages for remaining in this corrupt so called union.

1/ no passport required for traveling around the EU.

2/ easier to move around the Rest of the EU in order to gain employment,due to the open border policy, however this is countered by the inflow of many undesirables into the UK from the EU. Criminals and those with no special skills,who rely on undercutting the wages of UK workers ,or on financial support from the UK tax payers.

Now I would like Grouse,Chang Mie,or Sandy to help me understand why the Britex campaign has got everything wrong. To this end I would respectfully ask you to look at the Britex movie as in Sgt Rocks post 1038. You presumably disagree and considered it nothing but unsupported propaganda, That's fair enough, so please point out to us uneducated underlings where it is wrong and why. Being open minded I will start off by helping you. One of the reasons Switzerland is so prosperous is due to them not being involved in the Two world wars and spending so little on it's military. The exemption being the Pope's Swiss guard.

At no time have I ever said that the Brexit camp has got everything wrong, there are certainly some valid arguments for leaving but some arguments have been grossly distorted and others exaggerated by omission.
The question can very easily be put the other way, why has the remain camp got everything wrong. and you can have exactly the same answer.

What many seem to overlook is that we are in the EU and it is up the Brexit camp to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that life would be better on the other side, something that has failed so far. The situation is a bit like the concept of being innocent until proven guilty. It will be up to each individual, the jury, to decide if the case has been proven. The real concern here is that the jury retires without hearing all the evidence.

The hidden danger in all this is the damage to the UK political structure, a leave vote is going to leave the government in a mess. People like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump may well be popular with the people but they are not international statesmen. It is a big world out there and if want your voice to be heard then you must have the presence to make it heard.

Instead of supplying a wishy-washy reply,just answer the question I have put to you. Come on I'm prepared to be persuaded that you are correct, just persuade me.

The level of debate on here has sunk so low that it is barely worth responding. The points in favour of remain have been extensively aired

Nobody is saying Brexit arguments (where they are real issues) are all wrong

My opinion is that ON BALANCE remain is the wiser choice

The economic and security arguments are obvious and I will not revisit those

The issue of the democratic deficit is real. However, I am optimistic that change can be achieved.

Migration is another real issue. I am not convinced that we do all we can to even monitor our borders properly.

The issue of expansion of EU is a non issue. Turkey will never be in a position to join let alone secure 28 votes in our lifetimes

BTW, anybody read Boris's biography of Churchill? Excellent

In it he clearly states that the EU is a bulwark against Russian aggression and has delivered peace since the war.

Poor Boris. He would sell his grandmother to lead the Conservatives! I reckon it's his Turkish genes!

[Mosha]

Some more people sticking their noses in where its not wanted.

Film stars, singers, writers and Boris Johnson’s favourite designer are among nearly 300 leading figures from the arts world to have signed a letter urging Britain to remain in the EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-keira-knightley-benedict-cumberbatch-famous-figures-brexit-vote-remain-letter-eu-a7038916.html

As said on Dateline London last weekend. This is a British issue, and foreigners should stay out of it.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

The pound (GBP) has dropped nearly one-half of a percent against the Euro (EUR) in today's trade.

If, as some have averred, it is so heavily correlated with a vote to remain in the EU, why has it tanked today?

Is there fresh news that the "in" campaign is on the up-and-up?

I think not. It is not correlated at all with the in/out campaign. It is simply a function of market forces, as

it always has been. And as the good Sergeant remarked in one of his previous posts.

Sorry to say this to you remainers, but it's the truth!

Profit taking? We're talking trends not instantaneous numbers

[Grouse]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

What is the point of reading misguided nonsense from a handful of discredited "economists" when the vast majority of economists hold the opposing view. Minford is dangerously wrong as was amply demonstrated by Thatcher

[stag4]

EU is a community that stretches from the Artic circle to Africa, from Asia to the Atlantic.

You can live anywhere ,work anywhere, travel anywhere without any hassle.......

How could anyone would want to throw all that away and believes theyd be better off bounded between Berwick and Bournemouth is just beyond belief.

That doesn't wash either.

We (the UK) traded with the WHOLE of the rest of the world before joining the EEC and would continue to do so after leaving the EU.

Do you really think trade would stop ?

Geographically, Land's End to John O'Groats is fine.

