Patong - The Wake

[LivinginKata]

1 minute ago, NamKangMan said:

So, on that basis, who would "invest" in Phuket now????

 

I would not ... and I have loudly stated that many times here on Thaivisa. The days of the small business has long gone, The big business chains will do very well.

[LivinginKata]

6 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

<snip>

Interesting you have moved your money to "banks outside Thailand."  If you haven't confidence in the local, or National economy, once again, why would anybody else????  

 

 

 

Think you added that since I posted ...

 

We do have confidence in the Thai banking system and still maintain big balances, but there ain't no money to made leaving money in Thai banks. So we have moved money to countries where there is more opportunity in tax free dividend returns. 

[NamKangMan]

3 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

I would not ... and I have loudly stated that many times here on Thaivisa. The days of the small business has long gone, The big business chains will do very well.

 

So, who do you and the missus think will buy your property in the future????  Serious question.

 

As mentioned, if there is a wave of Chinese fools come here and buy up, that's good for me as a renter, and possibly good for you, as a seller.  If there is not a wave of Chinese fools, as we both suspect there will not be, what is the value, theoretical or otherwise, of the property on the market here, and what will become of these properties, long after the owners has moved on from Phuket. 

[NamKangMan]

5 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Think you added that since I posted ...

 

We do have confidence in the Thai banking system and still maintain big balances, but there ain't no money to made leaving money in Thai banks. So we have moved money to countries where there is more opportunity in tax free dividend returns. 

 

So, confidence in Thai banks, but not the Thai economy.  Is this correct? 

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Think you added that since I posted ...

 

We do have confidence in the Thai banking system and still maintain big balances, but there ain't no money to made leaving money in Thai banks. So we have moved money to countries where there is more opportunity in tax free dividend returns. 

Good on you LiK, and a basic tenet of investing is "diversification", so different asset classes, different markets and countries is a wise move.

[xylophone]

On 19/11/2017 at 4:16 PM, KarenBravo said:

With the Chinese, their shouting, spitting, slurping, shoving etc. is all part of their cultural heritage. For them, they are doing nothing wrong. They are just acting normally, as they would at home.

Three Chinese hotels exposed for using toilet brushes to clean cups, basins.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11966921

 

Obviously the type now travelling to Patong!!!

 

[NamKangMan]

14 hours ago, xylophone said:

Good on you LiK, and a basic tenet of investing is "diversification", so different asset classes, different markets and countries is a wise move.

 

Quite correct, XP.  I would also add, "timing" is very important when it comes to investing, particularly in relation to property.

 

[Mysterion]

18 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Nothing in my post was personally directed towards you LIK, but I thank you for volunteering some personal information.

 

Yes, those who bought in cheap in the 80's / 90's have done well, although, those days are well and truly gone, as are many of those expats from that era.

 

I agree with you when you say, "theoretical property value" because it's not cash in the bank until it's sold, and there are thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market on Phuket, and they still continue to build more.

 

If asked, would you do the same, with the same Thai wife, in 2018 - I am sure your answer would be a resounding "no." 

 

So, on that basis, who would "invest" in Phuket now????

 

Interesting you have moved your money to "banks outside Thailand."  If you haven't got confidence in the local, or National economy, once again, why would anybody else????  

 

 

 

 

As an Fyi...

 

For an expat married to a Thai, there are some excellent existing thai freehold houses/villas in decent locations near the west coast that can be bought on the cheap and provide a good annual rental yield, even if only rented out in high season. 

 

For those looking at foreign freehold condos, only fools are buying offplan. Most offplan property is now selling at ridiculous 100k+ Baht/sqm.

 

However, you can still find some excellent high yielding foreign freehold condo deals on completed properties for 40k baht/sqm in west coast locations, if you look for them. Just renting them out in the high season could provide close to a 10% annualized yield. 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

As an Fyi...

