New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[dick dasterdly]

I have a problem with the EU being undemocratic, wasteful of money and corrupt - but I feel the same way about Brit. govts. on the latter two points.

The one thing I like about the EU is its socialist policies for ordinary workers, whereas the Brit. govt. always does its best to stop these policies.

Worryingly, I note that many Brexit supporters hate the socialist policies - which only reinforces my fears that a Brexit vote will lead to more right-wing, capitalistic policies - great for the wealthy, not so much for the poor or ordinary person .

So, I've gone from a Brexit voter (the EU needs to reform, and perhaps then we can re-join) to a possible Remain voter (on the basis that the Brit. govt. will have the excuse it needs to erode workers' rights).

Edited June 5, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[allanos]

I have a problem with the EU being undemocratic, wasteful of money and corrupt - but I feel the same way about Brit. govts. on the latter two points.

The one thing I like about the EU is its socialist policies for ordinary workers, whereas the Brit. govt. always does its best to stop these policies.

Worryingly, I note that many Brexit supporters hate the socialist policies - which only reinforces my fears that a Brexit vote will lead to more right-wing, capitalistic policies - great for the wealthy, not so much for the poor or ordinary person .

So, I've gone from a Brexit voter (the EU needs to reform, and perhaps then we can re-join) to a possible Remain voter (on the basis that the Brit. govt. will have the excuse it needs to erode workers' rights).

Although your new views may be well-founded, DD, it would seem that you believe that a Conservative government (right-wing, capitalist) will be in power in

perpetuity, in a Brexit scenario.

Surely, given one of the underlying tenets of Brexit supporters being that a new government can be voted into power every 4 years in the United Kingdom (as

opposed to the permanency of the power structure in the European Union), any erosion or undermining of workers' rights can be remedied subsequently by

voting a leftist-orientated government into power at the end of a period of Tory mandate from the people? This would be British democracy at work, if it was

the desire of the people, something which doesn't obtain in the European Union.

Perhaps you should reconsider

[dick dasterdly]

I have a problem with the EU being undemocratic, wasteful of money and corrupt - but I feel the same way about Brit. govts. on the latter two points.

The one thing I like about the EU is its socialist policies for ordinary workers, whereas the Brit. govt. always does its best to stop these policies.

Worryingly, I note that many Brexit supporters hate the socialist policies - which only reinforces my fears that a Brexit vote will lead to more right-wing, capitalistic policies - great for the wealthy, not so much for the poor or ordinary person .

So, I've gone from a Brexit voter (the EU needs to reform, and perhaps then we can re-join) to a possible Remain voter (on the basis that the Brit. govt. will have the excuse it needs to erode workers' rights).

Although your new views may be well-founded, DD, it would seem that you believe that a Conservative government (right-wing, capitalist) will be in power in perpetuity, in a Brexit scenario.

Surely, given one of the underlying tenets of Brexit supporters being that a new government can be voted into power every 4 years in the United Kingdom (as opposed to the permanency of the power structure in the European Union), any erosion or undermining of workers' rights can be remedied subsequently by voting a leftist-orientated government into power at the end of a period of Tory mandate from the people? This would be British democracy at work, if it was the desire of the people, something which doesn't obtain in the European Union.

Perhaps you should reconsider

Good point, but IMO all Brit. govts are happy to take advantage of reduced workers' rights - it suits their wallet....

We're used to this, which is why I'm more concerned about so many posters thinking that the EU is too socialist - rather than the more important concerns (IMO) of:- last chance to get out/cost/undemocratic etc.

[sandyf]

I have a problem with the EU being undemocratic, wasteful of money and corrupt - but I feel the same way about Brit. govts. on the latter two points.

The one thing I like about the EU is its socialist policies for ordinary workers, whereas the Brit. govt. always does its best to stop these policies.

Worryingly, I note that many Brexit supporters hate the socialist policies - which only reinforces my fears that a Brexit vote will lead to more right-wing, capitalistic policies - great for the wealthy, not so much for the poor or ordinary person .

So, I've gone from a Brexit voter (the EU needs to reform, and perhaps then we can re-join) to a possible Remain voter (on the basis that the Brit. govt. will have the excuse it needs to erode workers' rights).

Although your new views may be well-founded, DD, it would seem that you believe that a Conservative government (right-wing, capitalist) will be in power in

perpetuity, in a Brexit scenario.

