Bangkok lifestyle -- Baby, and no car

[USNret]

My wife & I hate driving in BKK with a passion.  In the years I lived there, got around happily with public transportation.  On rare occasions, I'd rent a car for trips out of town, but never had the need in our daily life.

This time might be different. We're coming back after living abroad, this time with a toddler in tow.  We still don't want a car, but that can be hard on a little tyke.  I know the sidewalks are hazardous for strollers, the kid will get pooped walking in the Bangkok heat, hard to carry a kid & groceries at the same time, etc. etc.  We plan to rent a condo fairly near one of the Sukhumvit BTS stations, somewhere with a grocery store nearby.  We can easily afford taxi as much as we need and that might be a reasonable substitute. Any thoughts about living a car-less life in Bangkok for a couple with young child?  TIA.

[brewsterbudgen]

I can't really help you, as without our car I don't know how my family (we have a 2-year-old) would cope!  The BTS is not very child friendly as many stations still don't have lifts and the trains are normally very crowded, so getting on with a push chair can be tricky.  One good thing is that Thai people are excellent at giving up seats for kids.  Pavements/sidewalks are a nightmare with many holes, steps, barriers and other impediments like motorcycles! 

 

I'm a lot happier with my kid secure in his car-seat, and although driving in Bangkok is frustrating and congested, it's relatively safe as everything moves quite slowly.  We make weekly trips to Big C to stock up with supplies, trips to Ekkamai Gateway for Kidszoonia, to Emporium for the park and then occasionally trips down to Ban Chang.

 

I know you know this already, but thought I'd get the replies started!

[janejira]

We live near the BTS but also have a car which makes travelling with baby so much more convenient. Most BTS stations don't have working elevators so you will be carrying the stroller and baby up and down the stairs. Sidewalks are also super unfriendly for strollers.

 

We use a baby carrier. A lot of the larger shopping malls have strollers you can check out at the information desk which can make life easier.

 

 

[USNret]

Thanks for the tip. I had forgotten about the lack of elevators at BTS.  Either way, it's a trade off. We'll have to really think about this. 

[brewsterbudgen]

7 minutes ago, USNret said:

Thanks for the tip. I had forgotten about the lack of elevators at BTS.  Either way, it's a trade off. We'll have to really think about this. 

They are slowly (very slowly) installing more.  Phra Khanong should have a lift soon and the one by the park at Phrom Phong (next to the park) looks finished but isn't functioning yet.

[fishism]

We have lived in bkk for 3 years without a car and mainly get around with taxis, the pushchair easily fits in the boot or the passenger seat but very rarely use it because at the destination it is usually to busy or awkward.

I do worry about lack of car seat in taxi everyone we go out.

As mentioned above shopping malls have pushchairs to borrow although maybe not all. Supermarkets have child trolleys where there is a car attached to the front for toddler to sit in.

I think we would have been out and about more if had a car but that's because I hate taxis.

There are phone apps that help call a taxi which is useful when stuck with trolley full of food and no taxi rank.



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[USNret]

31 minutes ago, fishism said:

We have lived in bkk for 3 years without a car and mainly get around with taxis, the pushchair easily fits in the boot or the passenger seat but very rarely use it because at the destination it is usually to busy or awkward.

I do worry about lack of car seat in taxi everyone we go out.

As mentioned above shopping malls have pushchairs to borrow although maybe not all. Supermarkets have child trolleys where there is a car attached to the front for toddler to sit in.

I think we would have been out and about more if had a car but that's because I hate taxis.

There are phone apps that help call a taxi which is useful when stuck with trolley full of food and no taxi rank.



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Thanks Fish.  Can you tell me what app you use for taxis? I don't think they had those when I lived there (about 6 years ago). 

[Oceanbat]

I lived in Bangkok with and without children and think you are just going to have to bite the bullet.

Taxis - while plentiful have no rear seltbelts or child seats.
BTS - No elevators, I had to carry a stroller up and down stairs many times and it blows in summer
Uber - def a better option than taxis. Easy to order and usually have rear seltbelts. Only issue might be availability when you really need one.
Walking - motorcycles on footpaths, holes in the ground, non existent footpaths and hot.

