Poll -- Record your "Long Stay" health insurance requirement predictions

[tingtongtourist]

15 minutes ago, simon43 said:

You're in cloud-cuckoo land!  There won't be any international embarrassment whatsoever.  This is all about 'encouraging' expats to go live elsewhere.  The country is under the thumb of the Chinese and you hardly see the Chinese government inviting old 'farang' to come and retire in China.

 

Everyone should have a plan B (or C or...).  The Thai people may love westerners, but the government does not.

I think you think to much!

Its like when BJ said they did catch 500 farangs but you go to look at the picture and its all dark faces, Lao, Burmese and the like.

 

Think about this, how many white faces would they really let walk from a hospital without paying?

 

Id say the ones not paying hospital bills are Lao, Burma etc

like construction type workers having accidents on the job or others having accidents on bikes or whatever.

 

None of them would have money so what they do? cant get blood out of the stone.

 

Id say with the broad brush of what they know and call a "foriegner" many people are wrongly assuming its just white westerners when the opposite is more likely.

 

wait soon for an announcement they will go ahead with insurance requirement but only on a few nationalities..like countries bordering Thailand.

[onera1961]

10 minutes ago, simon43 said:

My insurance company already provided me with projections for the cost when I'm 70 and 80 - at 80 years old I would be paying about 100,000 baht each year, regardless of whether I'm living in Thailand or not.  That's a necessary expense for me and I've budgeted for it.

Can you please tell us what insurance  is that?

[onera1961]

45 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I don't think that this requirement will be applied to short-term tourists, because it would probably reduce the number of foreign tourists who visit the country and spend money, (and that includes all the Chinese tourists).

If they increase the airport tax by 400 baht, it can cover all short time tourists. Short time tourist insurance is very low, 200-400 baht for 7-14 days. 

[simon43]

Think about this, how many white faces would they really let walk from a hospital without paying?

 

IMHO, this is nothing to do with white faces skipping on their hospital bills.  It's simply another way to 'tighten the screws' on unwanted foreigners, to encourage them to leave.

 

If some of them decide to stay and cough up the extortionate insurance fees, then that's a financial bonus.

 

@onera1961, my insurer is Davidshield.  I recently changed from Healthcare International (HCI) to obtain cover with a zero % excess and copay.

[NoshowJones]

49 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I ticked them all, because I think mandatory health insurance will be required for ALL expats living in Thailand on any type of one-year or multiple-90 day visas.

 

I don't think that this requirement will be applied to short-term tourists, because it would probably reduce the number of foreign tourists who visit the country and spend money, (and that includes all the Chinese tourists).

 

But it's very clear that the authorities care not one jot about long-stay expats.  We're not encouraged to come here and we're not welcome here.  If imposition of a mandatory health insurance policy causes some/many of those expats to leave, then it's not of concern to the authorities.  Take it or leave it.

 

 

Definitely agree with your last paragraph, but your first one?? It would affect many bigwig income streams, so that would rule it out.

[NoshowJones]

15 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I think you think to much!

Its like when BJ said they did catch 500 farangs but you go to look at the picture and its all dark faces, Lao, Burmese and the like.

 

Think about this, how many white faces would they really let walk from a hospital without paying?

 

Id say the ones not paying hospital bills are Lao, Burma etc

like construction type workers having accidents on the job or others having accidents on bikes or whatever.

 

None of them would have money so what they do? cant get blood out of the stone.

 

Id say with the broad brush of what they know and call a "foriegner" many people are wrongly assuming its just white westerners when the opposite is more likely.

 

wait soon for an announcement they will go ahead with insurance requirement but only on a few nationalities..like countries bordering Thailand.

I think there is a lot of truth in this post.

[mania]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

Hard to sell "hard" assets in a hurry for a fair price. Especially not, if an entire Thai-Family was originally meant to be a firm part of the "asset-equation" in Thailand.

 

Yes that is why I said.........." decide what they want to do about it in the future. "

Because as you said selling in a hurry is a sure way to lose a few $$$

 

We decided in 2016 we saw enough of the Junta direction to think they were not going to give back power.

A few years later we feel we made the right choice.

