National Park in Krabi refuses to stop fleecing tourists - authorities preparing for "double pricing" showdown today

[ttthailand]

 
Spend $$ thousands on a plane ticket and hotels, then let $14 stop you from going to see something you can't see anywhere else you'll ever visit in your lifetime?
 
Sounds like false economy to me...  But then, I'm in favor of dual pricing.

That's great (not really) for the tourist but what about the retired or school teacher expat who has a Thai family and trying to get by on his 800k or perhaps 400k income a year.
I guess some people have money to burn and can't see how the rest of the world lives. " I am fine" thinking is what's wrong with this world.


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[mrmicbkktxl]

1 hour ago, denby45 said:

Has everyone lost sight of the fact that Thai's earn, in general, approximately only a tenth of what westerners earn. So tourists in my opinion should stop being Cheap Charlies and visit those wonderful parks. Imagine travelling all the way to Thailand and getting the hump over dual pricing. Cutting nose off to spite face comes to mind. Long term resident foreign pensioners here of course should be treated different and their pricing should be set at a level commensurate with their average income. I know that would be a difficult thing to work out very accurately but you could get at least somewhere near.    

 

Den

I don't know what kind of Thais do you know and meet.My neighbor is an electric engineer,50.000bt plus bonus plus overtime per month,his wife accountant 25000 plus bonus plus overtime,my girlfriend works for government,32.000bt plus many benefits,most of my thai friends are 25.000bt up,10x25000=250.000bt=7000$.I don't know any foreigner who makes 10 times more than a thai.Maybe upcountry the salary is lower,but those people upcountry are not interested to visit any beach or travel around Thailand,they are happy if they can travel on sundays to market and buy some nice food.My friends from Europe or USA,working very hard and saving money so they can come to Thailand for a vacation,nobody of them has a salary 10 times higher than a thaiI pity them if they get permanent cheated or overcharged..Besides that 10$ is not really on the cheap side,like somebody else said before,you pay to watch a waterfall without water or dirty beaches.Last yr I was in yosemite national park,they charged us 30$ for a week pass and per car not per person,same vacation I went to point reyes national sea shore,entrance was free.And on top of that those people working in there are friendly,they make you feel welcomed,here you have permanent the feeling,they only want your money,'pay,shut up,and go home'

[Dibbler]

Private operators will protest to have the government pricing reduced, then charge foreign tourists the higher entrance fee anyway.  Private operators = MAFIA!!!  Section 44 needed here to sort out the bad seeds.

[mrblue]

tbh, I'm not against a dual tier price. everywhere in the world there's something like this!

I come from a country and a town (venice,italy) where dual tier price was and still is implemented.

locals (from the town and region) has some "benefits" and discounts in some situations, like transport system (waterbus), but that's understandable, because they use them everyday, while a tourist maybe once or twice in the life!

you need a proof of residence that grants you a special card/badge.

anyway, prices are not 10 times higher.

imho thailand should make a 1:2 / 1:3 ratio to tourist prices and grant residents to use the reduced fare.

simple to say and to implement! (but not in thailand)

Edited February 22, 2017 by mrblue
spell checking

[Jimbo in Thailand]

My experience after nearly 12 years as an expat here is this:  At the park entrance just be cordial and show them your Thai driver's license and/or Yellow Book, if you're lucky enough to have one, and you'll get the Thai price.  Obviously this doesn't apply to anyone holding a tourist visa since you can't get a Thai driver's license, much less the sacred Yellow Book.  I've not been to Krabi yet, but I've been to many other National Park facilities over the years and I always get the Thai price by showing them my Thai driver's license while handing over the 40 baht fee, smiling, and being courteous and respectful. It also helps to try to speak some Thai if you can.

 

Yep, the heinous 10X dual-price system is extremely racist and irritating, but it's primarily targeting fat-wallet tourists, not expats.  If you follow my above suggestions you should be fine.  Good luck!

[chrissables]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

They already do. I produce my Thai drivers licence and pay Thai price.

 

Went to the Botanical Gardens in Phuket with my wife. Instantly was told 1000baht. Showed our Thai licences. Dropped to 200 total. 

Not at government owned National Parks, private business can decide to accept or not.

[bbbbooboo]

hmmm.....and I am sure the tourists will return in droves to be fleeced again and tell their friends who will also come in droves to be fleeced....

[maxcorrigan]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Never had this issue - I simply don't go. All foreigners should do likewise if they want to see 'farang price' stopped.

