In fact I’m so negative about the future performance of all these shopping centres ( because the worldwide credit consumption binge has well and truly run its course) that if there was a way to financially “ short “ them I would go in boots and all.

Does SET have options? That would allow you to short.

In fact I’m so negative about the future performance of all these shopping centres ( because the worldwide credit consumption binge has well and truly run its course) that if there was a way to financially “ short “ them I would go in boots and all.

Does SET have options? That would allow you to short.

yes they have options and warrants. But the options are only for the index-not individual companies

Got a new small mall being built on the darkside as well at the moment

http://newpattaya.com/news/the-chilled-plaza-pattaya/

A troll post has been removed

i am sure the ederly resident will be happy with this new mall.

Instead of getting harrased by the ladyboy on the beach road,

foreigners will spend their afternoon walking from one shopping mall to another one.

By example, from midday to 2 pm you can spend your time at the terminal 21 and enjoy the free air-con

then you walk 100 meters you are at Central, there you stay until 4 pm walking around every lavatory looking for action

At 4 pm, you grab a taximotosai and 5 minutes later you are at the harbor. You spend a couple of hours at the deserted food area.

Then 6 pm, all the hooker are finally wake up, you can walk back to soi 6.

The next day, to make it different, you do the following circuit : first the avenue, then royal garden and you finish with the oultet shop on sukhumvit road

i am sure the ederly resident will be happy with this new mall.

Instead of getting harrased by the ladyboy on the beach road,

foreigners will spend their afternoon walking from one shopping mall to another one.

By example, from midday to 2 pm you can spend your time at the terminal 21 and enjoy the free air-con

then you walk 100 meters you are at Central, there you stay until 4 pm walking around every lavatory looking for action

At 4 pm, you grab a taximotosai and 5 minutes later you are at the harbor. You spend a couple of hours at the deserted food area.

Then 6 pm, all the hooker are finally wake up, you can walk back to soi 6.

The next day, to make it different, you do the following circuit : first the avenue, then royal garden and you finish with the oultet shop on sukhumvit road

Are you stalking me?

Terminal 21 may be just the thing to raise Pattays image , could also be a monumental flop.

There is also the recently opened Harbor Mall so I am thinking Pattaya is saturated as far as Malls are concerned.

It will become competition between them.

There is also the matter of infrastructure... the roads in Pattaya are already choked up... I do not see there being enough customers to warrant all this shopping. Much is being made of the increasing Chinese Market but they are not big spenders, but looky-loos who actually deter other customers,

So to add to the Mall saturation in Pattaya :In addition to Terminal 21 , Harbor Mall , there is

" The Bay : on Beach rd @ Soi 6 & Soi 5 ( where there has not been any new work for about 2 weeks ?)

And from the link; 'There are those that believe it will be good for Pattaya

and others think it will result in many businesses being forced to close. '

Just because Pattaya is becoming Bangkok by the Bay, it does not necessarily follow that all this excessive over development is going to have enough customer support.

If these developers are banking on the masses of Chinese and masses of Thais that are jamming the roads in Pattaya every day to make it - they are dreaming.

I had had some doubts before, but now, on the basis of your forecasting track record, we can all rest assured that Terminal 21 will indeed be a success. Perfect time to invest in Siam Retail Development Co.--if only it were public! Darn! Maybe nearby property will be a good play.

You could invest in the Waterfront development.

Pattaya is somewhat unique in that it's a relatively small beach resort town with a seemingly endless appetite for retail.

Your definition of relatively small is a lot different than mine. Not going to get into population argument because it doesn't appear that are are good numbers for that. What I can say is that from the 34th floor of the Hilton, Pattaya looks massive to me. It just keeps going and going. Just look at sukhumvit road. Its 8 lanes in most places.

T21 offers a unique shopping experience with its boutique stores. Most items are what you can find at JJ market, cheap and fasionable - well JJ Market was where young folks back in the day would go for cheap but fashionable clothing stuff. This appeals mostly to Asians, not so much to Westerners as they way they dress is different.

