Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[attrayant]

5 hours ago, peterrabbit said:

If the Government really wanted to solve this problem why don't they just levy a 1000b charge when renewing the visa/extensions and put that money directly into the health system?

 

38,000,000 x 1,000 = 38,000,000,000 baht or 10 times what they say they are losing from foreigners not paying.

 

While this seems like an appealing idea, more foreigners would simply use this as an excuse to skip payment of hospital bills.  I can see somebody going in for heart surgery and then when he gets the bill for 500 thousand, screams "WHAT? I already paid my 1000 baht at immigration!"

 

 

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

For O-A visa there is no requirement to hold Thai baht in a Thai bank.

 

6 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

No requirement for money in a Thai bank account ?

Correct.

[sandyf]

50 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

I been in several Thai hospitals and i never noticed any opportunity for NOT paying my hospital bill.

These numbers seem highly disputable.

 

That depends on the system they use, some hospitals retain your ID until you have seen the cashier. I go to Bang Saen hospital regularly and never need to show ID, just the appointment card, you could easily walk away after seeing the doctor but would probably have to leave the country. They do not issue medication until after the cashier.

I would agree the numbers are disputable, I have not shown my passport at a hospital since I got the pink card several years ago and I do not believe the hospitals are into visa checks. Numbers appear to made up for justification.

I have no doubt there are unpaid bills but the bulk I suspect are one time visitors or expats ready to go home rather than the average expat

[AAArdvark]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal,” she said.

OK, so we know you don't extend an OA visa.  For now I will assume that the 2nd year gained by exiting and reentering LOS would remain in effect.  Then comes the end of the 2nd year extension of stay where it seems there will be a check for insurance. So, I guess I could remain a burden on the Thai medical system for nearly a full 2 years.

Since I have determined that I am not getting any younger, I doubt that I will wait until that 2nd year ends.

[Destiny1990]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That depends on the system they use, some hospitals retain your ID until you have seen the cashier. I go to Bang Saen hospital regularly and never need to show ID, just the appointment card, you could easily walk away after seeing the doctor but would probably have to leave the country. They do not issue medication until after the cashier.

I would agree the numbers are disputable, I have not shown my passport at a hospital since I got the pink card several years ago and I do not believe the hospitals are into visa checks. Numbers appear to made up for justification.

I have no doubt there are unpaid bills but the bulk I suspect are one time visitors or expats ready to go home rather than the average expat

I think most unpaid bills came from tourist holiday makers.Buy indeed the numbers are inconsistent.

Tourist rents motorcycle gets smashed by an speeding mini van but he runs of.. Tourist one month in ICU that kinda stuff..

Personal accident insurance up on arrival for tourist is better plan.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Destiny1990

[Golden Triangle]

I have a strong feeling that this subject will top the bill in Roosters Sunday Sermon this weekend, unless he's won a World Scrabble Championship of course ???? 

[Naamblar2014]

38 million non oa visa holders.  More than half the country is now made up of foreigners ????

 

someone else quoted the census numbers of total foreigners as 2.58 million.  That's a bit more realistic,  and it may even be possible for that number to make 3.42 million hospital visits. However, I seriously doubt 680,000 foreigners on non oa  visas didn't pay a roughly 480 baht bill.  Sounds ridiculous.

Anyway fed up trying to rationalise this issue because as usual,  instead of going after the non payers just penalise the over 50's. All 38 million of us... Just rubbish.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

37 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

I have a foreign insurance policy that covers way more than the requirements.  However, in the fine print it only has emergency coverage here.  I wonder if I could get away with that.

 

I think, we have no idea as yet what kind of approval process they're going to have for deciding what policies do and don't meet their requirements, and who's going to do that.

 

Is it going to be MFA at the application point?  Immigration in Thailand?  Are they going to go down the road of asking country Embassies to certify?  It could be a minefield....

 

[geisha]

So how about a letter to The Nation, or Bangkok Post inquiring about these numbers ? 

[Pattaya46]

Why doesn't ThaiVisa correct the figures they wrote in their OP? 

The figures about O-A in TheNation are different and far more realistic :

 

2018

• Number of foreign visitors: 38 million
• Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million
• Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000
• Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950
• Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30369468

Edited May 16, 2019 by Pattaya46

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why doesn't ThaiVisa correct the figures they wrote in their OP? 

The figures about O-A in TheNation are different and far more realistic :

 

2018

• Number of foreign visitors: 38 million
• Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million
• Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000
• Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950
• Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30369468

 

It's still B-S... because...

