Patong - The Wake

[xylophone]

47 minutes ago, Patong2 said:

Judging by the numbers of people wandering in Bangla at night & Jung Ceylon and streets around, this has to be the busiest low season in Patong for a few years.

 

The problem according to some street vendors and shop keepers, customers are looking not spending.

Observed this the other night when strategically placed and looking out over Bangla...……...people walking and looking, and looking and walking and...………...so it was busy with foot traffic, but little in the way of spenders.

 

The usual band venues of New York and Monsoon looked busy and had their fair share of the "younger set" and even a few bars in Sea Dragon had bums on seats (unlike last week) but overall spend according to the owners I know, is down.

 

Tough times.

[xylophone]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Lashay said:

Fully expect a lot of the cheaper all year round bars to face the firing squad this low season as they will not have made enough in high season to carry them though low while the more expensive will be fine.

Or enough from the daytime trade, which at one time was profitable...………..but not now I think.

 

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Lashay said:

Heard a rumor that the Villa restaurant was taking over montes.

Well haven't seen anyone in there and now the shutters are down again?

 

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:53 AM, xylophone said:

Sure enough Nanai was always a favourite for the expats, many longer term, but they have diminished in numbers and long-term stayers, hence the closed shops and shutters, not to mention businesses for sale.

Some don't give up...….where once stood Nanai Sports Bar in its two rebirths, then Amigos, then Satang Eatery and Bar, now stands a burger bar hoping to catch the clientele that others missed?

 

This notwithstanding the fact that the Paris Burger restaurant at the other end of Nanai probably hasn't served one in four months and the Five Burgers restaurant, over the hill and going into Kathu, closed a few months ago, and just about every remaining restaurant in Nanai (except La Moreno) will serve a burger if asked!!

 

Then Backside Bistro, which seemed to be doing well, now advertises food and drink combos at 120 baht or thereabouts(profit margin?) to pull in punters, and where once stood Jampee restaurant (2nd location) now stands a newly opened café...………..

 

Now four guesthouses up for sale/rent, three of them for many months, so not the place it once was and worse to come by the looks of things.

[xylophone]

Patong – – is it a “wake” or a transition?

 

Certainly with the amount of bars that have closed or are near closing, and the bars with very few people in them, one could be mistaken in thinking that it was a wake. However many of those bars are the smaller bars frequented by the “bar mongers” who flocked here in days gone by and who seem to be in short supply these days.

 

Whereas a few of the larger bars and those offering something a little different seem to be doing okay – – New York and Monsoon, along with Hot Chilli have kept their bands and in the main do well, particularly New York, whereas the band at the end of Soi Freedom has now gone, very probably because there were very few punters in the whole soi so what’s the point of having a band if it doesn’t bring in the customers?

 

And as regards customers, that soi is struggling big time in attracting them and I feel very sorry for the people who bought bars near the band, because the last two or three times I have been in the soi they have been empty.

However a little way down Bangla the "soi" which is going to house "Bar Funk" and a few other "things" is coming along slowly...…...so, other sois are not doing well, both Tigers are a shadow of their former selves, yet this is going up??? I wonder if a recently featured "businessman" has got a hand in it, because cash will be needed!

 

A new bar on Bangla called Follies seems to be doing okay because it is a larger bar, bright and airy and has a couple of feature dancers, as well as playing some good music, and no doubt some of the long stayers are making enough to be profitable.

 

Bar wise, the lack of punters seems to be Patong wide, even allowing for the low season and that leads onto the transition aspect, and this has been spoken about by many other posters, because the demographics have changed, not only with regard to those frequenting Bangla, but more of those being Indians/Pakistanis/Middle Eastern etc, (and not spending much) and those with families and of course the plague of Chinese.

 

Not only that, there is going to be a very large Central Plaza just about fronting Bangla and that will be a drawcard for shoppers as well as quite possibly some diners and this will draw customers away from Jungceylon and its shopping and restaurants, but it’s unlikely they will be drawn to Bangla because of its fleshpots, more because of the shopping and vitality of the place and the fact that at the end of the road there is a beach!

 

As has been very obvious, the Chinese are flocking here in even greater numbers and are being their obnoxious, rude and stupid selves, but they are pushing up the turnover in Big C much to the delight of the GM, however with that comes a downside or two…………the staff don’t like them one bit and often give them short shrift because they have been rude to the staff and they try to push through the wrong aisles with trolleys packed to the gunnels with cheap stuff and a new phenomenon has read its ugly head; trying the goods before they buy!