T21 offers a unique shopping experience with its boutique stores. Most items are what you can find at JJ market, cheap and fasionable - well JJ Market was where young folks back in the day would go for cheap but fashionable clothing stuff. This appeals mostly to Asians, not so much to Westerners as they way they dress is different.

And usually a different size.

OB

The Avenue shop cinema complex is virtually empty most days, seems strange to build a new shopping centre when the existing ones are very under used.

The Avenue isn't "ones."

You're in the typical "no need" phase.

There has been threads about Central Festival being empty and under used also.

Which ones?

I had had some doubts before, but now, on the basis of your forecasting track record, we can all rest assured that Terminal 21 will indeed be a success. Perfect time to invest in Siam Retail Development Co.--if only it were public! Darn! Maybe nearby property will be a good play.

You could invest in the Waterfront development.

That's not nearby. Fortunately the most valuable resource the forum offers is its information. These threads will help you find an optometrist.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/825819-bought-some-prescription-glasses-for-300-baht/?hl=optometrist

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/874860-pattaya-optometrist/?hl=optometrist

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/876873-good-optician/?p=10166014&hl=optometrist

Northpoint, however, might be a good play. Seaview, new eyeglasses for enjoying it . . . you game?

The Avenue shop cinema complex is virtually empty most days, seems strange to build a new shopping centre when the existing ones are very under used.

The Avenue has been a failure since the day it opened for reasons peculiar to it...namely someone's daft idea to build an outdoor shopping complex in a hot, humid (or rainy) tropical country like Thailand ?

Pattaya is somewhat unique in that it's a relatively small beach resort town with a seemingly endless appetite for retail.

Your definition of relatively small is a lot different than mine. Not going to get into population argument because it doesn't appear that are are good numbers for that. What I can say is that from the 34th floor of the Hilton, Pattaya looks massive to me. It just keeps going and going. Just look at sukhumvit road. Its 8 lanes in most places.

From that height, it's probably Bangkok that you're seeing...Pattaya proper is actually quite small. ☺

I had had some doubts before, but now, on the basis of your forecasting track record, we can all rest assured that Terminal 21 will indeed be a success. Perfect time to invest in Siam Retail Development Co.--if only it were public! Darn! Maybe nearby property will be a good play.

isn't that a bit rich though coming from someone who was previously a keen supporter of the Walen School of Investment planned programme of seminars? (sorry couldn't resist:P )

Merely astute. After morrobay's certain prediction (an echo, actually) that "Central World" would fail, it enjoyed great success and CPN's share price rose 400% over the next six years. And it was morrobay who started the greatest Pattaya doom thread in TVF history, the epic 49-page Widening Of Beach Rd Started At North End. That's how Holiday Inn knew to open its Executive Tower three months later. Shortly thereafter CPN's share price rose 39% in one month to an all-time high. So that was a wonderful thing except in the course of a year some of our members fell victim to the dreaded incurable Tic-Related Promenade OCD (TRPOCD).

Doom on our forum is a fine inverse indicator. So, to stay with mall development, when The Avenue first opened we of course read posts about its negative points, mainly about having to cross 2nd Rd., but no prophecies then of overwhelming, utterly inescapable doom--the absence thereof meaning that it would fail.

Now I'd be remiss if I didn't pop the balloon claiming that I was ever a keen supporter of Walen. I did enjoy shredding your posts there--in all benevolence, so that our members mightn't be misled or misinformed--but as I said at the time as a rare objective observer,

Maybe the seminar might be helpful to some newbie as a starting point. As I noted, we do have a lot of old geezers around hoarding too much money and having nothing much to do other than sit at their keyboards and type in complaints about the promenade, the condo glut, Starbucks, etc. And looking for cheap buffets. . . .

Which is hardly "keen support." Rest assured I'd give you no less than the same objectivity should you wish to start an Asiantravel School Of Therapeutic Hand Wringing. Nor did I make any predictions about the success or lack thereof. Why should I? Not enough info. But you did: I predict your smug attitude will be your downfall. So how long's that gonna be?

Looks like what we have here is a secondary confirmation signal in favor of Terminal 21. So far, so good.