 

For an expat married to a Thai, there are some excellent existing thai freehold houses/villas in decent locations near the west coast that can be bought on the cheap and provide a good annual rental yield, even if only rented out in high season. 

 

For those looking at foreign freehold condos, only fools are buying offplan. Most offplan property is now selling at ridiculous 100k+ Baht/sqm.

 

However, you can still find some excellent high yielding foreign freehold condo deals on completed properties for 40k baht/sqm in west coast locations, if you look for them. Just renting them out in the high season could provide close to a 10% annualized yield. 

 

 

 

 

"Just renting them out in the high season could provide close to a 10% annualized yield." - what "high season????"

[LivinginKata]

3 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Just renting them out in the high season could provide close to a 10% annualized yield." - what "high season????"

 

I thought the same when I read that post.  I wonder if the poster is in the property sales business. The so called high season has shrunk to just 2 maybe 3 months. And punters are all looking for good deals.

[LivinginKata]

22 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

So, confidence in Thai banks, but not the Thai economy.  Is this correct? 

 

A usual NKM leading question. Do you as a UK citizen have confidence in the UK economy ? Interest rates there are terrible and taxes high .... I have a lot of money in deposit there making me little to no return.  I keep it there just in case we have to bolt there in the worst of worst possible case. Plus f/x rates make it expensive to convert to other currency.  For me the GBP is just junk money. My pensions are paid in GBP and I just leave it in the UK hoping the rate will improve ... and I dream on.

 

But to answer your question .... what country economy should one have confidence in ?  That's why we have money and investments spread out in a number of countries. Nothing to do with lack of confidence in Thai economy. 

 

 

[LivinginKata]

22 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

So, who do you and the missus think will buy your property in the future????  Serious question.

 

As mentioned, if there is a wave of Chinese fools come here and buy up, that's good for me as a renter, and possibly good for you, as a seller.  If there is not a wave of Chinese fools, as we both suspect there will not be, what is the value, theoretical or otherwise, of the property on the market here, and what will become of these properties, long after the owners has moved on from Phuket. 

 

You know NKM ... I have addressed this so many times here on TV.  I don't care about finding a buyer. My wife does not want to sell and I don't care. We don't need to sell. There are days when a guest complains and I would be happy to throw them all out and shut the doors and go on a world cruise.

 

We have financially done very well ... as in very well.  I well know that the selling boom bubble has long gone.  Did we miss the chance ... maybe not as yearly income has compensated for short term selling profit over the last 5 years.

 

[Mysterion]

59 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

I thought the same when I read that post.  I wonder if the poster is in the property sales business. The so called high season has shrunk to just 2 maybe 3 months. And punters are all looking for good deals.

 

Lol

 

Not sure where you are living, but we are in high season now. Most of the west coast towns are packed with tourists. 

 

In fact, for better or for worse, there is not really a  “low season” anymore, as the chinese are coming all year long in bigger and bigger quantities.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Mysterion

[LivinginKata]

2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Not sure where you are living, but we are in high season now. Most of the west coast towns are packed with tourists. 

 

In fact, for better or for worse, there is really no “low season” anymore, as the chinese are coming all year long in bigger and bigger quantities.

 

 

 

Look at my handle - I live in Kata 12 years now, and before 10 years in Patong. We have rental units in both Patong and Kata. I very well  know the pulse of the holiday rental market.

 

I agree. there is no low season .... and there is a diminishing high season .... it's all now one low budget year round season for visitors on a budget.

 

The Chinese are mostly very low budget charter tours. Yes sure some are 'independent travellers' ... but hardly the high rollers. 

  

[Mysterion]

15 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Look at my handle - I live in Kata 12 years now, and before 10 years in Patong. We have rental units in both Patong and Kata. I very well  know the pulse of the holiday rental market.

 

I agree. there is no low season .... and there is a diminishing high season .... it's all now one low budget year round season for visitors on a budget.

 

The Chinese are mostly very low budget charter tours. Yes sure some are 'independent travellers' ... but hardly the high rollers. 