Surely, given one of the underlying tenets of Brexit supporters being that a new government can be voted into power every 4 years in the United Kingdom (as

opposed to the permanency of the power structure in the European Union), any erosion or undermining of workers' rights can be remedied subsequently by

voting a leftist-orientated government into power at the end of a period of Tory mandate from the people? This would be British democracy at work, if it was

the desire of the people, something which doesn't obtain in the European Union.

Perhaps you should reconsider

That's a great game plan, waste more of the taxpayers money rewriting the rule book every 4 years. The interest on the national debt is already over 8 times the EU contributions, but no one wants to know about that.

[allanos]

I have a problem with the EU being undemocratic, wasteful of money and corrupt - but I feel the same way about Brit. govts. on the latter two points.

The one thing I like about the EU is its socialist policies for ordinary workers, whereas the Brit. govt. always does its best to stop these policies.

Worryingly, I note that many Brexit supporters hate the socialist policies - which only reinforces my fears that a Brexit vote will lead to more right-wing, capitalistic policies - great for the wealthy, not so much for the poor or ordinary person .

So, I've gone from a Brexit voter (the EU needs to reform, and perhaps then we can re-join) to a possible Remain voter (on the basis that the Brit. govt. will have the excuse it needs to erode workers' rights).

Although your new views may be well-founded, DD, it would seem that you believe that a Conservative government (right-wing, capitalist) will be in power in

perpetuity, in a Brexit scenario.

Surely, given one of the underlying tenets of Brexit supporters being that a new government can be voted into power every 4 years in the United Kingdom (as

opposed to the permanency of the power structure in the European Union), any erosion or undermining of workers' rights can be remedied subsequently by

voting a leftist-orientated government into power at the end of a period of Tory mandate from the people? This would be British democracy at work, if it was

the desire of the people, something which doesn't obtain in the European Union.

Perhaps you should reconsider

That's a great game plan, waste more of the taxpayers money rewriting the rule book every 4 years. The interest on the national debt is already over 8 times the EU contributions, but no one wants to know about that.

Not sure I understand your comment Sandy. The rules of the "rule book" have been in operation for generations; it's not a new rule book. My comments

didn't advocate change.

I guess you are suggesting that the Scottish or British Parliaments should be abolished, and that you would prefer direct rule from the European Union?

[Cook my sock]

Of all people John Major's rant about what's wrong with the Brexit campaign was most convincing.

[nontabury]

The whole point is being missed in that interview, I don't think British people worry about Poles/Lithuanians/Eastern Europeans etc coming in working paying tax, we go there and other EU countries also

Lets talk about the elephant in the room, we went to stop Muslims coming in............ they don't integrate, will never find jobs, they take over whole communities and want to turn our country into theirs, will always been seen as a threat due to their hatred of us infidels

Let other Muslin counties take them .....

Saudi Arabia has 100,000 tents with A/c . All empty. Why are they not taking in fellow Muslims?

[Cook my sock]

If anything, our borders are more protected by being in the EU.

[nontabury]

I have a problem with the EU being undemocratic, wasteful of money and corrupt - but I feel the same way about Brit. govts. on the latter two points.

The one thing I like about the EU is its socialist policies for ordinary workers, whereas the Brit. govt. always does its best to stop these policies.

Worryingly, I note that many Brexit supporters hate the socialist policies - which only reinforces my fears that a Brexit vote will lead to more right-wing, capitalistic policies - great for the wealthy, not so much for the poor or ordinary person .

So, I've gone from a Brexit voter (the EU needs to reform, and perhaps then we can re-join) to a possible Remain voter (on the basis that the Brit. govt. will have the excuse it needs to erode workers' rights).

Although your new views may be well-founded, DD, it would seem that you believe that a Conservative government (right-wing, capitalist) will be in power in perpetuity, in a Brexit scenario.

Surely, given one of the underlying tenets of Brexit supporters being that a new government can be voted into power every 4 years in the United Kingdom (as opposed to the permanency of the power structure in the European Union), any erosion or undermining of workers' rights can be remedied subsequently by voting a leftist-orientated government into power at the end of a period of Tory mandate from the people? This would be British democracy at work, if it was the desire of the people, something which doesn't obtain in the European Union.

Perhaps you should reconsider

Good point, but IMO all Brit. govts are happy to take advantage of reduced workers' rights - it suits their wallet....

We're used to this, which is why I'm more concerned about so many posters thinking that the EU is too socialist - rather than the more important concerns (IMO) of:- last chance to get out/cost/undemocratic etc.

