BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[blackhorse]

Yes, but the existing system, whereby the Embassy certifies incomes will no longer be available after the end of this year as the Embassy will no longer issue the certification letters.
 
There needs to be some alternative mechanism that we can use to prove our incomes, otherwise the income method will no longer be available, which would be against the spirit of the Thai Immigration Act, which allows bank deposit, regular income deposit or a combination.  To remove the income method would require an amendment to the law - and would, presumably, apply to all nationalities, not just UK ex-pats.

There is an alternative method in place. All the embassy has to do is adopt the statutory declaration used by others

The applicant writes his own deceleration of income. Embassy witnesses his SIGNATURE only and then stamp it.

Why won't the brits use this simple work around?

[thetefldon]

Just now, xylophone said:

Doesn't seem to be the case Bob! 

Why is that then.....have I missed something....it is a big thread

[BobBKK]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Doesn't seem to be the case Bob! 

TIT I guess but it makes no sense if you have foreign currency coming into your THAI bank with a THAI bank book.

[doctormann]

16 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Hoping 65k + into a Thai account would be enough proof?

You would think that proof of regular monthly deposits into a Thai bank, which could be proved by certification of the account by the bank, would be enough.  After all, how hard could this be!  It might make temporary difficulties for those who have not been making regular transfers, of course.  

 

The problem, as it stands, is that Immigration are insisting on a certification from the Embassy - or a signed affirmation if you are from USA or Oz.  What we need here is a bit of flexibility on behalf of Immigration - and we need to be assured that the banks will actually agree to produce the appropriate statements.

 

We also don't know, if this alternative becomes reality, if Immigration will demand to see 12 months' worth of deposits or only 3 months'.  There is no requirement that anyone needs to have 800k/400k in the bank PLUS evidence of a regular income.  Most of us who have been using the income method probably do not keep a large balance in our Thai accounts.  I, for one, prefer to have my money working for me somewhere that at least accrues some interest.

Edited October 13, 2018 by doctormann
typo

[BobBKK]

7 minutes ago, thetefldon said:

I am sure it will be......what I would like to know is how it is going to need presenting that is what evidence they will need....e.g copy of passbook, bank statements, letter from bank, FX transactions etc

But if they have a THAI bank book - there in front of them?  detailing the payments?  they want blood?  it's a farce

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

But if they have a THAI bank book - there in front of them?  detailing the payments?  they want blood?  it's a farce

Errrrrm yes, a pension is for life but they still want a confirmation of your pension every year, this is Thailand, you want logic ?

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, doctormann said:

You would think that proof of regular monthly deposits into a Thai bank, which could be proved by certification of the account by the bank, would be enough. //

This would prove nothing about your incomes. Someone could have 65'000B only and "recycle" it every month to show a monthly 65'000 input on his bank account. Immigration Officer are not (so?) stupid.

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Errrrrm yes, a pension is for life but they still want a confirmation of your pension every year, this is Thailand, you want logic ?

Not every one has pension(s), and even does with pension often use another source of revenues to reach the 65'000B. Nothing guaranteed for life.

[thetefldon]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

This would prove nothing about your incomes. Someone could have 65'000B only and "recycle" it every month to show a monthly 65'000 input on his bank account. Immigration Officer are not (so?) stupid.

Nah, my transfers clearly say International transfer on my Bangkok Bank account statement

[doctormann]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

This would prove nothing about your incomes. Someone could have 65'000B only and "recycle" it every month to show a monthly 65'000 input on his bank account. Immigration Officer are not (so?) stupid.

The bank book would show that the regular deposits were coming from international transfers.  Unless you are suggesting that the same 65k is being constantly switched between a foreign account and a Thai account, I don't see this as a problem.  

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, thetefldon said:

Nah, my transfers clearly say International transfer on my Bangkok Bank account statement

That changes nothing, except maybe a few fees to pay. What would prevent you to send back home these 65'000B to resend them next month in Thailand?

[doctormann]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

That changes nothing, except maybe a few fees to pay. What would prevent you to send back home these 65'000B to resend them next month in Thailand?

Because the bank book would also detail the transfer of the 65k OUT of Thailand.  

You are right, Immigration officers are not 'so' stupid as to be fooled by this!