It's not always that easy, sometimes i have found myself with a group of Thai people who have taken me specially to some national site which they are proud of, if i refuse which i normally would, i spoil the day for everyone, not all Thai people realise this dual pricing goes on, or they think us flangs don't mind paying 10X entrance fee, which always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, and will avoid if possible, on top of which i've yet to see a site that's worth even the Thai price!

[brownknees]

Do the national parks keep a record of how many visitors and how much revenue they bring in?Are books ever auditid?

 

[Foozool]

I never pay even double price. I do my part. I hope others do the same until authorities change this kind of foreign treatment.

[mrmicbkktxl]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo in Thailand said:

My experience after nearly 12 years as an expat here is this:  At the park entrance just be cordial and show them your Thai driver's license and/or Yellow Book, if you're lucky enough to have one, and you'll get the Thai price.  Obviously this doesn't apply to anyone holding a tourist visa since you can't get a Thai driver's license, much less the sacred Yellow Book.  I've not been to Krabi yet, but I've been to many other National Park facilities over the years and I always get the Thai price by showing them my Thai driver's license while handing over the 40 baht fee, smiling, and being courteous and respectful. It also helps to try to speak some Thai if you can.

 

Yep, the heinous 10X dual-price system is extremely racist and irritating, but it's primarily targeting fat-wallet tourists, not expats.  If you follow my above suggestions you should be fine.  Good luck!

Fat wallet tourists go to Mauritius,Tahiti,Bhamas etc,they don't go to  Thailand.Most tourists are normal people,they work all year and save money so they can travel,there is no need to cheat or overcharge them.Lets say 2-1,but that's more than enough.Besides that most tourist who found out they got cheated or have to pay 10 times more than thais do, will go to another destination next year.So Thailand looses them,with a bit advanced thinking this is easy to figure out,oh well easy for anyone except thai

[IAMHERE]

It was only 5X pricing for farang but I refused to visit some stone ruins that the Kyhmr built 1200 years ago; only thing the Thai's had to do with it is 'discover' it was there one day. Might be different if Thai's built the parks or paid for them with their taxes; nope, most all of it was just there one day, nobody built it or thought to make it even.

[impulse]

29 minutes ago, ttthailand said:

That's great (not really) for the tourist but what about the retired or school teacher expat who has a Thai family and trying to get by on his 800k or perhaps 400k income a year.
I guess some people have money to burn and can't see how the rest of the world lives. " I am fine" thinking is what's wrong with this world.

 

The reality is that a lot of the venues I enjoy would have to severely curtail services, if not close down altogether if it weren't for dual pricing.  If everyone paid the Thai price, the places would be packed, and they'd still go broke.  If everyone had to pay the foreigner price, they'd be like a private playground, and they'd go broke.

 

It's not about having money to burn.  It's about understanding overhead absorption and incremental business, and the fact that Thailand, Inc. is run for the benefit of the owners- the Thai people.  We're just customers.  

 

And there are places in Bangkok that I won't pay the foreigner price- the aquarium below the Siam BTS station being one example.  But it's a question of the value, and not the fairness of dual pricing.  I went there once.  It wasn't worth the cost at the foreigner pricing.  I won't go back.  But just like all the hotels, restaurants, cars and private jets that are too expensive for my tastes, I don't see any fundamental unfairness in the fact that they're too rich for my blood.  That's life.

 

[trigpoint]

55 minutes ago, Alan Deer said:

Theres the rub! - you just don't know.......It isn't racist - this post shows that you really don't have a grasp on the issues at all........ gainsaying may  be your troll but it won't help understanding of why Thailand persists in this policy.

Of course it's racist, also can you enlighten me on why Thailand persists on this policy?

[Jimbo in Thailand]

19 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

It's not always that easy, sometimes i have found myself with a group of Thai people who have taken me specially to some national site which they are proud of, if i refuse which i normally would, i spoil the day for everyone, not all Thai people realise this dual pricing goes on, or they think us flangs don't mind paying 10X entrance fee, which always leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, and will avoid if possible, on top of which i've yet to see a site that's worth even the Thai price!

 

That happened to me visiting the big waterfall park on Koh Chang, way back when I was  fairly new here and still holding a tourist visa.  I begrudgingly paid the 10X since I was part of a group.  Afterwords I avoided all National Parks until I got my retirement visa a couple of years later and only after a buddy told me how to get the Thai price, that I described in my previous post.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Jimbo in Thailand
clarity

[Krataiboy]

Bizarre that Asia's biggest bulwark against Communism should be awash with closet Reds enthusiastically  practicing the dogma of "each according to his means" preached by Karl Marx.

