And another issue at airport : w re-entry retirement legit visa

[Pilotman]

11 minutes ago, garyk said:

Kinda like an American traveling to China or Thailand... ????

Like any of us travelling to those places. 

[Gecko123]

The OP claims to have entered Thailand 16 times before, and to have never experienced a problem before. This previous travel history without incident suggests to me that the OP's account deserves being treated as credible. Other posters on this and other threads (including me) have similarly reported running into a buzz saw with immigration in recent weeks and months. It's also been well documented on other threads that recent changes in rules are not being enforced consistently from one office to the next. So the possibility that an immigration officer at Don Muang might be quizzing a re-entering expat about his travel within Thailand or asking he provide his updated bank passbook upon arrival isn't particularly far fetched. Everything recounted on TVF can be discounted as "only one side of the story" if it suits one's purposes. These "well-it-hasn't-happened-to-me -- and-until-it-does -- I-prefer-to-preen-like-I'm-just-a-more-sophisticated-well-adjusted-worldly-traveller-than-you" types on this thread make me want to gag. And as far as this argument that it's part of immigration's job to make you squirm by peppering you with unexpected demands, visitors to another country have a right to know beforehand what is expected, and to be allowed to prepare what is expected. 

[Otis Cribelcoblis]

2 hours ago, SammyT said:

I guess that puts me in the minority on these boards...

Speak for yourself ...

[GreenerGrass]

It sounds like her main bone of contention was the fact that you have been so many places in Thailand? How did she come to the conclusion that you have been to many places in Thailand by looking at your passport? 

[Otis Cribelcoblis]

Just now, GreenerGrass said:

It sounds like her main bone of contention was the fact that you have been so many places in Thailand? How did she come to the conclusion that you have been to many places in Thailand by looking at your passport? 

Perhaps he likes to visit different airports.

[nightfox]

As so many have said "AVOID FEMALE IO LIKE THE PLAGUE"

[GreenerGrass]

3 minutes ago, Otis Cribelcoblis said:

Perhaps he likes to visit different airports.

It started with : ho no, write the extension number, not the visa number (it’s written visa number on the TM thing form), not in a friendly way, no sabadi kap either for a start...

And then she started to reproach me to have been in many different places in Thailand ! That’s a first news 

 

No mention of airports? 

[Otis Cribelcoblis]

Just now, GreenerGrass said:

No mention of airports? 

I mentioned airports.

[Otis Cribelcoblis]

2 minutes ago, nightfox said:

As so many have said "AVOID FEMALE IO LIKE THE PLAGUE"

Female cops too.  How about we just take the vote from the females.  I'd vote for that.

[SammyT]

13 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Everything recounted on TVF can be discounted as "only one side of the story" if it suits one's purposes. These "well-it-hasn't-happened-to-me -- and-until-it-does -- I-prefer-to-preen-like-I'm-just-a-more-sophisticated-well-adjusted-worldly-traveller-than-you" types on this thread make me want to gag.

It hasn't happened to me to that scale, but if it does, given I have nothing to hide, I certainly won't lose sleep about an overzealous immigration officer. Nothing to do with me feeling I'm more sophisticated, adjusted or worldly. I've been asked questions by IOs before, answered them pleasantly and honestly and been let through. Never crossed my mind to come on here and whinge about it as if it was the worst thing that has happened in my life. 

 

The way the OP is banging on about it, you'd think he was thrown in the immigration detention centre for 6 weeks or something.  

[Gecko123]

4 minutes ago, GreenerGrass said:

It sounds like her main bone of contention was the fact that you have been so many places in Thailand? How did she come to the conclusion that you have been to many places in Thailand by looking at your passport? 

The TM-30 Housemaster immigration form is required to be completed by anyone (including hotels and guesthouses) with a foreigner as an overnight houseguest. So when you check in to a hotel, and the front desk clerk asks for a copy of your passport, if they are following immigration guidelines, they are required to report your stay to immigration. That's how the Don Muang IO knew about the OP's travel within Thailand. Some immigration offices (including mine) are also requiring that upon returning to your regular residence in Thailand from a trip within Thailand, the housemaster has to re-report that you are living in your regular residence. The housemaster is also required to re-report your return following any overseas trips. If the immigration department sees that you have travelled outside of Thailand (and in some provinces within Thailand), they will know that the housemaster has not reported your return as required. If you weren't aware of this, welcome to the New World Order.

[ravip]

Thailand does not care anymore about expats.

To be honest, yes it definitely seems so. Should anyone be surprised? Now, I am NOT generalising here, but the way many Westerners behave, they definitely deserve it. Especially at long immigration queues, when a Westerner is asked for the Departure/Arrival card that he had misplaced or forgotten, the reaction is absolutely hilarious, to put it very mildly... Eyes rolled up, face snarling, hands spread out and telling all and sundry "OOhhhh my God"!

