BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Pattaya46]

45 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If that had been the system all along, many would not have bought condos, and put the money in the bank, instead.

The worst part of this is that there is no grandfathering - embassy-letters go away …//

No they didn't go away, and how could it be any grandfathering?

Thai Immigration cannot force UK & US embassies to provide Income Letters. 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I've always done the 800 money in the bank although my pension is enough to do it that way also.  I've never met anyone who had problems at Jomtien. 

For retirement, Jomtien has a record of not adding "extra requirements" and other dirty-tricks.  For that extension at that office, there are parallel tracks for honest and agent-based (similar to Chang Wattana). 

 

But, for marriage-based or Non-O stamps there, expect big problems trying to do an honest application.

 

Per reports, some other locations, like Phuket, are troublesome for retirement extensions as well as other types. 

 

 

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You also suggest people hand over their ATM card and the PIN to some stranger/ agent. 

That is what some have reported here.  They get it back after the money xfers, of course - presumably with their passport and fresh extension-of-stay.

 

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

What I have not seen mentioned here is that many IOs want to see the bank account  , holding the 800K baht , to be active i.e. money in & out on a regular basis . Therefore we are talking in excess of 8ook to the extent of not falling below 800k which if that did happen would disqualify you ?  800k is not enough . more like 850-900k and the remaining 6 months 450 - 500k

Visa issued  at the 1st stage of having the 800k in the bank for 3 months . Do they have a crystal ball for the next 9 months ?

There is no checking of seasoning currently for agent-submitted applications, and I doubt that will change.  Perhaps a 2nd bank-letter routine might be added, with additional fees and splitting of the loot with immigration.

 

 

1 hour ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Reading all the comments here - I feel sorry for some friends of mine who have retired here since years - who are wonderful people, have integrated well into the local communities and Thailand is lucky to have them but they are struggling to fulfill the financial requirements with a fixed income and falling exchange rates.

 

Living here for whatever reason they might have - Having done nothing wrong but spending whatever they have in this country - they are the ones who have no choice but use corrupt officials and agents because they might be just short of a few thousand baht a month in income.

You do not have to be "short of funds" to need an agent to get a legit-extension, as I found out, while following all the rules, and having embassy-letter plus backup proof of deposits of my income (well over the minimum). 

 

While the "just a bit short" cases are indeed tragic, they are only a percentage of those married to a Thai whom immigration forces to agents by continually ratcheting-up the number of hoops one needs to jump-through.  Enabling expanded corruption is the driving-force here - not fighting it, as advertised.

 

Quote

But what does one expect in a country where for so many material things are all they desire - constantly unhappy, cheating, greedy, corrupt, boring people who all pray to one god - MONEY!

Please do not confuse good Thai people with the clique of bad-apple vultures operating within immigration.   The Thais I know and deal with on a daily basis are not like that at all, and they do not respect those who do operate with that mindset. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by JackThompson

[madmen]

You are wrong up until recently i could not put 800K in a thai bank account but i do have a 4m house here and had a house and flat in the Uk lucky for me i have sold the house in the Uk.
Also why is it a problem for some people that not everyone had a lot of money, some people just want a better life here than they would have in there home country, they are still contributing to the Thai economy, 

I never said everyone. I said most
My comment was in reply ONLY to the nonsense post of the real estate sector and the thai economy

[Olmate]

13 minutes ago, madmen said:

Tired of what? Just put your 800k in a bank. Not rocket science.

The pensioners with no cash will leave. It won't collapse the real estate sector or effect the economy one.single.. Bit
 

So where does my spend of 50K or 60K go if not into the economy, and I,m sure you know the multiplier of 1 dollar spent theory?

[InsertNameHere]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:35 PM, madmitch said:

And I thought the 800,000 baht was for living expenses, not as an interest earner for the Thai banks!

 

 

That is quite funny you mention that since the money can not be touched for anything for 3 months and when you do it has to be maintained so It's nothing more than about MONEY and Interests for the banks same goes with marriage in any country these ideas are all MONEY makers and it is big business for many involved. There is nothing more to any of the laws cause it only ways to generate funds for thai government or governments not for living as I could live on far less as cost of living for me would not be a problem. Living now a days is all about money and if the person does not have it then that person or persons is s.o.l. no matter where you are at in the world.....

