Denied entry to Thailand!

[Naam]

2 hours ago, lkv said:

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I'm betting the OP is a Brit and has copied the UK Ltd company model as his basis for a work vehicle, perhaps not the best move - using an umbrella company in HK might have been better.

Such a large expense to set up a local Thai company and to invite more scrutiny.

 

And eventually, you get fed up with it, and want to shut it down, and you fork out another estimated 25K baht just to close it properly.

 

When one could invoice his clients via HKG tax free legally and for much lower setup costs.

but a Hong Kong company is not a basis for a Thai work permit. perhaps the latte is the reason of the Thai setup?

[lkv]

7 hours ago, Naam said:

none of the "professional" consulting companies mentions / cites the 21 year old ruling. if it was still prevailing instead of the one below they would have included it in their tax advisory booklets.

 

 

There is no reason for them to mention this in their general public booklets. It's technical stuff. If you want to find out additional information not included in the booklets go ask PWC better. And pay money of course for the advice.

 

March 2014 is the last time the page was updated on the RD website, you make it sound like the text you quoted is some 2014 law.

 

It isn't. 

 

The Revenue code is the same as it's ever been for many many years (that you have to pay tax on overseas income when brought in -Section 41), and the tax loophole is that regulation from 1987, issued by the Revenue Department, which is the basis of people not paying tax if they bring the money in next year (which is how the 2017/18 booklet from PWC words it, keeping it simple).

 

So I am showing you all these in black and white, and your argument is, you know better than PWC or Deloitte?

 

Type into Google Gor Kor 0802/696

 

You will find a lot of links in Thai from .ac.th domains (academic)

 

And if you think 1987 is not current, (to come back on the topic), people are being denied entry under Section 12.2 of The Immigration Act from 1979.

Edited October 24, 2018 by lkv

[MasterHongThong]

So, I've been in Thailand for almost 2 months. I got the 30 day entry visa, then extended for one month. I'm planning to fly to The Philippines and try getting a new 60 day tourist visa, then flying back to Bangkok. Will I need to have 20,000 Baht in cash with me when I arrive?

[AYJAYDEE]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:49 PM, balo said:

Any EU country , including Scandinavia, if you're a EU/EEC citizen. I can live anywhere I want in Europe , except Russia and a few other countries in the east. 

 

thats a big IF

 

[The traveler]

On 10/23/2018 at 3:55 AM, vinny41 said:

have you looked at 1 year Non O Volunteer Visa  with a Thai Work Permit from a NGO

Thank you sir????  there are some options at the end of the tunnel!

[RickG16]

To confirm... the required amount of cash to show is 20k flying in with tourist visa, but 10k flying in with visa exempt?

[kevin612]

I believe you are in and out for a year under tourist visa. 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, MasterHongThong said:

Will I need to have 20,000 Baht in cash with me when I arrive?

 

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

To confirm... the required amount of cash to show is 20k flying in with tourist visa, but 10k flying in with visa exempt?

Those are specific documented requirements, yes. They are not often enforced, but will be if the official is looking for an excuse to deny you entry. Be aware (especially if entering visa exempt) that the official can still decide you are not able to financially support your stay in the country, even with your possession of this cash. There are two clauses under Section 12 of the Immigration Act that can be reasons to deny entry. One refers to these specific cash figures; the other is intended to weed out people staying in Thailand other than by using overseas sources of income.

[kannot]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:56 PM, lkv said:

Don't you think it's a bit ironic that Thailand heavily promotes PromptPay, supermarkets such as Gourmet Market already have QR payment machines, and now they are discussing implementing cross border QR payment systems, but then I hear this cash requirement idiotic thing from some other Thai authorities?

 

Another example is that Kasikorn has just recently introduced (quite late I would say compared to other banks), cardless ATM withdrawal based on QR code.

its  bloody ridiculous, i  carry  a credit card thats it.

[kannot]

On 10/23/2018 at 2:02 AM, The traveler said:

So many peoples here complaining that if we stay more then so and so long we are not tourists and we abuse the visas, yes that’s right we do, because for some of us that are under 50 years or are not married to a thai there are not many other options.