I think a more important concern should be " is the EU Democratic "

[nontabury]

If anything, our borders are more protected by being in the EU.

You're having a laugh " Yes"

[nontabury]

I like this guy,

Jacob Rees Mogg

The first time Jacob Rees Mogg ran for election as MP, he canvassed with his nanny. Memorable quote: 'I gradually realised that whatever I happened to be speaking about, the number of voters in my favour dropped as soon as I opened my mouth.' Rees Mogg is known as 'the honourable member for the early 20th century'. Latest heroic figure paraded by the forum BREXIT team.

Listen to what he has to say,not his toff accent. He hit bulls eye every time.

[arjunadawn]

Come on UK...from Magna Carta to this... You'd be better off enslaving yourselves, at least you'd retain some autonomy, and dignity! Get out and save yourselves.

https://euobserver.com/economic/32222

[allanos]

Of all people John Major's rant about what's wrong with the Brexit campaign was most convincing.

One politician calling another politician "deceitful" is quite amusing, really. However, I do believe that Brexit should have clarified,

their position regarding the different between gross and net funds sent to the EU, and hopefully they will do so in future (if we

remain in the EU, of course).Their hands have been caught in the cookie jar, but it is more an error of omission than commission,

isn't it?

Although a portion of British funds sent to the European Union are remitted back to the UK, the fact is that these funds are totally

under the EU's remit, not Britain's. The bottom line is that the EU's priorities when it comes to allocating these funds may not,

and almost certainly ARE NOT, the UK's priorities. In fact, some of these EU "allocations" are deemed to have been highly suspect

in what they have tried to achieve with them. Perhaps some political suasion, in many cases? We should not be surprised if this

were indeed the case.

[allanos]

Come on UK...from Magna Carta to this... You'd be better off enslaving yourselves, at least you'd retain some autonomy, and dignity! Get out and save yourselves.

https://euobserver.com/economic/32222

The thin end of the wedge.

Jean-Paul Juncker's statement is specious at best.

I am reminded that "reasons that sound good are not the same as good sound reasons"!

[beautifulthailand99]

Starting to worry it might be a Brexit - the missus is transferring 5K sterling to baht tmrw at 51 to the pound - some economists reckon the pound might get hammeed by up to 20% on a Brexit.Better safe than sorry.

Edited June 5, 2016 by beautifulthailand99

[SheungWan]

I like this guy,

Jacob Rees Mogg

The first time Jacob Rees Mogg ran for election as MP, he canvassed with his nanny. Memorable quote: 'I gradually realised that whatever I happened to be speaking about, the number of voters in my favour dropped as soon as I opened my mouth.' Rees Mogg is known as 'the honourable member for the early 20th century'. Latest heroic figure paraded by the forum BREXIT team.

Listen to what he has to say,not his toff accent. He hit bulls eye every time.

That would presumably include the time Rees-Mogg had to apologise for plagiarism and also the time he faked the genuine concerns of a so-called constituent in a pamphlet who turned out to be a London-based employee of Rees Mogg's own investment firm. Rees-Mogg has addressed the Traditional Britain Group, successor to the Western Goals Institute and a bridge organisation between the Looney Right of the Tory Party and overtly fascist organisations such as the BNP. A place where members of both can hold hands. These are the bulls eyes to keep in mind.

[arjunadawn]

This vote will reverberate for many years.

Great summation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JFt-pRIvL9E

[Thaiwine]

Just reading DC's profile on wiki, this quote made me laugh.

Cameron has said he is "proud" of the role United Kingdom played in the overthrow of Gaddafi's government.^[181] Cameron also stated that UK had played a "very important role",^[182] adding that "a lot of people said that Tripoli was completely different to Benghazi and that the two don't get on – they were wrong. … People who said 'this is all going to be an enormous swamp of Islamists and extremists' – they were wrong."^[183]

^{The man we should trust leading the Remain camp, seems he can get things wrong.}

[Thaiwine]

And caught out telling porkies too

In August 2013, Cameron lost a motion in favour of bombing Syrian armed forces in response to the Ghouta chemical attack, becoming the first prime minister to suffer such a foreign-policy defeat since 1782.^[187] In September 2014, MPs passed a motion in favour of British planes joining, at the request of the Iraqi government, a bombing campaign against Islamic State (IS) targets in Iraq;^[188] the motion explicitly expressed parliament's disapproval of UK military action in Syria.^[189] Cameron promised that, before expanding UK air strikes to include IS units in Syria, he would seek parliamentary approval.^[190]

In July 2015, a Freedom of Information (FOI) request by Reprieve revealed that, without the knowledge of UK parliamentarians, RAF pilots had, in fact, been bombing targets in Syria, and that Cameron knew of this.[

[chiang mai]

"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgement and a downward spiral for British society. "The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said"

.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/05/british-voters-succumbing-to-impulse-irritation-and-anger---and/

"impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes", surely not!

