TM30 explained for landlords and tenants

[JAS21]

When a visitor arrives at airport immigration do they have to say where they will be staying ... what happens if they haven't as yet booked a hotel ... just wondering how my family can avoid saying that they are staying with me.

 

As they will arrive about 7pm and we all go to a hotel in Kanchanaburi the next morning the hotel (owned by a friend) could do the reporting  ... job done

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

When a visitor arrives at airport immigration do they have to say where they will be staying ... what happens if they haven't as yet booked a hotel ... just wondering how my family can avoid saying that they are staying with me.

 

As they will arrive about 7pm and we all go to a hotel in Kanchanaburi the next morning the hotel (owned by a friend) could do the reporting  ... job done

Nobody cares what you write on the arrival card, but they want you to write something in this field. Wanting to go to a hotel and then not going there is still allowed. If they just write something like "Hilton Bangkok" it's ok. And if they don't plan a visit to an immigration office you don't have to care about the TM30

[zaZa9]

10 hours ago, sandrabbit said:

We have 2 parallel topics running on this now, is it possible to combine the 2?. 

 

 

There is yet another thread running on this topic , but not sure where it is.

 

I posted this report on my experience in Phuket  , but got no replies.

As far as I know , Phuket is enforcing this , "24 hour report" ruling , but openly stated to me that one could be a little longer than 24 hrs , and that it only applied to  those doing OVERSEAS trips..

 

ay now , and I had to go and deal with this ridiculous new ( well actually a 1978 ruling that was quickly abandoned but never wrote out of law , apparently ) law designed to make the Dept of Immigration earn a few baht in fines if you dont ...

On my last visit to Phuket Town Immigration ( PTI ) for my 90 day report , I informed the officer I would be heading overseas for a 2 week holiday soon , and did I really need to report my address within 24 hours of returning to Phuket?

He was a pleasant enough fellow , and he sort of sighed and said that , 'Yes , that is now the rules sir'.

I also asked the farang assistants outside , and they grinned and said that it WAS the rules , and what I was essentially doing was another version of a "DOCUMENT OF CERTIFICATE OF RESIDENCE" , but PTI allowed a ' bit more than 24 hours'.

They gave me a card with a list of what I'd need to bring , and it stated I needed ( their words , my brackets ) -

1. Copy for (my residences) owner I.D. card

2. Copy registration for house

3. Copy contract for rent ( so 'lease' I guess )

4. Copy passport and visa

5. photo 2" for 2 photo 

I kind of got the feeling that this was a ruling that nobody had any heart for , but since I knew the fine was 1600 baht , as thats what my friend had to pay , and since I had heard since that a daily fine was also possible ( lots of varying amounts depending on who and where they had had dealings with this ) , I decided to report. I know an old fellow who was amde pay 1600 , PLUS 1200 for being 5 days late - first day 'free'..)

Today was rainy , so at the last minute I decided to go to Patong , rather than PTI.

I dislike the two men in the Patong Office immensely , they are snakes as far as Im concerned. But since I felt I had everything correct , I stopped there.



There was no mention of a TM form , and it being May , nobody lining up , so I went straight in.

This is a close transcript of my interaction ...

"Pappa , come in , what you doing?"

Wadee kup ( wai ) : "Sir , I've been on vacation and was told I need to report within 24 hours.."

Holding out hand , "Yesss. You make the paper ?"

"Yes Sir."

He looks to the other guy at the next desk who has a 'customer' . This other guy Ive met before ( he demanded 1000 baht off me for a 'Proof of Residence' paper on a jam packed day 16 months back ) , and he always acts as slick as a used car dealer.

"You see this man ..( passes papers to the next guy ) "

The 'other' guy looks up and takes my papers and pics .

He says , "You just come back from another country and you are Retirement huh?"

"Yes Sir."

" You landlord can do this paper. Or you can do online."

"Sir , my landlord is an old Thai man , and he says he doesn't know what to do."

Grunts. Looks at the info card from PTI that I have stapled to the plastic sleeve containing the papers required.

"You go Phuket Town already?"

"Yes , before I went overseas and they told me what to bring."

