Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats?

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect!

To wit --

 

In my experience the ones complaining the loudest are the ones who were misrepresenting the amount they received from their respective embassies - hoping against hope that the immigration service will become afraid by the uproar they are causing and somehow allow them to continue to misrepresent their retirement income.  

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I can only guess the motivations of people trying to sell the BIG LIE that there haven't been major and very onerous changes, when indeed there have been. I think that's unethical. Massively so. If I was a local at some lake that had some kind of unmarked major hazard in it and I saw outsiders approaching it to go swimming, I would feel like I was a really bad person if I didn't WARN them. After that, they can go swimming if knowing the hazard they still choose to, but I would know that I did the right thing.

 

 

What big lie?  Please don't try and sell the philanthropic stuff.

Edited April 22, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What big lie?  Please don't try and sell the philanthropic stuff. 

I already posted the details.<removed>

 

To add, it's actually against my personal self interest for more potential fresh meat foreigners to know about the reality of the utter horribleness of the recent visa and enforcement situation and the obvious trends going forward. I have a major asset to sell if I ever hope to leave. If it was all about me, I would be promoting total B.S. that nothing has changed and everyone should come on over at the earliest. But I won't do that because that would be lying and deeply unethical. 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I already posted the details. <removed>

Most expats left because of the crash of the pound and Aussie dollar.  To blame it on visa changes is denying reality. 

[Kasane]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I already posted the details. <removed>

 

I am calling you out on it. You are quoting a non-official rag in support of your fictitious "visa changes" headline. Surely that article is fake news written by some lying farang whose embassy has now refused to sign off on his/her false income statement. 

 

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

[david555]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

If it wasn't for my wife, the still easy 1 year stay conditions, the weather, the cheap rent, the easiness of finding European products, 

I wouldn't be here. 

 

In Flanders one has to pay 4 month rent(3 months guarantee, 1 month rent) in advance now before receiving the apartment keys. 

compare that with the Flanders health care and you would feel like in heaven comparing with Thailand if in any social or financial problem …. the flip side of the coin...

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, Kasane said:

There are no visa changes.

OK got it - BTW, what Thailand are you in?

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

n my experience the ones complaining the loudest are the ones who were misrepresenting the amount they received from their respective embassies - hoping against hope that the immigration service will become afraid by the uproar they are causing and somehow allow them to continue to misrepresent their retirement income.  

Sorry- must disagree= I am complaining and I never lied on my Embassy Letter and I have both the income and the funds to put in the bank.  However, I have no intention in bringing a lump sum of money to a Thai bank- especially when I have purchased a house with land; several cars and a Condo which is a heavy investment into the Thai economy.  In addition- I support my Thai step daughter fully as well as parents.

 

I'm not looking for any thank you but I would not mind if Thailand treated me the same as when my wife emigrated to the US and got her residence permit which lasts forever.  I would be happy to be judged on $24,000 per year income as the US does for married Visas as long as all assets are included as the Us does.  Then I would be happy to have my lifetime Visa with all the rights of a Thai citizen to include medical just as my wife has in the US.

 

Instead, even though I came to Thailand 50 years ago- I am treated as a casual visitor- having to jump through the Immigration circus each year.  How about reciprocity?

 

How about unmarried retirees being able to use the value of their Thai purchased assets against the bank or income requirement. How about allowing retirees permanent residency?

 

How about our Embassies actually sit down with Immigration and explain that they will ask to see supporting documentation proving the income represented and that the applicant swears under Oath to it which makes lying a US Federal crime.  Every other Embassy in Thailand- except 4- has no problem issuing these letters for their citizens.  Thai Immigration accepts them and there is no indication they will not. If Thai Immigration suspects the applicant has lied- they can ask him to provide documentation or refer the matter back to the Embassy.  The US Embassy actually has an FBI office in Bangkok .

 

If the 4 Embassies really wanted to help their citizens they would have worked out an equitable solution rather than refusing to negotiate a settlement that worked for all.