 

But at the time we had a Condo, a business, Truck, Scooter etc to sell

Looking back now I see we can buy the condo back for less than we sold

 

I do not know if that is all due to folks selling though as Thailand in general really overbuilt

But everything we sold we did get a fair price & actually a good profit on the condo as we originally bought it in 2004

 

Family wise just my Thai wife & I left

She had already obtained citizenship in our home country so that made it easier

 

I do feel for those who have Thai wife & kids without foreign passports or having to even deal with getting them visa's etc.

Not an easy task & if I was in that position I probably would have just said thats that we make it work in Thailand

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

2 hours ago, swissie said:

All of the above. Definitely.

Foreward looking people would also be interested in how other countries handle this subject. Colombia, for example. Nevermind Thailand. Predictable.

I agree.

[KittenKong]

58 minutes ago, simon43 said:

But it's very clear that the authorities care not one jot about long-stay expats.  We're not encouraged to come here and we're not welcome here.

If the authorities didn't want us here they would simply withdraw all long-term visas and extensions. They have not done this nor has there been any sign of them wanting to do this.

 

What they are doing is weeding out people who appear to be working under the radar or who have little or no visible means of support. They are being selective.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This topic is a MULTIPLE CHOICE poll for people to record their predictions. 

In other words, choose either one choice or as many as you like.

What prize does the winner get?

[mania]

57 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Mandatory insurance isn't the way to go, option of money in the bank for those self insurers.

 

For those with no family ties here its not so bad if it comes in as i would switch to spending less time here and stay on tourist visas. It might make life more interesting going to 2 or more countries every year

 

 

I do actually think for the Non Imm extensions done in Thailand that is what the govt has in mind. Hence the locked up full time 400k

they now require

 

The tricky part will be when an expat needs to use it for medical ...will it then cancel the visa extension for next year?

Or is the 400k strictly going to be locked up so Thailand's hospitals can seize it if a medical bill goes unpaid?

 

For my wife & I we do as you also suggest & only live in Thailand 3 months a year now....We actually have grown to really appreciate it.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by mania

[Destiny1990]

14 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

If the authorities didn't want us here they would simply withdraw all long-term visas and extensions. They have not done this nor has there been any sign of them wanting to do this.

 

What they are doing is weeding out people who appear to be working under the radar or who have little or no visible means of support. They are being selective.

Seems they doing it more gently so step by step.

Maybe by their next step it will smoke or weeding  you out too..

Edited May 18, 2019 by Destiny1990

[Pattaya46]

20 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Its like when BJ said they did catch 500 farangs but you go to look at the picture and its all dark faces, Lao, Burmese and the like.

Big Joke usually didn't use the word Farangs but the word Foreigners. When the number of Farangs was given it was a small number.

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Seems they doing it more gently so step by step.

Maybe by their next step it will smoke or weeding  you out too..

What would be the point of doing it step by step? If they wanted me (or anyone else like me) gone they would only have to stop issuing retirement extensions altogether. Clearly they dont want to do that.

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Big Joke usually didn't use the word Farangs but the word Foreigners. When the number of Farangs was given it was a small number.

Looks like you have answered the wrong post.????

[Destiny1990]

7 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

What would be the point of doing it step by step? If they wanted me (or anyone else like me) gone they would only have to stop issuing retirement extensions altogether. Clearly they dont want to do that.

Its Thai-style.. 

They clearly making it harder and more difficult each time so  would you know where the end of that process is? Even you could be less desirable as what you thinking. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Destiny1990

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, AYJAYDEE said:

lol! the immigration line ups would extend to saraburi!

 

The onus would probably be on airlines to ensure befor issuing tickets

[KittenKong]

4 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

They clearly making it harder and more difficult each time so  would you know where the end of that process is?

My way of getting my extension has not changed for many years and is still completely valid. So I dont see that it's getting harder at all. On the contrary, the actual process has become much quicker over the years.

[Destiny1990]

5 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

My way of getting my extension has not changed for many years and is still completely valid. So I dont see that it's getting harder at all. On the contrary, the actual process has become much quicker over the years.

You are now even contradicting yourself with your earlier posts.

[Gecko123]

If Thailand's gonna invite people to come live here at age 50 and then kick them out when they're 70, they ought to stop calling it a "retirement visa" and start calling it a "mid-life crisis" visa.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I found hitting the magic age of 70 increased my policy fees, by 75% and have no pre existing conditions. Never made a claim.

