Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I never said the EU were desperate to do a deal. I said the EU were desperate to keep the UK in the EU.

 

Hence all the noise about SM & CU and the ECJ and anything is unacceptable to the EU.

 

There is no deal to be had, as far as the EU is concerned. Only capitulation to Brussels and the ECJ is acceptable.

 

Another one that is inflicted with the virus that affects so many remainers.

 

English comprehension disease.

Which, as it is obvious, would be the best solution. Remain is by far the best outcome for the UK, and the younger generation would not have to pay for the folly..  But for many Brexiteers, they suffer from English comprehension disease. Or, like J R-M think that their business interests would benefit from forcing through Brexit. 

 

 

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Which, as it is obvious, would be the best solution. Remain is by far the best outcome for the UK,

History will be the judge of that.

 

Not remainers ranting on a forum ??

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

History will be the judge of that

 don't the same apply for the remain option?

Why are you willing to let history judge the exit results but not willing to remain and let history judge the remain results?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I think that even the most ardent Brexiteers are now realising the whole thing is a mess and ain't going to end well for anyone. Also, at this moment in history we need the support of the EU, and they need ours for the inevitable fight with Trump and his trade war.

 

Come on guys, time to kiss and make up and call the whole thing off.

Call it off 'cos of Trump? Reasons for remain getting stranger by the day.

[Rally123]

21 hours ago, Spidey said:

Furthermore, statistics show that, in a car crash, the passenger is more likely to sustain injuries than the driver.

 

21 hours ago, Spidey said:

With the Brexit negotiations, the EU is firmly in the driving seat and we are just the passenger.

You surely can't be trying to compare road traffic accident statistics to Brexit, surely?  

[nauseus]

51 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Please decide. You can’t say the EU is desperate to have a deal while at the same time complaining the EU doesn’t want to negotiate. 

Why not? The EU won't admit desperation. But they know their first budget ante up without the UK will be trouble.  ?

[Rally123]

And

Quote

 

As for continuing contributions by an independent Britain, Swiss and Norwegian examples show that the UK would achieve substantial net savings.

SWISS CASE STUDY:

Official Swiss government figures conclude that through their trade agreements with the EU, the Swiss pay the EU under 600 million Swiss Francs a year, but enjoy virtually free access to the EU market. The Swiss have estimated that full EU membership would cost Switzerland net payments of 3.4 billion Swiss francs a year.

NORWAY CASE STUDY:

Norway only had to make relatively few changes to its laws to make its products eligible for the EU marketplace. In 2009, the Norwegian Mission to the EU estimated that Norway’s total financial contribution linked to their EEA (European Economic Area) agreement is some 340 mn Euros a years, of which some 110mn Euros are contributions related to the participation in various EU programmes. However, this is a fraction of the gross annual cost that Britain must pay for EU membership which is now £18.4bn, or £51mn a day.

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-United-Kingdom-want-to-leave-the-European-Union

[The Renegade]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 don't the same apply for the remain option?

 

Of course it does.

 

It is remainers who refuse to accept that there can be any other outcome.

 

It is laughable, it highlights exactly what they are, scared little lambs.

 

14 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Why are you willing to let history judge the exit results but not willing to remain and let history judge the remain results?

1. Because a democratic referendum was held and more people voted to leave than to remain.

 

2. In my adulthood, I have watched the UK going downhill year after year whilst being a member of the EU.

 

And whilst I am not blaming the EU for this, they are certainly to blame in some area's. Remaining is not going to make the UK any better. 

 

Now back to the States with you tonto.

 

 

[The Renegade]

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Call it off 'cos of Trump? Reasons for remain getting stranger by the day.

Think that comes under '' Straw clutching ''??

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It is laughable, it highlights exactly what they are, scared little lambs.

 no more scared than you are to remain.

 

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

1. Because a democratic referendum was held and more people voted to leave than to remain.

such an important decision decided by such a small margin. What could go wrong with that? 

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It is laughable, it highlights exactly what they are, scared little lambs.

 Now that all the facts are known why not hold another referendum?

Is it possible that you are the "scared litle lamb"?

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Now back to the States with you tonto.

Name calling is the refuge of the dim witted.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

no more scared than you are to remain.

 

???

 

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

such an important decision decided by such a small margin. What could go wrong with that? 

It was backed up by 4 to 1 in a Parliamentary vote to trigger Article 50. The Referendum is now a moot point.

 

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Now that all the facts are known why not hold another referendum?