 

 

 

[mokwit]

I use 800k in the bank and my visa requirements have changed.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Sorry- must disagree= I am complaining and I never lied on my Embassy Letter and I have both the income and the funds to put in the bank.  However, I have no intention in bringing a lump sum of money to a Thai bank- especially when I have purchased a house with land; several cars and a Condo which is a heavy investment into the Thai economy.  In addition- I support my Thai step daughter fully as well as parents.

 

I'm not looking for any thank you but I would not mind if Thailand treated me the same as when my wife emigrated to the US and got her residence permit which lasts forever.  I would be happy to be judged on $24,000 per year income as the US does for married Visas as long as all assets are included as the Us does.  Then I would be happy to have my lifetime Visa with all the rights of a Thai citizen to include medical just as my wife has in the US.

 

Instead, even though I came to Thailand 50 years ago- I am treated as a casual visitor- having to jump through the Immigration circus each year.  How about reciprocity?

 

How about unmarried retirees being able to use the value of their Thai purchased assets against the bank or income requirement. How about allowing retirees permanent residency?

 

How about our Embassies actually sit down with Immigration and explain that they will ask to see supporting documentation proving the income represented and that the applicant swears under Oath to it which makes lying a US Federal crime.  Every other Embassy in Thailand- except 4- has no problem issuing these letters for their citizens.  Thai Immigration accepts them and there is no indication they will not. If Thai Immigration suspects the applicant has lied- they can ask him to provide documentation or refer the matter back to the Embassy.  The US Embassy actually has an FBI office in Bangkok .

 

If the 4 Embassies really wanted to help their citizens they would have worked out an equitable solution rather than refusing to negotiate a settlement that worked for all.

If you didn't fake your income you have nothing to complain about = in fact it got easier and less expensive.  Just get a bank letter and no trip to the embassy required. 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

I use 800k in the bank and my visa requirements have changed.

No your extension seasoning requirements have changed.  You now have to keep a few more dollars in the bank for a few more days. 

[WalkingOrders]

The only thing that I see has changed from my needs, is that I show bank information instead of a letter on income from my embassy. Thats it. 65K baht minimum per month coming in from my out of country source is certainly not requiring me to be rich, and I knew the amount required before I arrived. No issues for me.

[CaptainJack]

3 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

This is the part that worries me. To be 70, have to pay huge premiums and have no real cover for priors. How can someone planning 30 years of life know they can cover this. I doubt that not many put this requirement into their retirement plans and once locked into Thailand, understand later that they made a mistake.

Replied: 28 minutes ago

I hear you.  Everyone I know, even those with plenty of money and those just getting by are waiting to see if they goes through with their plan to tie medical insurance to retirement Visas. 

 

They got it all ready with the draft proposal written and signed off by all the Thai key players.   I think they are going to do it.  They don't want us here, else none of what has gone down would have happened.   Sorry bro.  I said scr*w it and went home while I still was able. 

 

CJ

 

PS. I hope for all that have lives, family and Thailand is home for them this rollercoaster ride is about over.  Nobody needs this c*rap in their retirement years. 

 

https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4000318/thailand-health-insurance-mandatory-expats

[mokwit]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No your extension seasoning requirements have changed.  You now have to keep a few more dollars in the bank for a few more days. 

A few more months not days and it is a few more thousand dollars. Permanaet tie up of 400k is not "seasoning". Best not to comment if you have no idea what you are talking about, no?

Edited April 22, 2019 by mokwit

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, CaptainJack said:

Replied: 28 minutes ago

I hear you.  Everyone I know, even those with plenty of money and those just getting by are waiting to see if they goes through with their plan to tie medical insurance to retirement Visas. 

 

They got it all ready with the draft proposal written and signed off by all the Thai key players.   I think they are going to do it.  They don't want us here, else none of what has gone down would have happened.   Sorry bro.  I said scr*w it and went home while I still was able. 

