Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

None of you or your personal dramas matter to your embassies, of course myself included.

 

If you get arrested or have some major mishap how involved will the embassy be in assisting you? None. If your family member goes missing in a foreign country what will they do? Nothing. Because that is not the role of embassies. The essential role is to represent the positions and agenda of a particular nation. What sort of consular roles they may take on is up to the consulate.

 

The British embassy is no longer going to serve as the foil for fraud. The verification really can only be done for govt pensions.

 

In reality only pensions can be verified. It doesn't matter if you have 2 billion in investments today throwing off 2 million pounds. If tomorrow the market crashed, you might not make that 65k. But the Thai cops are not that smart and let everyone slide seeing 65k of income hit your bank account monthly. Presumably. One quick way to spot check everyone is to have everyone bring in their statements from their Thai banks. If they do not then the visa is cancelled immediately. They are overstay.

 

My hunch is 50% of you Brits don't have the 65k or the 800 or the 400! That's what all the crying is really about

 

 

Then at least verify the pensions! 

Income method requires 65K.

COMBINATION method requires any level of income PLUS banked money totaling at least 800K.

Under current rules you don't need 65K to use one of the income methods.

One of income methods is the combination method.

Seems to be ignored by the Brit embassy people. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Jingthing

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, TeaMonkey said:

We can’t assume anything until we get clear written guidance from Thai immigration ????

 

At at the moment it will be 400/800k in a bank account only.

 

Not yet, Would that not be starting around the turn of the year?

[david555]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A good example of how the status quo is A-OK. Stuff happens. Exchange rates change. The status quo allows for at least some flexibility to switch your planned method.

 

I'm going to repeat a suggestion here that doesn't seem popular but I still think makes massive sense.

 

For pensioners from all countries that have easily provable pensions for life from their governments, I suggest the Thais offer a fast pass lifetime service for such income streams. In other words, a place you go to show your documents proving the lifetime pension, then you get some kind of card good for life that can be used for the income or combo method. No embassy letters anymore if all you want to do is show that pension. No forced imports as the Brits might be starting with their games. 

 

Of the people on retirement extensions, I think such a program would be good (for life) for a significant  percentage of them. What percentage? I don't know. It seems to me easily at least 25 percent. 

 

This is something most other nations having retirement programs for foreigners do. They treat lifetime government issued pensions a special way, typically to be proven only ONCE for life.

That is almost similar as my Gov. pension stated on the attestification with seal ,that I yearly ask from them , showing my monthly money I get from that day on until my life ends , but even that is something that my E.U embassy also do not certifies , same excuse as B.E. emb. , strange one gov service does not certify their fellow gov. services ..

[ozmeldo]

16 minutes ago, digger70 said:

I know that ,but as I said it's to much trouble for me so that's why I take the THB 800000 one

It's because in reality they don't have it. That's the truth of the matter. Everyone's acting like Snow White

 

[flynn]

Could be a good business opportunity for the money lenders when they crack down on the visa agents,,,,


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[meechai]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Again, there is no loophole other than your wild conspiracy theory that people using the income method are somehow getting free medical. People using the deposit method are all paying for their medical emergencies.

 

Step away from the beer

 

I never said any such thing about free medical.

 

You think if an expat here on a promise he has X amount income in another country...dies

after a large medical bill run up...Money will appear for Thailand?

 

No conspiracy just common sense...Yeah I Know TIT but...ask around

the folks working with  expat hospice will tell you how bad it has gotten.

 

Maybe your not a potential prob...you want to vouch for everyone else?

[ozmeldo]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Then at least verify the pensions! 

Income method requires 65K.

COMBINATION method requires any level of income PLUS banked money totaling at least 800K.

Under current rules you don't need 65K to use one of the income methods.

One of income methods is the combination method.

Seems to be ignored by the Brit embassy people. 

I think it's all done. British, US, Oz etc.

 

I understand Brits whinging about it but if they think that:

A the embassy will capitulate

B in their capitulation they will then verify govt pensions

 

Well, that would be madness

 

Combination is just as complicated to verify, maybe more. If I were Thai immigration I'd just make everyone do the 400/800. Think of the paperwork it will cut thru.

 

I've always done the 800. It's simple, uncomplicated, honest

My extension takes 15 mins

[digger70]

6 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

It's because in reality they don't have it. That's the truth of the matter. Everyone's acting like Snow White

 

Like I said before If they can't scrape that together they shouldn't  be here.

[ozmeldo]

6 minutes ago, flynn said:

Could be a good business opportunity for the money lenders when they crack down on the visa agents,,,,


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

At least your one of the few honest folks here - most don't have the money. Never did.

[meechai]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

Utter rubbish, you do not know what you are talking about.

As for an emergency I can have in access of $1,000,000 transferred to my Thai bank account within 12 hours.

Yeah  it is always the 2015-2017  newbies who think they have all the answers

Hang in there newb

 

Like  the classic..."Im rich & can have $$$ here in hours"...Go Fund Me?....If you have $$$ this 400/800k is peanuts....step up

Edited October 13, 2018 by meechai

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

's because in reality they don't have it. That's the truth of the matter. Everyone's acting like Snow White

I got it and a lot more- and I know plenty that also have it- Many of us will continue to use the monthly system  because that is what the Thai Police Order says.  I have no intention of  placing 800K in a Thai Bank Account unless absolutely forced to do so but at present there are other options.

