Do you believe in God and why

[VincentRJ]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To repeat, if one had to have proof to believe, it wouldn't be faith.

Without faith, going to church, temple, mosque is just hypocrisy, as one is just going through the motions without believing.

 

IMO, having faith without proof is essential for salvation. If people only worshipped because they KNEW they'd burn forever in hell if they didn't, it wouldn't be faith that got them on their knees.

That's an interesting point. Faith and Belief are very widespread and pervasive, often for clear psychological reasons. They are not confined to the conventional religions of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism.

 

Faith and Belief is the basis of the placebo effect. When people visit their doctor because of some ailment, they do so because they have a certain degree of faith that the doctor will prescribe some effective medication. When the medication is prescribed and they begin taking the pills, they have a degree of faith that the pills will be cure their ailment.
It is estimated that approximately 30% of the effectiveness of all medication is due to the placebo effect.

 

When new drugs are tested using the 'double blind' method whereby two groups of people are given pills, completely unaware of whether they are getting the real, new pill, or a placebo, as are the medial assistants distributing the pills to the patients, the fact that the group who has been getting the 'real' pill shows an improvement in their ailment, does not mean that the group getting the placebo shows no improvement at all. Both groups show an improvement. However, if the group taking the real pill shows a significantly greater improvement than the group taking the placebo, then that justifies the effectiveness of the new drug.

 

Likewise, if someone has a strong belief in a particular healer, whether Jesus Christ or some supreme deity, praying to such a deity or God could results in a cure which might be described as 'miraculous', but is probably just an improved placebo effect resulting from a particularly strong belief.

 

If one is studying at university to get a degree, a belief that acquiring the degree will help one to prosper in life and get a rewarding job, will help one to work hard and pass the exams.

 

The precise processes of the placebo effect are not fully understood, scientifically.

[sweatalot]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

That's an interesting point. Faith and Belief are very widespread and pervasive, often for clear psychological reasons. They are not confined to the conventional religions of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism.

 

Faith and Belief is the basis of the placebo effect. When people visit their doctor because of some ailment, they do so because they have a certain degree of faith that the doctor will prescribe some effective medication. When the medication is prescribed and they begin taking the pills, they have a degree of faith that the pills will be cure their ailment.
It is estimated that approximately 30% of the effectiveness of all medication is due to the placebo effect.

 

When new drugs are tested using the 'double blind' method whereby two groups of people are given pills, completely unaware of whether they are getting the real, new pill, or a placebo, as are the medial assistants distributing the pills to the patients, the fact that the group who has been getting the 'real' pill shows an improvement in their ailment, does not mean that the group getting the placebo shows no improvement at all. Both groups show an improvement. However, if the group taking the real pill shows a significantly greater improvement than the group taking the placebo, then that justifies the effectiveness of the new drug.

 

Likewise, if someone has a strong belief in a particular healer, whether Jesus Christ or some supreme deity, praying to such a deity or God could results in a cure which might be described as 'miraculous', but is probably just an improved placebo effect resulting from a particularly strong belief.

 

If one is studying at university to get a degree, a belief that acquiring the degree will help one to prosper in life and get a rewarding job, will help one to work hard and pass the exams.

 

The precise processes of the placebo effect are not fully understood, scientifically.

the authors of the bible knew these: They let Chgrist say: not me but your faith has cured you (or something like that)

 

faith is a very potent force. Knowing how to use it can cause miracles.

Religion is not needed for that. 

[mauGR1]

8 hours ago, sweatalot said:

faith is a very potent force. Knowing how to use it can cause miracles.

Religion is not needed for that. 

True, but having seen a few people losing the plot with random yoga practices, apparently it's not always safe to play with powerful forces having oneself false-ego in charge.