We live in central Bangkok near the BTS and wrestled with the same decision. Ultimately given the state of the roads and drivers having our own car with approved safety seats meant we decided to just bite the bullet. I think it will be one of those things where once you do get one you will wonder why you didn't earlier.

OB

Edited February 8, 2017 by Oceanbat

[fishism]

Thanks Fish.  Can you tell me what app you use for taxis? I don't think they had those when I lived there (about 6 years ago). 

I use Grab but there are a few. In taxi now and although they have seat belt strap there is no buckle, I thought they just hide them but cannot find one.


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[chopin2]

I once thought that it was pure madness to buy a car in bangkok, with easy access to mrt bts taxis. All that changed one day when a taxidriver braked in panik, and  my wife and 2y daughter was pressed into the back of the driversseat. Lucky it was at low speed so no major injuries. Still, it was a wakeupp call. In the matter of days i bought a car and a carseat.

 

Bottom line: best insurance for your family is to get a car, and never again be in the hands of a drunk taxidriver.

[fishism]

I once thought that it was pure madness to buy a car in bangkok, with easy access to mrt bts taxis. All that changed one day when a taxidriver braked in panik, and  my wife and 2y daughter was pressed into the back of the driversseat. Lucky it was at low speed so no major injuries. Still, it was a wakeupp call. In the matter of days i bought a car and a carseat.
 
Bottom line: best insurance for your family is to get a car, and never again be in the hands of a drunk taxidriver.

We too had a near miss when both front wheels fell off or some sort of suspension collapse, not sure, but it was at low speed and we did have a carseat although just held in place due to no seatbelts. We just flagged down another taxi. I now don't get in old taxis.

I don't want the girlfriend to drive letting the boy sit on her lap as she probably would.


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[SGD]

Though not in Bangkok but rather Pattaya, I lived for years singly and then for more years as a couple without a car. But when a child came along, we made the decision to buy a car or for us at the time a 4 cab truck. As soon as we bought it, perhaps within days, we couldn't imagine how we had lived without it for so long.

 

True, there is a cost but it is quite minimal. Depreciation is far slower than the west for instance. Ease of life rises exponentially.

 

From a safety angle, there is no comparison. You are back in control again with a modern seatbelt, car seat, fully insured and serviced vehicle etc. You will understand this immediately.

 

If money were no object, I would get a western car, not some home made tin can. If you look at the safety record of some of the locally produced vehicles then you see that they are not what we would expect "back home". Think BMW / Volvo / Audi SUV instead of Toyota Fortuner / Isuzu Mu7 etc.

 

Lastly, get an automatic.

[ocddave]

I can't even think about life without the car, and having to transport the baby around. We tried in the beginning, but just one day sitting near the curb is sweltering heat, waiting on a taxi, who may or may not have a good AC unit, and no tinted windows, baby screaming, diapers needing changing, just isn't worth the hassle. Now we can plan our trips, have everything we need with us, a top of the line functioning carseat, and be able to deal with almost any scenario that pop's up. The first thing we did when I got here was purchase a brand new car, again for peace of mind, and I insisted on a hatchback with a rearview camera, I also insisted on a smaller car (parking can be tight sometimes in Thailand...555), its the perfect size car and does everything I ask of it.

Edited February 9, 2017 by ocddave

[1FinickyOne]

Bangkok traffic is worse than ever. I prefer taxi but a big part of the decision might be how stressed out you personally get. If it's stressful will you become short tempered with your family?

[brewsterbudgen]

Bangkok traffic is worse than ever. I prefer taxi but a big part of the decision might be how stressed out you personally get. If it's stressful will you become short tempered with your family?

Being stuck in traffic in a taxi is a lot more stressful than being in your own car.

[1FinickyOne]

45 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Being stuck in traffic in a taxi is a lot more stressful than being in your own car.

Even if you are driving and the kids are screaming? And then they start fighting and you have to break it up as your wife is momentarily disabled having taken a stiff right to her nose and you also need your hands free to control the flow of blood and the phone is ringing and it is your ailing mum from Staffordshire and she needs your help?

 

I think that would be a difficult time to negotiate the traffic, but maybe that's just me. I don't like stress. In a taxi I can read a book. 