 

CJ

 

PS. I hope for all that have lives, family and Thailand is home for them this rollercoaster ride is about over.  Nobody needs this c*rap in their retirement years. 

 

https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4000318/thailand-health-insurance-mandatory-expats

I thought you went home because you were afraid they would throw you in jail for a fake visa purchased through an agent?  Do I have the wrong Jack?

 

PS The big change was 4 embassies and not Thai Immigration.  Income method has not changed nor has the O-A visa.  

Edited April 22, 2019 by marcusarelus

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

A few more months not days and it is a few more thousand dollars. Best not to comment if you have no idea what you are talking about, no?

A few days, 90.  A few dollars 12k.  That's what I said. 

[GalaxyMan]

Of course. The only people impacted by the changes are the economically marginal expats who can't afford to be here. Anyone who can afford it, this is still the best place on the planet.

[CMoldie]

I would never recommend anywhere to anybody else as a place to retire to. That's a decision they have to make by themselves and, if they can't do that, they should stay at home.

[Thaidream]

Yes- the issue of medical coverage will cause more problems for many people- the Thai Companies will cover with basic insurance  up yo any age but when one looks at the coverage and amount of premium it is completely ridiculous.  There is already a mandatory coverage needed when one applies for the O-X Visa but the requirements are that it must be a Thai Insurance Company.  How about people that have their own coverage and pay for it. How about retired military and those on VA Disability- they have their own coverage.

Why not offer long stay people in Thailand a buy in to the Thai Social Security system- we pay a fair monthly premium and can use the same medical providers Thais use. The shores up the Thai system and provides the needed coverage.

[CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

I thought you went home because you were afraid they would throw you in jail for a fake visa purchased through an agent?  Do I have the wrong Jack?

You got the right Jack. I went home to the USA because of a visa issue, which most everyone that knows me understands. I am one of those that thought I wanted to live in Thailand.  It was not thought out, I wasted a lot of money and way to much emotional grief.  And please,  don't hold back. Yes, I am one dump*ss to have finished 3 months of travel and work in SE Asia, and just decide,  "Hey! I'll just retire here".  Stupid, stupid and more stupid. 

 

I like to travel, love the people,  but I am not cut out for the expatriate life, whether Thailand or anywhere else. I'm being straight up and honest.  I made a mistake. 

 

I'm back home, bought a new car, got a nice apartment and will not come back to or through Thailand until the stupid visa stuff is behind me, which is in October.  There were many reasons I should have never even moved to Thailand at 66 years old.  

 

I freely admit my mistakes and the only reason I am still involved with Thailand is because of my volunteer work and travel in SE Asia.  I'll be back to my old routine next year. Fly to Bangkok,  spend 3 or 4 nights at the Novotel in Silom and then fly on to my final destination.   Or  I may change that, and go through a different hub airport if I keep reading about immigration at Bkk being a problem.  If I can't even transit without worry, I'll not even come through Bkk. Yep! That's me on the motorcycle.....

[brokenbone]

no, i would advocate a place with visum guarantee,

i'm too done with visa hassle, i  want a predictable future,

i'm stuck here cause its painful to get up but i advice

anyone looking at alternative places for the last years

of life to look for safety in residency before looking at anything else

[VBF]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

There is still many things about Thailand that are great= but I would not recommend that anyone retire here unless they were very wealthy- large  monthly income stream plus  at least one million US Dollars/Pounds in a bank (not a Thai Bank) 

 

The real problem in Thailand is the chaotic Immigration system that operates.  The actual Visa structure has a visa type for  a variety of people who may want to stay in Thailand.  The  requirements for the O-A; O-X and O Visa are clearly spelled out at the Embassies in one's home country.  You give the Embassy the documentation and the Visa is issued.