In other words, be careful where you put your faith.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 9/7/2019 at 4:58 AM, CMNightRider said:

Well, for me to catch up with you and some of your like minded amigos, would require me to lower my IQ substantially, and rid my mind of common sense.  I don't forsee that happening in the near future unless I become afflicted with dementia, which I suspect may be prevalent amoung a couple of posters who believe life evolved from some obscure mud muddle billions of years ago, or mysterly came from another planet millions of light years away from planet earth.

 

Understanding the Bible is not rocket science.  In fact, God inspired its authors to write the events in the Bible where someone with basic literacy would understand it.  We have been blessed with releatively short life spans on earth.  We have until our last breath to accept Jesus Christ as our savior.  According to the Bible, the road to Heaven is extremely small and most will not find it.  Why not be one of those who search for it, instead of hanging out with those who reject Gods gift of everlasting life. 

It is a sign of maturity and entering into adulthood when you realise the bible is drivel, santa does not exist and tooth fairies are made up. Religion is for women,    children and weak minded men.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Religion is for women,    children and weak minded men.

Being religious is not a necessary condition to be weak minded.

The fact that you put women, children and weak mind on the same level is rather telling.

[Tagged]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Being religious is not a necessary condition to be weak minded.

The fact that you put women, children and weak mind on the same level is rather telling.

I would not compare sexes and children in to it. Because if children could, they would not be brainwashed in to religion made of mad men and women. We should have been more in love with what we can see, and experience, and love our selves. Finale for this discussion for me. Blind following a blind for god sakes. 

[mauGR1]

25 minutes ago, Tagged said:

We should have been more in love with what we can see, and experience, and love our selves.

Well, on the assumption that life is a journey, and every traveller has his own preferred mix of adventure, comfort and discovery etc. , keeping it simple is a wise thing to do.

I have nothing against studying religion, yet i find quite annoying people, religious or not, who try to impose their beliefs onto others.

[CMNightRider]

2 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

It is a sign of maturity and entering into adulthood when you realise the bible is drivel, santa does not exist and tooth fairies are made up. Religion is for women,    children and weak minded men.

If I were you, I would seriously consider taking a break from the consumption of alcohol, or whatever you are smoking, to read the Bible and give your life to Jesus.  You have until you take your last breath to smarten up.  After you die, it is a done deal.  Best wishes to you ????  

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

After you die, it is a done deal.

That is a theory where i slightly disagree with you.

While it may be true that often, in this world, you don't get a second chance, we don't know exactly what happen to the soul when the body is dead.

To trust a book of 2, would be a too high leap of faith for me.

[CMNightRider]

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That is a theory where i slightly disagree with you.

While it may be true that often, in this world, you don't get a second chance, we don't know exactly what happen to the soul when the body is dead.

To trust a book of 2, would be a too high leap of faith for me.

If you would actually read the Bible from cover to cover, you would see why placing your trust in Jesus, is such an important decision.  When you think about spending eternity in Heaven or Hell, one would think this is an easy decision.  This site has a large percentage of lost souls.  There is no reason to join them.   

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, CMNightRider said:

If you would actually read the Bible from cover to cover, you would see why placing your trust in Jesus, is such an important decision.  When you think about spending eternity in Heaven or Hell, one would think this is an easy decision.  This site has a large percentage of lost souls.  There is no reason to join them.   

Well, i have a deep trust in Jesus, but as you probably know, the books you mention have been under the control of humans, i.e. organised religion, which i regard as an appendix of imperial power.

That said, have you ever heard about "Apocriph Gospels" ?

Those books are completely disregarded by organised christian religion, yet many esoteric Christians scholars regard them as important parts of the puzzle.

I read one, many years ago and they tell a slightly different story.

 

[CMNightRider]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i have a deep trust in Jesus, but as you probably know, the books you mention have been under the control of humans, i.e. organised religion, which i regard as an appendix of imperial power.

That said, have you ever heard about "Apocriph Gospels" ?

Those books are completely disregarded by organised christian religion, yet many esoteric Christians scholars regard them as important parts of the puzzle.

