Do you believe in God and why

[Mambowoman]

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Magic?! lol OK Perhaps you could be kind enough to furnish me with any logical reason to believe that nothing is the only possible outcome from nothing. 

 

So you have absolutely nothing... except a force (yet to be demonstrated)… and a god (yet to be demonstrated) and a viaduct. I'm not convinced mate.

 

 

LOL. Define nothing and you will have your answer.

 

The universe exists, we exist. Any ideas how it all came into being? 

BTW, the universe is full of forces. They could be "god", and no one can prove they ain't.

 

Viaduct????????????????

When did I use the word viaduct?

Edited June 10, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[transam]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Define nothing and you will have your answer.

 

The universe exists, we exist. Any ideas how it all came into being? 

BTW, the universe is full of forces. They could be "god", and no one can prove they ain't.

For sure, but the earthbound who have turned a possibility into man made daft stuff are daft...They are even killing each other....Writing things in books that never happened....

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

I've often been puzzled by the fact that so many apparently rational, intelligent, and educated people in the past, and in the present, appear to show such a disconnect with their rationality when they also express a belief in God. They are like a Schizophrenic.

 

Perhaps it is you that suffers from a lack of understanding in why they do so. There is a saying used by psychologists- walk in another's shoes to understand them.

While I don't believe in an old man sitting in a chair in the sky passing judgement on us, I am moved by the beauty to be found in the world, which is faith in something larger than "us". I also understand why some feel nothing when they look at the stars, or a lovely sunset. I pity them, for they miss out on the wonders of life.

Must be a shallow life, to feel nothing when the loveliness of creation is all about us. Bit sad, really. 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

For sure, but the earthbound who have turned a possibility into man made daft stuff are daft...They are even killing each other....Writing things in books that never happened....

 

 

 

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but religion has nothing to do with "god", IMO. It's something the men in funny hats invented to get rich and control the common people, IMO.

[transam]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but religion has nothing to do with "god", IMO. It's something the men in funny hats invented to get rich and control the common people, IMO.

Humans actually killed their own to please/appease their "God".....God is a word, that's all, folk "think" there is a bloke or bird up there controlling stuff....Well wasn't that long ago folk thought ships would drop off the edge off our earth...Well, a bloke told 'em.....????

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, transam said:

For sure, but the earthbound who have turned a possibility into man made daft stuff are daft...They are even killing each other....Writing things in books that never happened....

 

 

 

In 2001, a team of researchers led by Swedish scientist Dr Lennart Moller travelled in the footsteps of Moses and the Israelites as they fled the Egyptian Pharaoh in the hopes of proving there is truth in the ancient story.

 

He also led an American TV crew to film the bottom of the Red Sea, where they claim to have found ancient relics belonging to the army.

He argued in his 2002 book, The Exodus Case that there is a wealth of evidence to support his theory the biblical tale is more than just a work of fiction.

 

Their expedition followed in the footsteps of Dr Ron Wyatt, a biblical archeologist, who in 1978 claimed he had photographic evidence of gold-encrusted chariot wheels, as well as fossilised human and horse bones on the sea bed.

 

He concludes: "I’m arguing that the historical event happened in 1250 B.C., and the memories of it have been recorded in (book of) Exodus.

 

"The people of the time gloried in God and gave God credit."

[yodsak]

5 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

In 2001, a team of researchers led by Swedish scientist Dr Lennart Moller travelled in the footsteps of Moses and the Israelites as they fled the Egyptian Pharaoh in the hopes of proving there is truth in the ancient story.

 

 

 

 

[Date Masamune]

16 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

This is to all those who profess to be an atheists.  The Bible teaches that atheists are not really atheists.  Those who profess to be atheists do ultimately believe in God in their heart-of-hearts.  The Bible teaches that everyone knows God, because God has revealed Himself to all (Romans 1:19).  The Bible tells us that God’s existence is so obvious that anyone who suppresses this truth is “without excuse” (Romans 1:20).  That should be a sobering thought.  The atheist denies with his lips what he knows in his heart.  If they know God, then why do atheists claim that they do not believe in God?

