Hundreds of Small and Medium Hotels Closed by Police in Chiang Mai Crackdown

[MekkOne]

5 minutes ago, cmsally said:

It is not a case of people paying off officials to ignore building regulations. These building regulations have only just been invented. The "govt" is applying them retroactively.

It is basically paying to be able to continue to operate in business under the new set of rules. How you wish to construe that is up to you, but your correct understanding will more than likely have a positive correlation to the time you have spent doing business here.

yeah, you're right, some modify has been made at the Hotel act, yet small GH with less than 4 rooms and/or 20 guests are out of this new thing for what I understand. Little places that has been closed where braking some other rules.

[newnative]

27 minutes ago, Thailand said:

And the hundreds of houses on estates offering Airbnb type services increase daily with no restrictions.

Yes, and condos, too.  That's where they should be focusing.

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

You believe wrong,

No I dont .

Thai court rules AirBnB against the law in Thailand for daily and weekly rentals, Banned!

https://thepattayanews.com/2018/05/16/thai-court-rules-airbnb-against-the-law-in-thailand-for-daily-and-weekly-rentals-banned/

[MekkOne]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No I dont .

Thai court rules AirBnB against the law in Thailand for daily and weekly rentals, Banned!

https://thepattayanews.com/2018/05/16/thai-court-rules-airbnb-against-the-law-in-thailand-for-daily-and-weekly-rentals-banned/

you do...

 

What is a hotel? An application is only needed if the venture qualifies as a hotel under the regulatory framework. A hotel business is defined under the law as

• the offering of accommodation to the public for a duration below a month
• in exchange for payment,
• either with the capacity of more than four rooms in total or more than twenty guests.

In case of  AirBnB‘d condo units, recent court decisions indicate that the whole condo development it relevant for the fulfillment of the last prerequisite, not just the unit that is rented. 

 

This note as been published in a Attorney website on the 28th of May.

[cmsally]

9 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

yeah, you're right, some modify has been made at the Hotel act, yet small GH with less than 4 rooms and/or 20 guests are out of this new thing for what I understand. Little places that has been closed where braking some other rules.

Places with less than 5 rooms have to apply for a special "exclusion certificate" (sorry can't remember the exact name. They can't just ignore the law.

If you have more than 4 rooms even if it sleeps less than 20 people you still need a license.

[MekkOne]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

Places with less than 5 rooms have to apply for a special "exclusion certificate" (sorry can't remember the exact name. They can't just ignore the law.

If you have more than 4 rooms even if it sleeps less than 20 people you still need a license.

yeah of course, I know the law, thing is that a AirBNB apartment or villa with 4 or more bedrooms is not considered an hotel, a condominium with more than 4 apartments it is.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

you do...

 

What is a hotel? An application is only needed if the venture qualifies as a hotel under the regulatory framework. A hotel business is defined under the law as

• the offering of accommodation to the public for a duration below a month
• in exchange for payment,
• either with the capacity of more than four rooms in total or more than twenty guests.

In case of  AirBnB‘d condo units, recent court decisions indicate that the whole condo development it relevant for the fulfillment of the last prerequisite, not just the unit that is rented. 

 

This note as been published in a Attorney website on the 28th of May.

The question was whether the Thai authorities are clamping down on airbnb , as Thai Courts have ruled them to be illegal for short stays , that is indeed clamping down in airbnbs

[MekkOne]

and if you got a villa you cannot rent out more than 4 bedrooms in it using airbnb

[connda]

I'm sure the Big Hotels are happy that they don't have the competition.  Higher occupancy rates and inflated rooms cost = ฿฿฿ Cha-Ching ฿฿฿. 

Seems to be all out war and the lower and middle class.  "Happiness to the (rich) people!"

Edited June 8, 2018 by connda

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Is it really hundreds of hotels as the article title says or just many?  Hundreds means at least 200.  that is a lot of properties.  Now as "low" season kind of approaches, is this the Juntas way of raising money, maybe figuring so many hotels will be nearly empty with no tourist dollars coming in, they now are trying to get money by fining the properties?  Boy, I hope my devious mind is exceeding reality.

Receptionist at my hotel says 200 places closed.

Either the government backs off, or it's going to end in tears. Every one of those places employs several workers. All the guests at those places eats at restaurants nearby, and those places employ workers. Seems yet another poorly thought through knee jerk reaction to something, with massive unintended consequences.

I'm mystified though, at where all the closed places are, as I haven't seen any, and where I am, there are loads of cheap guest houses.