I read one, many years ago and they tell a slightly different story.

 

Some of the apocryphal gospels are the work of heretical groups that attempted to co-opt the teachings of Jesus for their own purposes. Among these works are the Gospel of Marcion, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Truth. The Gospel of Thomas is probably the best-known because it was popularized by Princeton University Professor of Religion Elaine Pagels in her 2004 best-seller Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas.

Some of the apocryphal gospels, like the Gospel of Peter, are just bizarre. In this work, we encounter an actual talking cross.

The Secret Gospel of Mark has only recently come to light and suggests that Jesus may have had a homosexual relationship with Mark. Further investigation suggests that this find was a hoax perpetrated by Morton Smith, the man who claimed to have discovered it. However, modern critical scholarship uncritically accepted it as genuine for a time.  

 

Please don't throw away your salvation on these deceptive books.  Satan is the great deceiver, and the last thing anyone needs is to be deceived by him and his demonic forces.   
 

[Skeptic7]

54 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That is a theory where i slightly disagree with you.

While it may be true that often, in this world, you don't get a second chance, we don't know exactly what happen to the soul when the body is dead.

To trust a book of 2, would be a too high leap of faith for me.

Don't know their is any "soul". No reason to assume there is...other than religion and wishful thinking. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Please don't throw away your salvation on these deceptive books.  Satan is the great deceiver, and the last thing anyone needs is to be deceived by him and his demonic forces.   
 

Well, don't worry, i take everything with a pinch of salt.

For me it's also important, to use a metaphor, to study the useful, yet insignificant plants, together with some useless yet beautiful plants, that's the duty of every serious researcher.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Don't know their is any "soul". No reason to assume there is...other than religion and wishful thinking. 

up to you

[thaibeachlovers]

For those that don't know what a soul is, it's the spark of life that makes us alive as opposed to a lump of meat and bones. IMO, the spark goes back from whence it came when the host body dies, but does not itself die.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

For those that don't know what a soul is, it's the spark of life that makes us alive as opposed to a lump of meat and bones. IMO, the spark goes back from whence it came when the host body dies, but does not itself die.

Yep, we could split hairs on the meaning of "soul" for ages, yet i think in general terms you are right.

[Skeptic7]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

For those that don't know what a soul is, it's the spark of life that makes us alive as opposed to a lump of meat and bones. IMO, the spark goes back from whence it came when the host body dies, but does not itself die.

"For those that don't know what a soul is"... 

 

This includes YOU...does it not? 

 

No evidence of or for such a thing. Provide some evidence to support the claim. 

 

Umm...what's that? Crickets...

 

[giddyup]

16 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yep, we could split hairs on the meaning of "soul" for ages, yet i think in general terms you are right.

It's Otis Reading, Aretha Franklin, Motown.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

"For those that don't know what a soul is"... 

 

This includes YOU...does it not? 

 

No evidence of or for such a thing. Provide some evidence to support the claim. 

 

Umm...what's that? Crickets...

 

ok, i try, even if it's time lost, well i have plenty anyway.

If me and you look at the same red flower, the red flower is the same, yet we have different impressions and/or emotions from watching it, and those impressions are stored in what we call memory.

Now, if the soul didn't exist, we would have exactly the same impression from watching at the same flower.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It's Otis Reading, Aretha Franklin, Motown.

Love them all. God bless them.

[Skeptic7]

51 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

ok, i try, even if it's time lost, well i have plenty anyway.

If me and you look at the same red flower, the red flower is the same, yet we have different impressions and/or emotions from watching it, and those impressions are stored in what we call memory.

Now, if the soul didn't exist, we would have exactly the same impression from watching at the same flower.

Says you. Your opinion is fine, but it proves nothing about a soul. Hardly proves anything about a red flower. 

 

And what about people with dementia, Alzheimer's or other brain disorders, trauma...or multiple personalities? Do they get 2 souls? Or multiple? That doesn't seem fair. What happens to the soul of the reality they had before? Compared with the soul of the reality and perception they have now?

