Carpetright performance has long proven to be a reliable bellwether of the UK economy, simply, if it's doing well it means people are spending money on their homes and that's a solid indicator of confidence in the performance of the economy.

 

Carpetright has just announced they will close 92 stores.https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/carpetright-store-closures-retailer-to-shut-92-shops-as-hundreds-of-jobs-go-a3812026.html

 

Just now, simoh1490 said:

The wrong question was asked, the margin is far too small for it to be a successful vote, what's inconsistent about that simple observation!

The question was what it was and it satisfied the needs of at least 52% of voters. You seem to feel the result was too close to be authoritative and as a result status quo. I believe status quo would give victory to the minority Remainers. My question was, is this your definition of democracy? A simple yes or no will do. 

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I agree the negotiation has been a bit pathetic from the UK side.  But I think once we're officially out we'll be in a position to tweak the terms over the coming years and get to where we want to be. 

The negotiation has been non-existent from our side!

 

May put the Brexit process on autopilot. One gets the sense that this government is no longer even trying to negotiate and has simply rolled over at every turn.

 

This is a consequence of not having a plan - making no preparations and failing to understand the inherent dilemmas of the Brexit process. This will not be the Brexit that anybody wanted and will deliver nothing that was promised. But then this is also a consequence of Brexit having been managed as an administrative chore - one which easily bores our media, is not wanted by the government and is understood by neither.

 

Maybe we needed some of those experts after all....

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

For something to be democratic in more than name only the result needs to be 80/20 or 90/10, then the result will have the support of the people and it will be successful, as things stand this will fail one way or the other, sooner or later.

On that basis the result in 1975 to remain in the EC should not have stood. Not to mention the fact the EC evolved into something that doesn't resemble what the UK people voted to remain a part of.

Just now, aright said:

The question was what it was and it satisfied the needs of at least 52% of voters. You seem to feel the result was too close to be authoritative and as a result status quo. I believe status quo would give victory to the minority Remainers. My question was, is this your definition of democracy? A simple yes or no will do. 

Whereas I believe the sensible option would have been to recognise the lack of a majority and to nullify the vote, given the magnitude of the decision at hand. This is not about victory or not, this is about the best thing for the country and you give away a lot by talking in those terms, this is not intended to be competitive, in my mind at least. Supporting a numerical victory by a slim margin does not mean the solution is capable of being implemented, there's a theoretical and practical aspect to democracy which your need for a black and white answer can't meet in this case.

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

On that basis the result in 1975 to remain in the EC should not have stood. Not to mention the fact the EC evolved into something that doesn't resemble what the UK people voted to remain a part of.

Maybe so.

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Carpetright performance has long proven to be a reliable bellwether of the UK economy, simply, if it's doing well it means people are spending money on their homes and that's a solid indicator of confidence in the performance of the economy.

 

Carpetright has just announced they will close 92 stores.https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/carpetright-store-closures-retailer-to-shut-92-shops-as-hundreds-of-jobs-go-a3812026.html

 

Could it be the trendy populous now want wood flooring...?..

11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

On that basis the result in 1975 to remain in the EC should not have stood. Not to mention the fact the EC evolved into something that doesn't resemble what the UK people voted to remain a part of.

We voted for a common market not an autocratic political behemoth.  The chaos we witnessed was in Sangate and other chaotic illegal gatherings where illegal immigrants tried to riot their way into the UK. The chaos has been the mass displacement of the indigenous population in many UK cities. The chaos was in Germany on NYE when hundreds of women were assaulted. The chaos was in Greece with its economy in tatters. Let all EU member states have a referendum like the British did. 

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/pulse-of-europe-an-elitist-campaign/21294#.Ws80gMsRUwA

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

Whereas I believe the sensible option would have been to recognise the lack of a majority and to nullify the vote, given the magnitude of the decision at hand. This is not about victory or not, this is about the best thing for the country and you give away a lot by talking in those terms, this is not intended to be competitive, in my mind at least. Supporting a numerical victory by a slim margin does not mean the solution is capable of being implemented, there's a theoretical and practical aspect to democracy which your need for a black and white answer can't meet in this case.

Can you explain to me what the theoretical and practical aspect to democracy is. My dictionary definition fails to mention it.

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Could it be the trendy populous now want wood flooring...?..

