Ford fiesta AT problem question

[transam]

19 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I'm curious to what a fairy is, and how does it/he/she actually drive.

Remember the days when a bloke with a tool kit could fix stuff even on Fords top ride in the UK.

No computers running anything, independent suspension, smooth auto box and as quiet as a mouse..I had two, Ford Granada 3.0 V6 autos, first one had 250,000 miles on the clock..Probably one of the best cars I owned..

 

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Remember the days when a bloke with a tool kit could fix stuff even on Fords top ride in the UK.

No computers running anything, independent suspension, smooth auto box and as quiet as a mouse..I had two, Ford Granada 3.0 V6 autos, first one had 250,000 miles on the clock..Probably one of the best cars I owned..

 

Yes, I remember, but still doesn't answer my question.

[transam]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Yes, I remember, but still doesn't answer my question.

Well the "fairy" driver thing is nonsense regarding a daily driver, as a complete cross section of society should be able to drive a ride as they wish..

[VocalNeal]

39 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I'm curious to what a fairy is, and how does it/he/she actually drive.

I believe what Jass means is that it has to be driven with gusto and not pussyfooted around. 

 

If Powershift, Nobody has mentioned yet that it is not an automatic transmission? It is an automated manual. It will not drive with wooly take off and wooly gear shifts.

So say in traffic it maybe best to leave it in manual and change from first to second etc manually. I believe it will change back down to first when stopped and start in first but will remain in fist until second is selected.

[giddyup]

I believe what Jass means is that it has to be driven with gusto and not pussyfooted around. 

 

Do they make that clear in the brochures?

[transam]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

I believe what Jass means is that it has to be driven with gusto and not pussyfooted around. 

 

Do they make that clear in the brochures?

Be interesting to know what the handbook says...

For instance, my 4x4 handbook says I should engage 4x4 at least once a month to keep the gubbins lubricated...But, I cannot believe granny being told to gun her weee ride to stop the box failing...

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, transam said:

Be interesting to know what the handbook says...

For instance, my 4x4 handbook says I should engage 4x4 at least once a month to keep the gubbins lubricated...But, I cannot believe granny being told to gun her weee ride to stop the box failing...

It says, drive this car like a 17 year old meth addict.

[VocalNeal]

51 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I believe what Jass means is that it has to be driven with gusto and not pussyfooted around. 

 

Do they make that clear in the brochures?

No. This is most of the problem. The sales people sold it as an automatic, which it is not.  IF it is Powershift. 

 

It is trying to be as frugal as possible so in slow traffic may change to a higher gear if speed and throttle demand allows. Then when the traffic speeds up a bit and driver puts foot down it will change down abruptly and accelerate. If the driver then relaxes the throttle again it will revert to the higher gear so will, or may hunt, between two gears under certain traffic and driver related conditions. It also changes gear in milliseconds and does not have that torque converter (conventional automatic slushy/woolly) feel to the changes that people who drive automatics have become used to.

In slow traffic best to leave in manual to stop it shifting up too much, as it will only shift up if told to do so.

 

Also it has engine braking which people used to conventional automatics are not accustomed to. So they maybe on/off the throttle like they used to do which will make it buck like a Kangaroo or act like a manual box which is left in gear and the driver does not feather the throttle.

[Gary A]

Stories like this remind me why I prefer a manual transmission. Maybe we were lucky with the wife's old Ford Focus. It never had any transmission problems. I hope her new EcoSport holds up as well. So far it has surprised me. The shifts are so smooth that you cannot feel them. The only way you know that it changed gears is the tachometer and the sound of the little engine. I went up on a nearby mountain this week. I meet a friend up there every couple of weeks for a meal. Going up and keeping at about 75 kph I noticed the engine was turning a bit more than 4,000 rpm. It's a pretty steep grade.  Next time, I'll try the "S" mode. I assume that means sports mode. It has a plus and minus button on the side of the shift lever. I didn't think about it because the car was doing OK by itself. It may be useful going back down the mountain. I use the engine braking with the manual transmission in my truck.