All the facts are NOT KNOWN. Predictions and models are not facts

 

Another epic fail.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

???

 A persuasive argument

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

It was backed up by 4 to 1 in a Parliamentary vote to trigger Article 50. The Referendum is now a moot point.

First you refer to the referendum, then change to parliamentary procedure. 

??????? 

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

All the facts are NOT KNOWN. Predictions and models are not facts

 Many. Many, many  more fact are known now than were known then

and as far as predictions and model are concerned , the same applies to both sides.

[The Renegade]

Just now, sirineou said:

Many. Many, many  more fact are known now than were known then

List just 5 of these facts, backed up with independent sources 

 

 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

I never said the EU were desperate to do a deal. I said the EU were desperate to keep the UK in the EU.

 

Hence all the noise about SM & CU and the ECJ and anything is unacceptable to the EU.

 

There is no deal to be had, as far as the EU is concerned. Only capitulation to Brussels and the ECJ is acceptable.

 

Another one that is inflicted with the virus that affects so many remainers.

 

English comprehension disease.

Sure.We're  the ones who don't understand what desperate means. And  you know the EU is desperate because they don't budge. So what's the difference between side that is completely confident in its position and doesn't budge and one that is desperate and doesn't budge. How exactly do you tell one from the other? Telepathy?

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

List just 5 of these facts, backed up with independent sources 

 

 

  The negotiation taking place regarding the type of Brexit are factual and not  a thought experiment. The effect on border controls are fact.

    Why not put a hold  on the process, now that you know the "facts" concerning the form that brexit will take . Is it possible that you are "a scared litle lamb" and afraid of an informed decision?

[bristolboy]

And now a few words from Margaret Thatcher:

"Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers — visible or invisible — giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of 300 million of the world’s wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than the United States."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/world/europe/uk-margaret-thatcher-files.html

 

She also got it right in rejecting the Euro.

 

.

[candide]

59 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 A persuasive argument

First you refer to the referendum, then change to parliamentary procedure. 

??????? 

 Many. Many, many  more fact are known now than were known then

and as far as predictions and model are concerned , the same applies to both sides.

Uh! Are there forecasts and models by reputed economists that predict a positive outcome for Brexit, and in particular hard Brexit? I did not know that.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

 A persuasive argument

First you refer to the referendum, then change to parliamentary procedure. 

??????? 

 Many. Many, many  more fact are known now than were known then

and as far as predictions and model are concerned , the same applies to both sides.

 

Many more facts are know now than were known, released or publicised about the 1975 referendum.

 

In 1975 I voted to join the EEC. I did not know many of the facts.

 

In 2016 I voted to leave the EU. I knew FAR more facts in 2016 than I did in 1975.

 

Why would that be?

 

In 1975 personal computers at an affordable price simply were not available. The internet did not exist at all. Any information came from the TV, Radio, newspapers, magazines etc. There were no mobile phones or social media.

 

If you wanted to talk to a friend you used a landline telephone or wrote a letter by hand and posted it, then waited for a reply. If the addressee was offshore you used airmail and waited longer.

 

Nowadays information is only a click or two away though you have to decide if it is real or fake news.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, The Renegade said:

You are of course correct, why should they ?

 

The other side of the coin is why are they desperate to keep the UK shackled to Brussels, the ECJ and keep handing over £ Billions for the privilege.

 

Must be a reason.

Altruism 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

 

Many more facts are know now than were known, released or publicised about the 1975 referendum.

 

In 1975 I voted to join the EEC. I did not know many of the facts.

 

In 2016 I voted to leave the EU. I knew FAR more facts in 2016 than I did in 1975.

 

Why would that be?

 

In 1975 personal computers at an affordable price simply were not available. The internet did not exist at all. Any information came from the TV, Radio, newspapers, magazines etc. There were no mobile phones or social media.

 

If you wanted to talk to a friend you used a landline telephone or wrote a letter by hand and posted it, then waited for a reply. If the addressee was offshore you used airmail and waited longer.

 

Nowadays information is only a click or two away though you have to decide if it is real or fake news.

 That may be so ,

but if after the 1975 referendum and before you joined, more facts came to light that were not known or considered in the 1975 referendum, would you not want the option to reconsider? 

From previous posts I know you to  be a reasonable man, and as such  I think you would. So why not now?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

History will be the judge of that.

 

Not remainers ranting on a forum ??

