The Official Manchester City Thread

[RickG16]

7 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

You don't have to, but if you think this project is anywhere near its conclusion or end of cycle, then again, you know nothing about it. 

 

"This project"... I do love a bit of European manager speak on a Tuesday morning.

 

With United in 1993, that was the era of 1 sub. We had a very good first XI, but the squad players were essentially workhorses who were happy to play a supporting role - Brian McLair, Mike Phelan etc.

 

How long will the likes of Shaqiri be happy to sit on the bench? How long before Salah has his head turned (if not already)? How long before Klopp has his head turned? We can expect Spurs to strengthen, and it looks like United will be a force next season too. This season is your chance. 

[BangrakBob]

7 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

"This project"... I do love a bit of European manager speak on a Tuesday morning.

 

With United in 1993, that was the era of 1 sub. We had a very good first XI, but the squad players were essentially workhorses who were happy to play a supporting role - Brian McLair, Mike Phelan etc.

 

How long will the likes of Shaqiri be happy to sit on the bench? How long before Salah has his head turned (if not already)? How long before Klopp has his head turned? We can expect Spurs to strengthen, and it looks like United will be a force next season too. This season is your chance. 

It's not 2012 mate, players want to come and play for us now, we are eating at the top table. Shaqiri has started 10 out of 22 matches and played in 18, again you are not up to speed. 

Salah is going nowhere right now, like all modern players, he will do eventually, but not without being replaced and not next season. Who are these players going to play for that is a step up right now?

[RickG16]

7 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

 Who are these players going to play for that is a step up right now?

Where did Coutinho go again? Or are you now as big as Barca, without having actually won anything?

 

IMO the top table is Real Madrid, Barca and PSG. It is hard for any club to stop players going there.

 

United look like the next table down in terms of player attraction and retention, but not by much, with Bayern etc + arguably Liverpool. 

[wilai]

^ I doubt Barca will get any LFC player for a while as there is a 100 million surcharge on top of the player's valuation......was included as part of the Coutinho deal.????

Edited January 22, 2019 by wilai
missed a couple of zeros!

[RickG16]

10 minutes ago, wilai said:

^ I doubt Barca will get any LFC player for a while as there is a 1 million surcharge on top of the player's valuation......was included as part of the Coutinho deal.????

Explain that a bit more mate, or link to more details?

 

1 million doesn't sound a lot? 

[wilai]

3 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Explain that a bit more mate, or link to more details?

 

1 million doesn't sound a lot? 

Oops....corrected now. Mentioned in all the papers last Novemberish I think

Edited January 22, 2019 by wilai

[BangrakBob]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

Where did Coutinho go again? Or are you now as big as Barca, without having actually won anything?

 

IMO the top table is Real Madrid, Barca and PSG. It is hard for any club to stop players going there.

 

United look like the next table down in terms of player attraction and retention, but not by much, with Bayern etc + arguably Liverpool. 

Yep he was the last player out the door (and now he wishes he wasn't), and we are better team for it. Didn't see anyone going in the summer and since then we've signed arguably the best centre back, who could have gone anywhere, one of the best keepers and in my opinion a top midfielder in Fabinho. 

The out goings in the summer will be the weaknesses and incoming will be strengthening again.

 

United are not in front of City or Liverpool right now with regards to attracting top players. Just look at the top level talent that City as a squad have. Your financial might, rather than stature is what will attract talent if you make the CL next season. 

 

Rick everything you keep saying is more of what you want to happen or believe rather than a reality and that's understandable, keep the dream alive pal, but remember The Messiah has never returned and never will, it will never be that good again, live with it.

Edited January 22, 2019 by BangrakBob

[RickG16]

45 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

United are not in front of City or Liverpool right now with regards to attracting top players. Just look at the top level talent that City as a squad have. Your financial might, rather than stature is what will attract talent if you make the CL next season. 

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

 

But this isn't about United. You've bought some good players, but seem to think you have 'arrived', when you haven't achieved anything yet. You could win the title this season, in which case this discussion isn't relevant. If you don't... I think things could get very tricky (in terms of winning something, that is). 