"Why you not go Phuket Town today huh?"

"Sir today it is raining."

Grunts.

"Ok , I will help you ."

Ignoring his customer , he spins his PC toward himself , taps away , stamps a small piece of paper twice , and hands me back everything Ive brought without looking at it or keeping anything. It takes 30 seconds.

He passes my papers in the sleeve back.

I thank them , wai , and am gone.
I can see no marking of anything he did in my passport.

The "Receipt  of Notification " ( of notification of aliens address ) remains from 2558 ( 2015 ) ..

Another "Receipt of Notification  ,  ( "....notification of staying in Thailand for  90 days from ..." ) , remains the same paper stapled in back at the airport on  my recent arrival back here.

Anyway , Im convinced this whole thing is not really about knowing where the alien is. After all , I could have moved home an hour after..

[Telly]

If you've been here long enough,  you know how things work. 

think for yourself, trust your instincts. 

It's a farang troll scare mongering. 

And some of the replies from others are posted by the troll himself. 

Read the language slants,  it's written by the same person. 

The only thing consistent in Thailand is there is no consistency. 

What one immi office does is different from another. 

Until today majority of computer networks in each province are not linked. 

Why?  Because <deleted> wants to give up his fiefdom. 

Think!

I will not be surprised if this troll has an legal visa application company to help you. 

[Maestro]

On 6/7/2018 at 4:35 AM, sam neuts said:

…We are a number of people who are interested and researching a number of existing laws that are coming into effect, and some new laws and amendments that DO affect both residents and visitors to Thailand…

 

 

I would like to commend you and the other people who are researching for the benefit of Thaivisa members the Thai laws to which foreigners arriving and staying in Thailand are subject in some ways. As you will already have noted in the course of your research, far too often government officials who are quoted by the media as saying that something is the law apparently fail to say what law or official regulation and what section, article or clause thereof they are referring to, and strangely no journalist ever seems to ask the official that question and get an answer.

 

Therefore, you can earn the esteem and respect of Thaivisa members if in a legal treatise like your opening post of this topic and other posts you follow the norm generally practiced by researchers of stating the details of the legal source and preferably also give a link to it.

 

Regarding the form TM.30 , which is the subject of this topic, it is already widely known on Thaivisa that the legal basis for it is Section 38 of the Immigration Act. In addition, there is the "regulation prescribed by the Director-General" of the Police Department issued under the authority of Section 38, which I have been unable to track down and it would be great if your team could find it.

 

[Golden Triangle]

It's so easy to get around this crap if you have a Thai Mrs or GF, I usually book the hotels on the tinternet or by phone if they speak English, when we arrive the Mrs gives them her ID card which they book us in with, no hassle, no stupid TM30. 

[AYJAYDEE]

Lol! they allow you to report to the local police if you dont live near an immigration office and I can guarantee our local cops wont be entering the info into their computer database!

 

[Maestro]

10 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

TM 30 must be done by landlord, foreigner is not responsible for TM30

 

The term "landlord" in connection with the requirement to submit the form TM.30 to immigration is ambiguous and should preferably not be used without indication what the writer means with it.

This is what the Immigration Act says about who must submit the notification of the arrival of a foreigner at a residence or a hotel:

 

Quote

Section 38. The householder, the owner or the possessor of a dwelling
place or a hotel manager, who takes in, as a resident, an alien with permission to
temporarily stay in the Kingdom, shall notify the competent official at the immigration office
located in the locality in which the house, dwelling place, or hotel is located within twenty
four hours from the time the alien has taken residence.

 

"Householder" is defined in Section 4 of the Immigration Act as follows:

 

Quote

“Householder” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house,
whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever in accordance
with the law on civil registration.

 

"owner" and "possessor" are not defined in the Immigration Act but these two terms are used in Section 4 in the text used to define "householder", as shown above.

 

 

 

 

 

[lkv]

6 hours ago, Sydneyboy1 said:

You are always saying "WE" who is we? 

Guys, hello....? I mean like hello?

 

Troll Alert?