[mistral53]

39 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Unfortunately he didn't clear his holster and could have possibly shot himself in the foot.

Good one........made me laugh out loud and bring me back to sanity.....hehehe

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Some reasonably good news. Just did a £100 transfer from First Direct to my Bkk Bank Savings. Arrived four hours later at Bkk Banks TT rate and the statement said International Transfer. 

Will do the same via T'wise now.

A question of you please Mr Danson....................

 

I get a part pension paid from the UK into my account here, however it comes through the Bangkok bank branch in London (don't know if it's really a branch or more a service?). The pension service pay it into this account and it ends up in my bank account here, the only problem being it doesn't say anything about being an international transfer!

 

Whereas my part pension from NZ, paid directly into Bangkok bank here, does state that it's an international transfer.

 

I don't have a UK bank account now and haven't had for many years; so my question to you is after reading through these posts, much as I have done over the past 24 hours and still only got to page 83, have you come across any information which specifically says that the bank statement here has to show it as an international transfer, or is it okay just to show money into the account?

 

Another question for you (hope you don't mind) or others, is whether or not the pension service will pay directly into my account here and if so, what are the charges – – or indeed are there any other avenues, as I think you mentioned something called Transfer Wise, however I am not au fait with this service.

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, wayned said:

For the monthly income option the order, as I read it , says that you have to have a letter from your bank stating that $XXXX.XX was deposited every month

Per reports to-date, just a bank-book or bank statement will do - plus the usual bank-letter which the 'money in the bank' folks already supply.

 

3 hours ago, wayned said:

There is no mention of the "combination" method or what the requirements are for keeping money in the bank after the application, or even is it is still an option.

The last change (deposits replacing embassy-letters) didn't address the combo, but should not have affected it, though some IOs immediately began claiming it didn't exist as an option any more. 

This brand new order re-states the combo as an option, but it is not clear how the money seasoning post-application would work in conjunction with the income-portion and new-seasoning rules.   Half the "money in the bank portion" or "400K baht minimum" or ???

 

It is almost as if the rules are purposely vague, to give bad-apple IOs as much leeway as possible to shaft honest applicants trying to do the "right thing."  Maybe there will be a clarification, but why not get it right the first time?

 

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Are you saying the new change 800 after and 400 all year was made so the IO's can extort money directly without using an agent? 

 

The facts and events don't support that hypothesis. 

 

The new changes eliminate the agent as operated before.  

Accepting money directly is risky - applicant could be wearing a wire, etc. 

I do not see how this eliminates agents.  The IOs working with agents ignore the existing seasoning rules in exchange for agent-money, and will likely continue with the same routine.  Maybe another "insta-money" letter is added.  We will know more when it is explained exactly how the post-application verification works - but if like every other so-called "crackdown," it just means "more expensive corruption."

 

If they wanted to end faked-money applications, all they needed to do was make agents illegal, and fire the crooked IOs who have been "overlooking" missing seasoning for agents since the seasoning-rule was first introduced.  This new change just hurts the honest.

[fulhamster]

12 minutes ago, xylophone said:

get a part pension paid from the UK into my account here, however it comes through the Bangkok bank branch in London (don't know if it's really a branch or more a service?). The pension service pay it into this account and it ends up in my bank account here, the only problem being it doesn't say anything about being an international transfer!

 

 

Maybe because it's being sent from BKK Bank so it's considered an internal transfer, even though it's going from the UK to Thailand.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

Interesting graphic. Thais in the US send back $1.7 billion/year to Thailand from the US. And they don't have their bank accounts monitored for a minimum amount or restricted in anyway. 

And every remittance is a dollar not spent into the USA economy - literally sucked out of it, destroying American jobs for citizens, plus the ones taken-directly by the foreigner working there.  Meanwhile, we are spending Foreign Capital INTO Thailand. 

 

That is why the visa/entry rules are different, for anyone still trying to play that old saw.