[Bredbury Blue]

3 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

 

But this isn't about United. You've bought some good players, but seem to think you have 'arrived', when you haven't achieved anything yet. You could win the title this season, in which case this discussion isn't relevant. If you don't... I think things could get very tricky (in terms of winning something, that is). 

Rick's doing a pretty good job copy and pasting R2D2's comments on the decline and fall of Spurs.

 

Always amuses me when people post speculative comments.

[RickG16]

Just now, Bredbury Blue said:

speculative comments.

What do you mean?

 

We are discussing what could happen if Liverpool don't win the league, so yes there is an element of speculation. Bob thinks that there is no rush and that they can do it next season. I think this could be the best chance they will have for a long  time. 

 

Nothing R2D2-esque. You are welcome to contribute. 

[Bredbury Blue]

4 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

What do you mean?

 

We are discussing what could happen if Liverpool don't win the league, so yes there is an element of speculation. Bob thinks that there is no rush and that they can do it next season. I think this could be the best chance they will have for a long  time. 

 

Nothing R2D2-esque. You are welcome to contribute. 

What do I mean by speculative comments (though you answered your own question)?

 

Well for example, comments along the lines of how Liverpool will be next season. No one - not even klippety klopp knows how Liverpool will do next season - so why are you even bothering to speculate about it?

 

[RickG16]

1 minute ago, Bredbury Blue said:

why are you even bothering to speculate about it?

 

Why not? I think it's interesting what will happen next season if Liverpool don't win the league. If you don't that's fine, leave it to Bob and I. ????

[Bredbury Blue]

Just now, RickG16 said:

Why not? I think it's interesting what will happen next season if Liverpool don't win the league. If you don't that's fine, leave it to Bob and I. ????

It is intersting but it's  a waste of time currently. One person says this season is liverpool's best opportunity, the other person says no it's not. Who's correct? We won't know for another year or more so what's the point of speculating?

 

[Bredbury Blue]

And whats the point of going on about uniteds 1993 team in relation to current events at liverpool?

[RickG16]

10 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

And whats the point of going on about uniteds 1993 team in relation to current events at liverpool?

Read back earlier in the thread and you might find out. It was relevant to the scenario of scousers getting pipped at the post, and their ability to win it next season and end the drought.

 

Right, you've convinced me I need to give TVF a rest for the day. I'll leave your little city thread alone. Lighten up son! 

[BangrakBob]

44 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

 

Sanchez came for the money. 

 

You bought Lukaku from Everton ????

[RickG16]

Just now, BangrakBob said:

Sanchez came for the money. 

 

You bought Lukaku from Everton ????

Stop moving the goalposts. It's a question of ability to attract top players vs other top clubs, not the reason for the buying power.

 

The point with Lukaku is he chose us over Chelsea. 

[carmine]

55 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

 

But this isn't about United. You've bought some good players, but seem to think you have 'arrived', when you haven't achieved anything yet. You could win the title this season, in which case this discussion isn't relevant. If you don't... I think things could get very tricky (in terms of winning something, that is). 

For what its worth i read in one of the broadsheets last week that United haven't even paid in full yet for Pogba and Martial.  

 

Another point is that when you talk about second tiers and the like you really should add next to that in brackets "and qualified for the CL" because if you are not in the CL top players ain't interested no matter who you are.  I really don't think that United are a bigger pull than City these days, nor Arsenal than Spurs.  

 

You tend to sound more concerned about Liverpool than put over a logical point of view about them  btw.  Reality currently is they are light years better and until we see who your next full time manager is, none of us, including your good self has any idea if United will be getting closer to Liverpool or City in the near future.  And lets face it, Woodward and the rest of the United board are well capable of making another <deleted> appointment.

Edited January 22, 2019 by carmine

[BangrakBob]

6 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Stop moving the goalposts. It's a question of ability to attract top players vs other top clubs, not the reason for the buying power.

 

The point with Lukaku is he chose us over Chelsea. 

And I'd argue Lukaku is not a top player, a good player . VvD chose us over City,  one of Europe's best centre backs. 

[carmine]

1 minute ago, BangrakBob said:

And I'd argue Lukaku is not a top player, a good player . VvD chose us over City,  one of Europe's best centre backs. 