[Goldieinkathu]

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I believe what Jass means is that it has to be driven with gusto and not pussyfooted around. 

 

If Powershift, Nobody has mentioned yet that it is not an automatic transmission? It is an automated manual. It will not drive with wooly take off and wooly gear shifts.

So say in traffic it maybe best to leave it in manual and change from first to second etc manually. I believe it will change back down to first when stopped and start in first but will remain in fist until second is selected.

Now you've lost me completely

There is no "manual" in this car.

It is an automatic transmission as far as I know but it's a faulty design, hence all the problems with this model around the world.

There is no "wooly" or "fairy" in this car

This problem has NOTHING to do with the driver, wooly, fairy, or Thai

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, Goldieinkathu said:

Now you've lost me completely

There is no "manual" in this car.

It is an automatic transmission as far as I know but it's a faulty design, hence all the problems with this model around the world.

There is no "wooly" or "fairy" in this car

This problem has NOTHING to do with the driver, wooly, fairy, or Thai

I think maybe your understanding may not be quite correct ... below is a quick and easy explanation ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_PowerShift_transmission  and many others also on the internet.

 

Driving in manual select in slow traffic may be an answer

[Goldieinkathu]

3 hours ago, JAS21 said:

I think maybe your understanding may not be quite correct ... below is a quick and easy explanation ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_PowerShift_transmission  and many others also on the internet.

 

Driving in manual select in slow traffic may be an answer

Where is the manual select switch?

[Goldieinkathu]

Our car is a fully automatic car, I don't know what you're talking about.

The link you supplied explains it nicely , as I understood it. But the problem is between 2nd and 3rd gear ( if it was manual) If I'm driving in very slow traffic I put the car in "L" and there is no problem.

At times it just doesn't connect, believe me, it's not good when you're overtaking and the bloody thing just won't kick in.

 

[Gary A]

4 hours ago, Goldieinkathu said:

Where is the manual select switch?

 

I can only tell you about the 2017 EcoSport. below the "D" selection, there is one marked "S". On the side of the shift selector there are two buttons, one marked Plus + and the other marked Minus -. I have never used it. I can understand your confusion. In the "D" selection. it is totally automatic.

[VocalNeal]

You should have two modes. D and L.

D is economy biased and keeps the transmission in the highest  gear and changes up at low revs, say, less than 2, 000 and downshifts are slower so not like "kickdown" for passing and aparently it feathers the clutch to make it smoother so has a rubber feel. 

L chooses the lowest gear for the engine speed and will only change up at high revs around 6,000.  So it stays in lower gear and will sound noisy. Shifts in L are  quick and can be jerky.

 

So if you are in D and you want to pass like a "kickdown" or you want the transmission in a lower gear you select L before you make the maneuver. Engine will change to the lowest gear and past you go. Then you can change back to D when past. If you want to pass slowly on the highway I guess you can leave it in D. L is not really good for relaxed driving in traffic as the revs will be high.

 

Does this sound like yours? It has a hill descent button on the shifter. 

 

It is still an automated 6 speed dual clutch transmission. So while yes it may not seem like it has a fully manual mode it does have a form of manual intervention but likewise while it will shift automatically in D it is not like a conventional automatic . 

 

How does it tell you to drive in the owners manual.

 

I have never driven one but maybe the car has to be driven as opposed to letting it drive you. Can't comment on the amount of clutches you have gone through. I have a mate with a blue one next time I see him I will ask.

 

[Goldieinkathu]

11 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

You should have two modes. D and L.

D is economy biased and keeps the transmission in the highest  gear and changes up at low revs, say, less than 2, 000 and downshifts are slower so not like "kickdown" for passing and aparently it feathers the clutch to make it smoother so has a rubber feel. 