[thetefldon]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

That changes nothing, except maybe a few fees to pay. What would prevent you to send back home these 65'000B to resend them next month in Thailand?

Of course it does, fX rates vary and the amount I send each month does too.

Edited October 13, 2018 by thetefldon

[doctormann]

This is getting a bit silly now.  No real point in discussing the finer points of how this would work when, currently, the only thing that Immigration will accept as proof of income is a statement from your Embassy!

[dick dasterdly]

42 minutes ago, thetefldon said:

Thanks for those replies;

1. My extension is for renewal in February 2019.

2. Appreciate regs have not changed

 

I just want to know how we prove the income.  Thank you

My extension for renewal is also due in Feb. '19.

 

We are lucky as the brit. embassy will continue to supply the required proof of income letters for applications received until Dec. 12 - and I gather Thai Immigration will accept these letters as long as they were issued within the previous 6 months.

 

So for those of us who need to renew our extensions before June '19, we should be ok until the following year.

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Because the bank book would also detail the transfer of the 65k OUT of Thailand.  

No it will not, as retiree's account usually do not allow transfer outside Thailand. You have to take the money out of the bank and send it by another way. No trace on the bankbook. ????

[thetefldon]

1 minute ago, doctormann said:

This is getting a bit silly now.  No real point in discussing the finer points of how this would work when, currently, the only thing that Immigration will accept as proof of income is a statement from your Embassy!

Totally agree just came for some advice......I should know better. Thanks for your input mind.

[blackhorse]

This is getting a bit silly now.  No real point in discussing the finer points of how this would work when, currently, the only thing that Immigration will accept as proof of income is a statement from your Embassy!

You nailed it. People becoming excited about what may happen if the brits strong [emoji123] arm the Thais into change. It's hilarious

[billd766]

48 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

There is an alternative method in place. All the embassy has to do is adopt the statutory declaration used by others

The applicant writes his own deceleration of income. Embassy witnesses his SIGNATURE only and then stamp it.

Why won't the brits use this simple work around?

 

Probably because the UK embassy does want the smelly hoi poloi to litter up their tiny embassy and to make them do some to for a living.

[doctormann]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No it will not, as retiree's account usually do not allow transfer outside Thailand. You have to take the money out of the bank and send it by another way. No trace on the bankbook. ????

Not true.  Check Kasikorn Gobal Fund Transfer.

You can export funds from a savings account using GFS and this would certainly show up on your bank book as money leaving the account.  There would be a code that would identify the transaction as international.

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

You would think that proof of regular monthly deposits into a Thai bank, which could be proved by certification of the account by the bank, would be enough.  After all, how hard could this be!  It might make temporary difficulties for those who have not been making regular transfers, of course.  

 

 

Not to mention many people who prefer to spend their income as needed (and for many, not the full 65k per month) from their foreign accounts. For me, card spending makes up about 1/2 of my monthly spend. This would return expats to the dark ages, requiring all their spending to be from a Thai bank account. Sure, if it needs to be done it shall be done, but it would be an inconvenience many of us would rather do without.

Edited October 13, 2018 by tropo

[David Walden]

4 hours ago, blackhorse said:

Not sure what you mean. There already is a system in place

 

The system is already in place, all you need is Bt800,000 in usable funds either in Thailand or in your home country if you are making the application there in a bank.  Not rocket science.  If you have either of these options which are really the only 2 options, there is no need for Embassies to get involved in any way what so ever.  If you have investment dividends somehow you will need to put your money into a bank account.  To complicated for Thai immigration, it's up to you to make it simple.  Any other method is clearly becoming very suspect.

   Already there will be ways coming to light from all sorts people arriving with cock eyed plans.  Like one I know about already, borrow Bt800.000 from a bank long term, you pay 10% interest. Use the borrowed money as security and leave at the bank with a pre-signed withdraw form to be co-signed by a bank officer if you die.  For this service you are really paying Bt80,000 per year for a bank book to show Immigration, you may get 1% interest on this deposit if you are lucky.  This is really a good idea for the banks they can lend out the same Bt800,000 a hundred time over and over again and none of the money ever leaves the bank, it's still there.  Anyone interest in starting a bank in Thailand?  Send qualification to me.  Yes and a very honest well known bank.  Thailand is not interest where the money comes from it just needs to be there "in a bank" 

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, doctormann said:

Not true.  Check Kasikorn Gobal Fund Transfer.