The trivial non tangible upsides are not worth the major real risks. Forget it. The poor voted for Brexit. The successful voted remain. That should give you pause.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Call it off 'cos of Trump? Reasons for remain getting stranger by the day.

I know which third of the world I prefer to be allied with.

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Many more facts are know now than were known, released or publicised about the 1975 referendum.

 

In 1975 I voted to join the EEC. I did not know many of the facts.

 

In 2016 I voted to leave the EU. I knew FAR more facts in 2016 than I did in 1975.

 

Why would that be?

 

In 1975 personal computers at an affordable price simply were not available. The internet did not exist at all. Any information came from the TV, Radio, newspapers, magazines etc. There were no mobile phones or social media.

 

If you wanted to talk to a friend you used a landline telephone or wrote a letter by hand and posted it, then waited for a reply. If the addressee was offshore you used airmail and waited longer.

 

Nowadays information is only a click or two away though you have to decide if it is real or fake news.

 

you are right about availability of info now compared to before

but also take into account that in 2016 you were a lot older and presumably wiser than in 1975.

 

(beside the point/thread but your history lesson re 1975 is off,

 I used ARPANET/Internet in the late 70s, where I come from we had mobile phones in the 70s,

 also; I used social media heavily in the late 70s )

 

[Grouse]

What is it about English seaside towns and fishing ports. Came down to Brixham for a few pints listening to seagulls followed by some cod and chips. God, this place is dog rough! I've never seen so many pig ugly, obese, tattooed, thugs in my life and that's just the women. The trawler is covered with pro Brexit paper noise as one would predict. I'm off.

[Chomper Higgot]

45 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Many more facts are know now than were known, released or publicised about the 1975 referendum.

 

In 1975 I voted to join the EEC. I did not know many of the facts.

 

In 2016 I voted to leave the EU. I knew FAR more facts in 2016 than I did in 1975.

 

Why would that be?

 

In 1975 personal computers at an affordable price simply were not available. The internet did not exist at all. Any information came from the TV, Radio, newspapers, magazines etc. There were no mobile phones or social media.

 

If you wanted to talk to a friend you used a landline telephone or wrote a letter by hand and posted it, then waited for a reply. If the addressee was offshore you used airmail and waited longer.

 

Nowadays information is only a click or two away though you have to decide if it is real or fake news.

It’s not the quantity of information that matters, it’s the quality.

 

The number of Brexiteers who make comments betraying their total lack of understanding of the UK’s relationship to the EU, or indeed how British Parliamentary democracy works is shocking.

 

Ignorance might be one explanation, but the common reference to points of complete fallacy suggests misinformation is the culprit.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not the quantity of information that matters, it’s the quality.

 

The number of Brexiteers who’s comments betraying their total lack of understanding of the UK’s relationship to the EU, or indeed how British Parliamentary democracy works is shocking.

 

Ignorance might be one explanation, but the common reference to points of complete fallacy suggests misinformation is the culprit.

 

man,

the lack of understanding of the formalities re the UK parliamentary system, the EU, the EEA, the EFTA, the WTO 

is pretty much spread equally across remainers and leavers

 

but, in order to secure that thaivisa is entertaining, lack of knowledge does not inhibit strong opinions

 

[Spidey]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 3:18 PM, bristolboy said:

And you can drive a car into a wall and not be able to know exactly the extent of what your injuries will be. But believing there may not be any at all is ludicrous..

 

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 3:22 PM, Rally123 said:

All depends on how fast you hit the wall at. That is why negotiations are taking place. To find out how to avoid injuries to both sides.

 

4 hours ago, Rally123 said:

 

You surely can't be trying to compare road traffic accident statistics to Brexit, surely?  

Just replying to your post. 555

[Spidey]

14 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You.

 

 

I thought I made that clear.

 

Nobody in any negotiation has "no cards".

 

Cameron certainly  left May with a suspect deck..... and she has done her best to fold.

Apart from insulting people (as in keyboard warrior) you still are unable to quote one card that we do hold.

[nontabury]

12 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Wonder who produced all the hate.
The referendum was almost 50:50.
There must be compromises, from both sides.
Or even more division of society, and in the end civil war or what?

You say the referendum was Almost 50:50,when the fact is the result was in favour of Brexit. So Who produced the hate,well that’s an easy one. Those remainers who refuse to accept the result of a democratic decision of the British  people. Instead trying to label all those who voted to exit the hated E.U. as uneducated morons or people with one leg in the grave.

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I know which third of the world I prefer to be allied with.

Let's get back to the golf.