[Bangkok Barry]

16 hours ago, cmsally said:

I don't think anyone disagrees with having some regulation but how on earth they got the idea to apply it across the whole board and retroactively, I do not understand. Many businesses complied with all the regulations at the start but now they find themselves on the wrong side of the law. 

The big problem is the creation of the new building license, for many buildings they cannot make their building fit those specifications. If they were in the process of building then of course they could make sure the plans fit the specifications. But this is like having the building plans drawn up after the building has been built !

 

You're looking for logic in Thailand?

[mlmcleod]

I suspect that the big donors who donate full brown envelopes are eliminating the competition during low season.  That said there are definitely way too many  boutique "hotels" in Thailand.  Many of them are pure rip-offs!  My favorite is the hotel that decided to charge 300 baht extra for air conditioning that upon observation did not work!  The room photos on the web site were also faked.  The proprietor apologized profusely but refused to refund the money!  Caveat Emptor is the rule in Thailand!

Edited July 19, 2018 by metisdead
Bold font removed again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[sammieuk1]

I had a 4 bed guest /restaurant/bar in Chiang Mai about 6 years ago had it with only alcohol licence ran it for a year and it only paid off for one week 51 weeks no profit. the tourists who come north are cheap100bt a night riffraff in the main. lucky for me I found a couple of Slovakians with deep pockets and got shot of it for a tidy profit . You will now see a heap of landlords who can't rent out their overpriced concrete box's and tenants who can't pay the rent. 

[cmsally]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Receptionist at my hotel says 200 places closed.

Either the government backs off, or it's going to end in tears. Every one of those places employs several workers. All the guests at those places eats at restaurants nearby, and those places employ workers. Seems yet another poorly thought through knee jerk reaction to something, with massive unintended consequences.

I'm mystified though, at where all the closed places are, as I haven't seen any, and where I am, there are loads of cheap guest houses.

I saw about 20 signs at least on a short walk this morning. Then on top of that at least 5 places very close to us and at least 4 signs on the main street close to Chiang Mai Gate that I saw yesterday.

So that is about 30 just in a very limited area.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

I had a 4 bed guest /restaurant/bar in Chiang Mai about 6 years ago had it with only alcohol licence ran it for a year and it only paid off for one week 51 weeks no profit. the tourists who come north are cheap100bt a night riffraff in the main. lucky for me I found a couple of Slovakians with deep pockets and got shot of it for a tidy profit . You will now see a heap of landlords who can't rent out their overpriced concrete box's and tenants who can't pay the rent. 

IMO, though not on the subject of the OP, guest house owners for too long got used to hordes of western bagpackers that stayed in badly run, unattractive, poor quality dumps, because it was part of the "adventure". They never did anything to improve their run down hovels, or provide a good service because there were always more coming.

Seems things have changed, but they either don't want to, or can't afford to improve their places to cater for a more discerning guest demographic.

 

I have on a couple of occasions stayed at a local guesthouse in C M. The interior is run down, the place is full of rubbish, the back yard a disaster area. It costs little to put some bright paint on the walls, and nothing but energy to clean up the rubbish and make the place attractive. As it's in a very good location, I'd love to buy it as I could, for little cost, make it a very popular place to stay. A real pity, but I doubt the people that run it even realise how off putting the rubbish is.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

I saw about 20 signs at least on a short walk this morning. Then on top of that at least 5 places very close to us and at least 4 signs on the main street close to Chiang Mai Gate that I saw yesterday.

So that is about 30 just in a very limited area.

I wonder if it's mainly in the old city? If parking is the problem, there is no way they'll ever qualify.

If this isn't resolved soon, the city authorities will be panicking as they see millions of baht not being spent, as bagpackers flee the city. They won't be wanting to stay in pricy hotels.

I haven't heard if Khao San Rd area is also being shut down.

[cmsally]

Parking doesn't seem to be an issue that is checked in the latest hotel licensing processes. Green space is an issue which is why many places won't pass.

Other issues are amount of total floor space, width of stairways and corridors and construction standards. Nearly all this stuff is made up with the large hotels in mind.

[spidermike007]

More absolutely inane policy, from this fabulously incompetent administration. They continue to sabotage the economy. They cannot get out of their own way. They shoot themselves, and the honest, hard working, common Thai people in the foot daily. 

 

He gave an example of one of the rules that requires every accommodation business to have at least 15% green space, but as small business operators in a dense town, there is hardly any space left, with many guest houses using town houses that have almost no green space whatsoever. For those with space, budget and difficulties authorising their ‘green space’ can hamper their efforts.

