Income statement letters from embassies no longer required, confirms Phuket Immigration

[TKDfella]

I note that there are quite a few negative comments when it comes to the embassies who will no longer issue said letters. Indeed, I have indulged too (on other threads) (I've also had some nasty experiences elsewhere but not involving money so irrelevant here). But on reflection I ask myself if such criticism is well founded or deserving?

Being on foreign soil how much power/authority do embassies really have? What is the original and real function of an embassy in the first place? I have to admit that I don't know the answers to these questions...maybe someone on the forum does know...but I suspect historically first intent was for trade and commerce/diplomatic relations. other 'interests' may have evolved through some kind of mutual diplomatic concerns.

Like Ubonjoe intimated, it is The Thai immigration Bureau that is important not some branch officer but... Surely by now the Thai immigration bureau must realize the kerfuffle that has been created which now requires them to issue a general statement on the issue. Yet they remain silent. This leads to all kinds of opinions and speculation...and real concerns. Is there anything we expats can do to urge The Thai immigration Bureau to issue a statement? I doubt it...we will just have to wait.

[connda]

“Of course this letter is no longer needed if the embassy no longer issues it,” Col Archeep explained to The Phuket News today (Nov 22).

 

This gets the mealy-mouthed, clap-trap, stupidest, contrived, nonsensical, Captain Obvious Award of the Week. 

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

But he may be given power to administer his jurisdiction as he sees fit. We don't know how TI works. We can only see the different rules in different jurisdiction.

If you are silly enough to follow this blokes rules and then you travel to Bangkok just for a couple of days and you do not carry your passport because this bloke said you do not have to and you get pulled up at a check point then you are in trouble because the countries ruling body has made the rules not this DEPUTY head of 1 jurisdiction. If you want to take notice of him that is your problem

[DUNROAMIN]

11 hours ago, KhunFred said:

It would be nice if they could make up their minds on whether or not we need an income letter and whether or not we need to carry our passports.  This puts expats in constant danger of shakedowns and arrest.

Carry a photo copy of visa/passport in your car or motorbike, this will suffice 99% of the time, no need to carry on your person. Every time I have been stopped by police over the years I have been here, not once have I been asked to show my visa/passport.

[connda]

14 hours ago, steve187 said:

so nothing new then

Exactly!

[jimn]

17 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Just remember that this bloke at Phuket does not make the rules. He has said that you do not need to carry your passport but the ruling body the Bureau of Immigration says that you must carry your passport. This bloke says that you do not need a letter of income for you extension. That is only if you have 400,000/800,000baht seasoned in a Thai bank account in accordance with the rules as laid down by the Bureau of Immigration. So don't bother to get all excited and get your nickers in a knot UNTIL you hear from the ruling body, the Bureau of Immigration because they are the ones that make the rules, not the deputy head of Phuket Immigration.

Agree its really a non news storey that TV headlines when things are a bit slow. This local immigration has been proved to be a rougue office time and time again. Not worth time to even post about. Dont know why I did lol.

[jabis]

3 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I note that there are quite a few negative comments when it comes to the embassies who will no longer issue said letters. Indeed, I have indulged too (on other threads) (I've also had some nasty experiences elsewhere but not involving money so irrelevant here). But on reflection I ask myself if such criticism is well founded or deserving?

Being on foreign soil how much power/authority do embassies really have? What is the original and real function of an embassy in the first place? I have to admit that I don't know the answers to these questions...maybe someone on the forum does know...but I suspect historically first intent was for trade and commerce/diplomatic relations. other 'interests' may have evolved through some kind of mutual diplomatic concerns.

Like Ubonjoe intimated, it is The Thai immigration Bureau that is important not some branch officer but... Surely by now the Thai immigration bureau must realize the kerfuffle that has been created which now requires them to issue a general statement on the issue. Yet they remain silent. This leads to all kinds of opinions and speculation...and real concerns. Is there anything we expats can do to urge The Thai immigration Bureau to issue a statement? I doubt it...we will just have to wait.