People will not tolerate arrogance always and every time. It is time up for Westerners (not all) to realise that they are not Gods gift to mankind and rules apply to them too. What gives them the special right to be arrogant? Just read the majority of posts here at TVF and it should be simple enough for you to realise what I am trying to say.

 

Yes! Not ONLY Thailand that does not care anymore about Western expats, but many other 3rd world developing countries too have the same feeling.

 

Time up for a behavioural change, me thinks. Blaming the Chinese, Russians, Indians are whinings of the desperate and the losers.

 

[ravip]

16 minutes ago, nightfox said:

As so many have said "AVOID FEMALE IO LIKE THE PLAGUE"

ONLY the female IO's? ços the majority visit TH for the females...

[ravip]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

As an American- I expect US Immigration Officers to provide a simple smile to myself and all entrants and to calmly and politely ask any questions they need to ask.

I do not expect to be interrogated as a potential criminal; to be asked for things that are not normal (like my bank book) or to have documents thrown back at me.  I also do not expert to be scolded as to why I would  go to various domestic locations in the country when I am a temporary visitor.

I also expect an Immigration Officer to say Welcome Home when I return to my own country or Welcome to Thailand when I enter Thailand.   Unfortunately, it no longer happens anywhere.

Have a look at the Visa application for an undeveloped, 3rd world citizen to visit the USA and other 'developed' countries! You will understand the height of development.

[baansgr]

4 hours ago, SammyT said:

An immigration officer's job is to profile people. I.e. ask questions as to their previous and past travel plans and various other related and relevant matters to make a decision as to whether the person is legit in who and what they say they are. Happens to me often when I travel back to NZ - immigration officer questioning why I travel to Asia so much etc. 

 

Didn't realise there were so many precious snowflakes on this board who get so bent out of shape and consider leaving because an underpaid and overworked immigration officer didn't beam a smile at them and asked them too many questions (read: actually did their job). It's not a personal attack on you, it's not because they wanted to make your day more difficult, it's not because there is some directive to make farang feel unwelcome, I can assure you.

 

My advice? Don't dwell on it. There are unpleasant people in officialdom everywhere.  

Doing their job is one thing but being damn right rude and nasty is totally wrong...lets face it, travel most other countries always greeted with a smile yet "land of smiles" never happens.

[MARK74]

24 minutes ago, ravip said:

Thailand does not care anymore about expats.

To be honest, yes it definitely seems so. Should anyone be surprised? Now, I am NOT generalising here, but the way many Westerners behave, they definitely deserve it. Especially at long immigration queues, when a Westerner is asked for the Departure/Arrival card that he had misplaced or forgotten, the reaction is absolutely hilarious, to put it very mildly... Eyes rolled up, face snarling, hands spread out and telling all and sundry "OOhhhh my God"!

People will not tolerate arrogance always and every time. It is time up for Westerners (not all) to realise that they are not Gods gift to mankind and rules apply to them too. What gives them the special right to be arrogant? Just read the majority of posts here at TVF and it should be simple enough for you to realise what I am trying to say.

 

Yes! Not ONLY Thailand that does not care anymore about Western expats, but many other 3rd world developing countries too have the same feeling.

 

Time up for a behavioural change, me thinks. Blaming the Chinese, Russians, Indians are whinings of the desperate and the losers.

 

what a load of BS. But maybe typing it out made it almost seem real to you and perked up your day a little. Now back to reality Ravip

[ravip]

18 minutes ago, MARK74 said:

what a load of BS. But maybe typing it out made it almost seem real to you and perked up your day a little. Now back to reality Ravip

Yes, a load of BS indeed MARK74. 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, yuiop said:

I agree with you, it seems farang are not welcome anymore by thai immigration/government.

 Rubbish, expand your reading and get a much better awareness of Thailand.

Edited March 5, 2019 by scorecard

[scorecard]

25 minutes ago, MARK74 said:

what a load of BS. But maybe typing it out made it almost seem real to you and perked up your day a little. Now back to reality Ravip

Agree, total bullshit.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, Sambotte said:

I don't mind questions. Happens sometimes, not a problem.

 

But here she was like accusing me of changing places in Thailand first.

Question : is there a law saying a retirement visa implies not changing address/town ?

 

And beyond that, she was acting like she did not want to let me in, searching for a excuse. Worrying with a legit long-term visa no ?

 

There was no agressivity from me, actually i came to her happy to be back in Thailand.

She was not polite though. I standed polite.

Just wondering, you seem to be saying the IO officer mentioned, on looking at your passport that you have going to too many places in Thailand.

 

How could she know that from your passport, you don't need to show a a passport nor have it stamped to travel domestically?

 

[bkk6060]

If I was her supervisor I would applaud her.

Some of you have no idea of what her recent training has told her, what type of recent information or enforcement direction she has been given, etc.