 

RHETORICAL questions, obviously. Can't wait for the answers though! Always amusing. ????

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Skeptic7 said:

Says you. Your opinion is fine, but it proves nothing about a soul. Hardly proves anything about a red flower. 

 

And what about people with dementia, Alzheimer's or other brain disorders, trauma...or multiple personalities? Do they get 2 souls? Or multiple? That doesn't seem fair. What happens to the soul of the reality they had before? Compared with the soul of the reality and perception they have now?

 

RHETORICAL questions, obviously. Can't wait for the answers though! Always amusing. ????

Well, at least you are talking

Why do you think i could answer all those questions ?

According to some knowledge which i trust, we are made of 8 elements, which are related to senses or doors of perception.

Touch, taste, smell, sight and hearing, are the doors of perception of the physical body.

Mind, intelligence and ego (someone call it false-ego) are the doors of perception of the soul.

All those 8 elements contribute to form what we call "knowledge"

I can assure you it doesn't make any difference for me if you think i'm talking BS.

You're welcome.

[sweatalot]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

True, but having seen a few people losing the plot with random yoga practices, apparently it's not always safe to play with powerful forces having oneself false-ego in charge.

In other words, be careful where you put your faith.

put your faith in wellbeing, in health, in healing if needed, in positive outcomes, in surviving,  in your own power,  be optimistic  (= faith in positive outcome) . . .

[sweatalot]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

 

double post - deleted

Edited October 4, 2019 by sweatalot

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, at least you are talking

Why do you think i could answer all those questions ?

According to some knowledge which i trust, we are made of 8 elements, which are related to senses or doors of perception.

Touch, taste, smell, sight and hearing, are the doors of perception of the physical body.

Mind, intelligence and ego (someone call it false-ego) are the doors of perception of the soul.

All those 8 elements contribute to form what we call "knowledge"

I can assure you it doesn't make any difference for me if you think i'm talking BS.

You're welcome.

Precisely why I stated they were rhetorical questions. But not having answers hasn't stopped you up to this point! Thusly why also (facetiously) awaiting your answers. ????

[ivor bigun]

Just finished reading the latest posts,God i never thought my thread would go on so long ,keep at it boys ,girls and they, its facinating reading your thoughts.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mauGR1]

32 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Precisely why I stated they were rhetorical questions. But not having answers hasn't stopped you up to this point! Thusly why also (facetiously) awaiting your answers. ????

Well, well, I tried to explain to you why the soul is something real, rather unsuccessfully, I admit. Now I can conclude with saying that I can explain something, but I can't understand it for you, thus I find useful for you, if you want to understand, to remove a few of your biases ( that's another thing that i can't do for you)

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, well, I tried to explain to you why the soul is something real, rather unsuccessfully, I admit. Now I can conclude with saying that I can explain something, but I can't understand it for you, thus I find useful for you, if you want to understand, to remove a few of your biases ( that's another thing that i can't do for you)

What? The only part that has any meaning was your failure to explain...by your own admission. You should stop with the presuppositions and confirmation biases that you feel/want/wish to be true. They certainly apply to you, but meaningless to those of us woo-free. When you can explain any of your claim(s) in a proper manner, then maybe we can delve deeper. 

 

Clever, but hardly original. There is no possible way for you to understand something for yourself...so much as someone else...specifically when you have zero understanding of it yourself. 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Skeptic7 said:

What? The only part that has any meaning was your failure to explain...by your own admission. You should stop with the presuppositions and confirmation biases that you feel/want/wish to be true. They certainly apply to you, but meaningless to those of us woo-free. When you can explain any of your claim(s) in a proper manner, then maybe we can delve deeper. 

 

Clever, but hardly original. There is no possible way for you to understand something for yourself...so much as someone else...specifically when you have zero understanding of it yourself. 

Lol !