I try to take this as jai yen yen as I can, but I can't see any realistic thing happening before the electionsl 

we'll most definitely see what happens after that all the *44*s are retracted and/or amended and what happens to the status of aliens in control of different puppets or muppets. The Danes will see this as a no-go as their embassy just pulled the mat underneath them, and until we hear from their side we have another 6 months to wait (as of starting next year) Different offices might have different interpretations of course, but I don't see anyone doing anything meaningful to any of this until the stage is clear for new political actors. Or maybe Big Joke just swipe retired people off his sleight, who knows. We're certainly living exciting times now ????

[Hockeybik]

49 minutes ago, eggers said:

Would easily be 0.5m- 1.0m ++..... Plus consider, how much funds Expats pour into Thai economy??

I cannot find hard numbers and I totally agree it it "a lot" but is it "thousands", "10's of thousands" or a million as you suggest? No matter how many it is, Thailand should court this "found money" and lay out the red carpet for retirees from other countries. Money being spent in the Kingdom that took no resources from the Thai economy is an economic win-win-win no matter how much it amounts to. 

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

But pensioners, such as you and I need not be concerned. If you could prove your income to the embassy, you can prove it to TI. Others may find it more difficult, however, providing they can demonstrate that they have sufficient income into their bank accounts, they need not worry either.

TI rules regarding income have not changed. The only thing that has changed, is that we will have to provide the evidence directly to TI and not via the our embassies.

I am confused about this statement unless it concerns the 800k deposit method.

 

As I understand it TI will ONLY accept income verification from letters issued by Embassies...…...nothing else is acceptable as far as they are concerned. 

[Waynou]

I have never been asked for a Government Certification just copy of Statement Verified by Bank and Signed by a J.P.

Does this meen J.P's wont sign anymore. i am on an O-A Visa have been for 4 years

From Application.... You must take all 3 sets to a Notary Public to bind and notarize each set. The binding and notarization of documents must only be done by a Notary Public or Justice of the Peace.  

Edited November 23, 2018 by Waynou
Addition

[Unify]

The US officials in the Chiang Mai public meeting the other day, mentioned that they were providing training to Thai immigration officials on how to interpret various forms of US income.

 

So, they seem to believe that Thai immigration will be looking at documents themselves, to determine whether someone meets the monetary requirements.

 

Tax returns and 1099 forms were mentioned.

 

They also flat-out stated that Thai immigration at the highest level, told them I that the income affidavits would not be required from US citizens.

[mickba]

14 hours ago, darksidedog said:

................. I feel somewhat betrayed by the Embassies.....................

Read again?

They had no choice.

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Carry a photo copy of visa/passport in your car or motorbike, this will suffice 99% of the time, no need to carry on your person. Every time I have been stopped by police over the years I have been here, not once have I been asked to show my visa/passport.

I have been asked twice in the last 18 months for my passport at 2 different police checkpoints and they checked everything in it including the departure card, 90 day report date and the address receipt. How many of you carry a copy of them?

[johnny49r]

While immigration sidesteps the issue of visa requirements, they will form committees to study the best way to notify visa holders of their expiration. While notification is (without doubt) an admiral goal and worthy of much praise it doesn't do much good if the rules for obtaining visas aren't clear.

A great example of reordering priorities based on their relative ease of accomplishment. In my neighborhood that's called picking the low hanging fruit!

Edited November 23, 2018 by johnny49r

[connda]

18 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Agree. Denmark seems to have made themselves the guinea pig by their 'with immediate effect' statement and, unless Thai immigration make to announcement clear about acceptable methods of proving income (for the income method outside only state pension), then their's will be the first indicator as to what is to come.

A more accurate metaphor would be "Canary in the coal mine." 

 

E.g., "Agree. Denmark seems to have made themselves the canary in the coal mine....."

So the first indication of where this is going is to watch for retirees from Denmark going 'belly up'. 
 