 

The problem being that these are packaged or sealed goods and are not there to be tasted, however a friend of mine has observed the following: – a little crowd of Chinese folk gather around a particular item, and in this case it is a jar of coffee, unscrew the lid, punch a hole in the paper top and stick a licked finger into the coffee to taste it. If they like it they buy another jar and put this one back.

 

Chocolate bars get the same treatment with a couple of squares being snapped off and even before being repackaged and put back on the shelf, and the one which I didn’t believe is the toothpaste! The packages are undone and the lids unscrewed, the small silver cap is pulled back and a fingernail is used to scoop a little bit of toothpaste off to be tasted.

 

So along with the clipping of toenails on restaurant tables, gobbing on the floor of Jungceylon and crapping in the hedge just outside of Starbucks, this new phenomenon has descended upon Patong.

 

Patong can be said to be in transition or going through the change, or even being mourned from its previous self, but from what I’ve seen, it’s certainly not getting any better or attracting a better class of tourist.

But at least one can rest assured that Patong is squeaky clean and has "no mafia"!!!!

 

 

 

 

[Lashay]

57 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Patong – – is it a “wake” or a transition?

Transition for sure, but into what is first question and will it be profitable the next.

 

While I think there will always be a nightlife industry, it's going to get a lot smaller in scope but on flip side, with shorter but more intense high season it will be the bigger places that survive better, more seats means more profit in shorter period.

 

Biggest problem for Bangla and the above is nearly everyone is leasing. In normal market the successful would be expanding by buying out their less/non successful neighbours, but because no one can really buy but rather only some version of rent, expansions like that are not one off investments but rather huge ongoing costs.

 

If on going costs are to large (and basic rents on main street are astonomical) one bad season can wipe even someone with a healthly reserve bank balance.

 

A certain bar/soi owner recently in the news, who is currently on the run from police was reportedly losing 8 figure amounts per month this low season.

 

Soi Freedom dropped band because owner finally accepted whole concept was not working. People, including bar owners there and customers had been telling him for years but he was not listening, until Pink Bar moved from Tiger to the front of Soi and kind of rubbed his face in it. They cut themselves off from soi music straight away and just stocked lots of girls, result? More customers than rest of soi put together, and that was after 3 others bars in 5 years, all with simerlar concept, in same location, failed because they did not properly cut themselves off.

 

Soi is meant to be going back to something like Soi Eric, every bar with dancers so forth, problem is not only is it to little, far to late (5+ years) but really bulk of customers for that concept type are long gone, definitely not enough out there to fill a run down soi.

 

Really the days of small bars down a bangla soi/in a large complex on Bangla are over, only waiting for someone to put them out of their misery.

 

And just wait until Soi Freedom sees how hard and expensive to get girls of the quality to be dancers now with the 'competition' from the clubs. Average Dancer salary in Soi Eric (6-7 years ago) was about 5-6k and drinks commission 30-50b, now Bangla average is 15k to 18k salary and 100b up to full value of lady drink as commission. Yep folks, those constantly increasing prices for lady drinks and barfines that people love to complain about, bulk of increases have gone to the girls just to keep them in the bar instead of freelancing in the clubs, actual profit for bars on those 'products' has not really increased in a decade, actually in many cases the opposite as occurred.

 

Clubs and live music have also reached saturation. Most of smaller live music's have either stopped live music or shutdown, and word is couple of the other larger ones, while they seem to doing ok due to looking busy, are actually not making much due to low spending customers and high costs.

 

Clubs not much different, only Illuzion is doing very well, though bulk of their profit is from the big spending VIP's who are surprisingly mainly people we love to bitch about, French Arabs, Arabs, Indians and Chinese. Seen people like those drop well in excess of 60k per night. The mainly low spending young westeners in center are filler to cover costs.  Hollywood revamp is working lot better but from what seen still not filling out, though if they fix a few issues they might have lot better high season this year. Don't think anyone but Arabs go upstairs Tiger, Seduction (or whatever Arab name it is called now) is same, Shark is empty. Roy/Chalawan is basicly just thais who work Patong. TaiPan is surviving, but it's hay day is long gone (since Illuzion opened) and doubt ever coming back.

 

Outside of Bangla nightlife, low end hotels with no pool are struggling and seem to be appearing every year online for sale by different owner. 3 star and up with pool, in passable locations (ie not Nanai) all seem to be doing well, know a few that spent over 7 months last high season at 100% occupancy, which anyone in industry will tell you is amazing. Bigger and more facilities they have, the better they seem to do.