  

Like i said, if you bought your units for the right price and they are in the right location, you can still make a decent rental yield, even it has fallen from a previous  peak.

 

if you initially overpaid for the units and/or the location is too far from a beach, you may not make much money even during the busy season.

 

 

[madmitch]

According to Booking.com, Patong hotel rooms are 96% reserved over New Year.

 

That's not dead in anyone's language. 

 

Whether Chinese, Russians, North Africans or affluent Europeans, that's a lot of people!

 

I'll check the figure again in a week's time.

 

 

[phuketrichard]

kamala is full on high season,  much busier this time than last year

[Coconut Kidd]

^^^ Agree, this is the busiest year I have seen on awhile.

[schlog]

Yup too busy this year. Where are the Yellows if you need them for a 4 week airport closure lol.

[NamKangMan]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:16 PM, Coconut Kidd said:

^^^ Agree, this is the busiest year I have seen on awhile.

 

 

No doubt it's busy. 

 

Remains to be seen if the big number of tourists corresponds with big profits across the tourism industry.

[LivinginKata]

Yes it's all very busy.  All the private apartments in our neighbourhoods are almost fully booked. Traffic volume is way up.

 

On the other side of the coin I see plenty of small shops, even guest houses,  shuttered up along Nanai and Nanai 2.  Clearly some small businesses did not have a business/money/budget plan.   

Edited December 31, 2017 by LivinginKata

[NamKangMan]

15 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

Yes it's all very busy.  All the private apartments in our neighbourhoods are almost fully booked. Traffic volume is way up.

 

On the other side of the coin I see plenty of small shops, even guest houses,  shuttered up along Nanai and Nanai 2.  Clearly some small businesses did not have a business/money/budget plan.   

 

"Clearly some small businesses did not have a business/money/budget plan." - a bit harsh LIK.

 

What are these owners to do, when halfway through their lease, Phuket falls out of favor with the western tourist market, due to circumstances beyond their control? 

 

No point hanging red lanterns out the front, and signage in Mandarin, and also dropping your room rates to rock bottom, if that doesn't turn a profit.  

 

Better to just walk away, hence, many are shuttered up.

[LivinginKata]

43 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Clearly some small businesses did not have a business/money/budget plan." - a bit harsh LIK.

 

 

A 'bit harsh' .... I speak the straight and plain truth. Not harsh at all ...

[NamKangMan]

6 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

A 'bit harsh' .... I speak the straight and plain truth. Not harsh at all ...

 

Ok, so what should they have done????

[chercheur888]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Ok, so what should they have done????

Follow your expert opinion

[madmax2]

On 12/31/2017 at 8:45 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

"Clearly some small businesses did not have a business/money/budget plan." - a bit harsh LIK.

 

What are these owners to do, when halfway through their lease, Phuket falls out of favor with the western tourist market, due to circumstances beyond their control? 

 

No point hanging red lanterns out the front, and signage in Mandarin, and also dropping your room rates to rock bottom, if that doesn't turn a profit.  

 

Better to just walk away, hence, many are shuttered up.

Forget about catering to the fly in fly out workers who made Phuket their base and have now left Phuket and returned to their home countries to try and find work , also the single male visitor who are a dying breed, you are probably the only one who regularly posts on this forum, there were a lot in the past

Do not be stupid enough to rent a bar on a unregistered 3 year lease and expect people to feel sorry for you when you go broke because you do not have a clue how to buy or operate a business

Work out which people from which countries are now using the facilities and services you can provide and cater to these people, its called business sense, to many amateurs buy into businesses here who do not have a clue how to operate a business and turn a profit

 

As far as asking successful business people how to run a business and make a profit, forget it they are not going to tell you but tell you what you want to hear in your fantasy world, they are successful because they keep the way they run and manage their business to themselves 

If you have never run your own successful business Phuket is not the place especially at present to hope you can buy or open one, and it needs to be something different to the hundreds of exactly the same businesses operating now