 

if Thailand could introduce a new visa for those under 50years that let you stay a full year without having to do anybody border crossing or go to the immigration to frequently I will be happy to pay up to 50,000 Baht a year for that.

 

only choice is education visa, but you have to meet to class or the elite visa which cost 100,000 baht a year, that’s to expensive, at least know with bad currency exercise rate, so it’s very easy for you guys over 50 years/ married to a thai and telling us we are abusing the visas, when you can chillax year after year without any problems.

 

it’s time to introduce new visas Thailand!

20 yrs, 1  million  baht, bargain Elite Visa

[ericthai]

On 10/22/2018 at 3:02 PM, The traveler said:

So many peoples here complaining that if we stay more then so and so long we are not tourists and we abuse the visas, yes that’s right we do, because for some of us that are under 50 years or are not married to a thai there are not many other options.

 

if Thailand could introduce a new visa for those under 50years that let you stay a full year without having to do anybody border crossing or go to the immigration to frequently I will be happy to pay up to 50,000 Baht a year for that.

 

only choice is education visa, but you have to meet to class or the elite visa which cost 100,000 baht a year, that’s to expensive, at least know with bad currency exercise rate, so it’s very easy for you guys over 50 years/ married to a thai and telling us we are abusing the visas, when you can chillax year after year without any problems.

 

it’s time to introduce new visas Thailand!

get a job with a work permit!  I lived and worked in Thailand long before turning 50 and I did this by working legally.  

[blackhorse]

20 yrs, 1  million  baht, bargain Elite Visa

Is it? Maybe in a perfect world but what if the wife runs away with your best mate or you health takes a serious turn or you just don't want to be 3rd world anymore?

What's the refund policy?
That's a rhetorical question [emoji137]

[Mark1066]

On 10/21/2018 at 2:57 PM, bbi1 said:

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Mark1066

[Naam]

8 hours ago, lkv said:

There is no reason for them to mention this in their general public booklets. It's technical stuff. If you want to find out additional information not included in the booklets go ask PWC better. And pay money of course for the advice.

 

March 2014 is the last time the page was updated on the RD website, you make it sound like the text you quoted is some 2014 law.

 

It isn't. 

 

The Revenue code is the same as it's ever been for many many years (that you have to pay tax on overseas income when brought in -Section 41), and the tax loophole is that regulation from 1987, issued by the Revenue Department, which is the basis of people not paying tax if they bring the money in next year (which is how the 2017/18 booklet from PWC words it, keeping it simple).

 

So I am showing you all these in black and white, and your argument is, you know better than PWC or Deloitte?

 

Type into Google Gor Kor 0802/696

 

You will find a lot of links in Thai from .ac.th domains (academic)

 

And if you think 1987 is not current, (to come back on the topic), people are being denied entry under Section 12.2 of The Immigration Act from 1979.

no amount of yada-yada yakety-yak changes these facts published by a Thai Government Site:

Quote

A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

 

[kinyara]

I'm still surprised even on this thread that some people are still asking whether they really need to carry the 20k, and some responses are, "unlikely they will ask". Why on earth take the risk, is following the stated requirements that difficult ? Personally I'd never travel anywhere overseas without a sensible cash amount as well as debit/credit cards for emergencies regardless if it was a requirement. I prefer to follow the rules even if inconvenient rather than giving some official an easy opportunity to knock me back or worse shake me down. The day I do get an issue in Thailand even though I'm observing the rules is the day I would seriously consider going elsewhere. 25 years and counting.

 

The OP was in the wrong and the official applied the rules, he made it easy for the IO.  Any speculation that he was looking for a reason and would have done it anyway says more about foreigners attitudes towards Thailand than vice versa. Get your own house in order, symptomatic of the blame culture.

[lkv]

4 hours ago, Naam said:

no amount of yada-yada yakety-yak changes these facts published by a Thai Government Site:

 

You can argue with PWC and ask them if regulations issued by the same Revenue department superseed the Code.