 

The answer may be found in (Romans 1:18).  God is angry at unbelievers for their wickedness.  An all-powerful, all-knowing God who is angry at you is a terrifying prospect.  So even though many atheists might claim that they are neutral, objective observers, and that their disbelief in God is purely rational, in reality, they are strongly motivated to reject the biblical God who is rightly angry with them.  So they suppress that truth in unrighteousness.  They convince themselves that they do not believe in God.  The atheist is like a schizophrenic—believing in God, but believing that he does not believe in God.

 

Just keep in mind you have until your last breath to accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour.  After that it is a done deal.  Eternity is a long time to harbor regret.   

Oh the tired old fire and brimstone threats..(yawn).

 

But now we are learn the non believer is suffering from some kind of mental illness, believing in god but convinced they don't. What of the Righteous among the Mohammedans, Jews, and Catholics? (etcetera etcetera).   As I have been told by evangelicals,  they are all damned to Hell also, for believing in God, but the wrong one, what nonsense. The Soviet Union used such false accusation to condemn dissidents to mental asylums. If one goes around being a richard one won't be liked very much. If you are convicted by the state for a crime, you will be penalized in a court of law. In certain countries even paying with your life. This is the only judgement. There is only one life to live. There is even no universal good or evil, except as it exists these secular and interpersonal contexts (humanism). The human race may literally go extinct fairly soon and all the deeds and doings in all of human history will mean nothing out of context. No god, no hell, no eternity, no "soul", no heaven, no women turned to salt, no vegetarian lions in a mythical Eden, and certainly no "salvation" by a Jesus or anyone else. 

 

No a single slight shred of evidence for any of it whatsoever. 

 

 

[Date Masamune]

LOL. Define nothing and you will have your answer.
 
The universe exists, we exist. Any ideas how it all came into being? 
BTW, the universe is full of forces. They could be "god", and no one can prove they ain't.
 
Viaduct????????????????
When did I use the word viaduct?

Asking to prove a negative is a very weak line of debate.

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps it is you that suffers from a lack of understanding in why they do so. There is a saying used by psychologists- walk in another's shoes to understand them.

While I don't believe in an old man sitting in a chair in the sky passing judgement on us, I am moved by the beauty to be found in the world, which is faith in something larger than "us". I also understand why some feel nothing when they look at the stars, or a lovely sunset. I pity them, for they miss out on the wonders of life.

Must be a shallow life, to feel nothing when the loveliness of creation is all about us. Bit sad, really. 

What is truly sad are ignorant assumptions and condescending arrogance. There are natural explanations for those emotional responses you're so confused about. AND most people feel them, other than those with severe emotional disorders. There are perfectly good words to describe those feelings such as wonder...beauty...fascination...and even awe. None require the interjection of a nonsense word like god or something greater than us. God has a definition and it isn't love nor wonder nor beauty nor fascination nor awe. These feelings can even be reproduced in the brain in a lab setting or by music, stimulating certain parts of the brain...and even by virtual reality machines. NO god or your nonsense phrase SOMETHING greater than us. Use it again after you buy a clue as to what that something actually is and means, otherwise it's total nonsense. A description requires more than saying "it's Something". That clarifies nothing. That describes nothing. Means zero. Diddly-squat. 

 

I...lifelong ATHEIST...can be brought to tears by a good book or movie, acting and music. Filled with wonder at the natural beauty of the earth, sunsets, landscapes and mountains. Fascinated by birds, bugs, bats and most other species. You should see my personal photography collection of all of the above. 

 

NO gods or what you keep inserting as "something greater" required. Feel free to label all these things whatever you choose, but know that they already have long established words and meanings and explanations WITHOUT adding extraneous nonsense. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Date Masamune]

Perhaps it is you that suffers from a lack of understanding in why they do so. There is a saying used by psychologists- walk in another's shoes to understand them. While I don't believe in an old man sitting in a chair in the sky passing judgement on us, I am moved by the beauty to be found in the world, which is faith in something larger than "us". I also understand why some feel nothing when they look at the stars, or a lovely sunset. I pity them, for they miss out on the wonders of life.

