SURVEY: Build the Wall -- Yes or No?

[Lacessit]

23 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Walls work fantastically in prisons.  They work wonderfully around your home.  Imagine a world without walls; you might as well put a cot in a bus station.

They only work if they are staffed with guards. Walls around the home only work in a gated community staffed by security.

Not everyone feels the need for walls. Several residential areas near Chicago and Cleveland I visited years ago didn't even have fences between the houses.

I can't recall any prison that spent $5.7 billion on its walls. I hate to think what expenditure would be required to staff Trump's wall in order to make it effective, and that would be an ongoing cost.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Don't you mean sociopath? Many leaders including great leaders also have or had this in spades. Most of them had some sort of foil or counterbalance, a voice of reason from a respected confidante that kept them reasonably 'sociable' and limited their wildest excesses. With the schism in the GOP rent asunder by his unexpected election, nobody has DJT's 'ear' except possibly his son but that doesn't count for much unless maybe one is playing Monopoly.

 

No psychopath is correct. And a sociopath too, but most definitely a psychopath. 

 

According to the Society for the Study of Psychopathy, psychopath traitsinclude:

• Lack of guilt/remorse
• Lack of empathy
• Lack of deep emotional attachments
• Narcissism
• Superficial charm
• Dishonesty
• Manipulativeness
• Reckless risk-taking

[attrayant]

23 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Walls work fantastically in prisons.  They work wonderfully around your home.

 

There is more at issue here than simply "do they work?"  Another valid question is "are they worth it?"  And we need to know the price to answer that question.

 

Even if they work, I am not going to pay $10,000 per meter to put up a wall around my home.  In my current home, such a wall would cost $1.2 million.  Perhaps now you see why the border wall is being called an expensive boondoggle.  Give me a border wall at $500/meter and we'll talk.

[Berkshire]

13 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

A wall will not have any effect on  drugs, the cartels own jets, submarines, shipping container vessels and countless other means not to mention sightly deeper tunnels will still work no matter how high the wall is

 

Probably Better to spend the cash on important stuff like hospitals etc

[keemapoot]

11 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

There is more at issue here than simply "do they work?"  Another valid question is "are they worth it?"  And we need to know the price to answer that question.

 

Even if they work, I am not going to pay $10,000 per meter to put up a wall around my home.  In my current home, such a wall would cost $1.2 million.  Perhaps now you see why the border wall is being called an expensive boondoggle.  Give me a border wall at $500/meter and we'll talk.

Yes, and again, why have we never been given a comprehensive, well-researched, analytical, quantitatively-justified border security plan (including a wall sure, why not) by Trump. He's had plenty of time, plenty of personnel, money, researchers, and every possible resource a US President and administration could muster to give us and Congress this, and he hasn't done it. Why not? 

 

We just get "build a wall." He wants a blank check to "build a wall." ridiculous. Do you think he ever built a hotel or office building without a thorough feasibility study, articulated business plan, marketing plan, operations plan and most importantly, proforma financials and budget???

[xylophone]

[mcambl61]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Whilst not being the sole factor, decades of US intervention has no relevance?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/12/21/has-united-states-foreign-policy-central-america-fueled-migrant-crisis-donald-trump/2338489002/

 

As an alternative to being a blow hard why not research current US policy for Central America, challenges and so on. A few links...

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10371.pdf

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R44812.pdf

So because I disagree with you I am a blow hard? 

Did I say anytime the US interventions ever did any good?

Why is it the liberals think we should always spend more money to solve other peoples problems?

Where has that ever really worked out?

But then trying to spend a tiny fraction on the countries own border security is somehow wrong, amazing

 

 

 

[mcambl61]

21 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

Yes, and again, why have we never been given a comprehensive, well-researched, analytical, quantitatively-justified border security plan (including a wall sure, why not) by Trump. He's had plenty of time, plenty of personnel, money, researchers, and every possible resource a US President and administration could muster to give us and Congress this, and he hasn't done it. Why not? 

 

We just get "build a wall." He wants a blank check to "build a wall." ridiculous. Do you think he ever built a hotel or office building without a thorough feasibility study, articulated business plan, marketing plan, operations plan and most importantly, proforma financials and budget???

so the CBP management says it is needed, the type and where. Is that not enough?

[keemapoot]

Just now, mcambl61 said:

so the CBP management says it is needed, the type and where. Is that not enough?

Absolutely not. Never. Nobody gets anything until they show the feasibility, the use of funds, and without backing it up with research to justify it. Trump knows this. Why is he willing to play loose and fast with taxpayer money, when he wouldn't do that with his own money?

[Jingthing]

Americans Beware -- this fight for the "trump" wall is nothing less than a fight against transformation of the USA into a "trump" dictatorship.

He couldn't get it started legislatively when he controlled all of congress.

Now he just lost the house in a very dramatic fashion -- by the biggest popular vote margin in American history. 