 

The Nation has now changed their online website and data for at least the third time....and still... the numbers above do NOT show the amount of unpaid debt associated with O-A visa holders, who are the subject of the proposal.

 

As best as I can tell from the way they present the data, everything else except the line about number of O-A visa holders is probably related to ALL FOREIGNERS in Thailand, not just the tiny O-A segment.

 

It does NOT say -- Outstanding debt by O-A visa holders: Bt305 million

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[pagallim]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Its a bit off topic but here is a statement copied from this page https://www.expatassure.com/vietnam/

 

Expatriates must contribute to the compulsory health insurance, but as will be explained in the following paragraph, this is often not enough and many expatriates choose to subscribe to a private medical insurance in Vietnam.

I believe that "Expatriates must contribute to the compulsory health insurance" is in the context of individuals actually working in Vietnam, in the same way that Expats in Thailand pay SS contributions.   The link is advertising blurb for health insurance so has to be taken in that context.

[jollyhangmon]

2 hours ago, zydeco said:

Don't give a damn about Germany and its "special" conditions.

 

... not fair mate and no special conditions as that's standard Social Security in most parts of EU these days.

Ze German just pointed out he's basically about to get shafted in stereo once the clowns here get their scam up & running because he's already & still paying in back home (and plenty) if he's drawing a pension or any other (official) income ...

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by jollyhangmon

[cracker1]

17 hours ago, edwinchester said:

From the op.

 

"Last year, foreigners incurred Bt305 million in unpaid medical bills.

 

Huge unpaid bills

 

For instance, foreigners made 3.42 million medical visits last year, and did not pay for 680,000 of them....."

 

So 680,000 thousand foreigners incurred hospital debts of 305,000,000 bht last year.

That is the sum of less than 450 bht each!!!!!!!

<deleted> just tax each visitor 500 bht and your still in profit.

That's an excellent idea !

[Tropposurfer]

17 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

If all these millions of OA visa holders are skipping their hospital bills then why don’t they chase em up !!

After all , what with the TM 30 and 90 days reporting they are easily tracked down

watch this space pal they will

[pagallim]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

Not so sure, see this from the Phuket News..............It includes those applying to "renew" their one year permits to stay. Surely this refers to the retirement extensions we renew every year?

 

“The insurance policy must provide up to B40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment and up to B400,000 for inpatient treatment during their stay in the Kingdom of Thailand,” Dr Nutthawut said.

 

The requirement applies to all new applicants for one-year non-immigrant O-A visas, and for those applying to “renew” their one-year permits-to-stay, he said.

www.thephuketnews.com/cabinet-approves-mandatory-health-insurance-for-long-stay-visas-71424.php#kimf7zlHsmOva8Uu.97  

 

However, the same news source, which is explicit in the non inclusion of Non-Imm O extensions (retirement, marriage, dependents etc).

 

UPDATE: Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn Kumthieng confirmed to The Phuket News today (May 14) that he has been informed of the new requirement but that he has yet to receive an order for his office to start applying it when processing applications for one-year Non-Immigrant O-A permits-to-stay.

Col Kathathorn also confirmed that the new insusrance requirement applies only to Non-Immigrant O-A "retirement" visas.

[Andrew Dwyer]

watch this space pal they will

Actually I don’t think they will.
As the actual number of OA holders has dropped from 32 million to 80 thousand and some loose change !
Plus of course we all know ( more pure speculation from me I’m afraid [emoji47] ) that the hospital absconders were mainly tourists falling off their mc’s or foreigners from nearby Asian countries.

[KKr]

7 hours ago, rabas said:

Doubt they cover any pre-existing parts of your body.

pre-existing conditions ?
excluded in the widest terms.
In the offer that I received I was told to present a MRI scan concerning a successful operation of about 25 years ago, before that "risk" would be considered at all, and moreover a joint that had received treatment for a slightly damaged ligament a year before was excluded.

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, pagallim said:

UPDATE: Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn Kumthieng () when processing applications for one-year Non-Immigrant O-A permits-to-stay.

Col Kathathorn also confirmed that the new insusrance requirement applies only to Non-Immigrant O-A "retirement" visas.

Better but still unclear.

What about those on Retirement Extensions who never got a Non O-A visa? 

