If the Falklands was invaded today, Could the UK without help take it back again

[chrisinth]

21 hours ago, phetpeter said:

Back in the day, Maggie decided to go alone, to perhaps prove to the world, we were still a superpower, and by chance, was able to refit some long-range bombers that were headed for the scrap yard and aging ships, (but, still had to use commercial shipping including the QE2), plus knowing that enemies were also in political trouble in their own land, and would not be able to send mass troop deployment. We managed to win the schoolyard brawl. But now, I wonder?

I was a bit confused with the title to this reference "...could the UK without help take it back again".

 

It would have to be a resounding no, as it is very doubtful that they could have done it the first time round without a lot of help. The Ascension island strip was one of the busiest in the world at that time with external support.

 

And to clarify, I am British, was a serving member at the time, down there before the fleet arrived, and then spent 9 months patrolling the islands after the conflict. The 9 months 'patrolling' was on a vessel (HMS Dumbarton Castle) that had one 40mm bofers gun that the Admiralty in their wisdom, sent down there from Rosyth in Scotland to replace a frigate before realizing we had no 'teeth'. We spent those 9 months as a PR vessel visiting the settlements on the islands socializing with the locals. Also included several runs down to South Georgia island to give the resident soldiers a day at sea to enjoy the hospitality of the RN.

 

Such were the cutbacks even then.......................  That's true facts above..................

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I spoke to a pommy guy in a gay bar in Pattaya about 10 years ago, he had served in Northern ireland and had heard stories from the Falklands

 

Dont qoute me on it ,but he told me there were British and Argentine soldiers caught in houses getting it on with each other,he said his mates raided a house and they actually caught them in the act.

 

can anyone verify this?

The standard of English gives a clear indication of the IQ of the poster.

[Blackheart1916]

They are already invaded, by the British if you talk to my Argentinian friends. 82 was just a deflection by Galtieri, the Argentinian dictator at the time, and a lot of under trained and under supplied young men died because of it. Not sure of the UK's capability at the moment, but if it got hard I assume their allies would help them out.

[Blackheart1916]

2 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I spoke to a pommy guy in a gay bar in Pattaya about 10 years ago, he had served in Northern ireland and had heard stories from the Falklands

 

Dont qoute me on it ,but he told me there were British and Argentine soldiers caught in houses getting it on with each other,he said his mates raided a house and they actually caught them in the act.

 

can anyone verify this?

I don't think I will be quoting you on anything.

[roo860]

...as did France.

Oh yeah, I forgot the Exocet missiles.
[emoji30]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Blackheart1916]

7 hours ago, bendejo said:

Some of the posts here are quite flattering to the Argentines.  The Argie gov't didn't actually care about the islands, they needed a diversion and a patriotic cause to unite the citizens: the Argies are known for being extremely prideful and snobby, sometimes to the point of being nauseating (ask anyone from any other Latin American country).

I first went there in 2003, and I noticed that at least once a week the 'Malvinas Conflict' was mentioned in the newspapers, with ceremonies to assure people their sons did not die in vain, war memorials dedicated etc.  A movie was released called the Algeciras Incident, about how Argentina's equiv of the SAS attempted to sabotage the Brit navy in Gibraltar at that time. 

I haven't been there since 2011.  At that time the peso was around 3.xx to one USD.  Today it is 37.50.

 

 

Spot on. I first went in 1999, and the peso was 1 to 1 USD. Next visit, 2002, just as the economy was collapsing, nasty stuff. It has stabilised somewhat, getting Menem out of power was a great thing, but there are still issues. There is still a bit of resentment towards the UK, but it's pretty low key, and the signs "Islas Malvinas son Argentinas" are still in place by the roadside in the south (2012). The Argies are definitely thought of snobs by the rest of SA, but I can't fault their beef, beer and women!

[evadgib]

Links of interest:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-argentina-agree-new-flight-linking-the-falklands-and-south-america

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-46308021

Edited January 3, 2019 by evadgib

[DoctorG]

A good read. Thanks everyone.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Andrew65 said:

....to perhaps prove to the world, we were still a superpower...

 

Except for the fact that we weren't, and hadn't been for a long time.

So I guess you would have just surrendered and left it at that.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Not to burst any bubbles but Lady Thatcher didn't take the Falklands back alone. 

Her pal Ronald Maximus helped her in significant ways. 

She had to shout at him first.

[Kerryd]

A quick review of the navies of the UK and Argentina show that the UK has the upper hand in terms of available combatants, capabilities and quality (of ships, systems and personnel).

The Argentine fleet can barely field 12 of it's 42 ships and it's only aircraft carrier was decommissioned 18 years ago. It's subs barely manage 6 hours of subsurface time - per year ! (Not to mention that they recently lost one.)