Now he's desperate. Now he's inventing national emergencies that do not exist. This isn't about a wall. It's about saving the USA from autocracy by a race baiting demagogue. 
The democrats are 100 percent correct to resist this takeover at all costs. Don't give him an inch of his dictator wall! Get it normally which he can't or be a normal American president and accept the loss. If "trump" somehow wins this, the future of the American democracy loses. It was more fragile than we thought. There were protections to avoid electing a dictator wannabe in place but they weren't strong enough. 

 

Quote

The ill-fated symbolism of Trump’s wall

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/01/14/ill-fated-symbolism-trumps-wall/

 

[puukao]

if caught in the country illegally:

 

1.  all assets taken

2.  employer fined minimum 50,000

3.  employer's second offense, assets taken

4.  then go after relatives or anyone helping the illegal

5.  go after anyone renting to illegal, etc...

6.  give money to people reporting on illegals

7.  fine the country where the illegal is from, up to 50,000 a year if illegal imprisoned.

8.  immediate deportation once proven in country illegally

9.  then figure out how to send the medical bills to the embassies of the illegals.  

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, puukao said:

if caught in the country illegally:

 

1.  all assets taken

2.  employer fined minimum 50,000

3.  employer's second offense, assets taken

4.  then go after relatives or anyone helping the illegal

5.  go after anyone renting to illegal, etc...

6.  give money to people reporting on illegals

7.  fine the country where the illegal is from, up to 50,000 a year if illegal imprisoned.

8.  immediate deportation once proven in country illegally

9.  then figure out how to send the medical bills to the embassies of the illegals.  

 

 

Don't be silly. Republicans don't ever want to punish employers for the cheap illegal labor that their big business interests exploit. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

So because I disagree with you I am a blow hard? 

Did I say anytime the US interventions ever did any good?

Why is it the liberals think we should always spend more money to solve other peoples problems?

Where has that ever really worked out?

But then trying to spend a tiny fraction on the countries own border security is somehow wrong, amazing

Your language over a number of topics is certainly "blow hard".

 

As suggested by other members trump really should stop his 'blow hard' misinformation and lies concerning the border and other issues. trump even lied outright during his national address. How can anyone with a brain still support his nonsense? IMO present a road map for border security, DACA and illegals to get buy-in and cohesion, not the awful trend towards authoritarianism & gut feeling isolated tactical decisions from trump. trump rabbiting on about $5.6 billion which will only provide additional security for a small portion of the proposed barrier really is ridiculous, doesn't appear to be an ounce  of strategic thinking from trump. Using US government workers as a blackmail tool is outrageous, IMO sufficient to remove him from the Presidency. However, that would put pence in power...

[puukao]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Don't be silly. Republicans don't ever want to punish employers for the cheap illegal labor that they exploit. 

if they think it will get them re-elected, they will.  that is the most important thing.  of course, depends on the employer.  if too big to fine, then they do deals...  

 

all smoke-and-mirrors anyhow..

 

i don't think America has reached the tipping point on really going after illegals, yet.  but it will happen.  maybe in 100-years, who knows.  but it will happen.  

 

there are more pressing matters right now, i'm sure.  

 

this wall thing is just a distraction.  

 

illegals simply don't affect the masses, or rich people, to such an extent it can't be overlooked.  Maybe I'll worry more about it in 10-years, but i doubt it.  20?  doubt it.  30?  LOL.  who cares.  

 

 

[Longcut]

21 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

High enough to stop airplanes from flying in?  Because that's how most undocumented immigrants get in.

How can an undocumented immigrant get on an international flight and land at an international airport? Did they give themselves a visa?

[Longcut]

All Trump has to do is claim that he changed his mind and will not allow a wall to be built.  It would be built in about a month at the demands of Pelosi and Schumer.????

[mcambl61]

22 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Your language over a number of topics is certainly "blow hard".

 

As suggested by other members trump really should stop his 'blow hard' misinformation and lies concerning the border and other issues. trump even lied outright during his national address. How can anyone with a brain still support his nonsense? IMO present a road map for border security, DACA and illegals to get buy-in and cohesion, not the awful trend towards authoritarianism & gut feeling isolated tactical decisions from trump. trump rabbiting on about $5.6 billion which will only provide additional security for a small portion of the proposed barrier really is ridiculous, doesn't appear to be an ounce  of strategic thinking from trump. Using US government workers as a blackmail tool is outrageous, IMO sufficient to remove him from the Presidency. However, that would put pence in power...

your condescending remarks and attitude are no less of a degree of being a  "blowhard" 

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, Longcut said:

All Trump has to do is claim that he changed his mind and will not allow a wall to be built.  It would be built in about a month at the demands of Pelosi and Schumer.????

I wouldn't put it past him to be unintelligent enough to follow your advice.

[taichiplanet]

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, Longcut said:

How can an undocumented immigrant get on an international flight and land at an international airport? Did they give themselves a visa?

 

If they have a visa, they they're documented, aren't they?  If you were to take a census of all the undocumented immigrants presently in the country, you'd find that most of them came in legally, by air or other legal point of entry. 