 

Resturants are mixed bag with no rhyme nor reason dictating success beyond maybe low prices.

[DrDave]

Great posts from xylophone and Lashay, as usual.

 

Just to add a little commentary based upon recent personal experience... returning after having been away for almost a year, most of Patong looked to be struggling even more than this time last year. Most of us thought that 500 baht/night was the bottom of the market the past couple of years, but many Patong guesthouses were appearing on the booking sites for about 300 baht a few weeks ago. These would be typical 2-star types of accommodations, and the very passable guesthouse, with pool and restaurant where we spent some time was briefly listed at 266 baht/night. Considering their personnel and other operating costs, they must be losing boatloads of money.

 

Bangla Road was to me, somewhat depressing. Very disappointed to see that Smiley Bar has eliminated the live band and replaced them with a go-go dancer. Soi Freedom still had a band (although not the same band as earlier), but the katoey show between band sets has pretty much killed Soi Freedom for me, and based upon the lack of customers in all the bars, the entire soi looks to be dying a slow death. What's more, those irritating touts who previously accosted all passers-by on Bangla with signs for "ping pong show", have changed their signs to "f**king show". Very classy.  I was so put-off by the whole experience that a few days later when my wife suggested we head over to Bangla for some drinks after dinner one night, I declined (which would be the first time for me to pass on a night out!).

 

While there's still mention of zero-baht Chinese tour groups, my personal observation is that now there are many more independent Chinese travelers. Both the lower-end guesthouse and higher-end resort where we stayed had mostly independent Chinese guests. Same for the local restaurants - almost all customers being Chinese. In Bangkok, the two major tourist areas of Terminal 21 and Chatuchak market were filled with nearly all Chinese. In the past, these two venues were patronized mostly by local Thais and Western tourists, but Westerners are very few and far between these days in both places.

 

So, obviously the demographics of visitors to Thailand, Phuket and Patong in particular have changed. The bar business economics of 5+ years ago are no longer viable, with rising personnel costs, rents and a declining customer base. It seems that much of Patong's entertainment and hospitality business is built around an older economic model that no longer fits, so some sort of major transformation is inevitable.

[xylophone]

8 hours ago, DrDave said:

Very disappointed to see that Smiley Bar has eliminated the live band and replaced them with a go-go dancer. Soi Freedom still had a band (although not the same band as earlier), but the katoey show between band sets has pretty much killed Soi Freedom for me, and based upon the lack of customers in all the bars, the entire soi looks to be dying a slow death.

Smiley stopped the band and IMO the patronage has fallen off markedly because of this and the Soi Freedom band was stopped a few days ago for reasons that Lashay and DrDave mentioned in their great posts.

 

I do believe that the owner of Soi Freedom could have managed it a lot better, for example:-

 

--Putting a sign up at the soi entrance (which many bar owners asked for) because if you asked the everyday punter where Soi Freedom was, they didn't know...…..absolutely true!

 

--Improving the sound quality of the band. Near the band you couldn't hear yourself speak and after a while ears were ringing, sometimes painfully. He tried to project the sound from one end of the soi to the other so too noisy at one end, just audible at the other (hence Pink becoming more successful using its own music). Again the bar owners suggested change but he wouldn't listen.

 

--Stop using the young DJ (and the other "manager"), who pounded out screeching, awful sounds during the interval and after the band stopped, because no-one liked it. The punters were the older variety and would walk out of the soi when this crap came on. Despite this being VERY visible and despite bar owner feedback that they were losing customers.....nothing done (sound familiar).

 

--The ladyboy shows were a turn-off for most and their popularity was easy to spot when they went round to the few punters who remained, asking for tips, and got none, or the occasional 20 baht!

 

It is/was a litany of mistakes and poor management at a time when numbers were/are dwindling anyway.

 

As Lashay has said, perhaps too late for that soi now, and even if there was hope, the changing demographics make it a hard ask on top of the above.

[billythehat]

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

--Putting a sign up at the soi entrance (which many bar owners asked for) because if you asked the everyday punter where Soi Freedom was, they didn't know...…..absolutely true!

 

Hee hee, exactly. I got asked the same question the last time I was there and replied “Dunno mate, I’ve only been coming here for 18 years. Go and ask one of those old codgers nailed to the bar stools over there…”?