 

Is the Boss aware of this heresy?

[snowgard]

3 hours ago, Abilene said:

400 baht might be a good price if the attraction compares favourably with what tourists are used to in their home country.  It would be a good idea for an expat to visit them all and rate them.   I see the Thai rate more as a discount reflecting comparable wages.

???? In europe the most nationalparks are completly FREE. In te US you pay for a day (up to 7 days) visit only 10 US$ / Kids under 16y free.

 

So where it is cheaper? And here are the daily age just 300 Baht.

Can't find garbages so you can find waste everywhere.

Edited February 22, 2017 by snowgard

[Capt Rob]

2 hours ago, denby45 said:

Has everyone lost sight of the fact that Thai's earn, in general, approximately only a tenth of what westerners earn. So tourists in my opinion should stop being Cheap Charlies and visit those wonderful parks. Imagine travelling all the way to Thailand and getting the hump over dual pricing. Cutting nose off to spite face comes to mind. Long term resident foreign pensioners here of course should be treated different and their pricing should be set at a level commensurate with their average income. I know that would be a difficult thing to work out very accurately but you could get at least somewhere near.    

 

Den

I think you are perhaps miss-calculating the 'average wage' - what country are you using to make this assessment ? Malaysia, Philippines, China, Vietnam, S'pore ?

Average Weekly Earnings, Australia, May 2016  $1100 to 1500 per week  is a quoted figure but I am aware of a number of folk who get substantially less than this. High flyers get a lot more but are averaged in.

Additionally, you need to calculate what their ( Oz in this example )  out goings to exist are, eg income tax, medicare levy, transport costs, schooling fees, food costs etc.

 

I am not saying they ( Aust tourists ) do not have a higher living standard for hours worked, but the average person ( what is an average income anyway? ) would not have the equivalent of 10 times a Thai park attendee's income ( I do not see many poorer Thai's at the parks - unless working ) .

I think 3 to 4 times a Thai's entry price would be acceptable for most.  Some retiree's will struggle with this I am sure as they are no longer on an average wage which is high.

 

The underlying fact is that high entry fees are a calculated insult for a large number of foreigners.    Many choose not to be insulted.

 

Recently on TV we have been alerted to the waiving of tourist visa fees. Most countries will charge equivalent visa fee's  (to each other ) so I do not believe they will gain much from this strategy, unless backed up by an advertising campaign, but that is of course debatable.

 

Their are a few parks/waterfalls which do not charge or modestly, maybe a web site detailing scenic deals would be popular.

 

 

[drgoon]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Never had this issue - I simply don't go. All foreigners should do likewise if they want to see 'farang price' stopped.

 

That's what is happening.  The principle is the issue not the value.

 

[hotchilli]

If tourists were made aware that they were being fleeced by paying 10x the Thai entrance price & voted with their feet it would all change inside of a week..

[Gonefortea]

12 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

If tourists were made aware that they were being fleeced by paying 10x the Thai entrance price & voted with their feet it would all change inside of a week..

The average tourist is fleeced back in his own country long before he gets to Thailand. Airfares and hotel accommodation in particular,  by these travel agents and currency converters. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Gonefortea

[Benmart]

Another "black eye" that reveals the facade of Thai tourism.

Facade or Fascade:  :  a false, superficial, or artificial appearance or effect.

[MartinL]

38 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

I don't know what kind of Thais do you know and meet. My neighbor is an electric engineer,50.000bt plus bonus plus overtime per month,his wife accountant 25000 plus bonus plus overtime,my girlfriend works for government,32.000bt plus many benefits,most of my thai friends are 25.000bt up ......... I don't know any foreigner who makes 10 times more than a thai. 

 

...... Last yr I was in yosemite national park,they charged us 30$ for a week pass and per car not per person ...... o believe that claim is even remotely true. Similarly, I don't believe that the vast majority of Thais are so poor they can't afford higher NP entry fees. Sure, some are but most - no!

I tend to read this type of thread from the p.o.v. of somebody who lives in Thailand full-time rather than the effect it might have on tourists on holiday from abroad.

 

On TVF, we're often told that expat teachers here are paid 10x the salary of a Thai teacher. 

 

At my wife's last school before she retired last year - a small Isaan country school - her final salary was 74,000 ฿  p.m. The average salary at that school was about 40,000 ฿ p.m. - I think that'd be a good salary for an expat teacher around here - and the lowest around 22,000. Now she's retired, my wife's pension is 39,000, which isn't much less than mine, thanks to the reduced £-฿ exchange rate. It's certainly more than my ol' mum gets as a UK state pension, although other benefits are added for her there.