 

Meanwhile the UK Navy has 13 Type 23 Frigates and 6 Type 42 Destroyers plus 4 Ballistic and 6 Fleet submarines (armed with heavyweight torpedoes and Tomahawk cruise missiles). Plus 2 Amphibious transport ships that can carry 4-700 marines and up to 67 vehicles (and helicopters and landing craft).

 

The first Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carrier is undergoing sea trials and expected to be in service in 2020. No doubt that it could be pressed into service earlier if need be. They started training with F-35 II B STOVL variant (Short Take Off and Vertical Landing) in 2018.

In the 1700s, England, Spain and France all had control of parts of the Islands for various periods.

Argentina claims that they own the Falklands because they acquired them from Spain in 1816. Spain gained control of some of the islands from France but in 1811, during the Napoleonic Wars in Europe, the Spanish abandoned the islands. It would be hard to say that the islands belonged to Spain when they granted independence to Argentina in 1816.

In 1833 the UK took control of the islands and expelled the Argentinians and has been in control of the islands ever since. 

There were talks in the past (including by Thatcher's government) about handing the Falklands over to Argentina - as a cost cutting measure for the UK !

("Concerned at the expense of maintaining the Falkland Islands in an era of budget cuts, the UK again considered transferring sovereignty to Argentina in the early Thatcher government.")

However those talks all fell through and the UK never ceded ownership of those islands. 

The vast majority of the current inhabitants were born on the islands and the vast majority of their ancestors were never Argentine either.  
In 2013, the Falklands had a referendum and 99.8% of the voters favoured remaining as a British "overseas territory". Note that Argentina apparently doesn't give a **** what the people on the Falklands think and doesn't consider them as "partners" in the negotiations (whenever they happen).

Personally, I think the Argentinians would be hard pressed to even try another invasion and would have little, if any, support from anyone else if they did try. The UK's biggest problem would (again) be in getting aircraft, ships and troops into the area fast enough to offset (or contain) any invasion attempt.

Naturally, the UN would be totally useless and would spend days discussing which 5 star hotel in which exotic city they should book to discuss an agenda for an upcoming meeting about the situation. By the time they finally picked the hotel and date and agenda items, the crisis would probably be over.

About the only way Argentina would try again would be if an occasion arose where the UK was committed to a situation (like the Ukraine/Crimea) or some other crisis that took the majority of their available resources leaving little that could be deployed to the Falklands if needed. Not sure if any of the UK's allies would step up to fill the void if needed.
 

[SheungWan]

22 hours ago, sharktooth said:

It was a vote winner for the bitch. Nothing else.

That may have been true as far as electoral outcomes in the UK is concerned, but the fallout of the war also resulted in the downfall of the Argentinian fascist dictatorship and that was big. This might not be a convenient narrative for the limited visions of some of the UK Left, but there it is.

Edited January 3, 2019 by SheungWan

[Andrew65]

19 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

So I guess you would have just surrendered and left it at that.

No, just that Britain wasn't a superpower, not even close.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Andrew65

[LennyW]

Having been to Rio Gallegos many times in the last two years, latest in November, i can confidently say that me and a couple of my mates could defend the Falklands now (No disrespect to those that fought and died previously), no Argentinians there are in the least bit interested!!!, they all refer to it as the stupid war!!

The Argentine economy is in the gutter right now, the Arg Peso has halved its value in a year ..In Jan 2018 it was 1.752 to the THB now one year later it's 0.8!!

The only threat Argentina is these days is to it'self!!

[ally3220]

20 hours ago, madusa said:

From Asian country ex-colonial, suffered under the imperialists dictatorship now whole country is a shitty police state thanks to all the imperialists hard work in the past. Love to see Argentine get back its property.

"When the Lion is sick the Laughing Hyenas will appear"

 

The Falkland Islands have never belonged to Argentina....sorry you need to read your history:

 

1764 - discovered by Europeans and colonised by France

1765 - British Captain claimed the islands for Britain

1770 - A Spanish fleet arrived forcing the British to leave Port Egmont - almost went to war

1774 - Britain withdrew from many overseas settlements, including Falklands. The Spanish administered the islands until 1811.

1811 - Spain forced to withdraw due to peninsular war.

1833 - Britain returned and have administered the islands since that date

1982 - Argentina invades "Malvinas" because it's theirs! No it's not and the people want to remain British.

 

I really get sick of people stating things that have no basis in truth. I was serving at the time of the Falklands War and I can tell you that we were really lucky to win.

 

[Brunolem]

20 hours ago, transam said:

Yet one of the top financial countries in the world via a small population...Why is that...?