[Peterw42]

 

6 hours ago, xylophone said:

--Putting a sign up at the soi entrance (which many bar owners asked for) because if you asked the everyday punter where Soi Freedom was, they didn't know...…..absolutely true!

Lots of everyday punters still call it soi eric, maybe thats were the problem lies. 

[LivinginKata]

Yesterday talking with a long time Tiger bar owner.  Bar burned out in first Tiger complex fire. Leased a number of bars in Tiger 2. Very fed up with poor support from Tiger management so he let his leases go on expiry for each bar as management not want to reduce big key money each 3 years. Only has one bar left in Tiger and moves out when that lease expires. Tells me he has relocated his bars  in Soi Crocodile. I had thought Crocodile had disappeared years ago. I have not been down Bangla at night these last 15 years.  He tells me his business is way way down even for low season. 

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Tells me he has relocated his bars  in Soi Crocodile. I had thought Crocodile had disappeared years ago.

I think the "new" soi which is going to house Bar Funk bars is it now, as it is where Crocodile used to be.

 

The shells of two bars are now in progress and some other structures are being put in place. Also a club/thingy at the end called Galaxy I think.

[Lashay]

3 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Yesterday talking with a long time Tiger bar owner.  Bar burned out in first Tiger complex fire. Leased a number of bars in Tiger 2. Very fed up with poor support from Tiger management so he let his leases go on expiry for each bar as management not want to reduce big key money each 3 years. Only has one bar left in Tiger and moves out when that lease expires. Tells me he has relocated his bars  in Soi Crocodile. I had thought Crocodile had disappeared years ago. I have not been down Bangla at night these last 15 years.  He tells me his business is way way down even for low season. 

That will be Bar Funk. They have taken whole of old Soi croc and take over virtually dead club at end after new years. Building at front meant to be finished in month or so.

 

Looking at what they are building will be huge, going for what I said before maybe, size to maximise high season.

 

Remaining bars in Tiger 1 will be in trouble when they leave as about one third of it will 'go dark' and they were by far the strongest bar there,  though have noticed they seem way down in clientele this year.

 

But same is true for all bars in both Tigers, regularly see times at night when even bars at front of both with less than half dozen customers, something unheard of before this year. Their future is same as the Soi's...if the shopping malls don't get them first.

[xylophone]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:17 PM, Lashay said:

But same is true for all bars in both Tigers, regularly see times at night when even bars at front of both with less than half dozen customers, something unheard of before this year

As has been said, this experience in both Tigers is replicated throughout many of the other bars, and certainly those in the likes of Soi Freedom, not to mention many in Soi Sea Dragon.................so what of the rumour that one recently opened new and fairly largish bar in Bangla is paying 1 million baht a month in rent (and I think that includes key money)?

 

I'm having trouble getting my head round that, so perhaps other posters could throw some light on what the turnover would have to be on a daily basis (or monthly) to cover that large outgoing PLUS staff, utilities, and other overheads, not to mention the need to put some money away in the bank for future possible "rainy days".

 

Seems unbelievable to me.

[Lashay]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

As has been said, this experience in both Tigers is replicated throughout many of the other bars, and certainly those in the likes of Soi Freedom, not to mention many in Soi Sea Dragon.................so what of the rumour that one recently opened new and fairly largish bar in Bangla is paying 1 million baht a month in rent (and I think that includes key money)?

 

 

Don't think they are paying that much, was one of few places to hit 'open market' (always sign it is overpriced even for Bangla) and 1M was for both buildings (they took only one). That 1M calculation was key money and rent together, bulk as key money.

 

 

[DrDave]

12 hours ago, xylophone said:

As has been said, this experience in both Tigers is replicated throughout many of the other bars, and certainly those in the likes of Soi Freedom, not to mention many in Soi Sea Dragon.................so what of the rumour that one recently opened new and fairly largish bar in Bangla is paying 1 million baht a month in rent (and I think that includes key money)?

 

I'm having trouble getting my head round that, so perhaps other posters could throw some light on what the turnover would have to be on a daily basis (or monthly) to cover that large outgoing PLUS staff, utilities, and other overheads, not to mention the need to put some money away in the bank for future possible "rainy days".

 

Seems unbelievable to me.

Just some simple, off the top of my head arithmetic - assuming a monthly rent/key money payment of 500K and a 100 baht markup on a bottle of beer, the bar would have to...

  -  Sell 170 bottles per day to break even on rent/key money.

  -  Sell 5 or 6 bottles per day, per employee to cover staff salaries.

 -   Sell only about 3 bottles per day to cover utilities.