Can never have too many malls. The issue isn't the 'mall', but what's inside it. So long as there are other chain restaurants/shops, or types of shops that are under-represented in Pattaya there is room for growth.

Last I checked, Pattaya's shopping is *good* but not as good as Bangkok. So, room to grow (especially as this is a tourist destination therefore can have a nice variety to suit tourist needs).

Although to be honest, I would have hoped for a 'Mega' mall on the Dark Side and one on Jomtien to cater to those individuals

Pattaya is somewhat unique in that it's a relatively small beach resort town with a seemingly endless appetite for retail.

Your definition of relatively small is a lot different than mine. Not going to get into population argument because it doesn't appear that are are good numbers for that. What I can say is that from the 34th floor of the Hilton, Pattaya looks massive to me. It just keeps going and going. Just look at sukhumvit road. Its 8 lanes in most places.

From that height, it's probably Bangkok that you're seeing...Pattaya proper is actually quite small. ☺

Suggesting that I am looking at Bangkok just shows that that you either don't have a clue or you just choose to ignore reality.

The Avenue shop cinema complex is virtually empty most days, seems strange to build a new shopping centre when the existing ones are very under used.

The Avenue has been a failure since the day it opened for reasons peculiar to it...namely someone's daft idea to build an outdoor shopping complex in a hot, humid (or rainy) tropical country like Thailand ?

Yet the cinema there is like an icebox.

I had had some doubts before, but now, on the basis of your forecasting track record, we can all rest assured that Terminal 21 will indeed be a success. Perfect time to invest in Siam Retail Development Co.--if only it were public! Darn! Maybe nearby property will be a good play.

You could invest in the Waterfront development.

That's not nearby. Fortunately the most valuable resource the forum offers is its information. These threads will help you find an optometrist.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/825819-bought-some-prescription-glasses-for-300-baht/?hl=optometrist

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/874860-pattaya-optometrist/?hl=optometrist

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/876873-good-optician/?p=10166014&hl=optometrist

Northpoint, however, might be a good play. Seaview, new eyeglasses for enjoying it . . . you game?

It can be seen from there, or perhaps it is you that needs resources listed.

Re post #77: Widening of Beach Rd was associated with accommodating the mass Chinese tour bus tourism.

And that project ripped out the trees as well as a maintainable beach walk with benches.

(some of the new benches are breaking and a few have had all the stainless 5/16" base bolts removed)

The beachwalk area in front of Holiday Inn is an ongoing seasonal disaster. If there is any correlation with Holiday Inn in would be less guests who do not want to put up with the Beach rd jam, the beach walk disaster and decaying sandbag beach.

The Inspired Editor wrote in the OP: "To put it in perspective, it won’t be a great deal different to Central Festival." As another poster said, T21 is nothing like Central.

I don't actually think it would be a great attraction although I like the one in bkk, it is pretty vibrant and very varied, but pattaya is not really known for it`s big spenders, and you wouldn't just come here to shop, well yes but not that type of shopping ,lol. look at the new harbour in pattaya klang very few people scuttling around there now, and many places will be gone soon I think, and it`s not full yet anyway, also big c north pattaya is slowly going downhill, more empty shops about now and even black canyon coffee has gone now, so whilst it sounds great for new attractions coming to pattaya, most of the people shopping are the Russians but lot less now, and falangs treating there 20 year old girlfriends to new phones and gold or clothes, it just aint cosmopolitan enough, everything is mostly the same everywhere, shops bars,go go`s. it still has a very long way to go to become a nice beachfront resort,

Can't wait for the new Terminal 21...So what if some

Of the other, older, outdated malls close or are torn

Down, It's called progress and Upscale shopping!!

Really enjoy T21 in BKK.

Can't wait for the new Terminal 21...So what if some

Of the other, older, outdated malls close or are torn

Down, It's called progress and Upscale shopping!!

Really enjoy T21 in BKK.

The older malls will just lower their rent....Retail stores love

nothing better than paying low rent...

Even the king of malls Centeral Festival has a number of

empty store fronts that are boarded up with nice art work..

There are loads of people in Pattaya who value

value shopping over upscale T21 shopping....

