Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[vogie]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

The rest of the EU have no tuition fees. Why only the English??

I think the answer to your question is that that there are so many students going to university, itwould cost the tax payer too much money. I am no expert on this but it seems going to university these days is pretty much meaningless, now 40% of school leavers are going to universities, I don't believe these people are anything special and may walk away with a worthless degree. In the 1960s only 4% of school leavers went to uni and I believe these students were very special and deserved funding. But what do I know?

[pegman]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

 

At no time did I hear PMTM mention a hard Brexit, much like falling off the cliff was never mentioned.

Too much media drivel & tripe, and stupid talk from anti Brexit and Labour Socialists dinosaurs wanting to take the UK back to the 70's. Also, the Tories didn't crash in Scotland they gave the SNP a bloody nose.

Well done Ruth Davidson.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Well the Brexit crowd seems to want to take the UK back to post war times. Time will tell but I'm saying here it will most definitely be a return to hard times.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, pegman said:

Well the Brexit crowd seems to want to take the UK back to post war times. Time will tell but I'm saying here it will most definitely be a return to hard times.

I think that's an exaggeration. It will hurt growth but the UK will be on the same footing with the EU as most other nations. Geographically it's way too close for trade not to continue. Just somewhat less.

[Grouse]

40 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Then you will be disappointed, as she is staying..

She's probably going to Sarajevo for a holiday....

[vogie]

Worst high five ever?

 

 

[Grouse]

29 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Don't know for sure about other countries, but for sure the Dutch have tuition fees. And I think also the/most other EU countries have fees.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/11371808/British-students-ditch-costly-UK-for-free-education-in-Europe.html

[Thaiwine]

When we had the referendum the choice was to leave or remain not do we want to leave just a little bit, the remoaners invented soft or hard after they lost.

Have you ladies considered that artical 50 has been servered so in two years from last march we leave, rules are if there is no deal agreed we leave, TM does not need to agree to any demands just ride it out for 21 months, bye bye EU.

[nontabury]

31 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

May asked for a mandate for "no deal is better than a bad deal", in other words "hard Brexit". That was totally rejected she has no such mandate. The people who can no longer be ignored are the 48% and those young people who failed to vote in the referendum, but showed up this time. We're heading for soft Brexit ... or perhaps none at all. Corbyn wanted to stay in the single market and customs union, only possible with a compromise on free movement ... some of the 52% voted for Corbyn knowing that. 

Your making an assumption, And I think a wrong one, that the people who did not vote for May,did so due to no longer wanting a Brexit.

She failed to obtain a strong mandate, because she issued a party manifesto,that turned the people off the conservative party. I suspect though,that Remoaners like yourself and the Bureacrats in Brussels,will try and put a completely different spin on it. 

 

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, Thaiwine said:

When we had the referendum the choice was to leave or remain not do we want to leave just a little bit, the remoaners invented soft or hard after they lost.

Have you ladies considered that artical 50 has been servered so in two years from last march we leave, rules are if there is no deal agreed we leave, TM does not need to agree to any demands just ride it out for 21 months, bye bye EU.

 

TM does not have 21 months. TM did not campaign for Leave, but Boris Johnson did ... and he gave assurances that the UK would stay within the single market ... his "have cake and eat it" pledge. So not all people who voted Brexit wanted "no deal". Corbyn has stated that he wants to stay within the customs union and single market, and he received many votes from brexit voters. So the idea that everyone who voted leave wanted a full break from customs union and single market is false. We might technically leave the EU, but the relationship we end up with might well be very close, involve funding and include free movement. And financial commentators in the City are now talking about a referendum on the final deal. So we might end up back in, or indeed never leave. The sands are shifting, and don't think because people voted narrowly for something one year ago that they cannot reject it a couple of years later, when they understand what it means.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

Your making an assumption, And I think a wrong one, that the people who did not vote for May,did so due to no longer wanting a Brexit.

She failed to obtain a strong mandate, because she issued a party manifesto,that turned the people off the conservative party. I suspect though,that Remoaners like yourself and the Bureacrats in Brussels,will try and put a completely different spin on it. 

 

They rejected "hard brexit". Corbyn did not offer that ... he wants to be in the single market, which can only be done with compromising on freedom of movement. The core number of people who want hard brexit are much smaller than you think.