 -   Sell an unknown number of bottles per day to cover mandatory "contributions" to local officials.

 

Let's assume the bar has 5 staff working at any given time - that would indicate a need to sell 30 bottles per day to cover staff costs. So then, the bar would have to sell somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 bottles of beer per day just to break even. Assuming that the average punter consumes 3 bottles in one sitting (many only having 1, and others many more but I'll assume an overall average of 3) - this implies that the bar needs to have nearly 70 unique customers each day just to break even.

 

Possibly do-able in larger venues like NY Live and Monsoon - but unlikely to be viable in anyplace smaller and without a live band. It seems that the bar owner is carrying all of the financial risk and operational responsibility, while the landlord is taking all the profits.

[Lashay]

3 hours ago, DrDave said:

Just some simple, off the top of my head arithmetic - assuming a monthly rent/key money payment of 500K and a 100 baht markup on a bottle of beer, the bar would have to...

  -  Sell 170 bottles per day to break even on rent/key money.

  -  Sell 5 or 6 bottles per day, per employee to cover staff salaries.

 -   Sell only about 3 bottles per day to cover utilities.

 -   Sell an unknown number of bottles per day to cover mandatory "contributions" to local officials.

 

Let's assume the bar has 5 staff working at any given time - that would indicate a need to sell 30 bottles per day to cover staff costs. So then, the bar would have to sell somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 bottles of beer per day just to break even. Assuming that the average punter consumes 3 bottles in one sitting (many only having 1, and others many more but I'll assume an overall average of 3) - this implies that the bar needs to have nearly 70 unique customers each day just to break even.

 

Possibly do-able in larger venues like NY Live and Monsoon - but unlikely to be viable in anyplace smaller and without a live band. It seems that the bar owner is carrying all of the financial risk and operational responsibility, while the landlord is taking all the profits.

"100 baht markup on a bottle of beer, the bar would have to..."

 

Unless doing the volume of say illuzion average wholesale is 32-34 for thai beer, 40-42 for westeren. Most bars without live music retail is 80 for thai beer and 100 for westeren. That's around 50 to 60 markup up. (Why been saying for ages beer to cheap), out of that has to come at least cooling, nevermind all the rest.

 

Even ignoring the abysmal markups here good reason industry worldwide has the saying "no one ever got rich selling beer". Does not matter what your total bill is, if it is all beer actual profit is tiny for the bar.

 

"Let's assume the bar has 5 staff working at any given time -"

 

Not including girls, bar he is talking about runs at least double that, if not more (basic staff, dj's and western managnent on top). Even smallest bar on main street has total of 8 staff, two shifts of 4. This is one of largest.

 

In short double everything you just estimated, at the least.

[xylophone]

7 hours ago, DrDave said:

It seems that the bar owner is carrying all of the financial risk and operational responsibility, while the landlord is taking all the profits.

Tell me something new!!!!

 

3 hours ago, Lashay said:

In short double everything you just estimated, at the least.

Yes this might be more like it because although Lashay stated that this new bar only took one building, from what I can see it looks like it was around two thirds of the total building??

 

If that is the case, then surely this bar will be struggling sooner rather than later?

[Lashay]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

If that is the case, then surely this bar will be struggling sooner rather than later?

People behind it have the cash to make it to high season and already one of busiest non live music's. Come high season their size will come into play and they will rake the money in

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, Lashay said:

People behind it have the cash to make it to high season and already one of busiest non live music's. Come high season their size will come into play and they will rake the money in

Debateable...…….esp given the new cost estimate you quoted a couple of posts ago!! 

 

Don't want to see it fail, but...……..others have gone the same way, starting off with a hiss and a roar, but size, dwindling day trade, changing demographics and the "self limiting" factor can all come into play.

[DrDave]

9 hours ago, Lashay said:

"100 baht markup on a bottle of beer, the bar would have to..."

 

Unless doing the volume of say illuzion average wholesale is 32-34 for thai beer, 40-42 for westeren. Most bars without live music retail is 80 for thai beer and 100 for westeren. That's around 50 to 60 markup up. (Why been saying for ages beer to cheap), out of that has to come at least cooling, nevermind all the rest.

 

Even ignoring the abysmal markups here good reason industry worldwide has the saying "no one ever got rich selling beer". Does not matter what your total bill is, if it is all beer actual profit is tiny for the bar.

