Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Prbkk said:

EG, the INSANE policy on university tuition fees...well, of course it's going to appeal to the young, nothwithstanding the fact that it is unsustainable under the current tax regime ...so eventually taxes would have to rise to pay for it. 

I prefer the Australian model: nothing to be paid upfront but upon graduation and gaining employment , the recipients/beneficiaries pay a marginally higher tax rate until the debt is repaid ( at a rate barely noticeable, like the price of a cappuccino a day). There is still a significant govt subsidy.Not perfect but better than requiring everyone to fund the expensive higher education of others.

 

That sounds like a good system. Fairer than the UK at present for sure.

 

They could always adopt the SNP tactic. No tuition fees but some very high "administration charges"!

[Grouse]

36 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

I disagree, he was far more arrogant than TM.

IMO it was a combination of TM's poor judgement * along with being poorly advised & working within a very close net Westminster team that's also proven to be more negative than positive.

* The author of the Manifesto needs to be sacked, hint TM.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I can assure you there is nothing wrong with arrogance!

[Prbkk]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

She's already claiming this as yet another SNP "victory" ! She was on TV this morning trying to focus everyone on this being the second best ever general election result for the SNP; that the SNP will still have more MP's for Scottish seats than all the other parties together and still have the most voters. She did somewhat reluctantly admit she was a bit disappointed loosing so many seats, and hinted she might have to reflect on her new referendum. But she wants everyone to see this as SNP winning the election in  Scotland. Bless her.

 

She'll never go willingly. Like a bad smell - lingers.

Quite funny to see her on tv describing it as a disaster for May . Bare-faced gall.

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

EG, the INSANE policy on university tuition fees...well, of course it's going to appeal to the young, nothwithstanding the fact that it is unsustainable under the current tax regime ...so eventually taxes would have to rise to pay for it. 

Most students and young people at university age will swing towards the left.  Did in my day too. Later many swing the other way but at a young age we want to change everything and that makes Corbin attractive.

[Baerboxer]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

They haven't, the young people have voted. That's the change!

 

I don't think "young people" voting was the reason alone.

 

The highest turnout for 20 years; people didn't want or expect an election and reacted against May for calling it; May's appalling performance in the campaign, her u-turns, her refusal to debate; the much better than expected campaigning by Corbyn; the Tory focus on Brexit negotiations whilst the electorate were concerned with wider issues; 

 

A lot of seats the Tories won last time reversed. A lot of marginals went Labors way. 

 

I think a lot of voters across the spectrum were pissed at May and the Tory party and showed it,

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

The hysteria is bizarre. The Tories are significantly ahead and only need the smallest of coalition partnerships to get the majority - DUP will do it.

 

Labour gains are surprising though. Has there been any analysis as to whether the swung seats have significant immigrant populations?

Not a healthy majority...

 

That means all the Tory MP's will have to turn up for every critical vote and do as they are told or face a good whipping... 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Prbkk said:

Quite funny to see her on tv describing it as a disaster for May . Bare-faced gall.

 

I spat my coffee when she did that! She used the same logic to say it was a victory for SNP as disaster for May! Obviously no time to rehearse the bullshit!

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

I don't think that Britain has had second thoughts as much as this time people who didn't bother to vote in the referendum have now come out and voted.  If they had done that in the first place then the remainers would have won by quite a margin.  Some of the Brexiteers will have changed their minds now they can see the mistake but many will soldier on regardless.

 

Maybe this is the tide turning and we can all enjoy a sigh of relief if that is the case!

You are correct ... the young Remainers who were castigated for not voting are now doing so ... for a Corbyn that speaks of the issues important to them and who will go for a softer version of Brexit. May asked for a mandate for a hard Brexit ... the electorate is not giving it to her. 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Not a healthy majority...

 

That means all the Tory MP's will have to turn up for every critical vote and do as they are told or face a good whipping... 

 

I think quite a few of them, and their opposition would quite like that!