[Thaiwine]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

TM does not have 21 months. TM did not campaign for Leave, but Boris Johnson did ... and he gave assurances that the UK would stay within the single market ... his "have cake and eat it" pledge. So not all people who voted Brexit wanted "no deal". Corbyn has stated that he wants to stay within the customs union and single market, and he received many votes from brexit voters. So the idea that everyone who voted leave wanted a full break from customs union and single market is false. We might technically leave the EU, but the relationship we end up with might well be very close, involve funding and include free movement. And financial commentators in the City are now talking about a referendum on the final deal. So we might end up back in, or indeed never leave. The sands are shifting, and don't think because people voted narrowly for something one year ago that they cannot reject it a couple of years later, when they understand what it means.

the choice was leave or remain, it was said we wanted a trade deal with the EU on agreeable  terms, it was also said we would be better of with no deal than what we have now, which the people understood.

You seem to be missing the point, the leavers don't need to do anything, no second choice just wait and we leave, there is nothing the remoaners can do to stop it, if the govenment chooses to go that way.

[nontabury]

8 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

They rejected "hard brexit". Corbyn did not offer that ... he wants to be in the single market, which can only be done with compromising on freedom of movement. The core number of people who want hard brexit are much smaller than you think.

Voting figures don't agree with you. Compare the vote in the 2015 GE and the figures this week. Even the disasterouse Conservative campaign, lead them to increasing their vote by nearly 2.3 million. While the Labour vote increased by an even  larger figure. All at the expense of UKIP and the SNP. What this shows is that these small parties have been squeezed out, resulting in even further polarization of the electorate. Anyone coming to a conclusion that this is in any way a change of heart regarding Brexit are living in cloud cookoo land.

 Will this lead to a hard or softer Brexit, only time will tell. But one thing I'm sure of, if it leads to the continuing of the open door fiasco, expect a very rough ride.

[AlexRich]

25 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Voting figures don't agree with you. Compare the vote in the 2015 GE and the figures this week. Even the disasterouse Conservative campaign, lead them to increasing their vote by nearly 2.3 million. While the Labour vote increased by an even  larger figure. All at the expense of UKIP and the SNP. What this shows is that these small parties have been squeezed out, resulting in even further polarization of the electorate. Anyone coming to a conclusion that this is in any way a change of heart regarding Brexit are living in cloud cookoo land.

 Will this lead to a hard or softer Brexit, only time will tell. But one thing I'm sure of, if it leads to the continuing of the open door fiasco, expect a very rough ride.

My opinion is that people are more inclined to vote for something that doesn't cause them any pain, but gives them something, like lower immigration, for example. That's what May promised, immigration in the tens of thousands. She lost the vote? This was a disaster for May. Now if that was the most important topic for people she would have won with a landslide. Corbyn could not offer that yet accumulated many more votes than expected. My guess is that it is slowly dawning on people that Brexit may well inflict some pain on them ... triple lock gone and dementia tax ... because post Brexit the economics of the country will be constrained. Now there's pain the subject is no longer core to people ... except a smaller hard core. 

[nontabury]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

My opinion is that people are more inclined to vote for something that doesn't cause them any pain, but gives them something, like lower immigration, for example. That's what May promised, immigration in the tens of thousands. She lost the vote? This was a disaster for May. Now if that was the most important topic for people she would have won with a landslide. Corbyn could not offer that yet accumulated many more votes than expected. My guess is that it is slowly dawning on people that Brexit may well inflict some pain on them ... triple lock gone and dementia tax ... because post Brexit the economics of the country will be constrained. Now there's pain the subject is no longer core to people ... except a smaller hard core. 

Like I said, your living in cloud cooko land.

[AlexRich]

58 minutes ago, Thaiwine said:

the choice was leave or remain, it was said we wanted a trade deal with the EU on agreeable  terms, it was also said we would be better of with no deal than what we have now, which the people understood.

You seem to be missing the point, the leavers don't need to do anything, no second choice just wait and we leave, there is nothing the remoaners can do to stop it, if the govenment chooses to go that way.

The problem is that you are indulging in wishful thinking. You may have wanted a complete severing of ties, whatever the economic consequences. But that's not what politicians like Johnson were advocating. Many people did not vote for no deal. And many of them voted for Corbyn. If people were attracted to no deal May would have won by a landslide.

 

The point that you you are missing is that the Government is in disarray, they have no mandate for what you are proposing and there are too many Tory MPs that will not allow the country to just simply fall over a cliff. You can only do that when you have a very large majority, not when you are a minority government. That option is now dead. Any government that tried to do that would be annihilated in the next election. It simply will not happen. I would not be surprised to see a referendum on the deal. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Like I said, your living in cloud cooko land.