 

How on earth can some of these urban spots have the garden areas they are requiring? And why is this requirement not being imposed on the cities of this nation? Bangkok, Hua Hin, Pattaya, Korat, Udon Thani, Chaiyaphum, and Chiang Mai have some of the lowest ratios of parkland and public space, per capita, in the world. As usual, the common man and woman is getting picked on. Way to go Little P. Keep it up. Continue to sabotage your economy. Continue to lower the quality of life for your people. Continue to protect the elite, the super wealthy and those that are connected. 

 

The goons in charge are focusing their efforts in all the wrong areas. They are trying to make Thailand a Quaker State. A land of purity. Total BS. Nonsense. Misplaced priorities, and wasted efforts. They should be focusing their efforts on traffic and public safety, easing import tariffs, making visa policy simpler, and more friendly, boosting Western tourism, real crackdowns on slavery, and illegal fishing instead of nonsensical hyperbole, cleaning up the water, the air, the rivers, and the beaches, and other things that actually improve lives.

 

I have some advice for you. Get out. Get out now. You are not wanted. You are not popular. You are beyond incompetent. You have no idea what you are doing. You have put together an administration so lacking in talent, it boggles the mind. Leave. Pack your bags. You are not needed anymore. 

 

Little P. Not making Thailand great again. And moving the nation backwards at an astonishing and alarming pace.  

Edited June 8, 2018 by spidermike007

[moontang]

On 6/8/2018 at 2:05 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO, though not on the subject of the OP, guest house owners for too long got used to hordes of western bagpackers that stayed in badly run, unattractive, poor quality dumps, because it was part of the "adventure". They never did anything to improve their run down hovels, or provide a good service because there were always more coming.

Seems things have changed, but they either don't want to, or can't afford to improve their places to cater for a more discerning guest demographic.

 

I have on a couple of occasions stayed at a local guesthouse in C M. The interior is run down, the place is full of rubbish, the back yard a disaster area. It costs little to put some bright paint on the walls, and nothing but energy to clean up the rubbish and make the place attractive. As it's in a very good location, I'd love to buy it as I could, for little cost, make it a very popular place to stay. A real pity, but I doubt the people that run it even realise how off putting the rubbish is.

sounds exactly like my last and final visit to CM.  A lot of stuff could have easily been cleaned or repaired, but I never saw the mostly shirtless European owner lift a finger to fix some real simple problems.  He did spend a lot of time attacking anyone, who stated the obvious on Agoda and TA.  I went in to use the ground floor restroom, by the kitchen....an open bin of soiled tissue half full, no lid and no running water.  Seriously, how much for a new water connector or faucet?  Good to see these places shuttered.  

Edited June 9, 2018 by moontang

[Greenside]

This is not what has upset people.  Hostels and low end accommodation have sprung up everywhere and judging from care taken with the exteriors, they are all a mile above the kind of places you are talking about - in fact I'd say that the bad places must be feeling the pressure as there is so much choice in the 350 - 800 baht a night range.  The attempt to take CM upmarket and get visitors to spend more per head was a dismal failure and now there are a lot of mid and high end properties hurting.  You can bet that some lobbying has been done to protect their interests.

 

Not that I'm in favour of poor safety standards etc, it's just that as usual the laws that govern the guest house business have been on the books for a long time and were only dusted off when it suited a group with a vested interest.  Where were the inspectors and planning people when the dozens of shophouses were being converted?  Almost by definition, a shophouse can't meet the green space requirement.

[Sparkles]

Its yet another 'sinister' development for Chiang Mai.

 

The conditions now set to be legal in having a GH/small hotel are  impossible to meet."Green space" and "Parking" in Thepae Rd ????

 

Yesterday I was driving my car in and around the old  city most of the day.I went through 3 road blocks pulling over motor cyclists and judging by the numbered helmets  many were tourists.Not long ago a friend who has been coming to CM for decades was pulled over 3 times in one day. Needless to say he now doesnt have CM on his priority travel list. What other major area has road blocks ?

 

The chaotic situation at Immigration with people being basically forced to go the agent route or hire a "line sitter," what other province  suffers this ???

The re discovery of the TM 30 law dusted only off to create income

 

The buildings on Doi Suthep for the judiciary only stopped on completion ,there's more to come on this issue.I doubt they will be removed, why was that not stopped prior to construction ?

 

The ongoing crackdown on bars and restaurants closing times ,totally repressive to a tourism industry that without the Chinese would be on its knees.

 

Does anyone else get the feeling that there's an agenda for CM ?

 

 

[worgeordie]

Just been browsing through BahtSold and quite a few Guest Houses & small Hotels

up for sale,maybe trying to find a sucker,before they get closed down.