Lukaku is not a top player but he's likes the big wages.  Chelsea and United being known to pay the big ones.  other than that he's a big lump with the football brain the size of a pea. The 90m price tag, more than the entire cost of the Spurs side at the time of his signing was nothing more than a joke in bad taste. He can't cut it when it matters.

 

As for VVD, that must grate because he's the one United should have bought during the time of Liverpools first attempt that they messed up.  VVD is one of the very few world class center backs, as was Kompany a few years ago,  that you can build a defense around.  United spend lots of money on the wrong players which is why the board didn't give Mourinho anymore after he'd wasted 400m already and who could blame them.

[Bredbury Blue]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

 

But this isn't about United. You've bought some good players, but seem to think you have 'arrived', when you haven't achieved anything yet. You could win the title this season, in which case this discussion isn't relevant. If you don't... I think things could get very tricky (in terms of winning something, that is). 

I would have thought you'd be keeping quiet about your great signings, lukaku and sanchez.

 

In fairness to Bob i don't think he has been saying liverpool have arrived, in the main he's kept quiet on their chances this season. The fact they made the CL final last season and are leading the Premier and looking good this season must be a pretty big sign they have arrived (while ManUs decline keeps on going eh).

[carmine]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

 

But this isn't about United. You've bought some good players, but seem to think you have 'arrived', when you haven't achieved anything yet. You could win the title this season, in which case this discussion isn't relevant. If you don't... I think things could get very tricky (in terms of winning something, that is). 

Pot calling the kettle black here.

 

Says that Liverpool are wrong to think they are "back" even though they are top of the league and reached the CL final....................but its ok to be suggesting United are back when over the space they a few weeks they beat Spurs and a handful of bottom half table clubs............just saying,  because United look to have been lagging it up big time with <deleted> all to back it up but Liverpools performance this past year or more seem to back it up!!  

Edited January 22, 2019 by carmine

[Bredbury Blue]

26 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

And I'd argue Lukaku is not a top player, a good player . VvD chose us over City,  one of Europe's best centre backs. 

City were interested but baulked at the high price and went for Laporte instead. I think we're both happy. I'd  be extremely happy if we had both of them ????

[mrbojangles]

5 hours ago, RickG16 said:

Let's look at recent big name players fought over by top six clubs. Alexis by United and City - we got him. Lukaku by United and Chelsea - we got him. 

You’re paying Sanchez about £390k per week and is looking like one of the biggest flops ever in football history and you want to bring his name up!!

 

BTW there was no “fight” in signing him. A fee was agreed with City, his agent wanted City to pay more or it would go to a bidding war and we told them to swivel. We didn’t increase our bid one penny on our original agreement.

[RickG16]

22 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

You’re paying Sanchez about £390k per week and is looking like one of the biggest flops ever in football history and you want to bring his name up!!

 

BTW there was no “fight” in signing him. A fee was agreed with City, his agent wanted City to pay more or it would go to a bidding war and we told them to swivel. We didn’t increase our bid one penny on our original agreement.

It doesn't matter if he was a flop, at the time nobody knew that. We are talking about attracting players. We wanted him, we got him. We and possibly City are the only clubs that cab compete with the Spanish big 2 and PSG

[BangrakBob]

26 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

It doesn't matter if he was a flop, at the time nobody knew that. We are talking about attracting players. We wanted him, we got him. We and possibly City are the only clubs that cab compete with the Spanish big 2 and PSG

Another example of you being wrong, Alison Becker who was destined for Real Madrid came to Liverpool. 

 

I have an overwhelming counter for every argument you have made over the past 2 days. 

 

You are now speaking about financial power, not the pull of the club. Only City, PSG and yourselves can offer ludicrous salaries to a whole side. But look at what that has done for your club over the past 5 years, a billion spent on a couple of tin pot trophies and you've been regressing up until 6 weeks ago. Your club is being completely mismanaged. 

 

Klopp inherited a sorry club, with an average team that got flogged by Stoke 6-1. We were used to teams like Chelsea, Madrid, Barca and then City taking our talent. That was 2015, since then we've been to 3 finals, 2 in Europe, got back in the CL, back to back, are on top of the league and have spent 10M net since his arrival. 