 

6 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

It's hard not to think that Thai de-employment is an intentional part of the plan. Foreigners come here and overpay the locals, marry them, buy them houses and take care of their families--often for little or nothing in return. That's not "market-based economy"--that's socialism! Foreigners here upset the social order. How are wealthier Thais to exploit poorer Thais, if dumb foreigners come here and throw around free money?!

They have Cambodians and Burmese to exploit as wage-slaves now.  Immigration is handing out "L" visas to ensure that working-class Thai wages do not rise, and Thais cannot get good-paying jobs in construction, etc.  The foreign-worker's public-hospital health-insurance is also subsidized by the govt (corporate welfare), while we (money-importers) cannot buy into it at any price (unless taking a Thai job, and ceasing to import wealth to Thailand).  A chunk of foreigner's paychecks are "remitted out," similar to the above graphic for the USA. 

 

As a direct-result, Thais are now being pushed out of jobs they used to get - construction, maids, cooking, etc - while remittances lower the amount of money recycled from paychecks back into the local economy, which closes-off Thai business opportunities.  This state of affairs is A-OK with officialdom - same as in my passport-country, where this same pattern has also occurred (again, see above graphic). 

 

They are trying to deflect the backlash by targeting Thai's anger over this at us - so they can continue suppressing labor-costs to maintain a permanent underclass, while attempting to blame non-slave-useful foreigners (who spend foreign-money INTO the economy) for the problem.  You are correct, in that our spending pushes up the middle-class, which some elites see as a "problem," to the future of more-profitable wage-slavery.  But, Thais can see who is paying-in to the economy, and who is taking their jobs, so I don't think this ruse will fool them for long.

[wgdanson]

Hi xylo. I don't really know as I get my UK State Pension paid into my UK account (Shhhhh). So I can transfer from First Direct or via Transferwise, both giving roughly the same rate eventually. Those transfers come into my Bkk Bank as International Transfers. I know some people have had them come in and not stated as such, but in my experience, they do. Immigration regulations say that the 65k monthly, or other regular deposits must originate abroad. I would hope that if you had a deposit from abroad which did not say International or the code FFT, but you could show your friendly IO a statement from your UK bank that the exact amout was debited from that account one day previous to an amount arriving in your Thai bank, they would accept it. I would hope, I said. 

As far as I know the UK State Pension can be paid into a Thai account but the question is whether it would be converted into Bht in UK (bad) or here (better).

Google Transferwise Borderless Account. You could get your pension paid into something like that and transfer into Bht as and when the exchange rate is better. Or transfer to a Foreign Currency Account here and do the same as and when you want/need some Bht.

Hope this is some help. I am sure I will get told if it is not !

[bkk6060]

24 minutes ago, Olmate said:

So where does my spend of 50K or 60K go if not into the economy, and I,m sure you know the multiplier of 1 dollar spent theory?

Yes, but minimal.

You do not even qualify if retired to stay here legally on that amount.

So, technically now, they do not want someone with that minimal income living here.

 

[madmen]

So where does my spend of 50K or 60K go if not into the economy, and I,m sure you know the multiplier of 1 dollar spent theory?

Again it won't crash the economy. Emphasis on crash. It won't crash the real estate sector. Condo ownership of those forced out through lack of funds will be minimal

 

I'm not judging anyone or putting down those without funds, I've mentioned plenty times those with families should find any way they can to stay here even if it's loop holes . I'm just stating facts.

 

Im replying the poster jack Thompson who keeps droning on about his cheap 8k condo in jomtien is a direct result of a mass exodus

 

Poor guy doesn't realise 8 to 10k condos are a EVERYWHERE in jomtien even high floor .. Too funny

 

[peterg40]

My visit to Huahin Immigration yesterday CONFIRMED, after conversations with 2 senior Officers,

that ,absolutely NOTHING has changed with regard to visa extensions based on Retirement.

Indeed, they gave me a printed 

leaflet headed ,Retirement Visa.

Regulation & Required Documents.

This leaflet which is available to 

everyone absolutely confirms that the 

current requirements have not 

changed!!!

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I get a part pension paid from the UK into my account here, however it comes through the Bangkok bank branch in London (don't know if it's really a branch or more a service?). The pension service pay it into this account and it ends up in my bank account here, the only problem being it doesn't say anything about being an international transfer!