 

 

their way of saying thank you....

[legend49]

4 hours ago, mania said:

I think it is a pretty easy assumption that all forms will eventually require medical insurance.

 

Folks now without would do well to decide what they want to do about it in the future.

 

Meaning find suitable insurance now or start planning an exit

Especially if one has hard assets in Thailand to sell

 

Go and Google Self Insured and learn there is more to insurance. over 70% of global companies practice this. Plan their risk and costs instead of feeding insurance pockets needlessly.

[kingstonkid]

I must admit I am a little confused. I deal with 2 hospitals and both before anything is done want to see my credit card.  i imagine there re many people here that donot have such a thing and that can be a problem.

 

One other suggestion might be to charge EVERYONE that comes in on a long stay visa to pay an annual fee a little higher maybe than the average Thai and give them the ability to deal with the Thai government hospitals.

[Knee Jerk Reaction]

Until all insurance companies are required to pay the policy holder's costs up front the hospitals will, in many cases, still end up with unpaid bills. This is especially the case in emergencies when the hospital can't wait for a deposit to be paid before beginning treatment. An affordable scheme underwritten by government would be the only fair solution for both the hospitals and settled expats.

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

You're in cloud-cuckoo land!  There won't be any international embarrassment whatsoever.  This is all about 'encouraging' expats to go live elsewhere.  The country is under the thumb of the Chinese and you hardly see the Chinese government inviting old 'farang' to come and retire in China.

 

Everyone should have a plan B (or C or...).  The Thai people may love westerners, but the government does not.

You're probably right about the lack of response from the international community, especially when you consider that many countries in the West are experiencing paroxysms of anti-immigration sentiment themselves and are hardly in a position to morally lecture others.

 

I am clueless about the degree of Chinese influence in the Thai government, but there's no question that Prayut's government is extremely paternalistic, moralistic, and traditionalist. Prayut has expressed embarrassment about Thailand's image as the world's sex capital, and apparently sees foreign men who settle here as a residual bi-product of that culture, notwithstanding the fact that many have contributed greatly to the social fabric and economy by marrying and forming households.

 

But I do believe that there's going to be blowback from rural Thai communities who benefit from the expat community. Maybe not in the form of street protests, but in the form of general discontent and unrest. I do not think it is far-fetched to predict that some families with a foreign head-of-household will be broken up because of the newly imposed requirements. In some cases a foreigner, who otherwise was adequately providing for his family, will neither be able to afford to meet the new requirements in Thailand or afford to repatriate with their Thai family back to their home country. He may have little choice other than to repatriate by himself. There have been a few posts recently on TVF which suggest that this is a very real possibility.

 

Additionally, the higher bank deposit financial requirement along with just the rumor that medical insurance will be required, is going to quite naturally cause many people to alter their consumption patterns (i.e., cut back), which is going to have a negative impact on those communities. Cutting consumption during times of uncertainty is a basic economic principle which the government doesn't seem to have factored into their calculus.

 

Finally, the government's crackdown on and stigmatization of the sex industry (irrespective of how one feel's about this from a moral or sociological standpoint) from a purely economic perspective, has effectively shut down a significant pathway out of poverty for many Thai women, and this, too, is going to put socio-economic pressure on rural communities.

 

Because of all this: the possibilities that families will be abandoned,  consumer spending will drop, and a pathway out of rural poverty has been removed (without many viable alternatives being provided in its place), the blowback from these policies is likely to come from rural Thailand. Policies which the government saw as mainly impacting foreigners may end up having unintended consequences on Thais which the government will be forced to address.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Gecko123

[userabcd]

Interesting about visa categories listed on the Thai Embassy website in the UK.