[SiSePuede419]

Apparently "sophisticated" means sitting in a car in traffic ?

[Deepinthailand]

Just do as most parents I say parents in the loose sense of the word. Whack the rug rat rats into a nursery all day pick it up put it to bed then quickly put it back into nusery. Now this carries on through the rug rats younger life at school in for breakfast club then after school clubs. Then you can do as parents do and rant and cuss when it's school holidays blaming the school teachers for the fact that they as parents have to look after there own offspring.lifes a bind. You'll get a system that what being a parent is all about.

[fire2rescue99]

Whether you have a car or not, get a cheap, collapsing umbrella stroller. Tesco has them for 400-600 THB. This is the one with the curved handles similar to an umbrella, with a cotton or canvas sling for the child to sit upon. It is super lightweight. When needed simply scoop the child up, collapse the stroller with one hand and hop on the bus, escalator, hump the stairs over the pedestrian bridge. I wore two of these out with 2 kids. One of them had a sling for the shoulder, but can live without it. They are so cheap, you don't have to worry about damaging or leaving one behind. But, it is the lightweight that makes it the ticket. Some of those have a canopy, but I found that just added weight. I always carried a clean handkerchief to cover the child with or tied it off at an angle to block sun. Do use the snap seatbelt to prevent the child from being launched when you hit the hole or hard spot that you eventually will. Central sells high end brand name fancy versions that your wife will probably want. Resist. They weigh 3 to 5 times as much as the cheap one and are more involved to collapse on a moments notice.

   Whenever I rode the cheap green bus or BTS and had the child and stroller, most Thai folks would offer a seat. Yes, you need a car to get out of the city, but mostly it is a pain in the arse to travel in town with one. Good luck Papa!

[thailand49]

 

Based on what you wrote... you and your wife seem fit and able people?

 

Come back give going without a car as you did before and use a Taxi whenever you go shopping. Get yourself a good lightweight stroller with a cover for him. Since you are going to be living in Thailand with your kid it is advisable for the kid to start getting use to the heat!

Cars will always be there for purchase.  Sometimes doing the basic gives you the right answer?

[USNret]

4 hours ago, thailand49 said:

 

Based on what you wrote... you and your wife seem fit and able people?

 

Come back give going without a car as you did before and use a Taxi whenever you go shopping. Get yourself a good lightweight stroller with a cover for him. Since you are going to be living in Thailand with your kid it is advisable for the kid to start getting use to the heat!

Cars will always be there for purchase.  Sometimes doing the basic gives you the right answer?

 

Thanks, 49.  I think this is the best answer of all.  Like, once I get a car I can't give it up. So better to try without & see how it goes.  On the plus side, last time I lived there, I lost 20 lbs just due to all the walking around in the heat.  Back in the States, I gained that 20 lbs back.  So I can definitely use the exercise.  Good point also about getting used to the heat.  If millions of SWA babies can do it, mine can too.

[chopin2]

The first year or so, a baby carrier is very usefull. And much safer than strollers.  We used this brand:

https://www.babybjorn.com/baby-carriers/

 

When the baby gets heavier, i would look for a light weight stroller with some large wheels. Have a look at this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015ZL8IWK?th=1

 

If you choose a stroller with tiny wheels, you will get nowhere i Bangkok.

[LarryLEB]

Just another option for you...

 

When we want to go out to do a lot of shopping, we phone the same driver each time.  He takes us to all the places we want to go, waits while we shop, then returns us home.  We book him a day or two prior to when we want to go.

 

We chose a driver with a large, comfortable vehicle; and the driver is one who is careful and calm.  The driver and I determine the cost before setting out.  The meter is not used.  We've used the current fellow for about five years now.

 

Makes for an unstressed shopping outing.  (And no worries about where to park; leave it up to the driver.)  When we're ready to be picked up from one place, we phone; then, we're off with him to the next place, and so on.

[eppic]

We have been in your situation and ultimately felt we had no choice but to get a car.  We used Uber/Grab (using our travel system car seat) for the first four months, with the occasional BTS trip, but these options will absolutely add a lot of stress and difficulties. Don't even think about the mentally unstable taxi drivers if you value your child's life. 