You can export funds from a savings account using GFS and this would certainly show up on your bank book as money leaving the account.  There would be a code that would identify the transaction as international.

My experience with KasikornBank Pattaya is that they will not allow you to transfer money "from" Thailand without proof that you transferred it before "to" Thailand.

Problem then is that when you send money "to" Thailand, they will not give you any proof for an amount as small as 65'000B. For the Kasikorn branch near Tukcom, you need 1'000'000 baht minimum to get this attestation/proof. (Only one agency in Pattaya allowed to transfer abroad. Not the one near Tukcom)

Also what I meant before about retirees' accounts is that they don't have "transfer to abroad account" activated on the online Kbank website. You need a work permit for that. (or at least what they told me).

[Shoeless Joe]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Also what I meant before about retirees' accounts...

What is a "retiree's account" please?

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[Pattaya46]

7 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

What is a "retiree's account" please?

Sorry if not clear. Not an account special for retirees, but I meant that there are 2 big types of accounts; one being for people with Work Permit, the second for other people, including retirees. Main differences are on the possibility to get Credit card and... bank transfer towards a foreign account.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, doctormann said:

Not true.  Check Kasikorn Gobal Fund Transfer.

You can export funds from a savings account using GFS and this would certainly show up on your bank book as money leaving the account.  There would be a code that would identify the transaction as international.

They won't do it that way, then - as it would give the applicant's game away. 

 

Whatever barriers exist, the market would quickly overcome them if "showing money coming in to your account" becomes the new standard, replacing embassy-letters (I am doubtful).  Such a system could randomize withdrawal-days and amounts, to make it look like "real spending" etc. 

 

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

Like one I know about already, borrow Bt800.000 from a bank long term, you pay 10% interest. Use the borrowed money as security and leave at the bank with a pre-signed withdraw form to be co-signed by a bank officer if you die.  For this service you are really paying Bt80,000 per year for a bank book to show Immigration, you may get 1% interest on this deposit if you are lucky. 

Interesting (no pun intended), but it costs more than agent-fees for a year.  If only for 3 months, it's closer, though.  Reduce the term, and trim the interest-rate a bit, and it could fly.  Simpler than a "money rotator" system, for sure.

[Jingthing]

The system is already in place, all you need is Bt800,000 in usable funds either in Thailand or in your home country if you are making the application there in a bank.  Not rocket science.  If you have either of these options which are really the only 2 options, there is no need for Embassies to get involved in any way what so ever.  If you have investment dividends somehow you will need to put your money into a bank account.  To complicated for Thai immigration, it's up to you to make it simple.  Any other method is clearly becoming very suspect.
   Already there will be ways coming to light from all sorts people arriving with cock eyed plans.  Like one I know about already, borrow Bt800.000 from a bank long term, you pay 10% interest. Use the borrowed money as security and leave at the bank with a pre-signed withdraw form to be co-signed by a bank officer if you die.  For this service you are really paying Bt80,000 per year for a bank book to show Immigration, you may get 1% interest on this deposit if you are lucky.  This is really a good idea for the banks they can lend out the same Bt800,000 a hundred time over and over again and none of the money ever leaves the bank, it's still there.  Anyone interest in starting a bank in Thailand?  Send qualification to me.  Yes and a very honest well known bank.  Thailand is not interest where the money comes from it just needs to be there "in a bank" 

You can't get retirement extensions based on funds outside Thailand. Only in Thailand. You can get an OA visa that way but must apply in your home country.

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[Pattaya46]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You can't get retirement extensions based on funds outside Thailand.

You should edit that... IMHO

[Jingthing]

You should edit that... IMHO

I was talking about bank account method. Obviously. Responding to another post that posted odd info about the bank account method.

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[David Walden]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You can't get retirement extensions based on funds outside Thailand. Only in Thailand. You can get an OA visa that way but must apply in your home country.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Complete and utter rubbish.   I have retirement multi entry visa  "O" issued from the Thai Embassy in Canberra Australia.  it cost $275.  The same visa is available from most western countries Thai Embassy world wide. But you have to have the money in a bank in real cash.

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa  here are the details.