[chiang mai]

"The Bank of England will draw on lessons learned from the Scottish referendum and the global financial crisis as it steps up its preparations for a possible decision by Britain to leave the EU on 23 June.

The first of three special funding operations by Threadneedle Street will be launched on 14 June to ensure the UK’s commercial banks have the necessary cash to cope with any turmoil caused by the uncertainty surrounding a Brexit vote.

A key decision would be whether to raise interest rates in order to prevent a falling pound leading to higher inflation, or whether to ease policy – either through a cut in the cost of borrowing or through an expansion of the Bank’s £375bn quantitative easing programme – to support growth".

"https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/05/bank-of-england-brexit-preparations-uk-banks".

[SheungWan]

And caught out telling porkies too

In August 2013, Cameron lost a motion in favour of bombing Syrian armed forces in response to the Ghouta chemical attack, becoming the first prime minister to suffer such a foreign-policy defeat since 1782.^[187] In September 2014, MPs passed a motion in favour of British planes joining, at the request of the Iraqi government, a bombing campaign against Islamic State (IS) targets in Iraq;^[188] the motion explicitly expressed parliament's disapproval of UK military action in Syria.^[189] Cameron promised that, before expanding UK air strikes to include IS units in Syria, he would seek parliamentary approval.^[190]

In July 2015, a Freedom of Information (FOI) request by Reprieve revealed that, without the knowledge of UK parliamentarians, RAF pilots had, in fact, been bombing targets in Syria, and that Cameron knew of this.[

Whether it is hopeless populists on the hard left or nostalgic right-wing nationalists on the right they are happy to join in an unholy alliance under the flag of BREXIT to have another go at defeating Cameron which they have otherwise failed to do for two elections running. A ragbag of discontents all trying to ride the same donkey while holding hands.

Edited June 6, 2016 by SheungWan

[JAS21]

Personally I have little idea which will be best for the future ... IN or OUT ... but I like Borris. Bit unfortunate about his initials though...

[Grouse]

John Major telling it like it is

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36454732

What I don't understand is why the pro-Brexit people have to stoop to lies and deceit. There are perfectly rational points to be made. Major is telling the truth here.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

What can one say about Farage?

http://news.sky.com/story/1707208/farage-staying-in-eu-risks-more-sex-attacks

Truely awful person. What an embarrassment for pro-Brexit types! I can't imagine many would go along with Farage's views

[i claudius]

John Major , a failed MP a failed politician , like Blair ,the more he tells us to stay the more i think we should leave .

[Grouse]

John Major , a failed MP a failed politician , like Blair ,the more he tells us to stay the more i think we should leave .

So, just for our amusement, please tell us who you rate? Corbyn? Thatcher? Go on, give as a laugh! How many terms did Major win? Blair? Your criteria for success must be pretty demanding.

Oh! Wait a minute, they're both pro Remain! That's why they are failures ( unlike Redwood and Gove - he's a bit odd)

[chiang mai]

Is this Gove and was he really in Ghostbusters?

[Grouse]

Ok, Nontabury, Brexit the Movie.....

Firstly it's too partisan. It fails to make the arguments. Only fools think this is a clear cut decision. There are sensible pros and cons

Secondly it's a Neocon wet dream. A post EU sunlit upland with prosperity supercharged by reduced workers rights and regulations on safety

Thirdly, it's massively out of date. Butter mountains? I think that was fixed about 12 years ago.

The poor fishing industry? Greedy bastards should have stopped over fishing by trawlers

It's a Thatcherite agenda with all that went with that. Thatcher saw British manufacturing decline from 25% to 10% of our GDP and destroyed British society

On the plus side, I discovered the EU is much more democratic than I thought

For more I suggest looking at Quora for "best rebuttle of Brexit the Movie"

There is also an excellent short called Brexit the Movie - a Review

Frankly it depresses me that so many of my fellow countrymen fall for this tripe! What an indictment of our education system!

[Grouse]

Huffing ton on the propaganda movie

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/9915388.html?edition=uk

Bring back child labour I say