Must be a shallow life, to feel nothing when the loveliness of creation is all about us. Bit sad, really. 

 

I’m glad you feel sorry for rational people but we can feel plenty of things, enjoy the loveliness if the planet (without a nonsense a diety responsible for it) and have a very satisfying life in a context of secular humanism. So listen to what you are saying and put yourself in the shoes of a rational person. You can’t experience or enjoy a life that is not “shallow” without believing in some supernatural process to which there exists not one shred of evidence in all of human history? Truly bizarre.

 

I don’t feel sorry for religious fanatics. Just wish they would keep it to themselves. It is unfortunate back in my country of the US however due to our uniquely un-democratic system they are able to wield unusual influence and push garbage on the rest of us. Even in Communist China they are not trying to push creationism and pseudo-geology to schoolchildren, ban abortion, and various other forms of nonsense.

 

 

 

[CMNightRider]

2 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

Oh the tired old fire and brimstone threats..(yawn).

 

But now we are learn the non believer is suffering from some kind of mental illness, believing in god but convinced they don't. What of the Righteous among the Mohammedans, Jews, and Catholics? (etcetera etcetera).   As I have been told by evangelicals,  they are all damned to Hell also, for believing in God, but the wrong one, what nonsense. The Soviet Union used such false accusation to condemn dissidents to mental asylums. If one goes around being a richard one won't be liked very much. If you are convicted by the state for a crime, you will be penalized in a court of law. In certain countries even paying with your life. This is the only judgement. There is only one life to live. There is even no universal good or evil, except as it exists these secular and interpersonal contexts (humanism). The human race may literally go extinct fairly soon and all the deeds and doings in all of human history will mean nothing out of context. No god, no hell, no eternity, no "soul", no heaven, no women turned to salt, no vegetarian lions in a mythical Eden, and certainly no "salvation" by a Jesus or anyone else. 

 

No a single slight shred of evidence for any of it whatsoever. 

 

 

When you get right down to it, believing in anything requires faith.  Even an atheist has to have faith - faith that there is no God.  The choice is whether to believe in a faith built on God’s Word or believe in a faith built on man’s word.  We need a standard by which we live our lives.  The Bible - God’s Word, fills that place for millions.  It is the bottom line in every decision we make. It is the bottom line in every relationship we have.  It is the bottom line in every problem or situation we have on this earth.  Living by this standard makes life a peaceful, joy-filled, wonderful experience.   

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

When you get right down to it, believing in anything requires faith.  Even an atheist has to have faith - faith that there is no God.  The choice is whether to believe in a faith built on God’s Word or believe in a faith built on man’s word.  We need a standard by which we live our lives.  The Bible - God’s Word, fills that place for millions.  It is the bottom line in every decision we make. It is the bottom line in every relationship we have.  It is the bottom line in every problem or situation we have on this earth.  Living by this standard makes life a peaceful, joy-filled, wonderful experience.   

No it doesn't.  There is no Godzilla.  It is not incumbent on me to prove that.  Russel's teapot.  

[Skeptic7]

13 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

When you get right down to it, believing in anything requires faith.  Even an atheist has to have faith - faith that there is no God.  The choice is whether to believe in a faith built on God’s Word or believe in a faith built on man’s word.  We need a standard by which we live our lives.  The Bible - God’s Word, fills that place for millions.  It is the bottom line in every decision we make. It is the bottom line in every relationship we have.  It is the bottom line in every problem or situation we have on this earth.  Living by this standard makes life a peaceful, joy-filled, wonderful experience.   

Now we're rehashing things that have been thoroughly previously covered. I addressed the "everyone has faith" fallacy pages ago. Explained in detail how and why it's not faith. 

 

For you and Thaibeachlovers... 

 

Russell's Teapot! 

[Date Masamune]

When you get right down to it, believing in anything requires faith.  Even an atheist has to have faith - faith that there is no God.  The choice is whether to believe in a faith built on God’s Word or believe in a faith built on man’s word.  We need a standard by which we live our lives.  The Bible - God’s Word, fills that place for millions.  It is the bottom line in every decision we make. It is the bottom line in every relationship we have.  It is the bottom line in every problem or situation we have on this earth.  Living by this standard makes life a peaceful, joy-filled, wonderful experience.   