 

"We are a number of people who are interested and researching a number of existing laws that are coming into effect, and some new laws and amendments that DO affect both residents and visitors to Thailand…"

 

They wanna make us "think" you see?

 

@jackdd you're correctly calling him a troll and then he hooks you up in the discussion?

 

I just went through this 11 page nonsense.

 

Yes we know that many laws in Thailand are antique, selectively enforced right now to screw the farangs out of a few bucks, not sure we needed more information.

 

To the OP, as I understand you are a busy guy, please focus your energy in scrutinising these laws, we appreciate your effort to raise awareness, thank you so much for doing that, your contribution is appreciated, see you next year.

[AYJAYDEE]

6 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

The term "landlord" in connection with the requirement to submit the form TM.30 to immigration is ambiguous and should preferably not be used without indication what the writer means with it.

This is what the Immigration Act says about who must submit the notification of the arrival of a foreigner at a residence or a hotel:

 

 

"Householder" is defined in Section 4 of the Immigration Act as follows:

 

 

"owner" and "possessor" are not defined in the Immigration Act but these two terms are used in Section 4 in the text used to defined "householder", as shown above.

 

 

 

 

 

so that could include the person renting the house, apt or condo.

[Maestro]

53 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

so that could include the person renting the house, apt or condo.

 

Yes, definitely. Pruning the text of the definition of "householder" in Section 4 of the Immigration Act to limit it to what is applicable to a tenant, it will read as follows: 

“Householder” means the person who is the chief possessor of a house in the capacity of tenant.

 

The fact that Section 38 does not simply state that the householder must make the notification gives immigration in the case of a leased residence the option to accept the form TM.30 from the owner, even though he is not the householder as defined in Section 4, or in the case where neither an owner nor a tenant is the chief possessor and thus the householder to accept the notification from another person who is the possessor in another capacity.

[SunsetT]

Sam Neuts......This is exactly what a discussion group should be.

 

Lots of different opinions and stories from people who have never had a problem through to people that have.

 

Of course there is no clear solution because enforcement of the laws change regularly along with the laws themselves.

 

Everyone makes their own choice on what path to follow but always good to hear about others experiences and maybe learn some things.

 

Is there a YES or NO answer to any of these topics?

 

....But you have falsely posted this as fact and not provided  any  source(s) for the info. you originally posted. It is therefore purely your opinion or maybe plucked straight from your imagination! In other words Sam Neuts you are

nothing more than a troll and possibly f e c k i n neuts!

 

.

[PhonThong]

On 6/6/2018 at 8:31 PM, Orton Rd said:

I have been on a retirement extension for years, went in today to renew and was fined for not filling out this TM30, your time will come I expect

This is the part that I don't understand. Why were you fined for not doing a TM 30? The law states, as is my understanding. That it is the homeowners or landlords responsibility to submit the form. Do they just get off scott free?

 Or is it just more convenient to fine the Tennant?

Since this post will go to the back of the line after submission. I am sorry if it gets answered before this.

[Orton Rd]

Maybe I should have said 'we' technically the Mrs was fined as the house is in her name of course, I paid though. The fine was 2k reduced because it was only a few days over the one week grace period. We were told it could be reported on line and gave us the URL, so far I have not seen anyone saying they managed to do this. It is ambiguous as the note on the 90 day slip only refers to the foreigner having to attend immigration to report.

[JackThompson]

On 6/7/2018 at 9:49 AM, Suradit69 said:

The "retirement desk" wouldn't be the one fining you and retirement extension applications for any particular immigration office  wouldn't  be received  "from all over Thailand."

Some desks at that office (but not retirement, according to reports) insist on an up-to-date TM-30 before they will process a service.  I encountered this personally, with the Tourist and Family desks at Jomtien.   Others at the TM-30 desk were being fined while I was there.

 

 

[Kwasaki]

34 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Many people living all over Thailand using retirement-extensions send (mail) their passports to agents who submit at Jomtien, since there is a well-established agent-payoff arrangement with immigration there, for applications with faked-money.

You can use an agent by going into your local Immigration office and handed 2 photos and passport to a immigration officer, it will processed and you pay when you get your stamped passport back.