 

The reality is, you stated there is no written law or regulation anywhere, I showed you the regulation, and then you twisted it saying that it's too old, and it may not apply, because if it applied, it would be in the booklet. Faulty logic as far as I am concerned.

Edited October 25, 2018 by lkv

[Naam]

7 hours ago, lkv said:

You can argue with PWC and ask them if regulations issued by the same Revenue department superseed the Code.

why should i argue with people who are irrelevant pertaining to tax laws established by the Thai Government? yawnnn...

 

by the way... what part of Thai Government is ist you don't understand?

Edited October 25, 2018 by Naam

[lkv]

4 hours ago, Naam said:

why should i argue with people who are irrelevant pertaining to tax laws established by the Thai Government? yawnnn...

 

by the way... what part of Thai Government is ist you don't understand?

 

Sorry, you're trolling.

 

I will not reply to further comments on this, if you want to have the final word be my guest.

 

Good night.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by lkv

[swineninety9]

On 10/23/2018 at 4:17 AM, AYJAYDEE said:

does your home country allow Thais to come and stay for a year as a tourist  without a border hop?

My country encourages people to cross the southern boarder illegally, and then gives them drivers licenses, voter registration cards, and lets them get free money from the government. They even get to work illegally without worker permits while receiving said welfare. They get free hospital care, and a special priority line at all local government offices that speaks their language. If you complain you are literally Adolf A Hitler.

 

I can't imagine why other countries would not do the same for me =)

 

In all seriousness though, I feel bad for a lot of countries that all speak English instead of their local language and have their products and signs all in English. It surprised me when I first took a trip to Thailand and realized most signs were in English sometimes with a Thai translation small and to the right. Personally if I were Thai, it would piss me off.

[simoh1490]

4 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

It surprised me when I first took a trip to Thailand and realized most signs were in English sometimes with a Thai translation small and to the right. Personally if I were Thai, it would piss me off.

1

What you saw is very much the exception, signs that are in English are for the benefit of tourists in tourist areas and will not negatively impact thai's.

[Sheryl]

I don't need to have employees.  And yes, all the income is obtained from online work.  And I am old enough for a retirement visa or could go another route too.  Please can you tell me who I can consult regarding it being legal to convert to being a digital nomad?  I really would like to pursue that.  But unfortunately although Chiang Mai IO may think it's okay, unfortunately the only professional advice I've received is that this is not okay from several areas of Thai law.

There is no such thing as converting to a digital nomad, there is no such legal category either in visa regs or labor law.

What you can do is just get a retirement extension and carry on your online work on the understanding that it is a grey area of law that is not adequately addressed by existing regulations and to date immigration and labor dept have turned a blind eye to it. They will probably continue to do so until such time that appropriate regulations are enacted.

HOWEVER this advice applies only if your income from online work is from non-Thai sources. If your online business makes money inside Thailand (some or all of your clients are in Thailand, you are teceiving payment inside Thailand) then yes you had better have a company such as you have set up.

Note that you have likely done some things that bend the rules already in setting up a Thai company since you will have had to have Thais listed as co-owners. There really us not a fully legal option for you, either route bends some rules or strays into a grey area.


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[anon7854]

On 10/21/2018 at 5:28 AM, ubonjoe said:

Immigration cannot mark a visa void or canceled.

That is not correct. Having a visa does not grant you unconditional access to the country and they can make your tourist visa VOID on the spot either because of cases not known to the consular agent that granted you visa or a vague suspicion of you coming to work.

Edited January 13, 2019 by anon7854

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, anon7854 said:

That is not correct. Having a visa does not grant you unconditional access to the country ...

Correct.  If you are in violation of one of the specific reasons stated in the Immigration Act (and only then), you can be denied-entry, even while holding a valid Visa for entry. 

 

17 hours ago, anon7854 said:

... and they can make your tourist visa VOID on the spot either because of cases not known to the consular agent that granted you visa or a vague suspicion of you coming to work.

Please show where "vague suspicion" is listed in the Immigration Act or relevant police-order, with respect to Visa-holding visitors.