 

BE can do what they want but  it is up to Thai Imm what they will accept.  Plenty of time for them to figure it out. British citizens can still have the  Income Form work for them until earl June 2019.

[crazykopite]

OMG 250 letters per month at over 2,000 baht for each one is a lot of money over half a million baht every month that’s a hell of a profit for 250 pieces of paper the person stamping the letter must be on a hell of a wage .

[jesimps]

28 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

Exactly! Its very strange all this uproar when the simple rules still remain

 

very ironic. foriegner constantly complain on Thailand and corruption but when the clampdown of lawbreaking hits them its very different.

 

Its not really that much. 400 or 800k.

take away the cost of a flight home, a hospital stay or 2, and a years expense you not left with much. 

 

Thailand suffered long enough the sexpats and paedos and guys wandering around Pattaya scratching the bottom of the pocket for 8baht for baht bus.

 

Sounds like Immigrations found out they are staying on false pretenses, have a dodgy income OR no income.

its all on them if they havent had a sound plan and budget to live in Thailand.

 

I will not be suprised if Thai IMMs has simply asked the BE for more honest transparent proofs of income and being the lazy bสstสrds they are, the embassy want nothing to do with it.

 

Cheesus! I bet you were really popular in school. Can see you going to the teacher and dropping all your classmates in it. Is your rear end still smarting from getting your ass kicked so often?

 

This isn't about sexpats and paedos, it's about people, most of whom are here legally and have families here, not being able to afford to leave 800,000 baht laying in a bank, finding themselves between a rock and a hard place. Thai immigrations are stating that the embassy letter is mandatory and the BE, at least, refusing to issue one. Until Thai immigration amends the rules, or the BE resumes issuing the letter, people are bound to be concerned. Most of us have been staying here quite legally, providing whatever's asked for, suddenly it's all up in the air. Those of us who've played the game deserve some guidance, not the sort of stupid, smug posts that you've been making lately. By the way, your username is very appropriate.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, meechai said:

Yeah  it is always the 2015-2017  newbies who think they have all the answers

Hang in there newb

What you only been here since 2015-2017, that explains why you do not know anything and are not willing to listen.

Just for your information I have been here since 2002 and I have been married to a Thai since 2005 and I am on a Marriage visa with a registered business here and a work permit.

See you know nothing.

 

[rosst]

I am pleased that I saw the changing attitude three years ago and I chose the Philippines. 

Is it as good, for me yes because I have the right partner, do I miss Thailand, yes I do and go back for holiday in a house I own (via the wife of a friend) for a couple of months each year. 

Immigration policies and officers are very friendly, not for everyone but suits me nicely 

[Noreya]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Is the US letter a letter written and signed by the consulate or an affidavit signed by the citizen ?

 

Signed by the consulate

[thaitero]

Suggestion of BE will be good for Thailand.

Retiree who spends or at least imports 65 K monthly to Thailand is not too much to asked for..

 

This silly "Embassy letter" has always been a useless piece of paper which only cost people hassle and money to get it and do not proove anything. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by thaitero

[jesimps]

5 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

At least your one of the few honest folks here - most don't have the money. Never did.

Some weird folk on here. Unless you personally know every farang expat with a one year visa, how on earth can you make a statement like that? It's almost as though a few of the expats on here actually take great delight in others misery.

[meechai]

4 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

See you know nothing.

 

I know you have not a clue nor a$...or this would be no prob for you...Yet you can have $$$ here in hours....5555 yeah right

[flynn]

At least your one of the few honest folks here - most don't have the money. Never did.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jesimps]

3 minutes ago, thaitero said:

Suggestion of BE will be good for Thailand.

Retiree who spends or at least imports 65 K monthly to Thailand is not too much to asked for..

 

This silly "Embassy letter" has always been a useless piece of paper which only cost people hassle and money to get it and do not proove anything. 

Yes but as of this moment, the embassy letter is still mandatory if you're going the monthly income route. THAT's what the kerfuffle's about.

[crazykopite]

6 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Like I said before If they can't scrape that together they shouldn't  be here.

Digger70 what are you on 40,000 per month or 65,000 per month because that’s a hell of a difference and the same is either 400,000 or 800,000 I guarantee that my wife who is a farang like myself spends less than most Thai woman yet we have to show either 65,000 per month or 800,000 nobody in 13 years of living here has ever been able to explain why such a big difference even the immigration officer who I got to know on a friendly basis can only shrug his shoulders . I am fortunate that I have the income but there are many who scrape the barrel especially now due to very poor exchange rates 13 years ago,it was 74 baht to the £ today you are extremely lucky to get 42 to the £ ☹️

[4evermaat]

19 minutes ago, sambum said:

Because, as already stated, other Embassies have not been asked to verify the information!