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

EG, the INSANE policy on university tuition fees...well, of course it's going to appeal to the young, nothwithstanding the fact that it is unsustainable under the current tax regime ...so eventually taxes would have to rise to pay for it. 

I prefer the Australian model: nothing to be paid upfront but upon graduation and gaining employment , the recipients/beneficiaries pay a marginally higher tax rate until the debt is repaid ( at a rate barely noticeable, like the price of a cappuccino a day). There is still a significant govt subsidy.Not perfect but better than requiring everyone to fund the expensive higher education of others.

The rest of the EU have no tuition fees. Why only the English??

[ilostmypassword]

12 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

EG, the INSANE policy on university tuition fees...well, of course it's going to appeal to the young, nothwithstanding the fact that it is unsustainable under the current tax regime ...so eventually taxes would have to rise to pay for it. 

I prefer the Australian model: nothing to be paid upfront but upon graduation and gaining employment , the recipients/beneficiaries pay a marginally higher tax rate until the debt is repaid ( at a rate barely noticeable, like the price of a cappuccino a day). There is still a significant govt subsidy.Not perfect but better than requiring everyone to fund the expensive higher education of others.

Because the last thing a nation needs is lots of highly educated people. Look at the disaster it's been for Germany.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Quite funny to see her on tv describing it as a disaster for May . Bare-faced gall.

It is a disaster for May. For Sturgeon, she still won a majority and the fact that indy2 is off the table is, to some extent, a saving grace as Scots would have said NO again. And if that happened she would be finished. A defeat, but not a disaster for Sturgeon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nontabury]

48 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

My (Thai) wife voted Tory and me Labour in what is a safe Labour seat. It is clear that a clear majority of the British electorate despaired at the hard Brexit suicide mission May seemed embarked on . That stops now - and we start to talk co-operatively with the EU about a mutually beneficial new deal. And as long as it takes - new game , new balls. Get over it Brexmoaners !

Again,that depends on how you interperate the result. I and many others do not agree with you.

 We could of course ask for another (2nd)  election, as maybe,many people din't  realise what they were voting for.

[Prbkk]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Most students and young people at university age will swing towards the left.  Did in my day too. Later many swing the other way but at a young age we want to change everything and that makes Corbin attractive.

Yes, agreed. Corbin is very likeable. However, I would view the election of a Corbin-led govt as a disaster for the UK....a one-way ticket to touchy-freelyness and unbridled spending.ie ...Greece, Italy, we're headed your way.

[Ricardo]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

They haven't, the young people have voted. That's the change!

 

But they've voted for unaffordable freebies for themselves, which they will never actually receive, older voters know about how politicians will always promise the Earth to try to climb the greasy pole, but never then deliver.

 

But the kids don't know any better  ...  yet !

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Ricardo said:

 

But they've voted for unaffordable freebies for themselves, which they will never actually receive, older voters know about how politicians will always promise the Earth to try to climb the greasy pole, but never then deliver.

 

But the kids don't know any better  ...  yet !

Just undo the tax cuts for the wealthy that the Tories instituted. That should help.

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Again,that depends on how you interperate the result. I and many others do not agree with you.

 We could of course ask for another (2nd)  election, as maybe,many people din't  realise what they were voting for.

A second election now would result in a Labour win, so not a good idea.

[Prbkk]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because the last thing a nation needs is lots of highly educated people. Look at the disaster it's been for Germany.

The higher education sector needs to become more relevant and to expand. Sure there must be protection/encouragement/incentives for those of Low socio-economic background...but there no need , or any credible reason, to abandon fees for all. It's lunacy and will result in continuing underfunding.

[Ricardo]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I spat my coffee when she did that! She used the same logic to say it was a victory for SNP as disaster for May! Obviously no time to rehearse the bullshit!

 

 

In much the same way that Jeremy, with 261 MPs, thinks that Theresa with 316 should stand aside, since he obviously has more of a claim to represent the country  ...  not !  

[Grouse]

If May was smart (she isn't) she would agree to a Scottish independence vote now! Just for fun!