The UK trades with 53 countries on the back of an EU agreement, that is 53 trade deals that would have to be renegotiated. The leave campaign are very reluctant to say how this will be achieved and how long it will take. You must bear in mind that no new deal could be started where product is subject to conformity until some new proof of conformity has been established. I have yet to see anything from the leave campaign over the issue of CE marking.

Of course you are quite right that the UK would be free to trade, any product available to trade, as a WTO member subject to the WTO tariff structure.

You cannot use what happened in the past as a reference as the rules of the game have changed.

Admire your optimism on the geography, should the UK leave the EU there is every chance that Scotland will leave the UK.

Trade is a two way street the EU sells far more goods to Britain than Britain does to them and has to pay huge costs to do so.

So why is it that Communist China for example is able to trade successfully with the EU for a fraction of the costs that Britain has to for the "privilege" of trading with the EU?

Anyway your argument will be purely academic after Brexit as without British money the whole corrupt failed political super state will fall like a pack of cards. So enabling trade with a tariff free Europe.

If you pay slave labour wages import duties into EU would have to be massive to make any difference. We have "working wage"; duties will be a significant additional burden for exporters[/quote

Strange how it isn't a "significant extra burden" for Switzerland or Norway who both trade with the EU!

We were not discussing Switzerland and Norway, the issue was China. I can't be bothered to revisit the trade arrangements of N and the Swiss as this has been explained at length. The issue is whether WTO tariffs would be a burden on exporters.

Oh!

And here's me thinking that we were discussing Britains ability to "Trade with the Whole of the rest of the world" after Brexit.

Your arrogance knows no bounds!

[Orac]

Edit - going to try again as ballsed up the quoting

Edited May 21, 2016 by Orac

[Orac]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

What is the point of reading misguided nonsense from a handful of discredited "economists" when the vast majority of economists hold the opposing view. Minford is dangerously wrong as was amply demonstrated by Thatcher

To address the first part of the post, it is a cohesive economic argument for Brexit but, the same as the movie, it seems to be espousing very much that thatcherite views that I think would be difficult to carry out as they did eventually run out of steam previously - the general public do not have the patience for them since it involves a significant period of reform where labour markets and incomes suffer.

Another take away from it is the number of times it mentions a lower exchange rate as being one of the outcomes in making the UK economy competitive which, as an retiree living in Thailand, does not sound good to me.

"The higher output drives down the exchange rate as new markets are sought by exporters."

[Grouse]

Heres one for Grouse......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/scottish-taxpayers-facing-125-million-fines-after-snp-farm-payme/?ref=yfp

Yes, outrageous incompetence! Similar situation with delayed payments to Farmers in England and Wales

But what is your point? Anti SNP? So what, so am I. But off topic

Anti EU? Why?

[Grouse]

Heres one for Grouse......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/scottish-taxpayers-facing-125-million-fines-after-snp-farm-payme/?ref=yfp

I would hate to think what might happen if the UK public were made aware of the cumulative amount of taxpayer money that is wasted every year.

The most common reason that I heard for this is because '' We have to abide by EU Regulations '' which I think is nothing more than a feeble excuse.

The solution is simple.

Boot the EU into touch. Start holding UK Politicians accountable for every penny spent and make it clear, if they ( **** ) up they will be held responsible.

Edited to add.

The SNP, those great liberal democrats are just like every other Politician and Party. 3 have just had their Commons credit cards suspended and a further 2 are currently being investigated for funding their love triangle with a political hack with taxpayers money.

What part of the farmers' payments debacle are you blaming on the EU?

What part of the Westminster MPs credit card issue are you blaming on the EU?

Which part of the love triangle are you blaming on the EU?

Honestly, the level of "debate" on here is now so low that it is becoming not worth contributing.

Are any moderators looking at this off topic tabloid nonsense?

Edited May 21, 2016 by Grouse

[Caps]

The European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker. Another freeloader, who went into Politics at the age of 20 and has never had a job. Oh yes people, yet another one. Has this to say.

European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker has warned the UK that "deserters won’t be welcomed back with open arms".

In hard-hitting comments, which have sparked accusations of intimidation among eurosceptics, he said the UK would "have to bear the consequences" if it voted to quit the 28-member bloc.

In the event of Britain breaking away, it "would be considered a third party and one we won’t suck up to", he added.

http://news.sky.com/story/1699424/eu-chief-juncker-warns-uk-over-deserters

Feeling the heat Juncker ? Are you now having nightmares about your gravy train, not just coming to end, but slamming into the abyss in a fatal crash.