L chooses the lowest gear for the engine speed and will only change up at high revs around 6,000.  So it stays in lower gear and will sound noisy. Shifts in L are  quick and can be jerky.

 

So if you are in D and you want to pass like a "kickdown" or you want the transmission in a lower gear you select L before you make the maneuver. Engine will change to the lowest gear and past you go. Then you can change back to D when past. If you want to pass slowly on the highway I guess you can leave it in D. L is not really good for relaxed driving in traffic as the revs will be high.

 

Does this sound like yours? It has a hill descent button on the shifter. 

 

It is still an automated 6 speed dual clutch transmission. So while yes it may not seem like it has a fully manual mode it does have a form of manual intervention but likewise while it will shift automatically in D it is not like a conventional automatic . 

 

I have never driven one but maybe the car has to be driven as opposed to letting it drive you. Can't comment on the amount of clutches you have gone through. I have a mate with a blue one next time I see him I will ask.

 

Well, I live and learn , thanks for that info. If we ever get the car back I'll give it a go.

Yes, it has a hill descent button ( that was another thing that fell off, they had to replace the whole gear stick for that one )

But that doesn't explain all the problems. I see from the Wikipedia info that 200 Fiesta's have already been bought back in Thailand. And there are many law suits in Australia too so there IS a problem.

I actually hate automatic cars, this was bought for my partner, if it were possible to get the sports model in a manual here like the one in the UK I would have much preferred it.Having said that I guess stuff would still have fallen off every five minutes

 

[Familyonthemove]

13 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

No. This is most of the problem. The sales people sold it as an automatic, which it is not.  IF it is Powershift. 

 

It is trying to be as frugal as possible so in slow traffic may change to a higher gear if speed and throttle demand allows. Then when the traffic speeds up a bit and driver puts foot down it will change down abruptly and accelerate. If the driver then relaxes the throttle again it will revert to the higher gear so will, or may hunt, between two gears under certain traffic and driver related conditions. It also changes gear in milliseconds and does not have that torque converter (conventional automatic slushy/woolly) feel to the changes that people who drive automatics have become used to.

In slow traffic best to leave in manual to stop it shifting up too much, as it will only shift up if told to do so.

 

Also it has engine braking which people used to conventional automatics are not accustomed to. So they maybe on/off the throttle like they used to do which will make it buck like a Kangaroo or act like a manual box which is left in gear and the driver does not feather the throttle.

If you've driven a manual,  you'll appreciate the Fiesta dual clutch system (assuming it's been properly updated and maintained).  If you're used to elastic band autos or fluid drives, it can feel odd.  No problems with the office Fiesta S over the last 3 years of hard use.

[Goldieinkathu]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:46 PM, Familyonthemove said:

If you've driven a manual,  you'll appreciate the Fiesta dual clutch system (assuming it's been properly updated and maintained).  If you're used to elastic band autos or fluid drives, it can feel odd.  No problems with the office Fiesta S over the last 3 years of hard use.

"properly updated and maintained"

 

[Familyonthemove]

6 hours ago, Goldieinkathu said:

"properly updated and maintained"

 

Yep, the Ford dealer we use in Nontaburi has done a good job over the last 3 years.  

[JAS21]

6 hours ago, Familyonthemove said:

Yep, the Ford dealer we use in Nontaburi has done a good job over the last 3 years.  

Is that the one on Chaengwattana ... where the english speaking italian guy who is their Product Specialist and is called Angelo works ...  By what I read here and from my limited experience with another Ford dealerships they are somewhat above the norm ...

[Familyonthemove]

3 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Is that the one on Chaengwattana ... where the english speaking italian guy who is their Product Specialist and is called Angelo works ...  By what I read here and from my limited experience with another Ford dealerships they are somewhat above the norm ...

Yes, that's the one.  I don't have any experience of any others, as we've always used this one since the car was new.