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

But they've voted for unaffordable freebies for themselves, which they will never actually receive, older voters know about how politicians will always promise the Earth to try to climb the greasy pole, but never then deliver.

 

But the kids don't know any better  ...  yet !

And the old fogies voted for Brexit based on the lies they were told.  They didn't know any better either.

[Ricardo]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Just undo the tax cuts for the wealthy that the Tories instituted. That should help.

 

But what about the current existing £1-billion-a-week deficit ? !

 

Undoing the tax-cuts for the demonised hate-figure 'filthy-rich' would help, but there still wouldn't be any left for the NHS, the expat-pensioners, the schools, and all of the other people with their hands held out, whom Jeremy was happy to assure he would look after, once elected.

[nontabury]

52 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I am not talking about the BBC although they all use the same analysts.  I am not talking about the turn out numbers themselves although you should compare the general election numbers separately as they are not relevant to the referendum, which was a one off. This election had a turnout of 68.7% up on the 2015 election which was 66.1%.

And I was comparing the turn out at this election against that at the Referendum. Because for the last year many Remoaners have continually stressed that the 2016 result went against them due to the low turn out, of the younger generation.

 Now they're implying that Labours better showing is the result of a higher turn out, while I' m saying it's the result of Mays dreadfull manifesto.Which has resulted in a higher % of the UKIP vote going to Labour. While of course fewer people placed a vote at this election. 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Prbkk said:

The higher education sector needs to become more relevant and to expand. Sure there must be protection/encouragement/incentives for those of Low socio-economic background...but there no need , or any credible reason, to abandon fees for all. It's lunacy and will result in continuing underfunding.

Totally disagree. We have great universities and should encourage education and lifetime learning. Civilised countries pay for this. Why not us?

 

Did you not benefit? Is that it?

 

It was a mistake to make polytechnics universities but this is semantics.

 

I would make entry qualifications higher and apply some control that way (just like Russel Group universities).

 

I note funding cuts have reduced the world rankings of 56 of our best universities.

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

In much the same way that Jeremy, with 261 MPs, thinks that Theresa with 316 should stand aside, since he obviously has more of a claim to represent the country  ...  not !  

You don't fully understand the parliamentary system

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Yes, agreed. Corbin is very likeable. However, I would view the election of a Corbin-led govt as a disaster for the UK....a one-way ticket to touchy-freelyness and unbridled spending.ie ...Greece, Italy, we're headed your way.

I agree.  Corbin's labour party is a nice idea and in an ideal world it would work out fine.  But this is far from an ideal world and it would be an absolute disaster.

[Baerboxer]

15 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because the last thing a nation needs is lots of highly educated people. Look at the disaster it's been for Germany.

 

Yes, like those highly educated German politicians with their plagiarized PhDs!

 

 

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

But what about the current existing £1-billion-a-week deficit ? !

 

Undoing the tax-cuts for the demonised hate-figure 'filthy-rich' would help, but there still wouldn't be any left for the NHS, the expat-pensioners, the schools, and all of the other people with their hands held out, whom Jeremy was happy to assure he would look after, once elected.

Print, borrow, invest, construct, build, negotiate and sell

 

We're not discussing house keeping!

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yes, like those highly educated German politicians with their plagiarized PhDs!

 

 

You have evidence that this is a huge problem there? Like the shoddy quality of their engineering?

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Totally disagree. We have great universities and should encourage education and lifetime learning. Civilised countries pay for this. Why not us?

 

Did you not benefit? Is that it?

 

It was a mistake to make polytechnics universities but this is semantics.

 

I would make entry qualifications higher and apply some control that way (just like Russel Group universities).

 

I note funding cuts have reduced the world rankings of 56 of our best universities.

 

Education should be a right for everyone. Ability should be the limiting factor not wealth, family, social standing or any other category.

 

There are many excellent universities that were previously polytechnics. Look at some of education ranking reports.

 

Hope you're not an Oxbridge snob who looks down on red bricks and former polys.