I would have thought, that you of all people, would understand that Brits really do not take kindly to threats.

well done Juncker....what a chopper, its comments like that give me all more reason for us to be OUT

How come?

Because I don't like being dictated to or threatened

[SgtRock]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

What is the point of reading misguided nonsense from a handful of discredited "economists" when the vast majority of economists hold the opposing view. Minford is dangerously wrong as was amply demonstrated by Thatcher

To address the first part of the post, it is a cohesive economic argument for Brexit but, the same as the movie, it seems to be espousing very much that thatcherite views that I think would be difficult to carry out as they did eventually run out of steam previously - the general public do not have the patience for them since it involves a significant period of reform where labour markets and incomes suffer.

Another take away from it is the number of times it mentions a lower exchange rate as being one of the outcomes in making the UK economy competitive which, as an retiree living in Thailand, does not sound good to me.

"The higher output drives down the exchange rate as new markets are sought by exporters."

It is a cohesive argument and it will suit some better than others. The relatively small numbers of retirees that may suffer due to a devaluation in the pound will be a small price to pay for having a strong economy trading worldwide. Not to mention being free of the cumbersome EU.

The post directly above yours. Is not a coherent argument and highlights very clearly the mentality of the unqualified attack poodles. Just as I said would happen in my opening paragraph.

[Orac]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

What is the point of reading misguided nonsense from a handful of discredited "economists" when the vast majority of economists hold the opposing view. Minford is dangerously wrong as was amply demonstrated by Thatcher

To address the first part of the post, it is a cohesive economic argument for Brexit but, the same as the movie, it seems to be espousing very much that thatcherite views that I think would be difficult to carry out as they did eventually run out of steam previously - the general public do not have the patience for them since it involves a significant period of reform where labour markets and incomes suffer.

Another take away from it is the number of times it mentions a lower exchange rate as being one of the outcomes in making the UK economy competitive which, as an retiree living in Thailand, does not sound good to me.

"The higher output drives down the exchange rate as new markets are sought by exporters."

It is a cohesive argument and it will suit some better than others. The relatively small numbers of retirees that may suffer due to a devaluation in the pound will be a small price to pay for having a strong economy trading worldwide. Not to mention being free of the cumbersome EU.

The post directly above yours. Is not a coherent argument and highlights very clearly the mentality of the unqualified attack poodles. Just as I said would happen in my opening paragraph.

I do see your point but from a personal point of view regarding the financial wellbeing of me and my family the value of the pound is crucial.

Though there may be a case for "taking one for the team" so to speak, I do not think it has been made and I do not think they would be able to carry out their economic plan as it would be unpalatable to the general population once they realised what they were signed up to. Free market economics look nice on paper but when people realise what policies like freeing up the labour market and open competition actually mean in practice and how it affects things like their incomes, job security and social institutions like the NHS then i think they would soon regret voting away those protections that, being under the umbrella of the EU, they currently get.

[SgtRock]

I do see your point but from a personal point of view regarding the financial wellbeing of me and my family the value of the pound is crucial.

Though there may be a case for "taking one for the team" so to speak, I do not think it has been made and I do not think they would be able to carry out their economic plan as it would be unpalatable to the general population once they realised what they were signed up to. Free market economics look nice on paper but when people realise what policies like freeing up the labour market and open competition actually mean in practice and how it affects things like their incomes, job security and social institutions like the NHS then i think they would soon regret voting away those protections that, being under the umbrella of the EU, they currently get.

Orac.

I do see and I also understand your point. From your viewpoint I would suggest that you do a bit of research on '' Benefits '' in the EU context and then research when '' Benefits '' cease to be paid outside the EU.

You might just want to rethink your financial wellbeing.

No scaremongering intended.

[Jip99]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

Interestingly, I discovered on a recent UK visit that demand for housing remains high and there is a shortage of supply.

I doubt my part of East Anglia was unique but in a town with a population of 30,000 there were only 2 bungalows for sale under GBP 250k. My ex-MIL visited a property the day after it appeared on Rightmove and was told an offer had already been received at the asking price. She (as a cash buyer) matched it but was later gazumped by GBP 5k.

That demand will not go away whether we exit or not.

[Jip99]

EU is a community that stretches from the Artic circle to Africa, from Asia to the Atlantic.