 

I've never had an issue with the gearchange myself, and I prefer it to Honda or Toyota,  but a couple of others in the office didn't like the shifts at low speed, so the dealer updated the software at the first service,  then replaced something on the second,  but I didn't notice any difference, as it always felt ok to me. But I'm used to driving manual boxes, whereas nobody in the office has ever driven a manual car.

[VocalNeal]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:35 PM, Goldieinkathu said:

Well, I live and learn , thanks for that info. If we ever get the car back I'll give it a go.

Just curious about the latest situation.

[Goldieinkathu]

20 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Just curious about the latest situation.

I've tried your suggestion and yes it works although the noise is a bit like a jet plane taking off til it finds the right gear.

So far the gear change is smooth but occasionally it makes a noise like in the past but not as bad as the others. BUT the second clutch was good for 2 months and then the problems started so it's early days , we shall see. I live in fear that the gear stick might just come off in my hand while I'm doing the switch from D to L so I tend to stick to D

The nut covers on the wheels are still dropping off though and our case with consumer protection for all the problems  is still going ahead.

 

 

 

[MatteoBassini]

Have only read the OP but, I've owned a 2013 Ford Fiesta for about 8 months now (11,000 km), here's what I think.

 

The only cars I've ever driven is a Golf and Ford Ranger both manual transmissions, my own Ford Fiesta right now is the only automatic I've driven and it is a dual-clutch transmission.

 

Unsurprisingly, DCT is jerky in slow speeds, it is supposed to be. Unless my car's DCT unit is actually normal, but I wouldn't know that unless someone here who thinks their Fiesta is "broken" lets me drive it for a day.

 

Controlling the clutch at very slow speeds or moving from a standstill is one of the few things left that humans are much better at doing than computers, and you can feel it in the Fiesta. Like in a manual transmission car in a traffic jam, either you let the car coast while holding in the clutch or you have go a certain speed when the car doesn't stall anymore after letting go of the clutch.

 

To prevent the car from constantly engaging and disengaging the clutch and causing more wear, the Fiesta is always shifting from 1st to Neutral in slow speeds, when the driver applies throttle while the car is doing this, it causes a very strong jerk, because the car has to immediately shift gears and accelerate.

 

You should not coast at slow speeds like you would in a manual or regular auto, because this is where the Fiesta struggle to disengage and engage to clutch to not make it stall or keeps shifting from 1st to neutral back and forth.

 

The Fiesta doesn't have a transmission problem, it's just that people don't understand what DCT is, so they assume it's broken, when it's actually not. And the ignorance even goes on with Fiestas that are MANUALS. You can buy a 2011-2013 Ford Fiesta manual for around 100,000 baht just because the dual-clutch one is disliked by people.

[Ace of Pop]

16 hours ago, MatteoBassini said:

Have only read the OP but, I've owned a 2013 Ford Fiesta for about 8 months now (11,000 km), here's what I think.

 

The only cars I've ever driven is a Golf and Ford Ranger both manual transmissions, my own Ford Fiesta right now is the only automatic I've driven and it is a dual-clutch transmission.

 

Unsurprisingly, DCT is jerky in slow speeds, it is supposed to be. Unless my car's DCT unit is actually normal, but I wouldn't know that unless someone here who thinks their Fiesta is "broken" lets me drive it for a day.

 

Controlling the clutch at very slow speeds or moving from a standstill is one of the few things left that humans are much better at doing than computers, and you can feel it in the Fiesta. Like in a manual transmission car in a traffic jam, either you let the car coast while holding in the clutch or you have go a certain speed when the car doesn't stall anymore after letting go of the clutch.

 

To prevent the car from constantly engaging and disengaging the clutch and causing more wear, the Fiesta is always shifting from 1st to Neutral in slow speeds, when the driver applies throttle while the car is doing this, it causes a very strong jerk, because the car has to immediately shift gears and accelerate.