 

The problem comes in when one needs to get their extension of stay after the initial  permission to stay expires.  The O X Visa  gives an applicant 5 years of Visa but the requirements are onerous-  3 Million Baht in a Thai Bank plus  Health Insurance can only be bought from a Thai provider.  One still has to report to Immigration each year to make sure the requirements are still being met-  Bank Book; Bank Letter plus letter from Thai Insurance Company.  If you fail to keep the requirements up to date- your visa becomes void  but if you meet the requirements of the  extension based upon marriage or the normal retirement scheme- you can change to that but that requires another set of documentation.

Then there is the issue of Health Insurance- why would a retiree want to purchase health insurance from the list of Thai companies which provide  poor coverage at high prices.

 

Many people have their own Health Insurance from their country of Origin. Some of us have Worldwide Healthcare under the  US Veterans Admin or Retired Military Tricare.   Others cannot purchase healthcare due to not being covered.  The Malaysia Long stay program allows  a waiver on Health care if it cannot be found.

 

Can you as a retiree imagine walking into  CM Immigration; Phuket; CW; Jomtien etc etc and expecting that you will get the same treatment with the same requirements at each Immigration Office. We know it isn't happening but a new retiree to Thailand would have the expectation that each office operate the same.

 

Instead of getting better- we see constant reports of IO's not understanding their own regulations and requirements; asking for documents that are not spelled out in the Immigration Act; refusing applications  that have the proper paperwork but the IO doesn't want to accept it.

 

Those of us who have been here  for several years manage to muddle through  each year but with the new changes and not knowing if our own application will need more documentation- it has become stressful   I just can't imagine a newly retired person who has worked hard for decades- wanting to go through some of this nonsense when there are so many other destinations that do not have this type of bureaucracy

 

When a person retires- they want to enjoy the rest of their life- not be a prisoner to an Immigration system in which one has to track their income steam each month; make sure that bank book or credit advice is up to date; make sure you don't go one baht under 800K for a certain period; make sure you report to Immigration on time every 3 months or at another time to check you adherence to money in the bank; watch the calendar to top your money up again. 

So- to answer the question- I would recommend someone retire in another country more friendly to retirement.  Unfortunately- It is not Thailand.

Best and most logical post so far  @Thaidream....???? IMO, of course. 

 

Tying up 800,000 Baht for however long would be annoying and worrying but, in my case, not impossible. What if that increases???

 

But it's the last paragraph "When a person retires- ......" which is most certainly the thing that has prevented me from making the move, which until a few years ago, I had planned to do. I'm 64 now and well able to ride these storms of uncertainty but in 5, 10 years and likely to be on my own...who knows?

Edited April 22, 2019 by VBF

[CaptainJack]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Yes- the issue of medical coverage will cause more problems for many people- the Thai Companies will cover with basic insurance  up yo any age but when one looks at the coverage and amount of premium it is completely ridiculous.  There is already a mandatory coverage needed when one applies for the O-X Visa but the requirements are that it must be a Thai Insurance Company.  How about people that have their own coverage and pay for it. How about retired military and those on VA Disability- they have their own coverage.

Why not offer long stay people in Thailand a buy in to the Thai Social Security system- we pay a fair monthly premium and can use the same medical providers Thais use. The shores up the Thai system and provides the needed coverage.

Thaidream,

Regular VA medical is not available outside the USA.   The FMP is only available to veterans with a service connected disability.   It is a highly restrictive program and unless the hospital and/or physician accepts it, it is a pay out of pocket and file for reimbursement. 

 

The catch is the coverage is limited to the actual existing service connected disability. 

 

This is how the VA works for disabled veterans living in foreign countries. 

 

Tri Care is a separate and totally different program for military retirees. 

 

Here is information that explains the FMP program.  It is important to understand, FMP is not medical insurance. 

 

https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/docs/pubfiles/factsheets/FactSheet_04-01.pdf

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by CaptainJack
Additional information

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, CaptainJack said:

Thaidream,

Regular VA medical is not available outside the USA.   The FMP is only available to veterans with a service connected disability.   It is a highly restrictive program and unless the hospital and/or physician accepts it, it is a pay out of pocket and file for reimbursement. 