The “Bible” is not Gods word. There is no god. It is the words of men, written in a a dead language Amharic and ancient Hebrew. Then translated to Greek, and finally other languages, while being edited and often mistranslated over the years for the purpose of controlling other men. Whatever good that can be gleaned from reading a bible Koran, or Buddhist scriptures on dried palm leaves is indistinguishable from secular humanism as it was written by man. This idea divine origin is an absurd fantasy of the human mind.

 

I have faith in things that can be proven, repeated, demonstrated etc. Not fairy tales. If Carleton Heston is resurrected floats down on a cloud and parts the Red Sea again I will believe it. Otherwise, it is nonsense. “Faith”, as believing in something that cannot be proven is probably the most dangerous c concept in the world. It puts otherwise rational people in a very bad position minimally of appearing to be childlike and foolish. Maximally as proven time and time again to commit horrendous crimes and murders. ISIL, el Quaida, heavens gate, Jim Jones cult, , the list goes on and on . This kind of “Faith” should be stamped out for the good of humanity.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

When you get right down to it, believing in anything requires faith.  Even an atheist has to have faith - faith that there is no God.  The choice is whether to believe in a faith built on God’s Word or believe in a faith built on man’s word.  We need a standard by which we live our lives.  The Bible - God’s Word, fills that place for millions.  It is the bottom line in every decision we make. It is the bottom line in every relationship we have.  It is the bottom line in every problem or situation we have on this earth.  Living by this standard makes life a peaceful, joy-filled, wonderful experience.   

You do not have carte blanche to just say "we" and include all of US whom are part of the WE here. Your book and your god do not enter any decision ever made in my lifetime and never will. Your silly book of ridiculous, angry, jealous, vindictive, misogynistic (well maybe that one...JOKE!), genocidal, infanticidal, murderous stories of your non-existent monster-thing Yaweh isn't a moral compass for even the most depraved and malevolent humans.

 

Certainly isn't for any decent person. I am infinitely more moral than the non-existent a-hole god you worship. You must totally be reading a different book! But that's not the case at all. You're just ignorant to what is actually in there. 

 

Cherry pick much? And don't say New Testament. Same god same <deleted>. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Skeptic7]

43 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

The “Bible” is not Gods word. There is no god. It is the words of men, written in a a dead language Amharic and ancient Hebrew. Then translated to Greek, and finally other languages, while being edited and often mistranslated over the years for the purpose of controlling other men. Whatever good that can be gleaned from reading a bible Koran, or Buddhist scriptures on dried palm leaves is indistinguishable from secular humanism as it was written by man. This idea divine origin is an absurd fantasy of the human mind.

 

I have faith in things that can be proven, repeated, demonstrated etc. Not fairy tales. If Carleton Heston is resurrected floats down on a cloud and parts the Red Sea again I will believe it. Otherwise, it is nonsense. “Faith”, as believing in something that cannot be proven is probably the most dangerous c concept in the world. It puts otherwise rational people in a very bad position minimally of appearing to be childlike and foolish. Maximally as proven time and time again to commit horrendous crimes and murders. ISIL, el Quaida, heavens gate, Jim Jones cult, , the list goes on and on . This kind of “Faith” should be stamped out for the good of humanity.

(This for him, not you but just furthering your well made point. Again...as have already covered faith.) 

 

And then I'd still be skeptical it's really Charlton Heston! And maybe the sea parting is a David Blaine or Copperfield illusion!

 

Also, I don't call your examples faith. Rather...trust, confidence, reliability. Can't give the Fundies an inch...even for the sake of argument...as they stretch it a million miles! 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Date Masamune]

I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow at 5:47AM.

I was clear to differentiate from “Faith”, which is believing something that that can’t be proven.

[Date Masamune]

Double

[Date Masamune]

Tripple

[yodsak]

5 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

 

 

 

 

Their expedition followed in the footsteps of Dr Ron Wyatt, a biblical archeologist, who in 1978 claimed he had photographic evidence of gold-encrusted chariot wheels, as well as fossilised human and horse bones on the sea bed.