 

You should not coast at slow speeds like you would in a manual or regular auto, because this is where the Fiesta struggle to disengage and engage to clutch to not make it stall or keeps shifting from 1st to neutral back and forth.

 

The Fiesta doesn't have a transmission problem, it's just that people don't understand what DCT is, so they assume it's broken, when it's actually not. And the ignorance even goes on with Fiestas that are MANUALS. You can buy a 2011-2013 Ford Fiesta manual for around 100,000 baht just because the dual-clutch one is disliked by people.

Good Fiesta overview, but not all dual clutch autos hop around the world.

[stevenl]

17 hours ago, MatteoBassini said:

Have only read the OP but, I've owned a 2013 Ford Fiesta for about 8 months now (11,000 km), here's what I think.

 

The only cars I've ever driven is a Golf and Ford Ranger both manual transmissions, my own Ford Fiesta right now is the only automatic I've driven and it is a dual-clutch transmission.

 

Unsurprisingly, DCT is jerky in slow speeds, it is supposed to be. Unless my car's DCT unit is actually normal, but I wouldn't know that unless someone here who thinks their Fiesta is "broken" lets me drive it for a day.

 

Controlling the clutch at very slow speeds or moving from a standstill is one of the few things left that humans are much better at doing than computers, and you can feel it in the Fiesta. Like in a manual transmission car in a traffic jam, either you let the car coast while holding in the clutch or you have go a certain speed when the car doesn't stall anymore after letting go of the clutch.

 

To prevent the car from constantly engaging and disengaging the clutch and causing more wear, the Fiesta is always shifting from 1st to Neutral in slow speeds, when the driver applies throttle while the car is doing this, it causes a very strong jerk, because the car has to immediately shift gears and accelerate.

 

You should not coast at slow speeds like you would in a manual or regular auto, because this is where the Fiesta struggle to disengage and engage to clutch to not make it stall or keeps shifting from 1st to neutral back and forth.

 

The Fiesta doesn't have a transmission problem, it's just that people don't understand what DCT is, so they assume it's broken, when it's actually not. And the ignorance even goes on with Fiestas that are MANUALS. You can buy a 2011-2013 Ford Fiesta manual for around 100,000 baht just because the dual-clutch one is disliked by people.

Good to see that in contrast to many, many others you understand how DCT works, even though you have only ever driven a Golf and Ranger with a manual transmission.

[Goldieinkathu]

 

 

"The Fiesta doesn't have a transmission problem"

 

Right then, so Ford have spent all that money on replacing 4 clutches in 6 years when there's been no problem , when really they should have just explained to me how to drive a Fiesta?

The ten year extended warranty on the "transmission problem" is for what exactly?

I must tell that the the judges who will be dealing with the many law suits against Ford around the world 

To my knowledge there has never been a problem with manual Fiesta's so there is no reason for them to be so cheap but that's the price that Ford will pay, they will have lost a lot of customers over this issue ignorant or not.

[Familyonthemove]

Five years now for the office Fiesta, same clutch, only one issue that needed a non scheduled trip to the dealer (doors locked themselves with the key inside....  oops!).  One new battery and new tyres are the only costs.

 

Interesting to note that drivers who've driven a manual car (usually experience of base model trucks) and people who've only driven the office Ford, think it's a good car, but people who've only driven traditional or elastic band autos, think it's clunky at low speeds.

 

It's due for replacement now, and the only reason we'll probably not get another Ford is the low resale value compared to Toyota and Honda, so the cost to change is significantly higher than if we'd bought a more common make originally. 

 

For this reason the Fiesta probably makes a good used buy.

 

 

[JaseTheBass]

Good Fiesta overview, but not all dual clutch autos hop around the world.

Only 'nearly all'.

Sent from my R2D2 droid using my C3P0 manservant

[ThaiBob]

A friend has lost two prospective buyers for his Ford Focus because of the AT transmission issue. Two tents had no interest in purchasing. He bought a new Honda CRV but the offer for a tradein was absurdly low.