 

For instance, (As far as I know) the American system involves the applicant signing the letter and swearing under oath that the details are correct - the British letter is not signed by the applicant, it is signed by a member of the Embassy staff to say that the applicant has given them proof of income of XXXXXX British pounds per year (which has to be the equivalent of 65,000 baht a month, or 800,000 baht a year)

 

Actually the affidavits are identical across all consulates: the notary verifies the identity of the signor, not the contents of the affidavit. 

 

Some of the Brit consulate staff may have informally requested additional docs for certain affidavits e.g. pension/bank statements for the income affidavit as a pre-requisite to the notary.  No notary has to sign any document they believe is fraudulent......but

 

No notary really desires to get involved in verifying contents; and legally they wouldn't want to.  You only verify things you witness personally, such as a signature on a piece of paper. 

 

But some Thai officials want full verification from the notary.... which is actually the job of the person's accepting the notarized docs (Thai immigration) .  They'd have to contact the bank, pension provider, etc (overseas) and get authentication directly.   Usually an affidavit + seeing some local Thai bankbook/statement with 40/65/400/800k for x months would be more than sufficient proof.  

 

So because some Thai officials kept bugging UK embassy about verification that was beyond their legal jurisdiction, they decided to stop notarizing the income affidavit letter altogether.  A stupid, knee-jerk decision IMO, as expats may need that for numerous reasons OTHER than for Thai immigration....but not my call. 

 

In other news, other embassies that still notarize income affidavits (such as US embassy) may be willing to do so for any national. That's up to each individual consular. 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, thaitero said:

Suggestion of BE will be good for Thailand.

Retiree who spends or at least imports at least 65 K monthly to Thailand is not too much to asked for..

 

This silly "Embassy letter" has always been a useless piece of paper which only cost people hassle and money to get it and do not proove anything. 

but it is this 'silly embassy letter' that is demanded by IO. If the IO will accept a show of 65k a month in a Thai bank book they should officially say so and I would, by way of ATM, deposit this every month in my Thai bank but we hear only that nothing has changed.  

[Tracyb]

8 minutes ago, Noreya said:

Signed by the consulate

Actually, it is an affidavit filled in by the USA citizen which is then notarized by the Embassy/Consulate officer to certify the signature is that of the person named on the affidavit.  The officer does not certify the amount.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, thaitero said:

Suggestion of BE will be good for Thailand.

Retiree who spends or at least imports 65 K monthly to Thailand is not too much to asked for..

 

This silly "Embassy letter" has always been a useless piece of paper which only cost people hassle and money to get it and do not proove anything. 

Spending? Nothing about spending. You are making stuff up. 

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, meechai said:

I know you have not a clue nor a$...or this would be no prob for you...Yet you can have $$$ here in hours....5555 yeah right

I don't have a problem with either my money or anything else, I transfer money everyday and it takes under 12 hours to appear in my Thai bank account, that is all to do with business which you just don't seem to be able to understand. You just don't have a clue, you think you do but you do not

[Lovethailandelite]

Here is why the BE are giving the advice they are and why I believe there will simply be no response from Thai Immigration. Nothing has changed in these rules. There is NOTHING stating this income letter was ever indeed needed. They are correct in saying that. At the same time, they cannot be responsible for what local immigration offices want to impose. They can only state the written rules immigration are stating here.
There isn't even anything stating that this so called combination method was ever possible or indeed, and here is the big one, that income could remain in a foreign bank account. That rule simply doesn't exist. I took the extract out of the link below. Click the link to read the full document of what the BE is quoting. There is an option to change the text too English on the top right hand corner.
It has been a loophole which has been accepted but has now been closed.
The US consular service was in the exact same meetings as the Brits were in.
The US Embassy is still looking at the situation and will make a statement and decision in due course.

 

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form 2. Copy of applicant’s passport 3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or 4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook 5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4 stated above. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Yes but as of this moment, the embassy letter is still mandatory if you're going the monthly income route. THAT's what the kerfuffle's about.

Yes, and there should be an even bigger stink about the ill formed suggestion of the Brits based on misreading Thai immigration rules. They are proposing for income applications FULL IMPORT of the income, done monthly. Never required before for any of the options! Bank, income, or combo. I have to assume they just don't understand the implications of what they're pushing. 

 

It's not the Thais pushing for this massively negative change. It's the Brits. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Jingthing

[totally thaied up]

Just now, soalbundy said:

but it is this 'silly embassy letter' that is demanded by IO. If the IO will accept a show of 65k a month in a Thai bank book they should officially say so and I would, by way of ATM, deposit this every month in my Thai bank but we hear only that nothing has changed.  

It will come in time. You know how slow things can be here. This will have many channels to go through and I can imagine the paperwork building now in Thai Immigration. Unless they just do the 800/400K route (the easy way) or show 65/40K a month in a bank book, it is pretty easy if you got the money. Until the Police Order changes stating anything drastically different, unless the British Embassy does not do a turn around in some way, I can see no other way it can be done. It will bring a lot more work for the IO doing the job. They will have to search the bank books an I think, that would not make them happy searching through for all the deposits and adding them up!

 

Can you see that happening?