What's fake about that.?

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, jackdd said:

We are talking about laws, so there is only one single relevant source: The law.

I love the idea of "equality under the law," personally, but if only what "the law says" really mattered here.  Whoever you deal with is unlikely to give a flip what "the law" says, and will only get angry and cause you more problems if you dare to tell them.  All that matters is "what are the people in uniforms" ordering us to do, and in what conditions and/or areas of the country. 

 

18 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

TM 30 must be done by landlord, foreigner is not responsible for TM30. As you can´t own any land you cannot own a property, only a Condo, where the condo management has to do it. It is clear written in the law, how is responsible

That's what the law says, but that is not how it works in real-life - where YOU (the foreigner) are always the ultimately responsible (and usually "fine-paying") party.  Here is how it works in practice:  

 

You go to immigration for something, they tell you to file/pay-fine for a TM-30 or no service.  The rules for TM-30 filing vary by office and sub-section of the office, and from week to week.  You can be fined for doing what you were told the last time, which has been changed, or maybe you get a warning "this time."  Condo-mgmt have no idea what you are talking about and/or "not our problem."  

 

Maybe your landlord away on vacation, or simply cannot be bothered.  Some imm-offices require to you bring your landlord the first time - in which case, if they don't live in the area or are not willing, you simply have to move (lose deposit, etc) or go out for Visas to avoid the immigration office.

 

In the end, you must either pay immigration or you don't get service - period.  Maybe a landlord reimburses you, or maybe not. 

[rumak]

 

On 6/6/2018 at 8:31 PM, Orton Rd said:

I have been on a retirement extension for years, went in today to renew and was fined for not filling out this TM30, your time will come I expect

On 6/6/2018 at 8:31 PM, Orton Rd said:

 

I have been posting about this on various tm30 TV post for at least a year.  I always get tons of negative feedback arguing with me about my experience on this subject  ( i do tm30 for tenants AND even had to do one for myself even though i have a yellow book and have lived here for a longggg time)   

I can only second what orton rd says:   your time will come.   

If you like fighting with immigration officials this should be a great opportunity.  Coming to your neighborhood soon !

[rumak]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I love the idea of "equality under the law," personally, but if only what "the law says" really mattered here.  Whoever you deal with is unlikely to give a flip what "the law" says, and will only get angry and cause you more problems if you dare to tell them.  All that matters is "what are the people in uniforms" ordering us to do, and in what conditions and/or areas of the country. 

 

That's what the law says, but that is not how it works in real-life - where YOU (the foreigner) are always the ultimately responsible (and usually "fine-paying") party.  Here is how it works in practice:  

 

You go to immigration for something, they tell you to file/pay-fine for a TM-30 or no service.  The rules for TM-30 filing vary by office and sub-section of the office, and from week to week.  You can be fined for doing what you were told the last time, which has been changed, or maybe you get a warning "this time."  Condo-mgmt have no idea what you are talking about and/or "not our problem."  

 

Maybe your landlord away on vacation, or simply cannot be bothered.  Some imm-offices require to you bring your landlord the first time - in which case, if they don't live in the area or are not willing, you simply have to move (lose deposit, etc) or go out for Visas to avoid the immigration office.

 

In the end, you must either pay immigration or you don't get service - period.  Maybe a landlord reimburses you, or maybe not. 

Congratulations for taking the time to write all this.  I have written similar explanations in the past but just get a lot of flak for my attempts.   No more advice from me on this subject !   

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

so if i travel to hua hin for one day, i have to go to immigration to do this TM 30 form. than i am free to enjoy the beach.

but the trip to immigration office in hua hin takes 20 minutes.

than there is a line of 30-40 minutes.

than go back another 20 minutes.

does it really worth it?

to spend 2-3 hours every time i travel to another place in thailand, just to fill another form?

NOOO...i don't think i will take my holiday like that.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so if i travel to hua hin for one day, i have to go to immigration to do this TM 30 form. than i am free to enjoy the beach.

but the trip to immigration office in hua hin takes 20 minutes.

than there is a line of 30-40 minutes.

than go back another 20 minutes.

does it really worth it?

to spend 2-3 hours every time i travel to another place in thailand, just to fill another form?