Although we could probably do with another motorbike and car rental business in Rawai, but you would need to check it out yourself first before wasting your money 

[sebastion]

Around and round we go. Another year same topic.
NKM needs a hobby outside pontificating his financial prowess for Thailand.
Opinions from people with no skin in the game holds no weight.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[NamKangMan]

On 1/3/2018 at 12:15 PM, sebastion said:

Around and round we go. Another year same topic.
NKM needs a hobby outside pontificating his financial prowess for Thailand.
Opinions from people with no skin in the game holds no weight.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

 

"Opinions from people with no skin in the game holds no weight." - so, only fools who put skin in the game carry some weight.  Really???? 

 

Good to know all those starry eyes bar owners, who went broke, or who are currently going broke, with skin in the game, carry some weight. 

 

Good to know all those property owners who have had their property on the market for years, yes, years, have skin in the game, and carry some weight. 

 

I have said before, ALL expats here have a vested interest in the prosperity of Phuket, as it goes directly to variety, choice, availability, and competition and pricing.  However, we are ALL constantly being undermined by disgraceful mismanagement, criminality, and corruption here.  None more so than people with skin in the game.

 

Thus, in my opinion, ALL expats here have some skin in the game.  It's just the amount of skin that differs. 

 

As a side note, have you noticed that those with the least skin in the game, in general, last the longest here????  Even in my short time, living here full time, I have all ready outlasted many people who put skin in the game. 

 

What credibility do you give to the opinions of these failed "entrepreneurs?"   

 

 

[LivinginKata]

18 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Opinions from people with no skin in the game holds no weight." - so, only fools who put skin in the game carry some weight.  Really???? 

 

Good to know all those starry eyes bar owners, who went broke, or who are currently going broke, with skin in the game, carry some weight. 

 

Good to know all those property owners who have had their property on the market for years, yes, years, have skin in the game, and carry some weight. 

 

I have said before, ALL expats here have a vested interest in the prosperity of Phuket, as it goes directly to variety, choice, availability, and competition and pricing.  However, we are ALL constantly being undermined by disgraceful mismanagement, criminality, and corruption here.  None more so than people with skin in the game.

 

Thus, in my opinion, ALL expats here have some skin in the game.  It's just the amount of skin that differs. 

 

As a side note, have you noticed that those with the least skin in the game, in general, last the longest here????  Even in my short time, living here full time, I have all ready outlasted many people who put skin in the game. 

 

What credibility do you give to the opinions of these failed "entrepreneurs?"   

 

 

 

Complete bilge speak from you. Now you are unhinged NKM. And I speak as someone with a lot of 'skin the game'.  Any watchers of my posts might consider that I speak the truth about what I think is really happening.  

[NamKangMan]

3 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Complete bilge speak from you. Now you are unhinged NKM. And I speak as someone with a lot of 'skin the game'.  Any watchers of my posts might consider that I speak the truth about what I think is really happening.  

 

I have often given you credit for your honesty, LIK, especially as a business owner here.  Also, you freely volunteer personal information about your business, and its current situation, which is real time information, and accurate.  However, it must be noted you put your "skin in the game" in the 80's, from memory, and those times were vastly different from today.  Indeed, the success you have had, I doubt exits for the majority who put skin in the game in the last 5 years or so.   

 

I do, however, remember the recent past when you had a great deal more confidence in the Phuket economy than you current do.  In fact, I find some of your recent posts quite critical of the current situation on Phuket.  Am I mistaken?

 

If not, that change in opinion has occurred over a short time, but what will be your opinion of Phuket in 2 years from no?  Just how much more change will we see in the next two years?  Given the current trend, I doubt it will be positive change.  

 

In my opinion, Phuket has gone too far down a certain path to be able to be turned around.  I can only see a slow, but steady, decline here.  Once again, not in tourist numbers, but in the amount of cash in the local economy from tourists.

 

I am happy to debate this opinion with those who disagree.