 

Also, I am aware of only one 3rd hand report of an IO in Thailand "voiding" a visa; that case involved a Non-O based on marriage, where the unwise fellow volunteered he had become divorced.

[JackThompson]

On 10/25/2018 at 11:14 AM, kinyara said:

Any speculation that he was looking for a reason and would have done it anyway says more about foreigners attitudes towards Thailand than vice versa. Get your own house in order, symptomatic of the blame culture.

It is based on reading other reports where the visitor had the 20K Baht cash, plus a Valid-Visa, plus offered to show more documentation proving they have LOTS of money, and was denied-entry anyway.

 

On 10/25/2018 at 2:58 AM, kannot said:

20 yrs, 1  million  baht, bargain Elite Visa

All up front with that 1M Baht. 
 

Contrast to 20 yrs in Cambodia, Vietnam, or PI - 220K for the 20-years but can make annual (or smaller) installment-payments.  You get a huge opportunity-cost savings, plus flexibility to move if desired, in addition to the 78% cost-savings over the elite.

[Misty]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:23 AM, Sheryl said:

There is no such thing as converting to a digital nomad, there is no such legal category either in visa regs or labor law.

What you can do is just get a retirement extension and carry on your online work on the understanding that it is a grey area of law that is not adequately addressed by existing regulations and to date immigration and labor dept have turned a blind eye to it. They will probably continue to do so until such time that appropriate regulations are enacted.

HOWEVER this advice applies only if your income from online work is from non-Thai sources. If your online business makes money inside Thailand (some or all of your clients are in Thailand, you are teceiving payment inside Thailand) then yes you had better have a company such as you have set up.

Note that you have likely done some things that bend the rules already in setting up a Thai company since you will have had to have Thais listed as co-owners. There really us not a fully legal option for you, either route bends some rules or strays into a grey area.


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Thanks Sheryl, just saw your post now. My income is from non-Thai sources.  To the best of my knowledge, I have not bent rules and do not have Thais listed as co-owners.

[GuestForLife]

" Tourists are Thailand's main income, "
no, its around 25% iirc, still, its practically free money with no competition that is the envy of any nation

I've read recently that it is just the 15% of the gdp

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[anon7854]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Correct.  If you are in violation of one of the specific reasons stated in the Immigration Act (and only then), you can be denied-entry, even while holding a valid Visa for entry. 

 

Please show where "vague suspicion" is listed in the Immigration Act or relevant police-order, with respect to Visa-holding visitors.

 

Also, I am aware of only one 3rd hand report of an IO in Thailand "voiding" a visa; that case involved a Non-O based on marriage, where the unwise fellow volunteered he had become divorced.

vague suspicion is actually the infamous  Section 12 (3) that they use when they cannot come up with a better reason for denial of entry.  I know someone personally that actually had to file an appeal for the retarded reason above (and succeeded in demonstrated he is not in Thailand for work) despite showing all the requested documents / cash at that time.

Edited January 14, 2019 by anon7854

[brewsterbudgen]

I've read recently that it is just the 15% of the gdp

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I thought I'd read that it was nearer 7%.

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[onera1961]

46 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I thought I'd read that it was nearer 7%.

2017 stats: 9.4% direct. 21% including indirect.

Edited January 15, 2019 by onera1961

[Mark1066]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:23 AM, Sheryl said:

There is no such thing as converting to a digital nomad, there is no such legal category either in visa regs or labor law.

What you can do is just get a retirement extension and carry on your online work on the understanding that it is a grey area of law that is not adequately addressed by existing regulations and to date immigration and labor dept have turned a blind eye to it. They will probably continue to do so until such time that appropriate regulations are enacted.

HOWEVER this advice applies only if your income from online work is from non-Thai sources. If your online business makes money inside Thailand (some or all of your clients are in Thailand, you are teceiving payment inside Thailand) then yes you had better have a company such as you have set up.

Note that you have likely done some things that bend the rules already in setting up a Thai company since you will have had to have Thais listed as co-owners. There really us not a fully legal option for you, either route bends some rules or strays into a grey area.


Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

How is having Thai directors/owners bending the rules? It’s complying with the rules isn’t it?