 

While some Thais are dirt-poor, so are some in Western countries according to the standards of their country and they could never afford a trip to Thailand or, indeed, many attractions in their own country. Concessions are made for those who are at the bottom of the income ladder and the regular prices reflect the incomes of the average person.

 

Sure, we know people from all walks of life on lower salaries but many still own multiple houses from which they get a rental income, large tracts of land with a farming income, etc. Try achieving all that on a run-of-the-mill salary in UK (my home country) or others.  

 

A teacher friend of my wife has just bought a condo in Khon Kaen for cash so that her daughter can go to uni. there. It's not unusual to hear of others doing the same thing for their kids. 

 

The 'entry-per-vehicle' option is a good one, IMO, and might go some way towards reducing the resentment felt on the subject of differential pricing.

[Cranky]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

The other problem which has come to light is that the fee's disappear! Pii Pii Island being a good example.

 

I arrived at Khao Yai, Korat on a motorbike, with my ex, a Filipino lady, they demanded 800 + the bike fee. There was no way they knew she was not a Thai lady. I am sure there are two books of tickets, the reported and accounted for tickets and "black" income tickets. 

 

At the very least the country should find a way of discounting year long visa expats. Proof you have a marriage, retirement or work visa should allow local prices. But in fact and two tiered prices i feel is wrong.

Some do.  Nong Nooch, Pattaya for example gave me the Thai price on producing a Thai driving license.  As usual this lot have just sold it wrong - simply call it a discount for Thais and residents and away you go.  All they got wrong here is the daft 10x multiple, double and they would get away with it forever, but since when did planning for the future figure in to the equation here? 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, rebelplatoon said:

In a 2003 reply to the UN the permanent seat of Thailand to the UN clearly states that any and ALL kind of discrimination are prohibited by the constitution, it even clearly mentions the parts of the constitution where it says such even when you show up with Thai driver's license AND tax clearance, they refuse to charge normal rates at all national parks. Previously the attitude was that foreigners do not pay taxes, well I DO, so it's based on race only. They should've long been taken to the cleaners over this. The fact that they, themselves say it's in the constitution makes it illegal.

 

Yep. But sadly as we know, "officials" make things up as they go along, usually to suit and benefit themselves. Wonder what the aggressive chief's reaction would be if the Tourism Minister said he cannot charge foreigner's more? Or maybe asked for an audit? Of course all will be above board!

[ianf]

Chiang Mai night Safari: Thais 300 baht; Foreigners 800 baht.

How do they get away with it?

The nasty cheats put the Thai prices in the Thai numerals and the Western in nornal numerals.

Interesting, eh? I don't see them use Thai numerals elsewhere. Bank notes, prices in supermarkets, time tables and cars (etc) all use Western numerals.

That's why it is deliberate cheating.

If anybody from Night Safari or the Zoo in Chiang Mai can answer this point then please do so.

 

[thetruth revealer]

2 hours ago, Harveyboy said:

Yep had some 2 tiered pricing yesterday at Erawan national park.  Thai 100..

Farang ie me and my kids 300 each RICH FARANG.. 

And if the Wife is Thai, who is gonna pay the entry Fee ???? RICH FARANG once again.

Its a bout time to leave !!!

[sandrabbit]

50 minutes ago, brownknees said:

Do the national parks keep a record of how many visitors and how much revenue they bring in?Are books ever auditid?

 

Koh Samet sacked all their national park staff and took in as much money in three months as the whole of the previous year after doing this.

[ianf]

2 minutes ago, thetruth revealer said:

And if the Wife is Thai, who is gonna pay the entry Fee ???? RICH FARANG once again.

Its a bout time to leave !!!

Simply refuse to pay and refuse to go inside. I do that each time I am faced with this issue. Went to night safari with 6 people (friends from the UK). We refused to pay the extortionate price and demanded to see the boss. No boss forthcoming and we didn't go inside the Safari. Can pay won't pay. Only the local price.

[Andrew Dwyer]

I visited a waterfall up north somewhere recently and they wanted 500 baht just for me !, the car and Thais were free !!
I declined their kind offer and went elsewhere.
Whether the waterfall was worth 500 baht or not I will never know, at 200 baht I would have ( grudgingly) paid.

My gf was amazed and posted on Facebook about it.


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