Did you not watch the election? Did you not understand the result? Hard Brexit has been kicked into the long grass ... it's either soft Brexit or no Brexit. David Davis has essentially acknowledged that there is no mandate for hard Brexit. 

[Thaiwine]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The problem is that you are indulging in wishful thinking. You may have wanted a complete severing of ties, whatever the economic consequences. But that's not what politicians like Johnson were advocating. Many people did not vote for no deal. And many of them voted for Corbyn. If people were attracted to no deal May would have won by a landslide.

 

The point that you you are missing is that the Government is in disarray, they have no mandate for what you are proposing and there are too many Tory MPs that will not allow the country to just simply fall over a cliff. You can only do that when you have a very large majority, not when you are a minority government. That option is now dead. Any government that tried to do that would be annihilated in the next election. It simply will not happen. I would not be surprised to see a referendum on the deal. 

 

 

The govenment has the mandate from the referendum, to many tory mp's will stop them? how will they stop them doing nothing? from what I saw Labour avoided brexit and concentrated on issues like NHS, education, housing things that people worry about, where as TM just talked about wanting a mandate for Brexit, the youngsters who cried last time about not voting came out and voted for Labour because he appealed to them, also the ukip voters returned to their loyalty base which is why Labour did well, so I disagree with your spin on the election. past or future.

[citybiker]

Did you not watch the election? Did you not understand the result? Hard Brexit has been kicked into the long grass ... it's either soft Brexit or no Brexit. David Davis has essentially acknowledged that there is no mandate for hard Brexit. 

There's no either about it, Brexit is happening.

Having looked at the DUP policies, it looks interesting. Just a couple of extracts.

No hard border, which was desired by TM & EU anyway.
Corporations tax reduced to 12.5%, which will outrage Corybn.
No special treatment for NI.

Labour's fantasy policies paid by Monopoly money, why?

Current debt 1.7trillion + 250bn of borrowing under Labour including interest, something the younger generation are in denial but gullible to believe free tuition fees have still have to be paid by someone.

26% tax hike would drive out business not attract it, and lastly Labour ruled out any coalition....



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[AlexRich]

31 minutes ago, citybiker said:

There's no either about it, Brexit is happening.

Having looked at the DUP policies, it looks interesting. Just a couple of extracts.

No hard border, which was desired by TM & EU anyway.
Corporations tax reduced to 12.5%, which will outrage Corybn.
No special treatment for NI.

Labour's fantasy policies paid by Monopoly money, why?

Current debt 1.7trillion + 250bn of borrowing under Labour including interest, something the younger generation are in denial but gullible to believe free tuition fees have still have to be paid by someone.

26% tax hike would drive out business not attract it, and lastly Labour ruled out any coalition....



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Yes, some form of change is likely to happen, but it might be minor .... and perhaps so minor that you'll wonder why we bothered in the first place. There is no mandate for "no deal". And our current businesses do not want hard Brexit ... car parts criss cross borders constantly ... if you have to go through customs continually you effectively render that business redundant. DUP leader recognises the business impacts and that is why she is not for hard Brexit ... that option is gone. Robert Peston quotes a senior Tory (unnamed) on May - "we all <deleted> hate her". How long do you think she will last?

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

15 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"No argument from me, as the filet knives will be out for her. The infighting will be awful unless they get a majority."

 

Quite.  May expected an increased majority to stop MPs doing everything possible to stop brexit.

 

She hasn't achieved this and so everything is left 'up in the air'.

That's not the case. The EU have got the scenario sussed already.

Since she will continue it is likely the talks will be more for a hard Brexit without anyone to vote for the soft version (paying billions to stay in the single market and leave the borders open).

The election has backfired on May, but not necessarily on Brexit, and the remoaners might live to regret their vote for Corbyn and Farron.

Stay tuned...

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Your making an assumption, And I think a wrong one, that the people who did not vote for May,did so due to no longer wanting a Brexit.

She failed to obtain a strong mandate, because she issued a party manifesto,that turned the people off the conservative party. I suspect though,that Remoaners like yourself and the Bureacrats in Brussels,will try and put a completely different spin on it. 

 

Yes, and  Labour manifesto was a giveaway vote buyer they knew would bankrupt the UK if (knowing they wouldn't) they got in..