I don't actually think it would be a great attraction although I like the one in bkk, it is pretty vibrant and very varied, but pattaya is not really known for it`s big spenders, and you wouldn't just come here to shop, well yes but not that type of shopping ,lol. . . look at the new harbour in pattaya klang very few people scuttling around there now . . . .

You seem stuck in the 80s - early 90s, pal. That's exactly the reason give for those highly accurate predictions that Central would go bankrupt.

But even before that, ace TVF economists predicted with usual accuracy the failures of Siam Paragon and Central World.

As for Harbor, clearly you haven't been there, haven't been reading the forum, and don't know anything. Why bother posting utter nonsense?

Went in for the first time today, around 10:40. Easy to get in, but the place filled up quite fast.

Made my first visit this morning, quite impressed with it and feel its going to be a great success. The place was buzzing even though it was early in the day.

Totally agree Rimmer.

I go as early as possible with my children in order to get parked up better & also because the queues on the 7th floor for the play area can build quickly,

As for "very long way to go to become a nice beachfront resort," the thing is, no matter your "definition," Pattaya is nice enough to have 8.1 million overnight visitors last year and so rank #8 among the top ten Asia Pacific destinations--not according to TAT, but the MasterCard Asia Pacific Destinations Index. The Hilton, hardly one of yer Soi Buakhao fleabags, boasted a 92% occupancy rate during the high season. So that's doing quite well actually, and gives an entirely different view of the 80s - early 90s Pattaya you're familiar with.

Even the king of malls Centeral Festival has a number of

empty store fronts that are boarded up with nice art work..

Means absolutely nothing. Businesses come and go in malls--everywhere. The upscale "super regional" mall I frequented in the past, one of the best, richest, and continually successful in the USA since 1958, has 250 retail spaces. A few of them are always vacant and awaiting a new tenant. Since it was built probably 10 other big malls have also been built in the suburbs surrounding. Only a handful of shops remain from those 30 years ago and the original flagships have all gone, replaced with others. If any ol' TVF deathwatcher waddled around in there at some random interval during the week, his ol' eyeballs wouldn't see that many shoppers, certainly not enough to support the vast wealth represented there. And he just would NOT be able to understand how it stays in business and predict its imminent closure.

CentralFestival Pattaya Beach (that's "Centeral Festival") has 370 shops. So you just go around all 7 floors periodically, not just the basement (those little stalls don't count), and let us know when you count more than 10%--that's 37--"boarded up." Report back and then you can chortle and gurgle and we'll agree there's a problem. Otherwise, please refrain from silliness, thank you.

The main problème in Pattaya is the traffic. If the mayor can sort that out, and stop all the tour buses blocking up the streets, ( total ban on parking on either side of 2 nd road and beach rd) Then more people would come into town more often. A new shopping mall such as Terminal 21 is a good idea. I think most of you out there are male, so don't particularly like shopping ? Have you been to Terminal 21 Bangkok ? The clothes/ fashion shops are different from what you see elsewhere in Pattaya. There are many new designers and small companies there. The fashion choice is completely different and much more inventive. Whereas malls like Central Festival have mainly big shops , Zara, H&M etc, Terminal 21 are individual shops selling fashion you won't find in Central !! Let's be honest, the small clothes shops in Thailand would never tempt a foreigner, design and quality being terrible. All these shops sell the same rubbish. So I think a new mall selling real fashion will be a hit. By the way, Terminal 21 also has great men's fashion too ! Also, these shops aren't selling high priced articles, there are prices for everyone. I see a lot of Thais there, and they spend !!!! What would be nice is a few wine bars , coffee outlets and desserts like in Bangkok as well.

Works started

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Yes work started a few weeks ago at least. It appears the they might be moving the drainage back to widen the road. I really hope they do that because otherwise it is going to be a traffic disaster.

Perhaps Terminal 21 will have adequate parking for buses. That would be nice. Those are what cause all the delays, damage, and traffic in this town. I've got a motorcycle so I usually am able to maneuver thru it all. But there are times when I'd just rather stay home than go out shopping because of the hassle of traffic and grid lock.