 

"Let's assume the bar has 5 staff working at any given time -"

 

Not including girls, bar he is talking about runs at least double that, if not more (basic staff, dj's and western managnent on top). Even smallest bar on main street has total of 8 staff, two shifts of 4. This is one of largest.

 

In short double everything you just estimated, at the least.

Makes sense if only a 50-60 baht markup.

So then it's closer to 400 bottles/day to break even, maybe a little more depending upon staff and other costs.

That would imply over 130 unique customers needed per day. With really only about 4 hours per day of significant customer opportunity (9pm-1am), there's not a lot of room for many table/stool turns.

Attaining any sort of profits looks to be challenging to say the least if they're selling 80 baht beers.

[Lashay]

5 hours ago, DrDave said:

Makes sense if only a 50-60 baht markup.

So then it's closer to 400 bottles/day to break even, maybe a little more depending upon staff and other costs.

That would imply over 130 unique customers needed per day. With really only about 4 hours per day of significant customer opportunity (9pm-1am), there's not a lot of room for many table/stool turns.

Attaining any sort of profits looks to be challenging to say the least if they're selling 80 baht beers.

If beer was only thing sold, every bar on Bangla would be closed. Beer has worst markup of any product sold in a bar, even soft drinks have better profit.

 

For comparison, spirits, standard 25ml measures, and people normally drink them faster and no cooling costs beyond ice in the drink.

 

Sangsom and coke, average price is 100, Cost is 11, profit of 89 

 

Gordons Gin and tonic, average price is 180. Cost is 30. Profit of 150. 

 

Even higher end like Chivas, cost 38 (same as foreign beers), average price 220. Profit is 182.

 

And don't even get me started on the stupid price of corona and JD coke bottle, at 110 per bottle wholesale that shit should be boycotted by every bar in the country.

 

For comparison, if beer had same markups as say gin, 'correct' prices would be 200 for Chang, 240 for San Miguel and Corona 750!

 

Beer drinkers, here as well as other country's are heavily subsidised by spirit drinkers, without the latter vast majority of bars would not exist.

 

 

[xylophone]

Well, some good news for a change……………..

 

There has been an 11% drop in Chinese visitors over the month of August, and long may it continue.

 

My local Starbucks is becoming unbearable with the noise from the Chinese hordes, plus the fact that they let their kids run around as if it’s a playground (screaming and shouting), and they have no manners at all.

 

Just two days ago I was sitting almost opposite a couple of Chinese guys and one of them decided to cough loudly, straight-ahead (spray et al) and in my direction, so I banged on the table and told him to cover his mouth when he was coughing, but not sure that it did any good as I left shortly afterwards.

 

More good news is the fact that just near me a new restaurant has opened called “Loft” and it appears to be doing fairly good business. It looks like an Italian style restaurant, although it could be something else but just eclectic in its nature?

 

The reverse to this of course is the fact that the burger joint which opened up in the place of another failed establishment, which opened up in the place of another failed establishment which……(you get the idea) hasn’t had any customers in it at any time I have passed by, and that would have to be scores of times.

 

Montes that was, now has a for rent sign hanging up upfront, and the little shop come restaurant come something else near Chang Residence hotel also seems to have shut down.

 

I have visited Bangla Road on three occasions and on two of them most of the bars were sparsely populated and indeed, Soi Freedom was almost empty on one occasion and as I stood halfway down it and looked towards the end, and at the bars which had absolutely no farangs in them whatsoever, I felt very sorry for the girls working there who had that air of desperation/resignation about them.

 

I doubt very much whether their parents or children up north would be receiving much in the way of a monthly “paycheck” the way things are going.

 

I did take a look at the new location of the “Bar Funk” bars to see how the work was coming along and to my surprise, nothing much had happened over the past month to 6 weeks, at least from what I could see. So I’m wondering if there really is as much money behind this “development” as has been suggested??

 

There was one evening when (for whatever reason) there were a few more punters around and even some in Soi Freedom, but many more in Soi Sea Dragon than of late. However that didn’t necessarily relate to more business for the bar girls, and one girl I’ve known for many years and whose bar I and friends stop at to get a drink and also give her a large tip (as well as a drink or two) said that she hadn’t had a customer in three weeks.

 

Just as we were speaking, a couple of young ladyboys, and not that unattractive, disappeared into the short time rooms next door with a couple of Asian punters, just as they had done for weeks previously, so I jokingly suggested she might want to change her modus operandi because these “guys” seemed to be pulling in the punters!