It should be coded as FTT. (Foreign Telex Transfer)

 

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Another question for you (hope you don't mind) or others, is whether or not the pension service will pay directly into my account here and if so, what are the charges – – or indeed are there any other avenues, as I think you mentioned something called Transfer Wise, however I am not au fait with this service.

Yes they will.

There are no charges. 

Again with BKK it will be coded as FTT.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, peterg40 said:

My visit to Huahin Immigration yesterday CONFIRMED, after conversations with 2 senior Officers,

that ,absolutely NOTHING has changed with regard to visa extensions based on Retirement.

Indeed, they gave me a printed 

leaflet headed ,Retirement Visa.

Regulation & Required Documents.

This leaflet which is available to 

everyone absolutely confirms that the 

current requirements have not 

changed!!!

That's really silly and not meaningful as this new thing for 800K bank applications isn't supposed to start until March. So the info you were given is relevant now, but so what?

Did you ask them about their acceptance of income applications (including combo) for applicants without embassy letters? They should be ready to accept those, well the full 65K baht ones anyway, but my impression is that most offices are being very slow about that.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, peterg40 said:

My visit to Huahin Immigration yesterday CONFIRMED, after conversations with 2 senior Officers,

that ,absolutely NOTHING has changed with regard to visa extensions based on Retirement.

Indeed, they gave me a printed 

leaflet headed ,Retirement Visa.

Regulation & Required Documents.

This leaflet which is available to 

everyone absolutely confirms that the 

current requirements have not 

changed!!!

They probably have just not heard about the changes yet.

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, madmen said:

Im replying the poster jack Thompson who keeps droning on about his cheap 8k condo in jomtien is a direct result of a mass exodus

 

Poor guy doesn't realise 8 to 10k condos are a EVERYWHERE in jomtien even high floor .. Too funny

I know they are available everywhere.  That's My Point Exactly.  And, that they were not available at this price a few years ago, before immigration's "crackdowns" on Western Tourists began - now being extended to long-stay folks. 

I feel sorry for those who bought condos, and now cannot get anywhere close to their money back by selling, cannot earn a decent ROI renting them (if they can even find a renter), and are simultaneously being squeezed by immigration.

Edited February 2, 2019 by JackThompson

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

They probably have just not heard about the changes yet.

I don't blame immigration offices for failures to integrate these new orders so soon. The changes are both radical and very confusing as to how to actually enforce them. Most extremely for income method applications for those without embassy letters. It's pretty shocking what a mess this is. I've been following these changes for over a decade and this recent stuff takes the cake. Prospective retired expats should be warned about what they're getting themselves into! Older people shouldn't be expected to have to deal with such constant chaos and uncertainty as they age abroad. It's become impossible to even have confidence in preparing for your NEXT extension, much less subsequent years.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, peterg40 said:

Indeed, they gave me a printed leaflet headed ,Retirement Visa. Regulation & Required Documents.

This leaflet which is available to everyone absolutely confirms that the current requirements have not changed!!!

What is the date on this leaflet?

Don't you have a way to post it here ?

[Pib]

2 hours ago, dayo202 said:

This Message is from the KEY VISA Facebook page.. please don't shoot the messenger.

Latest News ???????? we believe the new rules for retirement visa applications will not affect applicants who have had a retirement visa issued in the last 10 years, this new rule is aimed at new applicants ????????

News yet to be confirmed but looking good ????

Doubtful.  Probably miscommunication between some people.  Yes, the new rules doesn't go into effect until 1 March 19....apply before then the rule does not apply to your application....apply 1 March or later and it does unless covered by a grandfather rule. 

 

If people were going to be grandfathered the police order would have specifically said such like how it says for those folks who applied before 1998 and consecutively maintained their retirement extension (never had a break) are grandfather.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Pib

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I know they are available everywhere.  That's My Point Exactly.  And, that they were not available at this price a few years ago, before immigration's "crackdowns" on Western Tourists began - now being extended to long-stay folks. 

I feel sorry for those who bought condos, and now cannot get anywhere close to their money back by selling, cannot earn a decent ROI renting them (if they can even find a renter), and are simultaneously being squeezed by immigration.