"The metaphor originates from the times when miners used to carry caged canaries while at work; if there was any methane or carbon monoxide in the mine, the canary would die before the levels of the gas reached those hazardous to humans."

 

[jimn]

19 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

This is the only ray of hope I have seen from Immigration. All offices should make this standard. Most of us HAVE some documentation, just not documentation that might be readable to a Thai with limited English skills. At least Phuket understands the emergency nature of the Embassy action on affidavits. When i got my Non-Immigrant O in Vientiane in 2015, I brought the Embassy Letter, but the officer still wanted to see documentation. I showed him what I had from SS, Teacher's Retirement and my TIAA annuity and he seemed satisfied.  We need the option of having our documentation translated and used in place of the letter.

I am scratching my head to understand your post I am afraid, did you read it properly and the link attached. All it says is that 400,000 or 800,000 in a Thai Bank account to obtain an extension. What is the new news here? Its always been the case. Perhaps you should share why you think this information should be made "standard". 

Edited November 23, 2018 by jimn

[Media1]

15 hours ago, darksidedog said:

“However, the foreigner applying for the visa (or permit-to-stay) will still have to prove that they have the funds to stay in the country, such as by showing bank statements that prove the foreigner has B800,000 in a Thai bank account,” he said.
Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/income-statement-letters-from-embassies-no-longer-required-confirms-phuket-immigration-69438.php#IZF5tP7cSx8GQ7b0.99

So is that the only option? What about the 65,000 a month? Is that no longer an option? It seems that if we want to stay we have to put money into banks that many of us dont fully trust. I feel somewhat betrayed by the Embassies. You can guarantee they will not be there in our corner if/when our cash has vanished.

I hope immigration can come up with much firmer details on what is and isn't acceptable before crunch time comes, as I can already hear the squeals of pain and outrage.

He can dribble all he likes. l don't listen to this crap. Especially from Phuket 

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, jabis said:

Well - it's hidden in the text - perhaps my pun wasn't too obvious - "high income country" ????

That goal is achieved through development PLUS preventing lower-wage labor to enter the country, denying citizens higher-wages for working-class jobs.  All they need to do is look at what happened to the middle-class of the USA due to this effect - then drastically reduce "L" visas.  The only purpose of such visas, is for factory workers, when/if the owners of said-factories could simply move to Vietnam if they had to pay decent wages.  All "non-moveable" jobs (such as construction, housekeeping, etc) can pay good middle-class wages given a tight labor-market.

 

Expats' foreign-sourced income spending can play a large part in creating more of these "non-moveable" jobs - lifting tens of thousands of Thai families out of poverty - allowing for supporting their elders, funding the sustainable development of their rural family-land, paying for the education of family-members, etc.  Each one of these expat-funded success-stories makes the country more politically-stable, and with a brighter economic future which is more resistant to the ebbs and flows of the global economy.

[ginjag]

27 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I have been asked twice in the last 18 months for my passport at 2 different police checkpoints and they checked everything in it including the departure card, 90 day report date and the address receipt. How many of you carry a copy of them?

They will ask at some places for anything, if you not have you get fined, I am waiting for them to ask how many original teeth my grandmother had upon death  LOL

[jabis]

23 minutes ago, Hockeybik said:

I cannot find hard numbers and I totally agree it it "a lot" but is it "thousands", "10's of thousands" or a million as you suggest? No matter how many it is, Thailand should court this "found money" and lay out the red carpet for retirees from other countries. Money being spent in the Kingdom that took no resources from the Thai economy is an economic win-win-win no matter how much it amounts to. 

have to rely on last data given, and that would amount to 483916 persons from top 5 countries, where one earlier study showed that ~½ are on working permit based visas and extensions, so rest are divided with marriage, retirement, ED, health etc visas and extensions ????
 

[alex8912]

10 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

Actually, having searched online, it seems that theft from Thai bank accounts is not an uncommon event and in most cases, the banks do little to help. In one case I found, they suggested the victim ask the police to help track down the thief and refused to take responsibility for the missing money themselves. As I was about to transfer quite a lot of money here, it’s certainly given me pause for thought.