NOOO...i don't think i will take my holiday like that.

You should read the thread from the start, you seem to not understand how TM30's work.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

You should read the thread from the start, you seem to not understand how TM30's work.

i understand perfectly , mate. what i mean is that if tourists have to worry about so many form just when they come for a short holiday, than they simply will not come.

there are many other countries who don't give you all those headechs.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i understand perfectly , mate. what i mean is that if tourists have to worry about so many form just when they come for a short holiday, than they simply will not come.

there are many other countries who don't give you all those headechs.

TM30's are not intended for tourists.

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

TM30's are not intended for tourists.

At Jomtien, if you apply for a 30-day extension of a tourist-entry (with visa or exempt), you must first file a TM-30. 

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

At Jomtien, if you apply for a 30-day extension of a tourist-entry (with visa or exempt), you must first file a TM-30. 

Wow, if I was a tourist at Jomtiem I would tell them to get stuffed and go to another country for my holiday.

 

No wait, that can't be right...if I'm staying at a Thai five star and spending 15k a night and decide to stay another month, I have to go to Immigration and go through the palava of getting "landlords/hotel" to sign for me etc...I don't think so.

[JackThompson]

26 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Wow, if I was a tourist at Jomtiem I would tell them to get stuffed and go to another country for my holiday.

 

No wait, that can't be right...if I'm staying at a Thai five star and spending 15k a night and decide to stay another month, I have to go to Immigration and go through the palava of getting "landlords/hotel" to sign for me etc...I don't think so.

Go to the front-desk, and tell them you want to extend your Tourist Visa.  You will be given a list of things to provide.  In the case of a hotel,  you need a business-card for the hotel, a receipt for payment to the hotel, and hope the hotel filed a TM-30 for you when you checked-in.

 

Or, you can pay an "agent" a cash-sum to "handle it all" for you - which is probably what "Mr. Stays-In 5-Star-Hotel" will do.

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, PhonThong said:

This is the part that I don't understand. Why were you fined for not doing a TM 30? The law states, as is my understanding. That it is the homeowners or landlords responsibility to submit the form. Do they just get off scott free?

 Or is it just more convenient to fine the Tennant?

Since this post will go to the back of the line after submission. I am sorry if it gets answered before this.

 

See if this post answers your question:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1041676-tm30-explained-for-landlords-and-tenants/?do=findComment&amp;comment=13056696

 

Otherwise, try this post:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1041676-tm30-explained-for-landlords-and-tenants/?do=findComment&amp;comment=13056649

 

[5633572526]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:02 AM, Pattaya46 said:

As you have read his other thread already, you certainly noticed he never give any source, any name or any link. He just copy other articles from Facebook posts, regardless of theem being news or rumour. 

 

There are many things false in his OP of this thread. By example :

> A TM30 is required to be completed within 24 hours of arrival at whichever building a foreigner is staying in. This applies to ALL foreigners regardless of, if they are visiting Thailand for a short holiday, or if they are living here more permanently.

False. Jomtien refuses TM30 of people living here on Retirement extension. (They refused mine)

> They are now asking for your TM30 when you report to immigration for your 90 day report, which obviously only applies to long stay visitors. 

False again. I made many 90-Days reports without any TM30

> Remember foreigners should carry their passport at all times according to Thai Law. 

False again. Many articles and speeches of high ranked Police officers on this subject. An official ID such as a Thai Driving Licence is enough.

 

 

 

Agree with everything said here and just completed my retirement extension in bkk and actually in all the years I have been here have never been asked for tm30 

one addition would be to carry a copy of your passport. The actual passport you are not required to carry.

[Maestro]

I removed an off-topic post about land tax and several off-topic posts about extensions of stay and the replies to them.

[fobuff]

I had friends from America visit me for two weeks in Bangkok...  Fill in TM30  ???

 

I visit my in-laws in Surin often for a week at a time ... they fill a TM30....  ???

 

Totally ridiculous....