 

I for one have nothing to hide I like it when they ask me a bunch of questions.  I want to see them doing their job.

 

Thanks for her extra efforts and concern....

[dcnx]

Enjoy the rest of your life here. This is what you have to look forward to until the day they finally deny you for whatever reason they make up.

 

Best of luck with all that.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

actually, the  most impolite and miserable Immigration officials I have ever had the misfortune to interact with have been in US Airports. Thai's don't come close.  

43 minutes ago, ravip said:

Have a look at the Visa application for an undeveloped, 3rd world citizen to visit the USA and other 'developed' countries! You will understand the height of development.

Those of us with higher-wage passports have no motivation to travel to lower-wage nations to take jobs illegally.  The purpose of a govt is to increase the standard of living of its citizens, which means keeping those who would steal jobs from citizens and undercut wages by working-cheap in the process, OUT of the country. 

 

In the USA, we have a "split system" - where immigration is told to do their job protecting us, while the border is left wide-open to illegal-immigrants to come in at the same time.  This is because it helps cut the labor-costs of transnational-corporations.

 

After entering the USA illegally, one can buy a fake green-card easily, get a real drivers-license (in many states) - and stay forever - illegally - while having children that are granted citizenship - waiting until the eventual "amnesty" happens (Orwellian term: "comprehensive immigration reform"), to encourage the next wave to enter the same way, and undercut the dwindling opportunities of the last "batch," in precisely the same fashion.

 

Sad to see similar happen to Thais from foreign-labor - and not nearly enough expats to come close to offsetting the damage.

[Genericnic]

5 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Agree with that. Especially Homeland bad cops guys... Actually... Had only one issue in Vegas, where a bad cop tried everything to piss me off and to deny me entry for no reason, and openly expressed his frustration when his supervisor said i was a ok guy.

 

I'm almost old, have been travelling a lot in my life, always polite, well dressed, and legit, for info. French passport. Rarely had a problem going so long for no reason.

And here again the point is it's with a retirement visa for witch i putted 800k in bank + fees.

Don't take it personally. They are equally rude and obnoxious to US citizens. Makes going back for a visit less pleasant.

 

David

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

The tightening of the financial requirements may also be related to this. My checking about how the financial requirements are gamed suggests that rarely are funds actually deposited into the expat's account.

They are actually deposited, but just for a few hours.  I spoke to several agents a couple weeks ago, when weighing my options (but decided against using an agent).  The trick is that immigration waive the seasoning if you use an agent (for some unknown reason).

 

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

If that's true, then the only other way this requirement can be met is if documents are forged or the requirement is waived by an immigration officer,  both of which could easily be detected if immigration audited the applications, or set up a liaison with the major banks to verify the bank letters were bonafide. But you never hear about this type of corruption being detected or rooted out, and you have to wonder why. With early reports saying that the same people who were gaming the system before can still do it by paying a little more money, you have to start to wonder if the tightened requirements really serve little other purpose than to make meeting these financial requirements more lucrative for visa agents and immigration officers.

I agree with the rest of your interpretation of events.  The new rules only change seasoning (which can be waived, faked, or ignored) - so, the agent-game was carefully preserved in the new rules.  Only making agents illegal would have any effect, and it is clear why that isn't on the table.

 

But I don't think the only purpose is agent-money, the other purpose is to drive most of us out of the country - while ensuring a higher percentage of those that remain pay "tribute" to do so via agents.  "Best of both worlds," as it were.

[JackThompson]

 

4 hours ago, SammyT said:

It's not a personal attack on you, it's not because they wanted to make your day more difficult, it's not because there is some directive to make farang feel unwelcome, I can assure you.

The fact is, they didn't used to treat us this way - now they do.  They clearly are being told that Farangs are the enemy, now.  Certainly no reason the OP cannot travel around Thailand, as long as he reports his address as required - yet she LIED (typical Bangkok immigration IOs) and claimed he could not do this.

 

4 hours ago, geisha said:

I was told off and got real nasty looks from one male immigration officer on leaving Thailand. Told me I came to Thailand too much.

i come for 3/4 months once a year with visas.Im a retired lady . I think it’s just racist officers who like to show their position ! 

Yet some posters here will claim only those "trying to live full time in Thailand as tourists" have problems.  We can add your case to the many others that disprove that assertion. 

 

Those under control of this farang-hating clique appear to have been told to drive us out - by any way possible. 

 

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Being stupid and uninformed is not acceptable just because you wear a uniform.

I don't think they are uninformed.  I think they are being taught to hate us, in some areas.

 

I am fortunate that I deal with the border IOs up in Issan, who seem to have not yet contracted farangphobia - likely being spread by farang-hating bosses.  Usually I get some small talk and a smile, occasionally a pertinent question or two, (where do you live, etc) - but always in a polite way.