 

Seems the days of a freewheeling Thailand are over,welcome to another nanny state,

you cannot own a water gun,air rifle,dildo,vape,gamble,buy alcohol at certain times of

the day, there must be more things you cannot do or own and the list is getting longer.

the big one......land.

regards worgeordie

[moontang]

1 hour ago, Sparkles said:

Its yet another 'sinister' development for Chiang Mai.

 

The conditions now set to be legal in having a GH/small hotel are  impossible to meet."Green space" and "Parking" in Thepae Rd ????

 

Yesterday I was driving my car in and around the old  city most of the day.I went through 3 road blocks pulling over motor cyclists and judging by the numbered helmets  many were tourists.Not long ago a friend who has been coming to CM for decades was pulled over 3 times in one day. Needless to say he now doesnt have CM on his priority travel list. What other major area has road blocks ?

 

The chaotic situation at Immigration with people being basically forced to go the agent route or hire a "line sitter," what other province  suffers this ???

The re discovery of the TM 30 law dusted only off to create income

 

The buildings on Doi Suthep for the judiciary only stopped on completion ,there's more to come on this issue.I doubt they will be removed, why was that not stopped prior to construction ?

 

The ongoing crackdown on bars and restaurants closing times ,totally repressive to a tourism industry that without the Chinese would be on its knees.

 

Does anyone else get the feeling that there's an agenda for CM ?

 

 

the friction between BKK must be worse than most are aware.  Even things like the excessively sloppy trash service brings the issue to mind.  I live in another secondary city, that shall remain nameless, but Immigration is a total walk in the park (for legitimates), and while they do TM30, it was very easy for my landlord to do it.  My only concern is that people coming here just for immigration business will spoil the party.  As far as drinking laws...some of the mom and pops don't even open until five, but then again, they are trading till four am.  Police don't bat an eye.  If they did stop, it would likely be for a beer.  Several nightclubs open till 3.  So maybe there are reasons for CM, but certainly no excuse for a sorry-arse excuse of a party town.

Edited June 9, 2018 by moontang

[heybruce]

On 6/8/2018 at 3:05 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO, though not on the subject of the OP, guest house owners for too long got used to hordes of western bagpackers that stayed in badly run, unattractive, poor quality dumps, because it was part of the "adventure". They never did anything to improve their run down hovels, or provide a good service because there were always more coming.

Seems things have changed, but they either don't want to, or can't afford to improve their places to cater for a more discerning guest demographic.

 

I have on a couple of occasions stayed at a local guesthouse in C M. The interior is run down, the place is full of rubbish, the back yard a disaster area. It costs little to put some bright paint on the walls, and nothing but energy to clean up the rubbish and make the place attractive. As it's in a very good location, I'd love to buy it as I could, for little cost, make it a very popular place to stay. A real pity, but I doubt the people that run it even realise how off putting the rubbish is.

The guesthouses in Chiang Mai I've stayed in were clean, comfortable, conveniently located and cost a fraction of what a dingy hotel room cost. 

 

I'm sure you can find "poor quality dumps" to stay in if you insist on paying as little as possible, but you can do much better and still save a lot of money by staying in one of the many nice guesthouses instead of a hotel.  Or you could not too long ago, apparently the government is trying to shut down this option.

[ZeVonderBearz]

On 6/7/2018 at 6:34 PM, happy chappie said:

Good news for the big boys then.wipe out the competition and Airbnb and stick the rentals up.

Most who visit this town won't have the funds to stay at the big boys. Expect tourist numbers to fall. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:55 PM, worgeordie said:

Just been browsing through BahtSold and quite a few Guest Houses & small Hotels

up for sale,maybe trying to find a sucker,before they get closed down.

 

Seems the days of a freewheeling Thailand are over,welcome to another nanny state,

you cannot own a water gun,air rifle,dildo,vape,gamble,buy alcohol at certain times of

the day, there must be more things you cannot do or own and the list is getting longer.

the big one......land.

regards worgeordie

There is little left of the easy living country I first came to decades ago. Farangs were living here on visa runs and spending money- everyone was reasonably happy.

The rot set in with Thaksin, and LOS never found its mojo again.

Now it seems they want a Singapore like country, but that's not going to happen. All they are doing is upsetting everyone.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, ZeVonderBearz said:

Most who visit this town won't have the funds to stay at the big boys. Expect tourist numbers to fall. 

I expect a new order to have been established by next high season. The present situation will make certain people lose money and that won't be tolerated. Imagine the usual suspects looking for tea money from a guest house that was just fined for not having parking or some other stupidity.