 

September seems to be a traditionally low month and most of the bar owners and other business owners I’ve spoken to were hoping that the coming high season would be better than the last, but there again that has been uttered time and time again over the past few years, and it hasn’t really materialised to any great extent.

 

This, and big changes mooted for Bangla might put more gold in the coffers, but that remains to be seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

17 hours ago, xylophone said:

Well, some good news for a change……………..

 

There has been an 11% drop in Chinese visitors over the month of August, and long may it continue.

 

My local Starbucks is becoming unbearable with the noise from the Chinese hordes, plus the fact that they let their kids run around as if it’s a playground (screaming and shouting), and they have no manners at all.

 

Just two days ago I was sitting almost opposite a couple of Chinese guys and one of them decided to cough loudly, straight-ahead (spray et al) and in my direction, so I banged on the table and told him to cover his mouth when he was coughing, but not sure that it did any good as I left shortly afterwards.

 

More good news is the fact that just near me a new restaurant has opened called “Loft” and it appears to be doing fairly good business. It looks like an Italian style restaurant, although it could be something else but just eclectic in its nature?

 

The reverse to this of course is the fact that the burger joint which opened up in the place of another failed establishment, which opened up in the place of another failed establishment which……(you get the idea) hasn’t had any customers in it at any time I have passed by, and that would have to be scores of times.

 

Montes that was, now has a for rent sign hanging up upfront, and the little shop come restaurant come something else near Chang Residence hotel also seems to have shut down.

 

I have visited Bangla Road on three occasions and on two of them most of the bars were sparsely populated and indeed, Soi Freedom was almost empty on one occasion and as I stood halfway down it and looked towards the end, and at the bars which had absolutely no farangs in them whatsoever, I felt very sorry for the girls working there who had that air of desperation/resignation about them.

 

I doubt very much whether their parents or children up north would be receiving much in the way of a monthly “paycheck” the way things are going.

 

I did take a look at the new location of the “Bar Funk” bars to see how the work was coming along and to my surprise, nothing much had happened over the past month to 6 weeks, at least from what I could see. So I’m wondering if there really is as much money behind this “development” as has been suggested??

 

There was one evening when (for whatever reason) there were a few more punters around and even some in Soi Freedom, but many more in Soi Sea Dragon than of late. However that didn’t necessarily relate to more business for the bar girls, and one girl I’ve known for many years and whose bar I and friends stop at to get a drink and also give her a large tip (as well as a drink or two) said that she hadn’t had a customer in three weeks.

 

Just as we were speaking, a couple of young ladyboys, and not that unattractive, disappeared into the short time rooms next door with a couple of Asian punters, just as they had done for weeks previously, so I jokingly suggested she might want to change her modus operandi because these “guys” seemed to be pulling in the punters!

 

September seems to be a traditionally low month and most of the bar owners and other business owners I’ve spoken to were hoping that the coming high season would be better than the last, but there again that has been uttered time and time again over the past few years, and it hasn’t really materialised to any great extent.

 

This, and big changes mooted for Bangla might put more gold in the coffers, but that remains to be seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"business owners I’ve spoken to were hoping that the coming high season would be better" - I recently spoke to a "legitimate" Thai female friend who works in reception in a medium sized hotel in Patong.

 

She has worked there for several years.  I asked how are coming high season bookings?  She said, "Go down." I asked if they went down a little, or a lot, she said about 40% down.  She has privy to such information, and has no reason to tell me anything but the truth. 

 

Now, that could be simply due to people leaving their bookings to closer to their departure time, or, choosing a new hotel, however, I did ask her about the repeat customers, a few of which I have actually met, and she indicated she has not receive bookings from regulars who usually would have booked by now. 

 

Then there are currency rate issues that may no longer see many afford a holiday either here, or anywhere else, or, they may have simply chosen another destination in Thailand, or another country, for their holiday. 

 

After our conversation, I checked some online reviews about her hotel, and there were many recent and positive reviews, so it appears the standard of the hotel hasn't dropped. 

 

If you have a look at random flights from the traditional farang Phuket markets, there are still many cheap flights available. 

 

If I was a business owner here, I would be bracing myself for a lean high season. 

 

I have said it before, the tradition high season / low season numbers here will be replaced by a steady and constant stream of package holiday makers from emerging economies.

 

Now, of course, we will see a rise in European tourists here, as they escape the cold, but I suggest it will not be that big spike in European numbers Phuket has traditionally experienced, and, with Phuket doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to either lure back the western market, or target the western market, I can only see western tourists, and even expat numbers, dwindle down here in the future.