He has a point - historically,  I noticed in my condo (BKK CBD) that just as they tightened up visas AirBnB became a thing and took up the slack.

Edited February 2, 2019 by mokwit

[madmen]

I know they are available everywhere.  That's My Point Exactly.  And, that they were not available at this price a few years ago, before immigration's "crackdowns" on Western Tourists began - now being extended to long-stay folks. 

 

I feel sorry for those who bought condos, and now cannot get anywhere close to their money back by selling, cannot earn a decent ROI renting them (if they can even find a renter), and are simultaneously being squeezed by immigration.

Your dreaming. 8 to 10k studios on view talay building have been available for the last decade! They have never been 15k like you mentioned in a previous post

 

Your deal is normal for jomtien because nothing happens there. It's dead after high season dude lol

 

It's kind of sweet how naive you are

 

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't blame immigration offices for failures to integrate these new orders so soon. The changes are both radical and very confusing as to how to actually enforce them. Most extremely for income method applications for those without embassy letters. It's pretty shocking what a mess this is. I've been following these changes for over a decade and this recent stuff takes the cake. Prospective retired expats should be warned about what they're getting themselves into! Older people shouldn't be expected to have to deal with such constant chaos and uncertainty as they age abroad. It's become impossible to even have confidence in preparing for your NEXT extension, much less subsequent years.

Basically at one time they wanted retirees as evidenced by inclusion in 1979 act and then later lowering age to 50. Now it seems they are not so keen..............................

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

Basically at one time they wanted retirees as evidenced by inclusion in 1979 act and then later lowering age to 50. Now it seems they are not so keen..............................

I think you were replying to the wrong post.

[trainman34014]

18 minutes ago, madmen said:

Again it won't crash the economy. Emphasis on crash. It won't crash the real estate sector. Condo ownership of those forced out through lack of funds will be minimal

 

I'm not judging anyone or putting down those without funds, I've mentioned plenty times those with families should find any way they can to stay here even if it's loop holes . I'm just stating facts.

 

Im replying the poster jack Thompson who keeps droning on about his cheap 8k condo in jomtien is a direct result of a mass exodus

 

Poor guy doesn't realise 8 to 10k condos are a EVERYWHERE in jomtien even high floor .. Too funny

 

You can get a nice 4 bedroom house for 10k in Chiang Mai overlooking Mountain scenery !

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

Wrong. You keep sprouting the same nonsense.. The rules mostly negatively effect the poorer farang eg pensioners with no savings.

These are not and never will be condo buyers. If they don't have 800k then they won't have 5 to 10 million baht for a condo.

 

Most are in cheap 4 to 6k shoebox rooms because it's all they can afford.. It's just common sense

 

 

 

Some people will be hurt. For others, including me, it's the provision locking up 400,000 baht forever, or until you leave. In effect, TI has just appropriated 400K baht of your money. The thing is I wouldn't object, if the 400K was kept "locked" as some sort of health insurance requirement, where you could access it in a medical emergency. But that isn't what is happening. The banks through TI are simply taking 400K and keeping it until you die or leave. Virtual theft.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:18 PM, DrTuner said:

Let me guess, they want to copy the 30 day "waiting period" to get the final stamp from the marriage extensions next. After that add photos of yourself next to your bed, etc. Enjoy the "easy retirement extensions", soon as painful as the marriage extensions.

Plus, as the fund requirement for retirement is twice that for marriage: a photo of each h****r you spent the extra 400,000 baht for... ????

Edited February 2, 2019 by StayinThailand2much

[Olmate]

24 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, but minimal.

You do not even qualify if retired to stay here legally on that amount.

So, technically now, they do not want someone with that minimal income living here.

 

I said spend not income and yes I am legally here, technically too!

[Roy Baht]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

our spending pushes up the middle-class, which some elites see as a "problem," to the future of more-profitable wage-slavery.

But it's not just an economic problem, it's a social one, and the backlash comes not only from elites.  Thais are extremely status conscious and believe in maintaining a social hierarchy. Nothing upsets a hard-working middle class Thai more than the sight of someone they view as "socially inferior" being showered with wealth. They see it as deeply unfair. And envy is no small force in Thai society.