CR does wood flooring too.

Just now, aright said:

Can you explain to me what the theoretical and practical aspect to democracy is. My dictionary definition fails to mention it.

It's all well and good having a 2% advantage in a vote but it's useless if as a result it's not possible to implement the end product, in that case, the theoretical advantage of democracy is overridden by the practical aspects. Had the vote been 50.1% versus 49.9%, what would be have done, we would have changed the question and revoted that's what. You and others seem to have this idea that democracy is a black and white thing based solely on numerical supremacy, I don't believe practical functioning democracy is that at all.

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

It's all well and good having a 2% advantage in a vote but it's useless if as a result it's not possible to implement the end product, in that case, the theoretical advantage of democracy is overridden by the practical aspects. Had the vote been 50.1% versus 49.9%, what would be have done, we would have changed the question and revoted that's what. You and others seem to have this idea that democracy is a black and white thing based solely on numerical supremacy, I don't believe practical functioning democracy is that at all.

No country in the world has a practical functioning democracy but many have the appearance of such.

3 hours ago, aright said:

Who wants to live in a country where unelected men and women acting on behalf of a foreign parliament can carry out raids on a business in London because they feel like it?

 

https://uk.news.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrP4nYcC89aZA4AGAVLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTE0cGs5cThkBGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVUlVS0MwMV8xBHNlYwNzYw--?p=the+recklessly+provocative+Murdoch+office+raids&fr=yfp-t&fr2=cosmos

Murdoch? Sky? Fox?

 

Pass me a box of matches

 

Wrecked much of UK media by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Australian as you would expect

One year ago, UK Export Finance (UKEF), the UK’s export credit agency, published its 3-year strategy to provide more relevant, scalable and accessible support for UK exports.

Since then, UKEF has implemented numerous innovations and supported hundreds of millions of pounds of export revenue for the UK. UKEF has also been awarded ‘best export credit agency’ by Global Trade Review, a leading international trade news source.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ukefs-2020-strategy-delivers-hundreds-of-millions-of-pounds-worth-of-uk-exports

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

One year ago, UK Export Finance (UKEF), the UK’s export credit agency, published its 3-year strategy to provide more relevant, scalable and accessible support for UK exports.

Since then, UKEF has implemented numerous innovations and supported hundreds of millions of pounds of export revenue for the UK. UKEF has also been awarded ‘best export credit agency’ by Global Trade Review, a leading international trade news source.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ukefs-2020-strategy-delivers-hundreds-of-millions-of-pounds-worth-of-uk-exports

How brave of them.

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Official figures show that UK exports are increasing and research suggests the demand for UK goods and services will double by 2030.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-good-news-for-british-businesses-as-exports-growth-continues

UK exports rose from £59.4 billion to £627.6 billion between March 2017 and the end of February 2018 - an increase of 10.4%.

 

No comment necessary.

 

In the last quarter, non EU exports fell back

 

18 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

It's all well and good having a 2% advantage in a vote but it's useless if as a result it's not possible to implement the end product, in that case, the theoretical advantage of democracy is overridden by the practical aspects. Had the vote been 50.1% versus 49.9%, what would be have done, we would have changed the question and revoted that's what. You and others seem to have this idea that democracy is a black and white thing based solely on numerical supremacy, I don't believe practical functioning democracy is that at all.

As SB points out your practical functioning democracy doesn't exist although as stated you obviously would prefer to overturn any thing that's less than 80/20. On that basis I'm sure almost nothing would be accomplished. 

In its simplest form democracy to most of the electorate is "Majority rules"  or "It's a form of government in which sovereign power resides in the people and is exercised by them". ........ nowhere could I find as long as its practical. 

 

1 minute ago, aright said:

 

As SB points out your practical functioning democracy doesn't exist although as stated you obviously would prefer to overturn any thing that's less than 80/20. On that basis I'm sure almost nothing would be accomplished. 

In its simplest form democracy to most of the electorate is "Majority rules"  or "It's a form of government in which sovereign power resides in the people and is exercised by them". ........ nowhere could I find as long as its practical. 

 

Whoosh....!

6 minutes ago, aright said:

 

As SB points out your practical functioning democracy doesn't exist although as stated you obviously would prefer to overturn any thing that's less than 80/20. On that basis I'm sure almost nothing would be accomplished. 