You can live anywhere ,work anywhere, travel anywhere without any hassle.......

How could anyone would want to throw all that away and believes they’d be better off bounded between Berwick and Bournemouth is just beyond belief.

That doesn't wash either.

We (the UK) traded with the WHOLE of the rest of the world before joining the EEC and would continue to do so after leaving the EU.

Do you really think trade would stop ?

Geographically, Land's End to John O'Groats is fine.

The UK trades with 53 countries on the back of an EU agreement, that is 53 trade deals that would have to be renegotiated. The leave campaign are very reluctant to say how this will be achieved and how long it will take. You must bear in mind that no new deal could be started where product is subject to conformity until some new proof of conformity has been established. I have yet to see anything from the leave campaign over the issue of CE marking.

Of course you are quite right that the UK would be free to trade, any product available to trade, as a WTO member subject to the WTO tariff structure.

You cannot use what happened in the past as a reference as the rules of the game have changed.

Admire your optimism on the geography, should the UK leave the EU there is every chance that Scotland will leave the UK.

True enough Sandy, but I can only speak as we stand now without speculation.

There was every chance last time but they bottled it.

[Grouse]

Worth a read. It has many interesting points. Before the attack dogs go on the offensive with wild cries of Pro - Brexit, yes, they are pro Brexit. The contributors are also professors, what qualifications do the attack dogs have.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdf

Hot on the heels of Osborne's ( He is the guy with NO economic qualifications ) statement that every household in the UK would be worse of to the tune of £ 4300 a year in the event of a Brexit. Here is his latest cracker.

House prices face 18% hit if Britain quits EU, says George Osborne

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit

I have a couple of trains of thought on this.

1. House prices may well take a hit, but that is open to debate. But to put a figure on it is sheer lunacy or smacks of desperation.

2. The UK housing market is way over inflated anyway so a crash will come regardless of whether the UK stays or goes. In any case, a housing crash will help all those people, many many millions, who cannot get near the housing market.

What is the point of reading misguided nonsense from a handful of discredited "economists" when the vast majority of economists hold the opposing view. Minford is dangerously wrong as was amply demonstrated by Thatcher

To address the first part of the post, it is a cohesive economic argument for Brexit but, the same as the movie, it seems to be espousing very much that thatcherite views that I think would be difficult to carry out as they did eventually run out of steam previously - the general public do not have the patience for them since it involves a significant period of reform where labour markets and incomes suffer.

Another take away from it is the number of times it mentions a lower exchange rate as being one of the outcomes in making the UK economy competitive which, as an retiree living in Thailand, does not sound good to me.

"The higher output drives down the exchange rate as new markets are sought by exporters."

It is a cohesive argument and it will suit some better than others. The relatively small numbers of retirees that may suffer due to a devaluation in the pound will be a small price to pay for having a strong economy trading worldwide. Not to mention being free of the cumbersome EU.

The post directly above yours. Is not a coherent argument and highlights very clearly the mentality of the unqualified attack poodles. Just as I said would happen in my opening paragraph.

Don't try and insult me, knucklehead. You're not intelligent enough.

[Grouse]

Heres one for Grouse......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/scottish-taxpayers-facing-125-million-fines-after-snp-farm-payme/?ref=yfp

Yes, outrageous incompetence! Similar situation with delayed payments to Farmers in England and Wales

But what is your point? Anti SNP? So what, so am I. But off topic

Anti EU? Why?

My point is the UK is handing over zillions of quid for f___ all to foreigners...

I thought this was about payments to Scottish farmers? Did I misread the article?

[Jip99]

EU is a community that stretches from the Artic circle to Africa, from Asia to the Atlantic.

You can live anywhere ,work anywhere, travel anywhere without any hassle.......

How could anyone would want to throw all that away and believes they’d be better off bounded between Berwick and Bournemouth is just beyond belief.

That doesn't wash either.

We (the UK) traded with the WHOLE of the rest of the world before joining the EEC and would continue to do so after leaving the EU.

Do you really think trade would stop ?

Geographically, Land's End to John O'Groats is fine.

"

Geographically, Land's End to John O'Groats is fine." - QED! - It's a UNION!

Really? ...and you even think THAT will last? I think you are deluding yourself (BTW - you realise there is already a Scottish assembly?

Nothing wrong with a Union - the original EEC was fine by me, the current EU is not.

If the north ends at Berwick so be it.