[EVENKEEL]

6 hours ago, JMSIII said:

I find it to be amazing that so many people here are so wrong, not even close to understanding what a wall would prevent.  I have seen guys explain sanctuary cites accurately, only to have individuals question and doubt them, or even tell them they are wrong.  Most people who have no idea of the truth, are only getting their information from the corrupt, treasonous, fake news of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc...   They are not reporting the reality and truth of what is going on at the southern border.  They are controlled by the deep state, cabal, whatever you want to call them.  They are not honest, independent news agencies!

 

I have to politely ask people here who only want to bash Trump, and bash any notion of a wall.  Have you any personal experience with illegals?  Have you ever had to deal with the criminal behavior of the illegals?  Have you ever dealt with any victims of the illegals?

 

I'm willing to bet your answer will be, no you have not.  With that being said, it's sad because there are very good, honest people just trying to make a buck to send back home for their families in Mexico.

 

When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's in California, we had illegal Mexicans all over working seasonal jobs.  It was not a big deal.  Only became a big deal in later years, when hospitals and clinics were being forced into bankruptcy, and then eventually closing their doors for good.  Because of all of the unpaid medical bills from the illegals.  You would go into almost any emergency room, on any given day and time, they would be filled with non English speaking illegals.  Being treated for a cold, to broken bones, births, gun shot wounds, etc.  You name it, and they were getting top medical care free.  This is what started our medical insurance, and our medical costs to become so expensive.  Somebody had to pay, and that was Americans with medical insurance and jobs.

 

There is a Federal law that states if you walk into a hospital, you must be treated.  Illegal Mexicans ran up hundreds of millions of dollars in bills, without paying.

Good, accurate opinion. TDS clouds people's logical thinking on this forum as well as Nancy and chuck.

[Hummin]

Some have some study to do

 

In the context of crime, victimization, and immigration in the United States, research shows that people are afraid of immigrants because they think immigrants are a threat to their safety and engage in many violent and property crimes. However, quantitative research has consistently shown that being foreign born is negatively associated with crime overall and is not significantly associated with committing either violent or property crime. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for a criminal offense, it tends to be for a misdemeanor. Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves

 

Please continue reading here 

http://oxfordre.com/criminology/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93

Edited January 14, 2019 by Hummin

[MyFriend You]

11 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Are 100 days missing because they don't patrol on weekends?

???? ???? ???? ????

[utalkin2me]

Trumps numbers are going down daily.

 

This is like Lee Trevino walking to the 18th green with a three stroke lead ten feet from the hole. The only thing the democrats need to do is keep showing up. There is no way to blow it, unless they five putt from ten feet or something. 

[Credo]

Please explain how a wall can be built on some of this terrain and how it can be built without depriving the residents of the use of the water from the Rio Grande.   

 

 

[Scott]

Baiting, bickering posts and replies that have nothing to do with the topic (the topic isn't about you or what you think of another member), have been removed.

 

Please stay on topic.  

[wayned]

7 minutes ago, Credo said:

Please explain how a wall can be built on some of this terrain and how it can be built without depriving the residents of the use of the water from the Rio Grande.   

 

 

Very simple!  Build the wall down the center of the Rio Grande.  It would be an architectural  accomplishment that might qualify as text wonder of the world"!  THis is the kind of crap that the US citizens continue to put up with their elected officials whose only concern is where their next paycheck is coming from!  Speaking of paychecks ............!  What a joke!

[Tug]

Donald just might get his wall but not the one he wants lol I see one of two types of walls for him one he is locked up behind or one he is stood in front of if you catch my drift all depends on what mr muller finds

[manarak]

I don't care about Trump's wall, I'm not even american.

 

But: I read reports that people are crossing the border illegally, and the numbers seem to be huge:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44319094

60.000 people get stopped every month attempting to cross the border.

 

what I don't understand is why is the border is not appropriately secured ?

 

60.000 people each month to catch and then to handle, process, etc. must cause huge costs to the taxpayer ?

 

what about those who succeed?

 

Quote

Apprehensions at the south-western border peaked in 2000, at 1.64 million.

In total, Pew estimates that in 2016, there were 10.7 million unauthorised immigrants living in the US.

 

[JMSIII]

12 hours ago, Becker said:

And I find it amazing that you wrote that longish post in support of a wall without even one single argument for why it should be built.

I find it amazing you didn't answer any of the questions.  If you would/could have answered any of the questions in the second paragraph, then you would see one of the arguments.  If you can understand the damage that was done to our medical institutions in the fourth paragraph, you would see another argument.

 

It just goes to prove so many here talk so much "stuff" about what you know nothing about. I'm not willing to go into every little specific detail for this board.  In person, yes, I'm willing to go into the details.  

 

I have personally been involved with every single question that I asked in the second paragraph.  I have personally seen the damaging effect on our hospitals and clinics.  

 

Again, I will ask.  Have you had any personal experience with any of the questions I asked, or seen any major trauma hospitals, or clinics close?