 

"O"  
To visit Thai spouse, children, parents, voluntary job, retirement (with State Pension)
"O-A"
For applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working. 
"O-X"
For applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working, and who are nationals of (1) Japan (2) Australia (3) Denmark (4) Finland (5) France (6) Germany (7) Italy (8) Netherlands (9) Norway (10) Sweden (11) Switzerland (12) United Kingdom (13) Canada (14) United States of America

 

Non-Immigrant Type O- A (Long Stay) 1 Year per entries/Multiple entries/ 1 year validity

 

The NON Imm Visa O-X is the only section on the embassy web site which requires a health insurance

Non-Immigrant Visa “O-X” (Long Stay) 5 Year per entries/Multiple entries

On 22 November 2016, the Cabinet of Thailand approved scheme which allows nationals from 14 countries to stay in Thailand for the maximum period of 10 years. In order to enjoy this new scheme, the applicants must apply for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-X” Visa at the Royal Thai Embassy /Royal Thai Consulate-General (when applying outside Thailand) or the Immigration Bureau (when applying in Thailand).

 

The purpose of this type of visa is to promote long stay for foreign traveler to Thailand. Nationals of 14 countries with the age of 50 years old or over can apply for a multiple-entry Non-O-X visa and stay in Kingdom for the maximum period of 10 years (5 years according to visa validity plus an extension for another 5 years). The visa fee is 10,000 baht (or local currency equivalent if applying outside Thailand).

 

In accordance with the Notification of the Ministry of Interior Re: Authorization for Certain Groups of Aliens to enter the Kingdom  on exceptional case on Long-Stay Purpose in accordance with the Cabinet Resolution, date 22 November B.E. 2599 (2016) ( effective from 11 August 2017), foreigners with the following qualification and supporting documents may apply for a multiple- entry Non-O-X visa:

 

Applicants’ qualifications

1. Age of 50 years old or over
2. Applicants must be passport holder or nationality of (1) Japan (2) Australia (3) Denmark (4) Finland (5) France (6) Germany (7) Italy (8) Netherlands (9) Norway (10) Sweden (11) Switzerland (12) United Kingdom (13) Canada (14) United States of America
3. Financial qualifications

• Applicants must have money deposited in Thai bank located in Thai bank located in Thailand with the amount of not less than 3 million Baht; or
• Applicants must have money deposited in Thai bank located in Thailand with the amount of not less than 1.8 million Baht and have income with the amount of not less than 1.2 million Baht per year. Once the applicants enter Thailand, they must have accumulated money deposited in Thai bank located in Thailand not less than 3 million Baht within 1 year.

The money in (a) and (b) must be kept in bank account at least 1 year before withdrawing and, within another next year, the money must be left in the account with the amount of not less than 1.5 million Baht and can only be spent in Thailand.

4. Applicants must have no forbidden diseases according to the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E 2535) which include Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Elephantiasis, drug addiction and third stage of Syphilis.
5. Applicants must have Thai medical insurance during their stay in Thailand (per the approval of the Office of Insurance Commission) and medical claims for outpatient must not be less than 40,000 Baht, for inpatient must not be less than 400,000 Baht.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by userabcd

[ThaiBunny]

6 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You're probably right about the lack of response from the international community, especially when you consider that many countries in the West are experiencing paroxysms of anti-immigration sentiment themselves and are hardly in a position to morally lecture others.

Especially as Malaysia has had an almost identical requirement for the past 10 years

[scubascuba3]

I'm 60 years old.  I pay 48,000 baht each year for $1.2 million of health cover. My scheme is for life, with no fee increases if I claim.  My insurance company already provided me with projections for the cost when I'm 70 and 80 - at 80 years old I would be paying about 100,000 baht each year, regardless of whether I'm living in Thailand or not.  That's a necessary expense for me and I've budgeted for it.
 

I recall you have David Shields. it currently quotes 115k annually for 70-74, in 14 years that will be nearer 200k after regular adjustments by them, or do you think it will stay at 115k? I can't tell if they even cover you after 74

[sfokevin]

These insurance policies are ticking actuarial time bombs designed to cull you out by pricing you out of the market...

 

If the Insurance Ministry was really interested in solving the problem and helping us they would mandate that the insurance companies would offer a 500k policy with a 100k deductible... The annual premium would be the same for all ages and no pre existing conditions... They would also require all policy holders to maintain a separate bank balance of 100k... My guess is that with a large pool of most of the 80k expatriates the annual premiums could be kept below a 50k year...

[simon43]

 I can't tell if they even cover you after 74

 

They cover you for life.  they cannot increase your individual annual premium, no matter how many times they pay out on any claims that you might make.  They can only increase your premium for everyone in the saqme age band.