In its simplest form democracy to most of the electorate is "Majority rules"  or "It's a form of government in which sovereign power resides in the people and is exercised by them". ........ nowhere could I find as long as its practical. 

 

That's the way Hitler eventually came to power, wasn't very practical in the long run but he got some good autobahns built and Mussolini made the trains run on time. Wasn't Mao popular? Sometimes the plebs need protection from themselves which is why we have a parliamentary democracy where the MP's have a host of experts and a civil servants to guide them, no need for mob rule, just vote them out by the next election if you want a drastic change.

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Whoosh....!

Quite! 

 

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

That's the way Hitler eventual powerly came to 

I'm not sure what, powerly came to, means.

I'm not defending outcomes only commenting on procedures.

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender":

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/12/bid-stop-brexit-remainers-launch-1m-campaign-keep-uk-europe/

 Great! The intellectuals' revolt! Presumably the money is for Cambridge analytica?

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Murdoch? Sky? Fox?

 

Pass me a box of matches

 

Wrecked much of UK media by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Australian as you would expect

I was hoping you might comment on what the EU did rather than use the article to slag off Mr Murdoch. I should add I have no great love for Rupert unless he's a bear of course.

 

"What is happening at Mr Murdoch's offices at present could in theory be taking place at any of the media groups which have long opposed the EU and which urged readers to vote Leave - the Express titles, the Daily Mail and, yes, the Telegraph. It just so happens that the faceless EU civil servants and functionaries have gone for the biggest and best-known player of all on this occasion, but I believe that each of these companies is now effectively on warning. They wish to remind us: due to the fact that the UK will remain a full member of the EU for another 11 months, we are still subject to EU rules."  

 I think this sums it up nicely......

18 minutes ago, aright said:

 

As SB points out your practical functioning democracy doesn't exist although as stated you obviously would prefer to overturn any thing that's less than 80/20. On that basis I'm sure almost nothing would be accomplished. 

In its simplest form democracy to most of the electorate is "Majority rules"  or "It's a form of government in which sovereign power resides in the people and is exercised by them". ........ nowhere could I find as long as its practical. 

 

there is no tract or text on democracy anywhere ever that claims "majority rules" as a tenet.

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

The UK has already opted out of the Euro - by leaving the EU

Silly comment. Right now we NEVER need join the Euro. If we leave and rejoin, that opt out will be gone. Better remain until end 2020 and then decide. Don't Brexiteers know anything?

7 minutes ago, aright said:

 

I'm not sure what, powerly came to, means.

I'm not defending outcomes only commenting on procedures.

sorry, I clicked send by mistake while doing an alteration, my keyboard is up the spout so I am using a screen keyboard, have to get used to it first, can't have an important sender like mine to be offline.

2 hours ago, tebee said:

Oddly enough, although I'm a committed remainer, I'm more sad than angry now.

 

The Brexit we are heading for is much nearer to remaining that anything that was ever promised on the leave side - it's just going to be a bad version of EU membership. May and the rest of her team are such useless negotiators that all the red lines are dissolving before our eyes. Lack of any  ideas on our side just means we capitulate to the EU time after time.

 

So I'm sad that the pyrrhic victory of leaving the EU will leave the country worse off with no benefit. I still would prefer we stay, but if we don't so be it.    

Thanks morons ?

I take my hat off to you guys.  I came to check out how the thread was going with the intention of reading the posts I had missed.  However that would be a task akin to climbing Everest wearing flip flops!  I am mightily impressed that you dedicated posters are still plugging away.  Is it time to contact the Guinness Book Of Records yet?

 

Brexit itself seems to be taking a back seat in the media at the moment because of other matters and I am afraid I have little to bring to the debate.  I did find it interesting to read (apologies if this has been covered already) about the talk of a new party being planned by some of the heavy weights in politics and being backed financially by some serious businesses.

 

It should be said that it is not an anti Brexit party and those behind it are from both sides.  It is clear that the government and the Labour party are in disarray and there is a desperate need for some clear policies and direction.  It may not happen (we all remember the SDP!) but something needs to be done.

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 Great! The intellectuals' revolt! Presumably the money is for Cambridge analytica?

I think he is an old 'die hard' who has been watching too much history channel