 

The catch is the coverage is limited to the actual existing service connected disability. 

 

This is how the VA works for disabled veterans living in foreign countries. 

 

Tri Care is a separate and totally different program for military retirees. 

 

Here is information that explains the FMP program.

 

https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/docs/pubfiles/factsheets/FactSheet_04-01.pdf

 

 

There are Thai hospitals that direct bill FMP.  VA will also accept information from a Thai doctor and hospital to qualify for a disability.  Check with your local Thai VFW or JUSMAG Bangkok for reliable and accurate information.  VA will also issue you letters of insurance coverage. 

[CaptainJack]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

There are Thai hospitals that direct bill FMP.  VA will also accept information from a Thai doctor and hospital to qualify for a disability.  Check with your local Thai VFW or JUSMAG Bangkok for reliable and accurate information.  VA will also issue you letters of insurance coverage. 

Thank you! Finally someone provided real information that can help others.  Thank you sir!

Edited April 22, 2019 by CaptainJack
Better wording.

[marcusarelus]

24 minutes ago, VBF said:

Best and most logical post so far  @Thaidream....???? IMO, of course. 

 

Tying up 800,000 Baht for however long would be annoying and worrying but, in my case, not impossible. What if that increases???

 

But it's the last paragraph "When a person retires- ......" which is most certainly the thing that has prevented me from making the move, which until a few years ago, I had planned to do. I'm 64 now and well able to ride these storms of uncertainty but in 5, 10 years and likely to be on my own...who knows?

You might want to check the price of caregivers in the USA or UK vs Thailand.  It's like one week equals one month last time I looked.  We all have different sources and contacts so best do it yourself. 

[moe666]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I would suggest if you can really afford to commit to Thailand's lack of residence security going forward for potentially decades, then you can also afford a very high end retirement destination such as New Zealand. Certainly Spain, Portugal, Panama City, Uruguay levels too. So my point in saying that is that in my view the vast majority of retirees in Thailand up till now are largely motivated by the bang for the baht factor, geographical arbitrage as it were. Given the trend in immigration policies here I see the future of this place only for the quite wealthy retiree. I think most of such very wealthy retirees would be better off elsewhere, but if they really really love Thailand in an exclusive way, then of course it would be Thailand. 

I would be so out of sorts in every country you mention, my question is why. I have been planning on retirement in Thailand since about 2000. When I finally made the move after retirement best move I have ever made. I did my research understood the rules, yes I understand 90 day reporting. Boys there are some things you get over and 90 day reports are one of them. I like it here there is more than enough things for me to do, when I chose to do them. Yes I would recommend Thailand for retirement to people who can meet the finicial requirements with enough left over to cover there other cost. I would not recommend Thailand to anyone who is not mature and has a childish out look on life, this includes people who do not deal with change very well. I had a good friend ask me about retirement here I told him you do not have enough money or income come and visit as a tourist and that is what he does.

[VBF]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You might want to check the price of caregivers in the USA or UK vs Thailand.  It's like one week equals one month last time I looked.  We all have different sources and contacts so best do it yourself. 

Agreed on the difference - massive!

BUT in UK I have no doubts about my rights to live here for ever without jumping through (as yet unknown) hoops - on that subject it's the uncertainty that concerns me.

PLUS in UK if I go broke (ie my savings drop below a certain level) the Social Services are required to help me, albeit minimally. NO...it's NOT ideal but at some stage choices and decisions have to be made, do they not?

 

One size definitely does not fit all in this scenario.

[CaptainJack]

Per marcusarus, the Thai VFW is a good contact for disabled veterans to contact regarding the VA FMP. I looked up the website for those who need information. 

 

Good luck...

 

https://sites.google.com/view/vfw9951bangkok/home