[eddysmit]

Strange concocted numbers, sounds like they were done by a PR firm for future reasons, apart from the few younger westerners being stretchered into hospitals unconscious when they come to a cropper riding a souped-up very powerful motorbike in areas like Pattaya, and even then what I have heard from people involved is the hospital will most of the time ask for some sort of proof of payment before proceeding, when ninety-nine percent of foreigners visit a hospital, dentist, hotel the normal procedure is the first thing asked for is your passport, which is immediately copied, treatment for my visits have normally been settled after the treatment and before leaving, for my last visit, with a Thai signing as guarantor, they asked for a deposit before carrying out the small op. 

[eddysmit]

11 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Actually I don’t think they will.
As the actual number of OA holders has dropped from 32 million to 80 thousand and some loose change !
Plus of course we all know ( more pure speculation from me I’m afraid ) that the hospital absconders were mainly tourists falling off their mc’s or foreigners from nearby Asian countries.

I would think you 'hit the nail on the head' with the bulk of the numbers being from neighboring countries.

[pagallim]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Better but still unclear.

What about those on Retirement Extensions who never got a Non O-A visa? 

Not quite sure what you mean, but a Non-Imm O-A can't be extended.   It expires and a new O-A is applied for (means leaving the country of course).   The retirement/marriage/dependent 12 month extensions are from a Non-Imm O visa.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by pagallim

[Andrew Dwyer]

Not quite sure what you mean, but a Non-Imm O-A can't be extended.   It expires and a new O-A is applied for (means leaving the country of course).   The retirement/marriage/dependent 12 month extensions are from a Non-Imm O visa.

Not correct I’m afraid !!

The OA can give up to 2 years stay , 1st year multi entry visa, 2nd year permission to stay which can then be extended indefinitely .

[Mango Bob]

4 minutes ago, pagallim said:

Not quite sure what you mean, but a Non-Imm O-A can't be extended.   It expires and a new O-A is applied for (means leaving the country of course).   The retirement/marriage/dependent 12 month extensions are from a Non-Imm O visa.

That funny.  I got a Non O-A in New York 13 years ago and have extended it every year since then.

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, pagallim said:

Not quite sure what you mean, but a Non-Imm O-A can't be extended. 

Right, but read what I quoted above:

28 minutes ago, pagallim said:

PDATE: Phuket Immigration Chief () confirmed (...) when processing applications for one-year Non-Immigrant O-A permits-to-stay.

"permit to stay" is Extension. So ??

Edited May 16, 2019 by Pattaya46

[pagallim]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Not correct I’m afraid !!

The OA can give up to 2 years stay , 1st year multi entry visa, 2nd year permission to stay which can then be extended indefinitely .

Indeed, must admit I wasn't aware of that.   I thought that it just expired and required a new visa, not extension.   This is the MFA edict:

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

[skorts]

You can extend a Non-Imm O-A Visa. It works in exactly the same way as extending a Non-Imm O Visa. I have extended my original Non-Imm O-A for the last 4 years. I do not have a Non-Imm O Visa. 

If you want a new O-A Visa that is a different matter and as you say cannot be done in Thailand. 

 

[tabarin]

So you guys telling me that there is some secret Pattaya island with 30+ million foreigners living on it that I still don't know about after 7 years? Because I never seen that many foreigners elsewhere in Thailand. If you would count 1 million for Bangkok, 1 million for Phuket, 1 million for Pattaya, 500K for other bigger cities and 10K for the rest, you would still not even get anywhere near these numbers.

Anyway, so now there is a 800K requirement / lock on money aside of forcefully having to find a unwished or expensive insurance? 
It is that I am still under 30 so my pension days are far away but sure as hell I would not retire here with less than 2500USD monthly otherwise.
Way better places to go in that case, it might start to get busy in the south of Europe over a decade of time.

Edited May 16, 2019 by tabarin

[expat1010]

Aside from the fact, that their facts seem out of whack. I wonder if they will drop the requirement for 800,000 in the bank for those who have the mandatory health insurance? Since that was one of the main justifications for the 800k in the first place.Me thinks they no longer want western retirees taking up residence in Thailand.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[poohy]

9 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

Why is everyone making a big issue of this?   They want us to have insurance doesn't matter what they say here, and what cost they make up. you have to have it.  Why not talk about the type of policies available.

Or a better idea 

someone post a real insurance certificate that we can all copy / forge

 

That was My Thai mate in Bangkok immediate suggestion

 

We have to learn to think like them

Edited May 16, 2019 by poohy