 

For our child's 4-month birthday we got him a new car (HRV with full safety features - rare in Thailand - and ideal for small family in BKK).

 

After a year we have put only 1900 km on the car, but it was ABSOLUTELY the right decision. We live in a convenient area, 100 meters from the Ratchadmari BTS and a short 10-minute stroll to the major malls on decent, wide sidewalks (again, rare in BKK and unheard of around Sukhumvit). I now simply cannot imagine being without a car - Good luck with BTS or other options during rush hour and/rain.  And yes, we are very often caught in horrible traffic jams, but I would certainly rather be stuck in my own car -- ever have a child have a poop and/or meltdown in a jammed taxi or Uber? We have, it wasn't pleasant for anyone.

 

There is also a reason you see few small children on the BTS but the malls are packed with them. The lifts have mostly been installed but it seems the court order didn't actually force BTS to turn them on (Ratchadamri lift finished for at least 6 months but not yet turned on)  --- do you fancy struggling down steep stairs carrying a child as people push past you? Trust me, it's stressful -- normal Western etiquette does not apply here. My wife has almost never been offered the seats for those with small children, etc. When offered, it has almost always been a farang, the vast majority of Thais will glue themselves to their phones and pretend not to see you.

 

 Good luck whatever you decide, but I think your child's safety and comfort should be your top priority, assuming you have the financial resources (which it appears you do).  Plus, believe it or not you will eventually adjust to the bizarre road behavior here -- its simply not a place to drive when half aware...If you assume every other driver (and especially motorbikes) will do something stupid, which they usually do, it will all seem normal after a time.

 

P.S. - Since your child is already a toddler, I would assume that you have a decent stroller.  In not, or if you want an additional one (we have three -- medium size in the car for mall use, another full size for walking, ultracompact for travel and bts) -- absolutely buy the stroller and/or carseat before coming to Thailand. Prices here are usually about triple U.S. prices for most reputable brands (100% tariff + higher profit margin). Our last stroller was purchased in Singapore for half of Thailand price but still more than US.

Edited February 10, 2017 by eppic
P.S.

[ocddave]

35 minutes ago, eppic said:

After a year we have put only 1900 km on the car

Holy Cow, I thought I was a slacker....555 

 

I think I have only about 1200 km on ours over the last 3 months ;-)

[eppic]

4 minutes ago, ocddave said:

Holy Cow, I thought I was a slacker....555 

 

I think I have only about 1200 km on ours over the last 3 months ;-)

OK, to fairly compare our "slacker scores", I should disclose that we are still two weeks short of a year and we spent more than two months out of the country. Plus, we sometimes go a week without driving -- we try to walk during cool season (short this year) and/or when the jams look particularly horrible. We typically use BTS when the little one isn't coming along. Anyway, I am a little embarrassed about how few km we have on the car, so it's nice to know we aren't the only ones. If the car measured hours used like a plane, accounting for those 1.5 hour, 2-km trips, no doubt the story would seem different - but that 1.5 hours, with our screaming toddler in a smelly taxi driven by a doped-up lunatic, would truly be torture

[USNret]

11 hours ago, LarryLEB said:

Just another option for you...

 

When we want to go out to do a lot of shopping, we phone the same driver each time.  He takes us to all the places we want to go, waits while we shop, then returns us home.  We book him a day or two prior to when we want to go.

 

We chose a driver with a large, comfortable vehicle; and the driver is one who is careful and calm.  The driver and I determine the cost before setting out.  The meter is not used.  We've used the current fellow for about five years now.

 

Makes for an unstressed shopping outing.  (And no worries about where to park; leave it up to the driver.)  When we're ready to be picked up from one place, we phone; then, we're off with him to the next place, and so on.

Thanks Larry.  This is a terrific idea that I had not thought of.  I know families in Chiang Mai who do this.  Where or how did you find your Bangkok driver?

[chopin2]

6 hours ago, eppic said:

We have been in your situation and ultimately felt we had no choice but to get a car.  We used Uber/Grab (using our travel system car seat) for the first four months, with the occasional BTS trip, but these options will absolutely add a lot of stress and difficulties. Don't even think about the mentally unstable taxi drivers if you value your child's life. 