Fraud elevated as a virtue (just check what lies behind the City's curtains)... 

[bendejo]

4 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Dont qoute me on it ,but he told me there were British and Argentine soldiers caught in houses getting it on with each other,he said his mates raided a house and they actually caught them in the act.

 

Which ones were on top? 

I lived in San Francisco for some years, and whenever there was any sort of scandal involving such sex, 'the boys' all would nod their heads in unison, knew it all along, knows somebody who did them, etc.  I'm trying to recall specifics, all I can come up with right now is when Magic Johnson tested HIV positive, and when Eddie Murphy was caught picking up a katoey streetwalker in LA.  I would rate that story as barroom chatter.

 

Story going around back during the conflict was the Argies were terrified of the Gurkhas -- when they saw them coming they'd mess in their pants and then run like hell.

 

I haven't been following what goes on in those parts, but there was some talk of possible petroleum deposits near the Fauklands. 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by bendejo

[Kiwiken]

Falklands is not part of Argentina anymore than Taiwan is China or hawaii is usa. The difference is the falklanders have a choice and choose to stay with the U.K . Other places are not allowed freedom of choice.

[joecoolfrog]

21 hours ago, madusa said:

Britain is like a man in his 70s and problem? Erectile dysfunction. Impotence. So when a country is impotence it will try to show something. But if you just give back what belongs to others nobody will say nothing , including me of course. So do the right thing.

Would you like to tell us your country of origin so we might make a comparison. I am far from being Nationalistic but it peeves me when people knock the UK with no good reason it seems other than spite.

A military dictator seized the Falklands , against the wishes of the inhabitants , to divert attention from the economic crisis he had created....yet the UK was in the wrong ?

Edited January 3, 2019 by joecoolfrog

[connda]

If the Falklands was invaded today, Could the UK without help take it back again?

 

Only if they have gotten better at dodging Exocet missiles. 

[joecoolfrog]

23 hours ago, sharktooth said:

It was a vote winner for the bitch. Nothing else.

And what exactly do you think it was for Galtieri ?

Try and get a sense of perspective , compared to her Argentinian counterpart Thatcher was a saint.

Considering he led a death squad that tortured and murdered at will , I think most Argentinians would have been more than happy to have had the ' bitch ' in charge.

[joecoolfrog]

14 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Could be because they made it so easy for the world's rich to hide $$$ trillions in assets, to dodge taxes, and to get away with it...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8

 

Pathetic post !

[maxcorrigan]

13 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I don't think he understands self-determination or even property rights.  I'm not sure where he's from, but he seems to suffer from lack of a classical education.

 

Yes some people on the TVF to go to great lengths to hide their nationality or where they are from, presumably so you can't get back at the poor dears and upset them!

[maxcorrigan]

22 hours ago, madusa said:

From Asian country ex-colonial, suffered under the imperialists dictatorship now whole country is a shitty police state thanks to all the imperialists hard work in the past. Love to see Argentine get back its property.

"When the Lion is sick the Laughing Hyenas will appear"

 

Why don't you just say outright which country you are talking about, or are you ashamed, so leave us to guess, India maybe?

Edited January 3, 2019 by maxcorrigan

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Not to burst any bubbles but Lady Thatcher didn't take the Falklands back alone. 

Her pal Ronald Maximus helped her in significant ways. 

And our glorious French allies meanwhile were helping the Argentinians.

[joecoolfrog]

4 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Not to burst any bubbles but Lady Thatcher didn't take the Falklands back alone. 

Her pal Ronald Maximus helped her in significant ways. 

If you read history books instead of comics you wouldn't print such ridiculous garbage.

Its a matter of record , confirmed by released government papers , that the Falklands was a low point in Thatcher and Reagans ( usually close ) relationship.

He tried his hardest to prevent the re occupation of the islands but was told in no uncertain manner to bugger off.

[Old Croc]

21 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Very true but no aircraft yet on them and no support vessels to ensure their safety in hostile waters.  White elephants both. 

You said no ships, I posted that they are finalizing construction of the two biggest ships ever for the Royal navy, and you responded no aircraft yet - white elephants.

I believe the Queen Elizabeth is currently in the US and the first aircraft are landing on board. I understand it will have up to 40 of a version of F-35s, as well as several helicopters.

When does it cease being a white elephant in your mind?

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, Andrew65 said:

No, just that Britain wasn't a superpower, not even close.

 

Didn't need to be did we !

[alien365]

The UK would send a strongly worded letter and that's about it.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, alien365 said:

The UK would send a strongly worded letter and that's about it.

But that's from an "Aliens" point of view....????