 

[Lashay]

I would guess the good summer weather most of northen hemisphere had is also having an impact on early bookings. People tend to think about winter holidays early if the summer at home was bad, if not they leave to later, if they take one at all.

[billythehat]

10 hours ago, Lashay said:

I would guess the good summer weather most of northen hemisphere had is also having an impact on early bookings. People tend to think about winter holidays early if the summer at home was bad, if not they leave to later, if they take one at all.

Not in all cases as it’s often cheaper to book in advance due to the outrageous prices asked as the Crimbo high season arrives. I’ve often saved £3-500 by booking mid-year. I know a lass who works for TUI and they operate the only direct service LGW-PHUKET and she told me that the upgraded seats are often sold out by February. A lot of folk think about the Crimbo holiday mainly because they can’t stand Crimbo at home!

[AJBangkok]

On 9/23/2018 at 5:41 PM, xylophone said:

My local Starbucks is becoming unbearable with the noise from the Chinese hordes, plus the fact that they let their kids run around as if it’s a playground (screaming and shouting), and they have no manners at all.

 

Just two days ago I was sitting almost opposite a couple of Chinese guys and one of them decided to cough loudly, straight-ahead (spray et al) and in my direction, so I banged on the table and told him to cover his mouth when he was coughing, but not sure that it did any good as I left shortly afterwards.

So are they actually buying coffee from Starbucks? That’s a new one. At the Starbucks at central festival I could never get a seat as all the outside chairs were taken by Chinese sleeping, eating cup noodles, or doing anything but drinking a coffee purchased from Starbucks and the inside ones were always full with one guy or girl with a Starbucks coffee and 3 or 4 others sitting with them with water, noodles or whatever.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, AJBangkok said:

So are they actually buying coffee from Starbucks? That’s a new one. At the Starbucks at central festival I could never get a seat as all the outside chairs were taken by Chinese sleeping, eating cup noodles, or doing anything but drinking a coffee purchased from Starbucks and the inside ones were always full with one guy or girl with a Starbucks coffee and 3 or 4 others sitting with them with water, noodles or whatever.

Same experience that I've had with them and I've "trained" one of the staff to look for tables where the Chinese are seated and have not bought anything, then go over and present them with a menu.

 

That certainly stirs things up a little!!!

 

Might have to try the Coffee Club and see if they will give me a tea in a large mug as the "fairy cups" they use just cannot compare to a large mug of steaming tea (and one of their caramel tarts)!!

[xylophone]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 5:16 PM, AJBangkok said:

At the Starbucks at central festival I could never get a seat as all the outside chairs were taken by Chinese sleeping, eating cup noodles, or doing anything but drinking a coffee purchased from Starbucks

It's got to be something in the water or in their genes!!

 

Everywhere I go I see them sleeping and we both mentioned Starbucks and in another post I commented on how they were managing to find places to sleep in the new Phuket Central complex, but the latest one is interesting.........….

 

In an area inside Jungceylon there is a "Investment and Property fair", laid out with little information booths from the developers and with a small stage, in front of which would be about 40 chairs ready to receive the audience if they ever arrive.

 

I haven't seen anybody sitting in any of the chairs for the few days I have been through the place, apart from a couple of Chinese folk who decided that it would be a good place to dump their shopping bags and have a snooze!!!

 

I don't think anybody bothered to move them on as they probably thought it looked as if someone was interested in what they were offering, however the whole show proved to be about as popular as a free trip to a leper colony.

[sebastion]

The reasons the Chinese tourists sleep around the shopping centres is that the tour company dumps them there for a few days out of their package deal.
They are stuck until 5pm pick up.

So they hang out all day picking at cheap food and taking a nap.

You even see this when they are departing at the airport.
They might be flying in the evening but get dumped at the airport at 9am.

This is the reality of zero baht tours.

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[xylophone]

3 hours ago, sebastion said:

The reasons the Chinese tourists sleep around the shopping centres is that the tour company dumps them there for a few days out of their package deal.
They are stuck until 5pm pick up.

So they hang out all day picking at cheap food and taking a nap.

You even see this when they are departing at the airport.
They might be flying in the evening but get dumped at the airport at 9am.

This is the reality of zero baht tours.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk
 

Quality tourists then!!!!!

[sebastion]

Quality tourists then!!!!!

That's the business.
8 hours to kill with little or no money to spend.

Tour operators love it as it costs them only a bus for the day and they get paid to bring their horde there.





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