 

[Skeptic7]

35 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow at 5:47AM.

I was clear to differentiate from “Faith”, which is believing something that that can’t be proven.

You did indeed, but was not for your edification. 

 

Give a "Planck Length" and "they" take light-year. ????

[notmyself]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Define nothing and you will have your answer.

 

The universe exists, we exist. Any ideas how it all came into being? 

BTW, the universe is full of forces. They could be "god", and no one can prove they ain't.

 

Not my claim ergo not my burden to define.

 

Nope.... assuming the question is even valid. 

 

Therefor everything must be considered true until proven to be false including the judicial system where you will be guilty until proven innocent and 'not guilty' wouldn't even exist.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

No a single slight shred of evidence for any of it whatsoever. 

 

What has evidence got to do with faith?

It's not like you are going to convince anyone with that, unless they already believe that evidence is necessary for faith, which it isn't.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

Asking to prove a negative is a very weak line of debate.

I'm not asking anyone to prove anything, unless they seek to convince me of something I don't agree with.

I believe that there is something greater than "us", and no one can disprove that. Whether anyone else believes in that is up to them.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

God has a definition

55555555555555

No one can define "God", as "God", IMO, is beyond the comprehension of mere humans.

16 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

What is truly sad are ignorant assumptions and condescending arrogance.

of people that actually think they know anything related to faith of other people. Faith is a personal thing, and everyone's faith is different.

I can't prove that "God" exists, but no one can prove that "God" does not exist.

[yodsak]

On 6/6/2019 at 11:11 AM, CMNightRider said:

According to the Bible which was confirmed by Jesus to be the word of God and factual, yes these people really did live this long.  For 1,500 years after creation, men lived such long lives that most were either contemporaries of the first man, Adam, or personally knew someone who was!  The ten patriarchs (excluding Enoch) who preceded the Great Flood lived an average of 912 years.  Lamech died the youngest at the age of 777, and Methuselah lived to be the oldest at 969.

 

 

Ok, thanks.  jesus confirmed the bible is factual. Thats good enough then. No need to question it. Verify it.

So when Lamech was born, nine generations were alive at once.

Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methusela, and Lamech were all alive at the time of Lamech's birth.

So Adam lived to see his great-great-great-great-great-great grandson. 

Any scientific reason for this longevity? Special diet, lack of diseases? Genetics?

 

We started off with Adam made from dust, in a gods image. Eve was made from a rib, and we have a talking snake. [also a talking donkey later in the book] And after the flood, the greatest act of genocide ever, only eight people were left on earth. From which we are all descended. Incest? 

And life expectancy dropped dramatically. Why?

       4     Moses only lived to 120.

 

 According to peer reviewed science/data.

 Life expectancy in the bronze age 26 

 1950 world average 48 

 2014  world average 71.5

 

Sam Harris on creation.

''The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency''

 

 

 

 

[notmyself]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can't prove that "God" exists, but no one can prove that "God" does not exist.

 

Always an interesting one because it mandates belief in everything, including contradictions. 

[Skeptic7]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555

No one can define "God", as "God", IMO, is beyond the comprehension of mere humans.

of people that actually think they know anything related to faith of other people. Faith is a personal thing, and everyone's faith is different.

I can't prove that "God" exists, but no one can prove that "God" does not exist.

Russell's Teapot. Universe Creating Pixies. Flying Spaghetti Monster. Zeus. Odin. Bigfoot. Nellie. Santa Claus. 

 

I can't prove these don't exist either, but I don't waste my time on them. Bet you don't either. Same with your "god" or your nonsense go-to "something greater than us"...which actually says nothing...has no substance...is meaningless.

 

Also...if "god" or "something greater than us" is beyond all human comprehension, then why even contemplate such things? Why waste your time arguing about something you can't even describe or define and admittedly can never understand? You'll never know it. Never comprehend it. Never see it or interact with it. For the sake of your argument...even if this Thing which you can't describe, define or comprehend really does exist...It's no different than it not existing. You obviously don't know anything about it and by your own admission, can't ever know anything about it.

 

Seems obvious and rather silly to me.