 

For our child's 4-month birthday we got him a new car (HRV with full safety features - rare in Thailand - and ideal for small family in BKK).

 

After a year we have put only 1900 km on the car, but it was ABSOLUTELY the right decision. We live in a convenient area, 100 meters from the Ratchadmari BTS and a short 10-minute stroll to the major malls on decent, wide sidewalks (again, rare in BKK and unheard of around Sukhumvit). I now simply cannot imagine being without a car - Good luck with BTS or other options during rush hour and/rain.  And yes, we are very often caught in horrible traffic jams, but I would certainly rather be stuck in my own car -- ever have a child have a poop and/or meltdown in a jammed taxi or Uber? We have, it wasn't pleasant for anyone.

 

There is also a reason you see few small children on the BTS but the malls are packed with them. The lifts have mostly been installed but it seems the court order didn't actually force BTS to turn them on (Ratchadamri lift finished for at least 6 months but not yet turned on)  --- do you fancy struggling down steep stairs carrying a child as people push past you? Trust me, it's stressful -- normal Western etiquette does not apply here. My wife has almost never been offered the seats for those with small children, etc. When offered, it has almost always been a farang, the vast majority of Thais will glue themselves to their phones and pretend not to see you.

 

 Good luck whatever you decide, but I think your child's safety and comfort should be your top priority, assuming you have the financial resources (which it appears you do).  Plus, believe it or not you will eventually adjust to the bizarre road behavior here -- its simply not a place to drive when half aware...If you assume every other driver (and especially motorbikes) will do something stupid, which they usually do, it will all seem normal after a time.

 

P.S. - Since your child is already a toddler, I would assume that you have a decent stroller.  In not, or if you want an additional one (we have three -- medium size in the car for mall use, another full size for walking, ultracompact for travel and bts) -- absolutely buy the stroller and/or carseat before coming to Thailand. Prices here are usually about triple U.S. prices for most reputable brands (100% tariff + higher profit margin). Our last stroller was purchased in Singapore for half of Thailand price but still more than US.

HRV is a good choice, fitts 2 car seats in the back for our 5yo and 6m baby. While HRV is about a million, there are of course cheaper options. Suzuki Ertiga starts at 655 000. Quite enough for a family to use in bangkok.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.suzuki.co.th/webpage/ertiga/price.html

[tx22cb]

The OP says he will rent a condo near "one of the Sukhumvit BTS stations, somewhere with a grocery store nearby.".

I would certainly start off without a car.  The main reason for living close to a BTS station is to avoid using cars!

Nowadays, there are major supermarkets near BTS stations, so your daily needs are met.  Thailand is not like the US - here you tend to have smaller pantries/larders and fridges, so you make more trips to nearby markets.  In my state, our fridges are huge, we buy large quantities at a time from Costco/Walmart in our trucks, we make less frequent trips to these stores.

Of course young families can live in big cities without cars - there are thousands who live in New York who are in your position (relatively close to the subway, no elevators, plenty of taxis, small stores nearby).  And NY winters are as brutal as Bangkok summers.  Similarly, those in London, Rome, Paris etc manage fine.  And I like to believe that Navy personnel are tougher than most.

[MikeyIdea]

On 09/02/2017 at 4:16 PM, kenk24 said:

Bangkok traffic is worse than ever. I prefer taxi but a big part of the decision might be how stressed out you personally get. If it's stressful will you become short tempered with your family?

 

Never saw this post. I disagree Ken. Bangkok traffic is much better today than it was 15, 20, 25 years ago. It was standard that AC bus 15 (now 514) took 35-45 minutes to get from Huaykwang to past Yaohan (Fortune Town) in the morning rush hour. There were no flyovers and no express ways and rain water took much longer to drain away back then.

 

The traffic is much faster nowadays, not to mention how much safer it is 

 

Very good comment about stress, absolutely necessary to be able to control. Understand that the family suffers otherwise 

 

There are some cheap good cars out there, buy second hand and depreciation is close to zero. Toyota Avanza is an example of a cheap good family/city car. Lots of room for the kids bicycle and all the rest. Car seat always available. Petrol is cheap

 

It's so easy to drive in Bangkok nowadays. Why not?

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by MikeyIdea