Look at every player the club has brought in under Jurgen Klopp, everyone except 4M Karius and free balls Matip have developed in to brilliant players.

The strategy, the business model, the social aspect, everything around the club is on fire! You have no idea my friend.

Top players want to play for this club and I can bet we will sign a couple of belters in the summer and some decent squad players that will develop again, and and academy boys such as Wilson, Brewster and Camacho going the firsts. Faster...stronger!!????

 

 

[mrbojangles]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 4:18 PM, RickG16 said:

1. City are not committed to developing young players for the first team.

One issue I would like to bring up about that bit.

 

The FA need to take some ownership on this. City U21's play Sunderland in the Checkatrade Trophy tonight and the first team play Burton tomorrow in the 2nd leg of the Carabao. The Checkatrade was only announced last week. City asked if the Checkatrade Trophy could be moved so that some of the U21's could be given a chance to play in the first team against Burton. Several alternatives were offered but a staunch "no can do" came back. That means City have to prioritise either giving the U21's a chance in the first team in a semi-final of a major comp or letting them carry on in their Checkatrade Trophy. I still don't kmow what Pep will do but the FA should be trying to assist in youngsters coming through not blocking them.

 

IMO of course 

[RickG16]

2 hours ago, mrbojangles said:

One issue I would like to bring up about that bit.

 

The FA need to take some ownership on this. City U21's play Sunderland in the Checkatrade Trophy tonight and the first team play Burton tomorrow in the 2nd leg of the Carabao. The Checkatrade was only announced last week. City asked if the Checkatrade Trophy could be moved so that some of the U21's could be given a chance to play in the first team against Burton. Several alternatives were offered but a staunch "no can do" came back. That means City have to prioritise either giving the U21's a chance in the first team in a semi-final of a major comp or letting them carry on in their Checkatrade Trophy. I still don't kmow what Pep will do but the FA should be trying to assist in youngsters coming through not blocking them.

 

IMO of course 

Thanks, but me and you both know that's a request to move young players from a minor competition to a slightly less minor competition.

 

Really giving youth a chance means making room for them and bruising egos. It's the only reason Jessie Lingard has been starting ahead of Alexis - for both Jose (who did, maybe begrudgingly, understand our club ethos) and Ole. 

 

Let's not kid ourselves here. In order to fully blood Foden you need to get rid of one of KDB, D Silva , B Silva or Fernandinho. You need to play him in the big games.

 

You have amazing players, but you aren't willing to roll the dice fully on young players, That's fine, but don't pretend. 

[mrbojangles]

32 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Thanks, but me and you both know that's a request to move young players from a minor competition to a slightly less minor competition.

 

Really giving youth a chance means making room for them and bruising egos. It's the only reason Jessie Lingard has been starting ahead of Alexis - for both Jose (who did, maybe begrudgingly, understand our club ethos) and Ole. 

 

Let's not kid ourselves here. In order to fully blood Foden you need to get rid of one of KDB, D Silva , B Silva or Fernandinho. You need to play him in the big games.

 

You have amazing players, but you aren't willing to roll the dice fully on young players, That's fine, but don't pretend. 

I think you maybe (conveniently) missing the point.

 

Youngsters have to start somewhere and a semi final of a major comp (yes the league cup is a major comp or United wouldn't list it in the honours listing). These youngsters normally play in front of empty stadiums and Burton will be a full house (yes small stadium but more than they would normally play in front of). They will also get the opportunity to play with first teamers. This is an ideal opportunity for some of them to make the next step and the FA have not helped.

 

As for willing to roll the dice. In which comp do you think Pep can afford to roll the dice?

[Rc2702]

5 hours ago, RickG16 said:

It doesn't matter if he was a flop, at the time nobody knew that. We are talking about attracting players. We wanted him, we got him. We and possibly City are the only clubs that cab compete with the Spanish big 2 and PSG

the guy would have signed for Burnley if they had the wonga. Your overlooking the fact Sanchez just wanted out of arsenal and would have gone anywhere. There was no major grab for that guy.