 

1 hour ago, ravip said:

Yes! Not ONLY Thailand that does not care anymore about Western expats, but many other 3rd world developing countries too have the same feeling.

On the contrary - only Thailand and a few others have decided to screw their own citizens out good incomes, generated from visitors spending foreign-sourced money.  All the rest have open-arms and smiles.

[Sambotte]

To sum up...

 

- Visa number ok no big deal but easy to print on the TM thing "visa or exemption or re-entry number". How could one guess otherwise the requested VISA number is in fact the re-entry number ? ????

 

- Change of address : here i think it's a hassle, or a big mess with their system (that could explain the mood of the IO). Yes i like to move, and nowhere i saw that retirement = obsolete and barely moving ????

And so i made my second extension in a place different from the first extension (no problem), and have been traveling inside and outside Thailand since. Is that a crime, or a problem with their system ?

For example i was living in Khao Lak, and went to see a ex-girlfriend in Phuket for 5 days in a resort. Came back : low season, no immigration in Khao Lak. As i read the chief of immigration or police insisted we farang must declare when we move for a day and come back in a house, i went to the police, and explained : well they had no clue how to proceed (where not even aware of that), and called immigration in Phang-Nga (far away), with no better procedure, and finally told me no it's ok ! No problem with police officers either, friendly actually.

When i last travelled outside Thailand, i tried to make a re-entry permit at Phuket immigration (where i was in hotel then), and i missed a paper from the hotel relative to my address (although it's computerized, so why this mess again ?)... I made it (the re-entry) at airport (week-end otherwise i have been told it's not working) : the lady (yep again) was not happy, but did not told me anything else than i could have done it before at immigration...  

So it looks like their system are not upgraded to their law i would say, so what can one farang do ? ????

At least the re-entry thing is a non-sense (why not make it by default i wonder ?), and the complex notification of addresses is another non-sense (at least with the automatic hotel registration).

 

Here the question is still : does Thailand NOT WANT retirees to be able to move ?? Making it complex even for a week-end in resort or a short travel ? Not good for business ????

 

And now i am well yep in another city ???? I will worry for the 90 days thing, since i am in hotel now so nothing to declare.

But frankly it's a hassle with a not working system, they just should simplify and make it work better. Not accusing the farang at airport immigration to move too much ! Could be the explanation, but...

 

- Why did she after that ask me 3 times if i made my extension by myself ? And asking for my bankbook (and not being happy with it) ? And taking so much time like she desperatly was searching for a excuse to denie me entry ? Or maybe she was lost and waiting instruction from a supervisor, possible, she was like talking alone in Thai that was weird.

 

- For being polite i disagree with some here who say it's normal not to be polite. Old man, not same education maybe ? And force officers are not exempt imo.

 

- Last, i am not irritated by this incident alone, s. happens, but if i put all together what worries me is the strong perception Thailand is not expat-friendly anymore ! That's the point. And, secondary, to have to now worry even with a (expensive with the 800k) retirement visa if i want to travel abroad and come back. Not so good business here from the Thaï ? Strange (indeed).

 

 

[theoldgit]

22 hours ago, SammyT said:

But we're relying heavily on the OP's perception of how the questions were ask. The OP seems pretty flustered and agitated by it all, so maybe they perceive these things differently to many others. 

 

All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of expats bent out of shape that an IO dare question one of their own. Immigration questions are meant to only be reserved for other races, right?

Of course we rely heavily on the the OP's perception about how the questions were asked, he was there, I wasn't, were you, are you suggesting it's just a figment of his imagination?
Of course I'm not suggesting that IO's have to question only certain races, so not right, totally wrong.

IO's have a duty to ensure that those wishing to enter are going to comply with immigration rules, and if they already have a visa or an extension of stay with permission to return, they have already satisfied a person in authority that they have entry clearance, an IO should only refuse if they believe that entry clearance was fraudulently obtained or there has been a material change in the persons circumstances since clearance was granted, the questions the IO is said to have asked don't seem to be appropriate to me.
You criticise some expats, I see most people offering constructive criticism whilst others snipe from the sidelines.     

[SammyT]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Doing their job is one thing but being damn right rude and nasty is totally wrong...lets face it, travel most other countries always greeted with a smile yet "land of smiles" never happens.

Really? Most other countries? I'd say about 30% of the countries I've travelled to I'd describe my immigration officer as friendly. The rest they just do their job. I'd rather a competent officer not afraid of asking hard questions than someone who smiles and gives me warm fuzzies. That's just me though

[smedly]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

An immigration officer's job is to profile people. I.e. ask questions as to their previous and past travel plans

yes if you are a tourist

 

if you have 12 month extension based on retirement they have no particular business to ask you anything, you can travel anywhere you feel like, and what's this bankbook nonsense at an airport !!!, I carry my bank book to the bank and once a year to immigration