If it hasn’t been said already tell us your country and there will be many stories of theft from accounts and some banks not being particularly helpful. Also your use of the phrase “ theft from Thai bank accounts is not an uncommon event” should include the TRUTH. First of all it is far from being common because it would be on this forum every single day if it was. Second when it had happened about 99% of the time it’s the guys wife , girlfriend or some family member!!! Got it now?

[Caine]

Embassies are there to promote their own country, business, culture, democracy etc. Why should they help ex citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere ? betraying the birthright of that very country. Seems fair enough to me, tough shit.

[KhunFred]

3 minutes ago, Caine said:

Embassies are there to promote their own country, business, culture, democracy etc. Why should they help ex citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere ? betraying the birthright of that very country. Seems fair enough to me, tough shit.

They are not "ex-citizens". ALL of them retain their citizenship, just not their residency.  The idea of "betraying the birthright of that very country" sounds like Trump rhetoric. That is NOT the policy of most governments. I live where it is affordable but I am still an American. I expect to be treated like one at my Embassy.

[bubba]

7 minutes ago, Caine said:

Embassies are there to promote their own country, business, culture, democracy etc. Why should they help ex citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere ? betraying the birthright of that very country. Seems fair enough to me, tough shit.

 

Because they are still citizens of their respective countries and a primary mission of consulates is providing services to those citizens?

Edited November 23, 2018 by bubba

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, Caine said:

Embassies are there to promote their own country, business, culture, democracy etc. Why should they help ex citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere ? betraying the birthright of that very country. Seems fair enough to me, tough shit.

Because the retirement person on old age pension paid into the system for maybe 50 years to receive on retirement, it is his hard earned money. NOT to say if you go away we will cap it--or in your words --why should they help  ?? look up what else embassies and consulates are there for.  so it is not their business if you die abroad  ???  hey come on.

[alex8912]

43 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I have been asked twice in the last 18 months for my passport at 2 different police checkpoints and they checked everything in it including the departure card, 90 day report date and the address receipt. How many of you carry a copy of them?

It’s been said many times already. You just need a pic in your phone  of main passport page , visa/report and the last departure card  you had. The reason it takes them so long in your case is that you ARE presenting your entire passport and these guys on the side of the road at a stop don’t even know what they are looking at. It’s your fault it takes so long. Do you really think that they expect you to carry your passport to go to 7/11? Give us a break! Fear monger alert. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by alex8912

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

They are not "ex-citizens". ALL of them retain their citizenship, just not their residency.  The idea of "betraying the birthright of that very country" sounds like Trump rhetoric. That is NOT the policy of most governments. I live where it is affordable but I am still an American. I expect to be treated like one at my Embassy.

Agreed with most however if like most snowflakes in the USA your bad attitude is anti Trump, and if he was as bad you say...you would never be allowed back. He is the Top man who is trying to say legitimate migrants are welcome with work permits etc, not all and sundry.

[onera1961]

21 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

If it hasn’t been said already tell us your country and there will be many stories of theft from accounts and some banks not being particularly helpful

In the USA, banks take responsibility even if theft occurs using debit visa/mc in a foreign country. My Ally bank debit card was lost in a Hotel in Bangkok and somebody charged 50,000 baht and bought Gold. I reported and immediately they gave me access to the money and started their investigation. The investigation concluded after four weeks, that it was a theft. I did not have to report to police or anything else. I have 100% confidence in my US banks for credit cards and debit cards. Just a call to them sufficed. I have travelled all over the World with only $100 in my pocket, using credit cards and debit cards only

Edited November 23, 2018 by onera1961

[ubonjoe]

This topic is now over 30 posts shorter after I cleaned it up to remove several troll posts and replies to them.

[Mansell]

4 hours ago, catman20 said:

i have been here over 18 years had millions of bahts in accounts here over that time not 1 baht has ever gone missing.

But the other millions were gone.....but the one baht was still there. Ha ha ha.