Have a look at the EU reaction. They are more worried than before.

(see above 440)

Edited June 9, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[citybiker]

Yes, some form of change is likely to happen, but it might be minor .... and perhaps so minor that you'll wonder why we bothered in the first place. There is no mandate for "no deal". And our current businesses do not want hard Brexit ... car parts criss cross borders constantly ... if you have to go through customs continually you effectively render that business redundant. DUP leader recognises the business impacts and that is why she is not for hard Brexit ... that option is gone. Robert Peston quotes a senior Tory (unnamed) on May - "we all hate her". How long do you think she will last?

 

 

 

TM has made it clear to 'all' she is seeking the best deal for the UK.

 

Let's simplify this a little, there's an EU trade deficit which the EU want to continue as its individual 27 members have vested domestic interests to ensure the EU obtains a business focused deal. The German business federation has made it clear to Merkel to ensure this happens, the EU does not want to pi$$ off its other paying members.

 

However, TM also made it clear that if the EU even attempt to punish the UK (to deter others leaving basically) then she's quite prepared to walk away.

 

Lastly, I wouldn't class the EU divorce after 40+ yrs as 'minor' the EU were relying on the fact that the British usually vote the safe option 'fearing' change, the EU got so politicalised and interfering that it shot itself in the foot and the majority 17million voters said enough is enough.

 

 

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[Stargeezr]

Oh Dear!  Not the win she was hoping for, well boo hoo, guess May will have to try

live with a minority government now.  Good Luck..

Geezer

[edwinchester]

Now that Teresa May has formed a coalition let's wish the Conservative & Unionist Negotiating Team a successful Brexit....any suggestions for a more catchy name?

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

I think the answer to your question is that that there are so many students going to university, itwould cost the tax payer too much money. I am no expert on this but it seems going to university these days is pretty much meaningless, now 40% of school leavers are going to universities, I don't believe these people are anything special and may walk away with a worthless degree. In the 1960s only 4% of school leavers went to uni and I believe these students were very special and deserved funding. But what do I know?

Yes. I was very special. And today, so many years later, I am even more special.

[brewsterbudgen]

The Tory Remainers will have a lot of influence in this coalition of chaos. The Tories now realise that Labour is electable under Corbyn. Another election is almost inevitable within a year. Interesting times! Also great to see the tabloid press having zero influence any more.

[Orac]

43 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The Tory Remainers will have a lot of influence in this coalition of chaos. The Tories now realise that Labour is electable under Corbyn. Another election is almost inevitable within a year. Interesting times! Also great to see the tabloid press having zero influence any more.

 

I would agree with you, and I would be very surprised if Corbyn did not win a majority when that election happens.

 

With a return to two party politics it will be very difficult for Corbyn to lose any of those that voted for him this time since there is nowhere else now for them to go so it will just be a question of 'getting the vote  out' again but this time with the full support of his party and with the realisation that he is electable.

 

TM on the other hand is caught between a rock and a hard place, unable to change policy significantly especially on Brexit since that would lose her the  support of hardliners including those who moved back from the now defunct UKIP to the conservatives and a party that are appalled at her performance in the election and include a bunch of schemers plotting against her for their own political gain.

 

Even if Corbyn sits back and just lets TM get on with things  the Torys will implode and he is not likely to give her an easy ride and no longer will be able to be dismissed as a crackpot, especially given TMs new paramilitary wing that she has needs to keep her in power who are basically a bunch of religious extremists.

 

I will be an interesting few months now so best to get prepared.

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/11371808/British-students-ditch-costly-UK-for-free-education-in-Europe.html

Which party introduced tuition fees in the UK? It was Labour and Tony Blair in September 1998. It would seem many people seem to forget this fact.

[binjalin]

15 hours ago, Orac said:

 

Such a small majority, when relying on another party to provide some of your votes, will be virtually impossible to manage for any length of time especially with a contentious issue like brexit on the table and a bunch of backstabbers lined up behind you from your own party.

Worth remembering what John Major faced with a similar European issue over the Maastricht Treaty where they had the 'stretcher vote' to try and get it over the line.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40219030

 

unfortunately she won the election and has a majority with DUP who have always supported the Tories unwaveringly and all this false news about Labour 'winning' is... well....false  

[binjalin]

4 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Now that Teresa May has formed a coalition let's wish the Conservative & Unionist Negotiating Team a successful Brexit....any suggestions for a more catchy name?

ConU ?